Another 7800 CC2 Rant

[Paranoid]

MY Cuttle Cart 2 is arriving tomorrow, according to Fedex. So could one of you guys post the proper entry line for this frogger beta for the CC2's menu files?

 

Also if you could post them for the Q-Bert demo that would be great.

 

Thanks fella.

 

So far in MESS this looks fantastic, schmutpuppe. Real quality. I'm dying for it to have sound. 

850380[/snapback]

 

 

As it happens, earlier in this thread I said:

 

 

Use 7800_48K and 78QUICK. You have to use 78QUICK because the bin file doesn't have the authentication signature, though the A78 does.

 

849548[/snapback]

 

 

Q*Bert uses 7800_32K and 78BIOS.

 

Mitch

 

So... one of the things that frustrates me about the CC2 and this community, but is by no means isolated to just this community is the whole RTFM philosophy. I've worked in IT long enough to kind of have an idea of what breeds this. It is one part fed-up aggravation, one part pride, one part nerdy arrogance, and one part "if I just GIVE them the answer, they'll never learn"... plus every now and then a dose of, "I just assumed that anyone familiar with <X> would understand the simple answer I gave" (which I think is probably what the quote ABOVE is about).

 

In this case, anyone asking for a CC2 menu.txt file entry should be able to figure out where the 7800_48 and 78QUICK go, and how to fill in the other fields that are necessary... which is a reasonable enough assumption.

 

But, I think the negative that comes of all of these approaches is that, in forums like this, we end up with these forums that are just... well... messy, with a lot of information, some of it conflicting, that requires a person to wade through an entire thread when all they want to do is get a game up and running on the CC2. I'm certain that some people who do own CC2s don't have the fortitude or technical experience to get all that they can out of the device without some generous assistance, and those are probably the same people most likely to get completely confused by some of the threads on setting up this or that homebrew for the CC2. Which just means that many fewer people play testing and giving feedback to an author.

 

In my case, I skimmed carefully through the entire Frogger thread looking for the information I wanted/needed. Granted, doing so gave me a better understanding of

 

a: What I was doing wrong

 

and

 

b: What and WHY I needed to do what I did to make it work. Once I saw the examples and compared and saw the other Pokey games in my menu.txt, it was clear why I wasn't getting any sound and what I needed to do to get it to work...

 

Which *is* a vote for the "if I just tell them what to do they'll never learn" school of thought...

 

I mean, the thing is, I know enough not to just *ask* for a menu.txt entry. Some nice person here will generally PM you with what you've asked for... but you're bound to become the center of this heated thread for being so bold as to ask for a shortcut to being able to play a game.

 

I'm just curious... why don't the homebrew coders release a file with...

 

"Here is my latest demo... and here is the menu.txt line to cut and paste into your menu.txt if you have a cc2....

 

7800: Frogger (demo) FROGER78 78POKEY 78BIOS

 

<attached file... frogger.zip>"

 

I'm just using frogger as an example... not trying to pick on the author of this excellent 7800 port.

 

Is the hesitation because there is an assumption that the guys who are too lazy and technically unable to figure it out for themselves are also the least likely to actually PAY for a final release on cart? Or is it the reasons above?

 

I guess what I'm asking is... why NOT give the simple answer that people tend to be looking for? An actual line that they can just cut and paste and be off and running? I guess this isn't so much a rant, because I'm not actually sure where I stand on this, and I want to see feedback from other CC2 owners on this. I'd like to keep it civil, too... I'm not trying to flame anyone or troll or start a firestorm here.

[Schmutzpuppe]

(...)

Which *is* a vote for the "if I just tell them what to do they'll never learn" school of thought...

 

I mean, the thing is, I know enough not to just *ask* for a menu.txt entry. Some nice person here will generally PM you with what you've asked for... but you're bound to become the center of this heated thread for being so bold as to ask for a shortcut to being able to play a game.

 

I'm just curious... why don't the homebrew coders release a file with...

 

"Here is my latest demo... and here is the menu.txt line to cut and paste into your menu.txt if you have a cc2....

 

7800: Frogger (demo) FROGER78 78POKEY 78BIOS

 

<attached file... frogger.zip>"

 

I'm just using frogger as an example... not trying to pick on the author of this excellent 7800 port.

