Brian R. Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 So, they were basically talking about a re-launch of the 7800? Wouldn't that have been unprecedented? I wonder why. The dedicated systems had their day - I see their popularity on the decline if not gone already - but bringing back an old 8-bit system is another matter. Would it still have used cartridges? Would it have had built-in games? What games would have been available - just the stuff from the day, or new ones? How could this have worked without the RCA jack connections that are common to TVs and game systems now? Pricing? The 7800 may have been Atari's most capable system at reproducing 80s arcade graphics at home, but it certainly wasn't the most well known or successful. Maybe all these questions explains why this project never went to production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gambler172 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Is it just me, or does the Fuji symbol on the case look a little too spread out? The bars making the logo should be a little closer. Just my opinion, anyway. Nah, I think it looks cool still. I would love to own this unit but just watch the price rise and rise. I would pay $100 for it maybe even $200 but I bet this thing goes for not a cent less than $500. Hi Shawn yes,i agree with you.It will go for much more.I own one too and it was not cheap. greetings Walter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_ruck Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Oooo shiny. Looks like it's time to pick up some extra freelance work really fast. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian R. Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 (edited) Eight bids and at $510, with the above Eric Ruck the current high bidder. And there's still five days to go! Edited September 5, 2006 by Brian R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I have a funny feeling if I have interest, where any money from selling Eli's Ladder could go...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Psionic Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Neat, I suppose...but it would have made more sense to do a 'signature edition' of a console that was actually produced during the Bushnell era... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Just saw this post - okay so to fill everyone in... I had been working with Atari back in 2002 and was also being emailed by Bill OShea about wanting to reproduce the 7800 pro-system. Well I commissioned SunMark to do a new PCB design and I worked with a close friend and former Atari Industrial designer and together we came up with a new updated look for the 7800 case which some nice modern accents. Meanwhile Bill Oshea contacted Bushnell and cut a deal to use his signature, so after some design ideas we came up with the Signature Series 7800 console remake. I had obtained the full chip "tape outs" for the Maria chip and we were set to go, but Bill wanted all of the work done upfront for free and would repay for the engineering after he sold 200,000 units. Costing would've been insane to reproduce the chipsets, build out the consoles, etc and there was no way anyone wanted to foot the bill upfront... so it got canned. I had 3 special white cases done for the team - myself, Mark Diluciano and Tom Palecki, so only 3 whites were ever made making them even more valuable. Well after the Oshea attempt failed, I kept the spirit of the project going and tried to get Atari to go for it, time contraints and price point scuttled the real-7800 project and Flashback 1 came out instead. Curt As for the auction... I wouldn't bid on this - certainly for these prices (over $300 as of this writing) - without knowing substantially more about it. Details and identities are sorely lacking. This was a legitimate project (I was "in the know" at the time) and the goal was to make a run of new Atari 7800 units with the housing pictured in the auction. Mark DiLuciano (of Sunmark) designed the new Atari 7800 PCB to be used for this project, I'll post a picture of one later. I believe Curt Vendel designed the plastic housing, which internally is the same as a normal 7800 housing, which is why a standard 7800 PCB fits fine inside the case. It's possible that Curt wanted to use this case design for the original Flashback console, he'll have to speak to that. But this particular shell is meant for the 7800 PCB that was created for this project, with the connectors and other jacks and switches in the same positions as the original 7800. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 Thanks for the insight, Curt! I had 3 special white cases done for the team - myself, Mark Diluciano and Tom Palecki, so only 3 whites were ever made making them even more valuable. Were there cases produced in any other colors? ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian R. Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Just saw this post - okay so to fill everyone in... I had been working with Atari back in 2002 and was also being emailed by Bill OShea about wanting to reproduce the 7800 pro-system. Well I commissioned SunMark to do a new PCB design and I worked with a close friend and former Atari Industrial designer and together we came up with a new updated look for the 7800 case which some nice modern accents. Meanwhile Bill Oshea contacted Bushnell and cut a deal to use his signature, so after some design ideas we came up with the Signature Series 7800 console remake. I had obtained the full chip "tape outs" for the Maria chip and we were set to go, but Bill wanted all of the work done upfront for free and would repay for the engineering after he sold 200,000 units. Costing would've been insane to reproduce the chipsets, build out the consoles, etc and there was no way anyone wanted to foot the bill upfront... so it got canned. I had 3 special white cases done for the team - myself, Mark Diluciano and Tom Palecki, so only 3 whites were ever made making them even more valuable. Well after the Oshea attempt failed, I kept the spirit of the project going and tried to get Atari to go for it, time contraints and price point scuttled the real-7800 project and Flashback 1 came out instead. Curt As for the auction... I wouldn't bid on this - certainly for these prices (over $300 as of this writing) - without knowing substantially more about it. Details and identities are sorely lacking. This was a legitimate project (I was "in the know" at the time) and the goal was to make a run of new Atari 7800 units with the housing pictured in the auction. Mark DiLuciano (of Sunmark) designed the new Atari 7800 PCB to be used for this project, I'll post a picture of one later. I believe Curt Vendel designed the plastic housing, which internally is the same as a normal 7800 