supercat Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I am always interested in new bankswitching ideas. Please PM me with the details 1008583[/snapback] I've got another batch of PCBs for my 4A50 scheme, and I've also pulled out some of my code to try to figure out why the CC2 .bnk file doesn't seem to work right (once the CC2 works with it, that will make development more practical than having to burn flash chips at the office). I don't think anything as complex as 4A50 could fit in the Xilinx part with the other schemes, but since it fits in a 95C36XL it should fit in your chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 Forgive me if I've asked this, but do you connect the Xilinx JTAG pins to anything useful (like the microcontroller)? If so, would it be possible to reprogram it from the PC? I know it would be a fair bit slower than just loading a game into flash, but it would both mitigate the hazards of including newer software in the new units (since field bug fixes would be possible) and would also make it possible to support schemes which you presently cannot (since it would not be necessary to simultaneously support all the other schemes). With Verns help, I have designed a board that acts like this already. But its curretly not more than a prototype. The Krokodile does not follow this strategy. All it does is already on the chip. The CPLD is not reprogrammed. When I designed the Krokodile back in 2003, I didn't even know that this was possible ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 When I designed the Krokodile back in 2003, I didn't even know that this was possible ... 1008687[/snapback] What pins do you have on the microcontroller? I'm not positive, but I think the JTAG pins other than TRST are "don't care" when TRST is high. If that's the case, and if the micro can be reprogrammed in-circuit, then I would think it might not be too hard to modify the KC for auto-programming. Even if the micro can't be reprogrammed in circuit, you could probably sell an "easy mod kit" with a new micro since the original is socketed. BTW, what are those six-pin headers on the board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 I've got another batch of PCBs for my 4A50 scheme Yea, I am following your blog about that. The way you are writing RAM sounds promising, in case it really works. But as you might have noticed, the CPLD on the Krokodile is a 5V part which is not good for this kind of RAM writing, or ? The Krokodile itself will not change a lot in the near future. But I am working on a few other things that might be finished 10 years from now . One of the boards I am thinking of, might be able to support your way of RAM writing because a 3V part is used. Maybe I have enough free lines to interface all datalines .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 What pins do you have on the microcontroller? None of the JTAG pins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Yea, I am following your blog about that. The way you are writing RAM sounds promising, in case it really works. But as you might have noticed, the CPLD on the Krokodile is a 5V part which is not good for this kind of RAM writing, or ? Hmm... you may have a point there. There are some other ways a larger device (95C72) could achieve similar effects without relying upon bus capacitance, but they too would require hardware changes (e.g. putting 1K resistors in series with the data lines going to the CPLD; the CPLD would latch the RAM data during phi1 and output it during ph2 (keeping it output until the RAM write was complete). Even if you don't have the resistors, if your timebase is well enough in sync with the CPU, you may be able to reduce the "bus floating" time enough to get away with it. After all, the RAM can keep the bus driven until just before the start of phi2, and the CPU's data, if any, will be valid just after the start of phi2; if you release R/W at that point but keep /CE on the RAM, the chip should hold the data for the CPU. The Krokodile itself will not change a lot in the near future. But I am working on a few other things that might be finished 10 years from now . One of the boards I am thinking of, might be able to support your way of RAM writing because a 3V part is used. Maybe I have enough free lines to interface all datalines ....1008695[/snapback] If you'd like any information about how mine works, I'd be more than happy to help--I'd like to see it get used, and the more hardware supports it the more likely it would seem to reach critical mass. There are some projects that work okay with 3E, but there are a lot that need more banking versatility than 3E can provide. Something like my spinner demo worked pretty well in E7 and superbly in 4A50 (because the banking scheme includes features to facilitate such things) but would be very hard to do in 3E. It probably could be done, but only by filling up the last bank with data tables, thus making it difficult to use the spinner demo of a title screen for a worthwhile game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 What pins do you have on the microcontroller? None of the JTAG pins 1008696[/snapback] I know, but if most of the JTAG pins are don't-care when TRST is not asserted, I was thinking they could be doubled-up with something. It might also be possible to double up TRST with something if a jumper or switch were present to enable/disable it. Thus, in theory, adding six wires and a jumper to the board might allow for in-circuit programming of the CPLD--not an unreasonable mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) Thus, in theory, adding six wires and a jumper to the board might allow for in-circuit programming of the CPLD--not an unreasonable mod. But unfortunately there is not a single free pin on the microcontroller. Even if I found free pins for double usage I don't like how I would have to connect these wires to the controller and how this would become an entirely different device. I am using this method already for some prototypes, but I will not use it with the Krokodile. Also because I don't think it is very likely that 4A50 works stable with a 5V part. The possibility to upgrade the CPLD is nice, but for me it is not reasonable to add it at this stage of the project. Edited January 29, 2006 by Kroko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew338 Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Thus, in theory, adding six wires and a jumper to the board might allow for in-circuit programming of the CPLD--not an unreasonable mod. But unfortunately there is not a single free pin on the microcontroller. Even if I found free pins for double usage I don't like how I would have to connect these wires to the controller and how this would become an entirely different device. I am using this method already for some prototypes, but I will not use it with the Krokodile. Also because I don't think it is very likely that 4A50 works stable with a 5V part. The possibility to upgrade the CPLD is nice, but for me it is not reasonable to add it at this stage of the project. 1008929[/snapback] Anxiously awaiting a Krokodile Cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 Anxiously awaiting a Krokodile Cart. I am working as fast as I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Anxiously awaiting a Krokodile Cart. I am working as fast as I can 1016918[/snapback] Awesome, that's what I like to hear I sold my copy and I regretted it. Especially now that the CC2 is still broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1974 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Put me on your list for 4 Krok Carts for me and my friends. Let me know when theyre ready! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Put me on your list for 4 Krok Carts for me and my friends. Let me know when theyre ready! 1020898[/snapback] Please send me a private message with your name and email address so I can add you to the list. Thanks! ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew338 Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 I wonder how long that list is now...gotta be getting up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew338 Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 The list is probably pretty long. I got on it several months ago in hopes of getting one of these. I heard they'd be available soon a long time ago. I'm starting to think that it is just a Hoax. I wonder how long that list is now...gotta be getting up there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 The list is probably pretty long. I got on it several months ago in hopes of getting one of these. I heard they'd be available soon a long time ago. I'm starting to think that it is just a Hoax. The list is long, but everyone on it should be able to get a cart without any problems. It's not a hoax, Armin should be shipping me a new batch of carts to sell fairly soon. As soon as I have them I'll notify those on the waiting list in the order people were added to the list. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 It's definitely not a hoax. I recently got the first one off the new production run. Have patience... you will be rewarded. The Krokodile Cart is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orrimarrko Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 For us "non-technical" people, what does a Krokodile Kart do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stop_rebel_scum Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 How much will they be selling for, are they only by request or will there be enough that it'll be in the atariage store? I think I'm interested... I love the idea of the cc2 but wouldn't get one because I don't enjoy using my 78 in 26 mode for some reason.. colors... the way the carts seem to really maul the console when i stick them in there... This is off topic a bit I suppose but does the cc2 do 7800 games too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 How much will they be selling for, are they only by request or will there be enough that it'll be in the atariage store? They should be $100, which is the price the original run sold for. There should be enough to put in the AtariAge Store after the waiting list is fulfilled, but I don't think they'll last very long. I think I'm interested... I love the idea of the cc2 but wouldn't get one because I don't enjoy using my 78 in 26 mode for some reason.. colors... the way the carts seem to really maul the console when i stick them in there... This is off topic a bit I suppose but does the cc2 do 7800 games too? Both the CC2 and Krokodile Cart are great. The CC2 does do 7800 games as well as 2600 games. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 For us "non-technical" people, what does a Krokodile Kart do? Here's the description from the AtariAge Store: The Krokodile Cartridge is a programmable game cartridge for the 2600 game console. The cartridge contains 512K of Flash ROM that can be programmed by connecting the cartridge to a Windows PC with a serial cable. Once connected to a PC, the Windows-based Krokodile Commander software (screenshots below) is then used to download software into the Krokodile Cartridge. The cartridge also includes 32K of built-in RAM to support games that require additional onboard cartridge memory (such as Atari's SARA-chip games). Using the provided Windows software, you can directly download Atari 2600 ROM images to the cartridge. In addition to downloading a single ROM binary, the cartridge can be used as a multicart. It can store up to 127 games (4K) which can be selected with a built-in menu system. Bankswitched multicarts are also supported, allowing you to create F8 (8K), F6 (16K) and F4 (32K) bankswitched multicarts. The multicarts can be created with the Krokodile Commander software. You can easily select which games you want to have on the cartridge and once you've made your selections you can download the created multicart image to the Krokodile Cartridge. If you're thinking about developing games for the Atari 2600, or if you're already an established homebrew author, the Krokodile Cartridge is a great tool to add to your arsenal. You can quickly download binaries to the Krokodile Cartridge to test on a real system--especially useful as you near the end of your development cycle and want to make sure your game runs correctly on the real thing! The Krokodile Commander can also be invoked on the command-line, which makes it possible to automatically download a binary to the cartridge after your compile has completed. Additionally, there is an "incremental download" mode that will only "patch" the binary in the cartridge, only downloading the differences between the new binary and the binary currently in the cartridge. This allows for extremely fast downloading, especially if the binary has only changed little (which is often the case during development). The Krokodile Cartridge supports the following bankswitching modes: 1K / 2K / 4K (Non-Bankswitched) F8 (Atari 'Standard' 8K) / F8 SARA Chip F6 (Atari 'Standard' 16K) / F6 SARA Chip F4 (Atari 'Standard' 32K) / F4 SARA Chip 3F (Tigervision, up to 512K ROM) 3E (up to 512K ROM and 32K RAM) EF (64K) FA (CBS RAM+ Cartridges) UA (UA Limited - Pleiades & Funky Fish) CV (CommaVid) The following Multicart modes are also supported: 1K / 2K / 4K Multicart (127 Games) F8 (8K) Multicart (63 Games) F6 (16K) Multicart (31 Games) F4 (32K) Multicart (15 Games) Once the Krokodile Cartridge has been programmed, it can be plugged directly into the Atari 2600 like any other game cartridge. When programming the cartridge, it must be connected to its external power supply. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 It should also be pointed out that the Krokodile Cartridge also works great under OS X, using a USB - Serial adapter. Darrell Spice came up with a simple program to load games onto the cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orrimarrko Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 It should also be pointed out that the Krokodile Cartridge also works great under OS X, using a USB - Serial adapter. Darrell Spice came up with a simple program to load games onto the cartridge. Unfortunately, all of that is beyond my technological understanding capacity! (Same with Al's post.) I believe I understand the gist of what you're saying though. You can load games onto the cart and play them, or you can use it to help program/develop games. Thanks, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroko Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 It's not a hoax, Armin should be shipping me a new batch of carts to sell fairly soon. Just a little bit more testing and after that they will be on their way ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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