 

Is the hesitation because there is an assumption that the guys who are too lazy and technically unable to figure it out for themselves are also the least likely to actually PAY for a final release on cart? Or is it the reasons above?

 

I guess what I'm asking is... why NOT give the simple answer that people tend to be looking for? An actual line that they can just cut and paste and be off and running? I guess this isn't so much a rant, because I'm not actually sure where I stand on this, and I want to see feedback from other CC2 owners on this. I'd like to keep it civil, too... I'm not trying to flame anyone or troll or start a firestorm here.

To be honest I just don't thought that anyone would have a problem with it

[128bytes]

Hey Paranoid - This is why I'm saying we could come up with a menu.txt page. Homebrewers like Schmutzpuppe or kenfused, or hackmeisters like PacManPlus or Nukey Shay, are working hard enough on their programming -- whereas CC2 users could certainly keep a database up and running on a menu.txt thread. Lastly, not all homebrewers/hackers are familiar with the CC2.

[DracIsBack]

You raise a good point that I find often appears in the "homebrew" community. The technical folks don't always understand that the average computer user does not find things to be simple or easy, the way a coder does.

 

I work all day long with developers and I also hear what customers say and there is a very gigantic difference between the two. I'm often shocked at how computer illiterate people are. But I'm also shocked (at times) that the folks which make our software forget that things should be easy for those folks to understand.

 

It's like the Dreamcast homebrew community. I'd love to play all those Dreamcast homebrew games and applications. But I've yet to find a site that speaks in plain english for an average person.

 

Instead, you get stuff like this:

 

Step 1

 

Download Selfboot and install it to c:/Selfboot.

Step2

 

Download the plain files of the homebrew game you want to burn (download from Dreamcast Homebrew to be sure you have a scrambled 1st_read.bin). Extract the plain files to a folder (I will call this folder game folder from now on).

Step3

 

Make sure there is an ip.bin file in the game folder. If there isn't one download this ip.bin and put it in the game folder. There should now be a 1st_read.bin and ip.bin in the game folder.

Step4

 

Run Selfboot.exe and select your game folder. If you use NERO click the NERO (DAO) or NERO (TAO) button to create a .nrg image (use DAO if your burner supports it). If you use DiscJuggler click the DiscJuggler button to create a .cdi image. If you want to burn with CDRecord select CDRecord, click burn to burn the audio track (make sure there is a blank CD in your CD writer), click Msinfo, click Make Iso to build the image, then click Burn to burn the second session.

Step5

 

Burn the NERO or DiscJuggler image with the appropriate program.

 

I look at this and go.

 

Step 1, I can figure out, but a Windows user that doesn't know DOS might be confused because they are used to software that decides where to install.

 

From there, I get lost quick. I look at this and go

 

"What's a plain file?"

"What's an IP.bin file and where do I get it?"

"What's an ISO vs. a CD"? (I know what this is, but many people would have no clue)

"How do all these programs connect together?"

 

If this was consumer software, it would be a wizard thing that says, "Select the downloaded Dreamcast game you want to back up to a CD and click 'NEXT'. Insert a CD and click next. "Burn Dreamcast game to a CD now" and click finish.

 

Done, finished complete.

 

Not singling out the good folks at the DC community but you get the idea. Developers often get the functional side of things but don't alwaysremember the concept of making it easy for the masses.

[jbanes]

Has anyone considered setting up a Wiki to document this stuff? At least that way the information becomes centralized rather than distributed. Any mistakes can easily be updated and fixed without fear that the reader will accidently end up with old info.

[HammR25]

Do these homebrew guys even have CC2s? If they don't own one I certainly wouldn't expect them to know what the menu line should be for their game.

 

What information from the programmers would make it easier to figure out the bankswitching required? I look in the bankswitch folder I see 41 different possible bankswitches. Now when I look at the menu I created that only has my 7800 games in it, there are 2 options for bios used there...the 7800BIOS and HSC.

 

Now, it looks like of the 41 bankswitching files 20 can be used for 7800 games. Do people really go through all 20 to see which one works for these homebrew games?

 

If someone wants to write something up I'll host it. I've already started a sort of very basic CC2 FAQ.

[Paranoid]

A Wiki isn't a bad idea. And I'm a little surprised that I've hit a nerve with this post that seems to be on the same page as I am.