housing, which is why a standard 7800 PCB fits fine inside the case. It's possible that Curt wanted to use this case design for the original Flashback console, he'll have to speak to that. But this particular shell is meant for the 7800 PCB that was created for this project, with the connectors and other jacks and switches in the same positions as the original 7800. ..Al Ah, so it was an O'Shea related project. That explains a lot. I wonder how many boxed 7800 games they're still sitting on in their mine? I could see why they'd want a new 7800 on the market - would help them sell those games, or at least they'd hope. Back when I first got a 7800, I was able to populate my collection very quickly thanks to O'Shea. That was back before they raised their prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 O' Shea looks to me like it's thinning out some. I'm fortunate to have one of the nicer looking 7800's myself. If I hada couple grand on me, I'd probably still pass on the white one since mine is in excellent condition. If I didn't have nice 7800, I'd hop on that real quick. How bout casting some white cartridge cases to go with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 We did 10 cases in total in a grey color style, half were done with the Atari symbol, the other half with just ProSystem in the center as Atari was debating whether they were going to allow the branding on the console if OShea produced it. When I commissioned the special white versions, I had them done in a pearl white, so they have a gorgeous luster to the finished, especially the buttons. My white unit has a blue led which makes it look awesome. All of the grey units we did I put in Green LED's which really looked good. Believe me, I have been striving hard over the last 4-5 years to bring back Atari product, this is another example --- for every 10 canned projects, you usually can get one good product out the door... I have been hammering away at a few more things and with hope perhaps the FB3 will make it out in 07' Curt Thanks for the insight, Curt! I had 3 special white cases done for the team - myself, Mark Diluciano and Tom Palecki, so only 3 whites were ever made making them even more valuable. Were there cases produced in any other colors? ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggs130 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 what Fb3 in 'o7! you all here that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggs130 Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) We did 10 cases in total in a grey color style, half were done with the Atari symbol, the other half with just ProSystem in the center as Atari was debating whether they were going to allow the branding on the console if OShea produced it. When I commissioned the special white versions, I had them done in a pearl white, so they have a gorgeous luster to the finished, especially the buttons. My white unit has a blue led which makes it look awesome. All of the grey units we did I put in Green LED's which really looked good. Believe me, I have been striving hard over the last 4-5 years to bring back Atari product, this is another example --- for every 10 canned projects, you usually can get one good product out the door... I have been hammering away at a few more things and with hope perhaps the FB3 will make it out in 07' Curt Thanks for the insight, Curt! I had 3 special white cases done for the team - myself, Mark Diluciano and Tom Palecki, so only 3 whites were ever made making them even more valuable. Were there cases produced in any other colors? ..Al I think I've lost my mind!!!! but she sure is a pretty one ~ Edited September 6, 2006 by diggs130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Thanks for that very interesting info Curt! I knew I wasn't imagining things when I remembered the connection to the Flashback, although I wasn't aware of the O'Shea's connection. Making a new 7800 to help sell the games was a good idea (INTV did much the same thing with the Intellivision III in the mid-80s), and it's too bad it didn't work out; I would have LOVED to see a brand new 7800 released in today's world. Come to think of it, it's such a pity that so many of these cool projects have gotten canned! From the FB3 prototype to the original Flashback concept to the Atari keychain games, it seems that something always comes up at the last minute and cuts them off. I certainly appreciate all your efforts to create new Atari products, and I'm glad to hear that the FB3 isn't a dead project after all. Looking forward to seeing it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 A question just occured to me regarding these new 7800 cases. As I understand it, designing and tooling a new injection mold for new cases like these is a VERY expensive process (something like $10K or more depending on the complexity of the mold), but once the mold is done, it's relatively easy and inexpensive to make the cases themselves; all that requires is new plastic. Since a small number of cases have obviously been made, the money has already been spent to create the mold. What would prevent someone from using it to make more cases that could be sold by themselves? I think it would be a great thing to have for refurbishing/restoring beat-up 7800 consoles (even without the logo/signature if those have to be left out for legal reasons), and it would allow Curt to recoup at least some of his design and manufacturing costs. It would be a shame to stick that mold on a shelf somewhere--or on the scrap heap!--and have all of that work go to waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Interesting question.... Okay, gotta blow off the cobwebs and remember what the costing and such was, I think the initial casing tools for the pilot run were about $10K with the files for the aluminum cuts for the production die's. The proto casting molds belong to Oshea and they now have them (or had them. I don't know) But those were only good for doing the short (10-20 pcs) run and are not production quantity mold die's. I don't know if Oshea ever took it to the point of having the metal cut for the production dies as there were like 3 pieces (top, bottom, buttons) for die's to be cut, so that would've been about $25-$35K for a single set good for around 50K-100K pcs to be made, I don't think Oshea pursued it much further past our prototypes, I know I got a LOT of emails forwarded to me from various Asian firms who were mass-emailed by Oshea with the offer to build the units, but that they (the production companies) would foot the production bill and Oshea would pay them back after they were sold. Two problems with that - the quantity of 200K was so low no one would want to devote the time and resources and #2 - no one would foot the bill for a later promisary of repayment, there