 

128Bytes... I was waiting for a response from you in PM or in the CC2 sticky thread... but this will work just as well, and doesn't derail that thread. So, my buddy who has a hosting service is coming over for lunch today, I'll talk to him.

 

I like the idea of a centralized 7800 site focused SOLELY on the CC2. There are a lot of sites around, but none that cater specifically and solely to the CC2 community, and I think it could be something beneficial to everyone. The only thing I want to avoid is hosting rom images... although, I suppose hosting a homebrews archive with the specific permission of the authors wouldn't be a problem.

 

So... I think we should start talking ideas, at the very least. What kind of program is going to be suitable for a web-front that will meet our goals? Who can set it up? Can we get a web-designer to volunteer his services? I mean, someone designs Atari Age, and 7800.com... and I'd think we want a polished, clean look and reliable navigation. Are we going to use the CC2 name in the domain name? Do we need Chad's permission if we do? I imagine so. I'd want his approval and endorsement anyhow. There is really a lot more to this than it seems on the surface, but I think it is a project that is worthwhile. I think some of the things that stall out here might get more milage on a CC2-centric site, too.

 

And Schmutz, I wasn't trying to single you out or imply that you've done anything wrong. Your efforts for the 7800 community stand on their own. It would be relatively ungrateful for any of us to go,

 

"Man, you put all this effort into designing this EXCELLENT version of Frogger which you then released FULL versions of as ROM images... but we don't think it is enough... you should be flogged for failing to put a cut-and-paste CC2 menu.txt entry in your post along with the rom image".

 

Which doesn't mean it is a BAD idea for homebrew authors to include a CC2 line with their ROM releases. I think it is a fantastic idea. You release these games to get them playtested, and what better community to leverage than the CC2 community, which will play them on real hardware and is fanatic enough to invest $150-$200 on a piece of hardware so that they can? And, as a coder, you know people will take all your effort for granted, but will complain about the slightest thing that doesn't work right or annoys them. Which in my own experience in IT, is annoying, but can be useful if you leverage it right.

 

I've got a pretty complete menu.txt file that has NTSC and PAL titles, although it is not exhaustive. I'd like to see it broke into three files. The original, one that lists just NTSC titles, and one that lists just PAL titles. I'd also like to have it as a searchable index. It would probably be nice to allow registered user to add their own lines to a FOURTH index, too (and maybe to delete them, like a wiki). A FAQ with real simple, easy to understand directions on how to add files (I like instructions even a monkey could follow)... and pointers on where to pick up the things like ROM files in .bin format and the instruction files (as well as a place to get conversion of instruction files to the 40 col format back on track)...

 

You know... basically somewhere to unclutter all these great intentions and get them going in the right direction to make the CC2 more enjoyable and accessible to a wider range of people. CuttleCart2Support.com.

[Paranoid]

Do these homebrew guys even have CC2s? If they don't own one I certainly wouldn't expect them to know what the menu line should be for their game.

 

What information from the programmers would make it easier to figure out the bankswitching required? I look in the bankswitch folder I see 41 different possible bankswitches. Now when I look at the menu I created that only has my 7800 games in it, there are 2 options for bios used there...the 7800BIOS and HSC.

 

Now, it looks like of the 41 bankswitching files 20 can be used for 7800 games. Do people really go through all 20 to see which one works for these homebrew games?

 

If someone wants to write something up I'll host it. I've already started a sort of very basic CC2 FAQ.

 

 

Hammr... this is a real good point too, and might illustrate where the rest of the community needs to come together. And I think your FAQ is an excellent start...

 

I think some of my observations from the 7800 Frogger thread are worth noting...

 

The physical file size of a ROM image is a good indicator of what your menu.txt settings should be. You're not going to use a 32k bank-switching routine on a file that is 16k. If you know that the image uses Pokey, you're going to use a Pokey bios setting. All of these flags have a specific meaning in how the CC2 configures itself to interface with the 7800 and the ROM image... and the CC2 manual may actually explain this quite clearly... I probably SHOULD RTFM...

 

I'm going to go do that now... Heh.

 

Ok... I just read it. I guess what would be really helpful is a Howto/walkthrough/tutorial Bankswitching and Startup files on the CC2 for Dummies document. There are 5 fields in the menu.txt file.

 

Menu Display Name

Menu Display Additional Info

File Name to load (GAME.BIN)

Bankswitching File to load

Startup BIOS to load

 

And Bankswitching and BIOS are the important ones.

 

On 7800 titles, it helps to conceptualize which files are NOT appropriate for startup. SC and 26QUICK are not appropriate. The QUICK startups all look like they're not 100% reliable, and I don't see why you would generally bother. So, 78BIOS and HSC are your TWO main choices here. I'm not sure about F6BANK0 and F6BANK1... but my guess is that these are 2600 bank-switching schemes? So, if your game is a 7800 title that does NOT use the high-score cart, your STARTUP entry is going to be 78BIOS. If it DOES use the high-scroe cart, it is going to be HSC. A quick look at my menu text confirms this.

 

The Bankswitching Configuration is a little more complex with a lot more choices. It seems like the important information to understand is the size of the ROM image and if it is Pokey or HSC (High Score Cart) compatible. The things that confuse me here are:

 

78SC_POK (specifically, if there is a BIG and LOW for the SC bankswitch, why isn't there a 78SC_POKLO and 78SC_POKBIG bankswitching file?)

 

78SC_LOW (will this just be any ROM with a 128kb size?)

 

78SC_R16

78SC_R8K

78SC_SM (anything with 64kb size?)

78SCR8SM

ABS78

and

ACT78 (Any 7800 Activision title?)

Edited May 19, 2006 by Paranoid

[HammR25]

Another thing I'd like to see is detailed instructions on how to get a Pokey chip onto the CC2 or it would be nice if someone offered the service to put it on.

 

I also noticed something else today. I originally bought a sandisk 32 mb MMC card and some cardreader from Newegg.com Some games wouldn't play and I had problems with one of my menus and didn't know why. After Paranoid telling me that Chad had said it was all based on the Sandisk standard I went ahead and got a SanDisk card reader. At first I still had the same problems with the card as before so I went ahead and formatted the card and it's worked flawlessly since then. Before Ace of Aces wouldn't work right and I think my alphabetized "R" menu was corrupt too but it all works just fine now.

[DracIsBack]

My dream for a cuttle cart is is an easy program for adding, renaming, deleting files.

 

You launch the program

You insert your memory card

The program reads what's on your memory card

You select "add, subtract or rename a 7800 bin file"

It does that

You click done

Your cuttle cart is ready to go!

 

File added. Menu updated. Files in the right spot with right "settings".

 

Perfect for general gamers to play.

 

Just to be clear. I find the Cuttle Cart to be one of the damn coolest things I've ever bought and I'm grateful to Chad for making it. This is just a dream -- a nice to have.

Edited May 19, 2006 by DracIsBack

[oesii]

How much money are the hobby 7800 gurus making for providing us support for the CC2? When it becomes a real business then maybe a more efficent support model is needed.

 

For now, I paid Chad $$$ for the CC2, he provided documentation. It was all I needed to get it up and running. Everything else that is provided here (homebrew roms and tips) has been much appreciated but its only extra not required for me to be happy with the CC2.

 

But I do admire your idealism and sense of community, if I had time or skill I wouldnt mind contributing to some CC2 wiki or community based website.

[Paranoid]

Yeah, don't get me wrong... this isn't about a sense of entitlement or that things SHOULD be better... I think they *can* be better, and I'm willing to try and put forth some personal effort and expenditure to make it happen, if I can get some people to support me, because I know I can't do it alone.

 

So... I spoke with my friend, and he would be willing to give us some space on one of his hosted sites and if we get a domain name registered he'll host that domain. I'll go ahead and pick up the tab on registering a domain name for a year or 8 years or whatever the best deal is at the registrar I usually use. Any suggestions for names?

 

I'd just go ahead and do it all myself, but I'm afraid it would be a half-assed, amateurish job.

[Almost Rice]

Drac,

 

Could you enlighten me on how to understand the Dreamcast instructions? I was trying to get the emulators to work, but I could not figure it out. I now have 2 DC and have not used it except for some bought games. I could use some help or in this area.

 

I found that using the CC2 is very easy compared to DC disk setup.

 

You raise a good point that I find often appears in the "homebrew" community. The technical folks don't always understand that the average computer user does not find things to be simple or easy, the way a coder does.

 

I work all day long with developers and I also hear what customers say and there is a very gigantic difference between the two. I'm often shocked at how computer illiterate people are. But I'm also shocked (at times) that the folks which make our software forget that things should be easy for those folks to understand.