is too much work begging to be done oversea's for anyone to want to take such a deal, so the requirements that Bill Oshea had outlined were the death knell for the project unfortunately. I give Bill credit for wanting to do the product, but not wanting to go out, get the financing and pay for it himself was the downfall. Curt A question just occured to me regarding these new 7800 cases. As I understand it, designing and tooling a new injection mold for new cases like these is a VERY expensive process (something like $10K or more depending on the complexity of the mold), but once the mold is done, it's relatively easy and inexpensive to make the cases themselves; all that requires is new plastic. Since a small number of cases have obviously been made, the money has already been spent to create the mold. What would prevent someone from using it to make more cases that could be sold by themselves? I think it would be a great thing to have for refurbishing/restoring beat-up 7800 consoles (even without the logo/signature if those have to be left out for legal reasons), and it would allow Curt to recoup at least some of his design and manufacturing costs. It would be a shame to stick that mold on a shelf somewhere--or on the scrap heap!--and have all of that work go to waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbanes Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 I give Bill credit for wanting to do the product, but not wanting to go out, get the financing and pay for it himself was the downfall. You'd think that with the stock they have (which could easily be used as collateral) they could easily get a loan or an investor. $25-$35K just isn't THAT much money to not be able to fund a project. BTW, in case anyone else has never heard of them before, their webaddress is: http://www.oshealtd.com/atari.htm Apparently they "over a million mint condition" carts in their "Underground Limestone Cave". Now there's an original take on warehousing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Well... its a LOT more then that: 1 set of plastic die molds - $30K (just go with an medium price) - 2 sets would be needed, possibly 3 sets if parts wear is more rapid in the 1st mold usage run. (I know we commissioned 6 sets of high density steel for the FB2 run of parts so we could potentially go up to 1.2-1.4 million pcs run) PCB boards $2 approx at 200K components - $8 New IC's - $200K development $4.50 each @ 200K joysticks $1.80 x 2 (400k) packaging - $2 So you are looking at approx $21 X 200K thats about $4mill give or take, so it is a LOT of investment upfront... The FB2 on the other hand is a much simpler device, less components, simpler and less costly CPU, the unit cost of those is less then 1/2 what the 7800 remake would've cost and 860K were made, its a lot of money. Bill had intended to sell the units for $79.99 with 5 games as I recall. Curt I give Bill credit for wanting to do the product, but not wanting to go out, get the financing and pay for it himself was the downfall. You'd think that with the stock they have (which could easily be used as collateral) they could easily get a loan or an investor. $25-$35K just isn't THAT much money to not be able to fund a project. BTW, in case anyone else has never heard of them before, their webaddress is: http://www.oshealtd.com/atari.htm Apparently they "over a million mint condition" carts in their "Underground Limestone Cave". Now there's an original take on warehousing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbanes Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 (edited) So you are looking at approx $21 X 200K thats about $4mill give or take, so it is a LOT of investment upfront... That actually makes a lot more sense, and is more in line with the cost projections I did on my game console project. So was his plan to spread the costs across all the different partners? Edited September 7, 2006 by jbanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 (edited) Wow...too bad this project did not make it out of the gate. However, I believe even if it did see the light of day, it was(is) a *really* bad decision to offer RF Output only. At least, composite output should have been integrated in this day and age. RF Output was okay in 1986 (But even then NES had composite offerings). In the year 2006, RF Output only seems very outdated and hurtful to the sales of this console (Especially with a projected 200,000 trying to sell). This console appeared to be targeted beyond just the hardcore classic/Atari gamer crowd only. -Trebor Edited September 7, 2006 by Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Vinnie Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I put in a bid of $560 just to say I did and I have been the high bidder for a day and a half. My wfe will kill me if I win! (I know I wont win, this thing will sell for $1100) Cousin Vinnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamajoe Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Wow...too bad this project did not make it out of the gate. However, I believe even if it did see the light of day, it was(is) a *really* bad decision to offer RF Output only. At least, composite output should have been integrated in this day and age. RF Output was okay in 1986 (But even then NES had composite offerings). In the year 2006, RF Output only seems very outdated and hurtful to the sales of this console (Especially with a projected 200,000 trying to sell). This console appeared to be targeted beyond just the hardcore classic/Atari gamer crowd only. -Trebor composite would have been nice... or SCART like the french version of the 7800 (great picture quality!) but the case looks nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacMan Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I put in a bid of $560 just to say I did and I have been the high bidder for a day and a half. My wfe will kill me if I win! (I know I wont win, this thing will sell for $1100) Cousin Vinnie *hehe* OK then, I will not bid anymore /P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 I put in a bid of $560 just to say I did and I have been the high bidder for a day and a half. My wfe will kill me if I win! (I know I wont win, this thing will sell for $1100) Cousin Vinnie Methinks you might be in a bit of trouble if something doesn't happen soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie3 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 A brand new 7800 console that played VCS and 7800 carts would have been cool for sure. The Flashback III will hopefully be the coolest yet. I think I am more looking forward to brand new quality games as opposed to a console repro. Anyone else feel this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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