 

It's like the Dreamcast homebrew community. I'd love to play all those Dreamcast homebrew games and applications. But I've yet to find a site that speaks in plain english for an average person.

 

Instead, you get stuff like this:

 

Step 1

 

Download Selfboot and install it to c:/Selfboot.

Step2

 

Download the plain files of the homebrew game you want to burn (download from Dreamcast Homebrew to be sure you have a scrambled 1st_read.bin). Extract the plain files to a folder (I will call this folder game folder from now on).

Step3

 

Make sure there is an ip.bin file in the game folder. If there isn't one download this ip.bin and put it in the game folder. There should now be a 1st_read.bin and ip.bin in the game folder.

Step4

 

Run Selfboot.exe and select your game folder. If you use NERO click the NERO (DAO) or NERO (TAO) button to create a .nrg image (use DAO if your burner supports it). If you use DiscJuggler click the DiscJuggler button to create a .cdi image. If you want to burn with CDRecord select CDRecord, click burn to burn the audio track (make sure there is a blank CD in your CD writer), click Msinfo, click Make Iso to build the image, then click Burn to burn the second session.

Step5

 

Burn the NERO or DiscJuggler image with the appropriate program.

 

I look at this and go.

 

Step 1, I can figure out, but a Windows user that doesn't know DOS might be confused because they are used to software that decides where to install.

 

From there, I get lost quick. I look at this and go

 

"What's a plain file?"

"What's an IP.bin file and where do I get it?"

"What's an ISO vs. a CD"? (I know what this is, but many people would have no clue)

"How do all these programs connect together?"

 

If this was consumer software, it would be a wizard thing that says, "Select the downloaded Dreamcast game you want to back up to a CD and click 'NEXT'. Insert a CD and click next. "Burn Dreamcast game to a CD now" and click finish.

 

Done, finished complete.

 

Not singling out the good folks at the DC community but you get the idea. Developers often get the functional side of things but don't alwaysremember the concept of making it easy for the masses.

Edited May 20, 2006 by Almost Rice

[Paranoid]

Step 1

 

Download Selfboot and install it to c:/Selfboot.

Step2

 

Download the plain files of the homebrew game you want to burn (download from Dreamcast Homebrew to be sure you have a scrambled 1st_read.bin). Extract the plain files to a folder (I will call this folder game folder from now on).

Step3

 

Make sure there is an ip.bin file in the game folder. If there isn't one download this ip.bin and put it in the game folder. There should now be a 1st_read.bin and ip.bin in the game folder.

Step4

 

Run Selfboot.exe and select your game folder. If you use NERO click the NERO (DAO) or NERO (TAO) button to create a .nrg image (use DAO if your burner supports it). If you use DiscJuggler click the DiscJuggler button to create a .cdi image. If you want to burn with CDRecord select CDRecord, click burn to burn the audio track (make sure there is a blank CD in your CD writer), click Msinfo, click Make Iso to build the image, then click Burn to burn the second session.

Step5

 

Burn the NERO or DiscJuggler image with the appropriate program.

 

So, if these instructions are literal, and I read them right...

 

Selfboot.exe needs to be in your root directory of your hard drive, in this case, they assume it is c:\

 

Download the homebrew you want. Extract it to a folder under c:\

 

for example, c:\mygame

 

So in a directory called c:\mygame you will have a bunch of Dreamcast files...

 

There should be a file called ip.bin in the folder c:\mygame. If not, you need to download this file, and place it in c:\mygame (please note, "mygame" is whatever you called it, or whatever the title of the game is, or whatever is appropriate, mygame is just an example).

 

Run c:\selfboot.exe from a command prompt. Something is going to come up to request you to enter the path to your game folder. You'll enter c:\mygame

 

Your next step is to build a disc image (a single file that contains all of the data for an entire CD disc in one file). These files are read by your CD burning software, and it uses these files to create the actual disc. The instructions here are specific to a bunch of different burning programs. Nero, DiscJuggler, etc. You still appear to be in selfboot.exe here... these should be menu or requester windows or some other selector where you tell it what kind of image you want (.ngr, .iso, etc.)

 

Once you're done with that step, you'll have a .ngr or .iso image... you then open your software (Nero, for example, load that .iso image, and burn it... then your dreamcast will read your burnt disc.

 

But, I've never owned a Dreamcast and have zero interest in it, emulation or otherwise. The instructions make sense to me, though. It is a pretty complex multi-step process though, according to this doc. First you're using some sort of ZIP type program to copy the files to a directory, then you're downloading selfboot.exe and using it to read that directory and create a disc image, then you're using your disc burning software to burn the actual disc from the image you created.

[HammR25]

I think the following line was probably pulled from a webpage with a url under "here" so it would read like this:

 

Make sure there is an ip.bin file in the game folder. If there isn't one download this ip.bin and put it in the game folder. There should now be a 1st_read.bin and ip.bin in the game folder.

 

Basically you just click on "this ip.bin" to get the file.

[Chickybaby]

I had someone else take care of programming my CC2 for me since I know nada about it. I know that was so awesome of them! But, with homebrew or new games coming out I know I am losing out on playing those because of my lack in technical knowledge and honestly I would just rather leave all that to the "professionals" to handle and just enjoy the games. There's so much else that's going on that struggling with programming stuff is well below the bottom of my list of things to do and I hope there are other people like me out there.

Just my .015 cents.

[kenfused]

I have tested Beef Drop and Q*bert both on the CC2. Believe it or not I have never edited (that I can remember) the menu.txt file although I have downloaded some from time to time. I mostly bought the cart for development where I use almost exclusively the serial cable. Unlike the 2600 games, there are very few settings to pick from and once you look at the filesize that narrows it down anymore. Besides, I like to leave it a suprise if my game uses HSC or Pokey and eventually someone will post that. I would think for all or most 32K 7800 games it probably doesnt matter if you pick Pokey or HSC even if the game does not support it. It might not be too hard to write something that could take an a78 file that would turn it into a bin file and display the other settings you would need for menu.txt. I am guessing the reason the CC2 program doesn't handle a78 files is because that would only work for the 7800 games and the bulk of games available are for the 2600.

[Urchlay]

The Bankswitching Configuration is a little more complex with a lot more choices.

 

If you use .a78 files instead of raw .bin files, you can write code that makes a pretty good "educated guess" by looking at the cart type (bytes $35 and $36 of the 128-byte A78 header) and the image size.

 

I like your idea about a community-supported CC2 site... one question, though: How will your web application be able to generate a MENU.TXT file without the user uploading all his ROMs to the server? Seems like you'd want a local app that the user installs and runs on his machine...

 

Hm, if your naive CC2 user was knowledgeable enough to hook up the CC2 serial cable, you could write an app that lets him interactively try out different bankswitch/BIOS types for a ROM (using the A78 header to suggest the most likely candidated), and once he gets it to work, adds it to a database... then later he clicks a button to read the database and turn it into a file that works on the CC2 (and copies the ROMs (minus their A78 headers) and menu file to the MMC card). It'd basically be an enhanced version of the upload software that comes with the CC2.

 

I dunno if this would work for your target audience, though: having to put the CC2 in development mode, then switching back to menu mode... having to hook up the serial cable (new PCs and Macs don't come with serial ports, so they'd have to buy a USB to serial cable, install its drivers, set it up to work with your software)... This would all seem pretty technical to the casual user.

 

Hm, OK, how about this:

 

Your web site basically consists of a giant database of checksums, each mapped to a menu entry that's known to work. More technical users will contribute these menu entries, and less technical users will install a little app that you drag a ROM image icon to (or specify a whole directory full of ROMs), and it calculates the checksum and asks your web server for the menu entry for that checksum, with no user intervention. Unknown checksums will ask the user whether he wants to upload the image to your site, so someone can help...

 

You'd need volunteers willing to go through this queue and come up with a menu entry for the ROMs (or determine that they're bad ROMs that won't work), and maybe have the site email the original user who uploaded the ROM, letting him know it's been classified, and to try again.

 

That's all I can think of, but I'm sure there's something else...

[Paranoid]

The Bankswitching Configuration is a little more complex with a lot more choices.

 

If you use .a78 files instead of raw .bin files, you can write code that makes a pretty good "educated guess" by looking at the cart type (bytes $35 and $36 of the 128-byte A78 header) and the image size.

 

I like your idea about a community-supported CC2 site... one question, though: How will your web application be able to generate a MENU.TXT file without the user uploading all his ROMs to the server? Seems like you'd want a local app that the user installs and runs on his machine...

 

Hm, if your naive CC2 user was knowledgeable enough to hook up the CC2 serial cable, you could write an app that lets him interactively try out different bankswitch/BIOS types for a ROM (using the A78 header to suggest the most likely candidated), and once he gets it to work, adds it to a database... then later he clicks a button to read the database and turn it into a file that works on the CC2 (and copies the ROMs (minus their A78 headers) and menu file to the MMC card). It'd basically be an enhanced version of the upload software that comes with the CC2.

 

I dunno if this would work for your target audience, though: having to put the CC2 in development mode, then switching back to menu mode... having to hook up the serial cable (new PCs and Macs don't come with serial ports, so they'd have to buy a USB to serial cable, install its drivers, set it up to work with your software)... This would all seem pretty technical to the casual user.

 

Hm, OK, how about this:

 

Your web site basically consists of a giant database of checksums, each mapped to a menu entry that's known to work. More technical users will contribute these menu entries, and less technical users will install a little app that you drag a ROM image icon to (or specify a whole directory full of ROMs), and it calculates the checksum and asks your web server for the menu entry for that checksum, with no user intervention. Unknown checksums will ask the user whether he wants to upload the image to your site, so someone can help...

 

You'd need volunteers willing to go through this queue and come up with a menu entry for the ROMs (or determine that they're bad ROMs that won't work), and maybe have the site email the original user who uploaded the ROM, letting him know it's been classified, and to try again.

 

That's all I can think of, but I'm sure there's something else...

 

Heh... see... this is why you want to get a lot of brains working on something like this. I love that idea. It is far more technical than what I had in mind. I simply envisioned a sight with 3 text files that you could scroll through/search... kind of like the Carts database here on Atari Age. So, you go to the CC2 menu.txt settings page, and you select either the PAL/NTSC master database, the PAL only database, or the NTSC database. Then on that page you can filter... wildcard or something more specific... so you put in "Frogger"

 

And it comes back:

 

 

7800: Frogger (demo) FROGER78 78POKEY 78BIOS

Frogger FROGGER 4K 78BIOS

Frogger (Supercharger) FROGER00 SC SC

 

And you can cut and paste those into your menu.txt file and add the ROM file to your games directory after manually renaming it correctly... the site doesn't do the work for you, it just cuts out the trial and error method of configuring your menu.txt file entries.

 

The FORTH database would be the one that allowed user modification or user upload of new or alternate menu.txt entries. The site would certainly need moderators... and they could review submissions and approve or deny them after testing them on their own CC2s.

 

I'm thinking something pretty simple and easy... at least to start. But having it grow into something like what you guys are talking about would be cool, too. Again, I don't have the coding ability to create a program to do this... I couldn't even do the mysql database and entry form for the web-app myself (although I have a good conceptual idea of what would be involved in this part of the design, and I probably COULD design the form database in SQL 2000). I'd need volunteers to do the web-design and format... to create the database... to moderate... But if we can get volunteers on board, I've got a guy who is willing to loan us some space on his hosted servers... and I'll buy the domain name... help with writing content (FAQs, tips and tricks, whatever I *can* contribute). I'd be willing to be a remote system admin on the site... if the system needed a reboot or needed a process killed or apache restarted, I could handle that much... or that kind of thing... too...

[Paranoid]

So...

 

Who owns the page

 

http://www.geocities.com/mot505/

 

And is this the same person that made the JAVA menu generator code? I just tried it on my G4, and it works excellent... I'm assuming it also runs fine on a Linux machine (although I don't have a Linux box built out to test it on right now). Really a great example of the cross platform flexibility and power of Java though.

 

Anyhow... does anyone know who owns this application, and who owns this site? My guess is that they MUST be a member here...

[Paranoid]

Along these lines... I have a question...

 

I know how you would format an MMC card on Linux for Fat 16...

 

But how would you achieve this on a Macintosh, if you needed to? Is there a way, or do you just hope that your card arrives in Fat 16 format?

[jbanes]

But how would you achieve this on a Macintosh, if you needed to? Is there a way, or do you just hope that your card arrives in Fat 16 format?

 

newfs_msdos -F 16 /dev/<diskid>

 

The graphical tools will probably work fine as well, but I know the command line off the top of my head.

[Paranoid]

<smacking myself>

 

I forget that OS X is *nix.

 

Duh!