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How do I use an Atari SC monitor with an Atari 8-bit?


FastRobPlus

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Is this a simple cable hack? Is there an adapter out there somewhere?

 

You will need an NTSC to RGB converter, then you'll need to adapt the funky plug on the SC monitor. Will probably cost more than buying a nice S-Video capable TV.

 

-Bry

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Commodore Monitors...

 

Commodore monitors? Come on - I used to think you guys were cool...

While I'm at it, maybe I should go buy a Chevy so I can go out and stick some Ford parts on it!

 

 

:) Okay just just kidding! :)

 

 

I do have a lot of Commodore, Amiga, and other monitors (see - there's one now!) with composite or Y/C input, but I'm looking for a perfect match for the Atari 130XE. I really want that prototype XE composite monitor, but I don't think anyone's selling or trading at this time... Barring that, I'd like to use an Atari SC1224, since the style is the same. I suppose I could gut one and install some other monitor's internals...

Alternately, I could divest my XE stuff and just stick with an origianl 800. At least I do have the "matching" monitor for it, since they were noramally mated with Amdek color 1 displays.

post-11578-1181958985_thumb.jpg

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Actually, if you know enough about electronics, e.g. an associate bachelor's or higher degree in electronics or self-taught equivelent education, you could design your own RGB-to-Chroma/lumina and/or Composite circuit for an Atari SC monitor and drill some holes for the adapter outlets (jack).

 

But I have been using Commodore Monitors for a while now. First was a 1702, or a 1902, it had Chroma/Lumina inputs in the form of two RCA jacks on the back and the composite RCA jack on the front, if both of those monitors have this feature then I think it was the 1701. That monitor was left behind when I moved a number of years ago, and shipping was more than it was worth to get it back. I bought a 1084S with an Amiga 2000 and C64 and a bunch of other Commodore computers and devices for $50 from a second-hand electronics shop instead. I've been using the 1084S ever since with my XE(sold) and now my 1200XL(upgraded more than the XE). But I ALSO have an Apple composite monitor I picked up for about $10 at a Goodwill, and it works well too, though only composite. I used it with my 800 for a while until I sold the 800 and now I just use it as a test monitor when I upgrade 2600/7800/5200's with composite/s-video upgrades as well as other systems; I'm working on a composite ouput circuit for a Bally Astrocade unit right now. GORF RULES! Especially on the ASTROCADE! But I digress. Amdek is another option, or these days even buying a small TV with S-video or composite and just buying or making a cable.

 

But if you want an Atari monitor, to match your XE, here is the big trick: The Atari SC1435 monitor is the same internally as one of the Commodore monitors, I think it's the 1084. And since the 1084's have the chroma/Lumina(S-video) and composite outputs, you could take the guts of a 1084 and stick it into the SC1435 with some case monifications for the new 1084 outputs (basically swap out the boards and tube, or even maybe just the board actually, and plug it into the identical tube in the SC monitor. So you could even find a broken SC1435 for dirt cheap, just to use it's case, and then a working 1084 (which it looks like you have already)

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But if you want an Atari monitor, to match your XE, here is the big trick: The Atari SC1435 monitor is the same internally as one of the Commodore monitors, I think it's the 1084. And since the 1084's have the chroma/Lumina(S-video) and composite outputs, you could take the guts of a 1084 and stick it into the SC1435 with some case monifications for the new 1084 outputs (basically swap out the boards and tube, or even maybe just the board actually, and plug it into the identical tube in the SC monitor. So you could even find a broken SC1435 for dirt cheap, just to use it's case, and then a working 1084 (which it looks like you have already)

 

Exactly. I have a dead SC1435 here that I am planning on doing this exact thing to. I just need to find a spare Commodore 1084S D2 monitor. Note it has to be the D1 or D2 varient, as there are a couple 1084 styled monitor from commodore.

 

Look here, someone has already done this:

 

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~startreks/SC1435.html

Edited by tjlazer
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Good suggestions all. I also have used the madcatz screen and was thinking about modding one to be like a XE styled periferal.

 

The back of that modified SC1435 looks like a completely stock magnavox/philips/Commodore monitor! It the back identical? Could it just be as easy as replacing the front half of an C= 1084s with an SC1435?? It's a bit hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like the front of that modded console is an SC1435 but the back is a commodore beige..

Edited by FastRobPlus
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But if you want an Atari monitor, to match your XE, here is the big trick: The Atari SC1435 monitor is the same internally as one of the Commodore monitors, I think it's the 1084. And since the 1084's have the chroma/Lumina(S-video) and composite outputs, you could take the guts of a 1084 and stick it into the SC1435 with some case monifications for the new 1084 outputs (basically swap out the boards and tube, or even maybe just the board actually, and plug it into the identical tube in the SC monitor. So you could even find a broken SC1435 for dirt cheap, just to use it's case, and then a working 1084 (which it looks like you have already)

 

Exactly. I have a dead SC1435 here that I am planning on doing this exact thing to. I just need to find a spare Commodore 1084S D2 monitor. Note it has to be the D1 or D2 varient, as there are a couple 1084 styled monitor from commodore.

 

Look here, someone has already done this:

 

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~startreks/SC1435.html

How do you tell if you have a D1 or D2 monitor? I have my 1084S, but from those pics at the link, mine is different in the back than that one, but maybe it would still work. If I ever come across a SC1435, working or not, I think I'll do this mod(though I dream about having a monitor with XL case stylings). I don't own an XE anymore, right now, someday I will again. I had to sell off part of my collection, but my original dream and intent was to have complete 800, XL and XE "systems" with matching devices and monitors; I will rebuild that dream in time, but now I still have my complete XL system, using my 1084S with chroma/lumina and the stereo output with my Dual-Pokey "Gumby" stereo upgrade! :cool: Truth be told, the 1084's speakers are blown and I actually go through the monitor's inputs and have a self-amplified PC speaker set plugged into the 1084S headphone jack-a very nice set of Harman/Kardon PC speakers I picked up for pocket change at a Goodwill.

Edited by Gunstar
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So I have to ask -what monitor do you feel matches the XL style? Maybe a TI monitor?

 

None. Unless it had the cream/offwhite and brown with silver trim, and the bevelled edges of the XL design, it doesn't match. That's why I said it was a dream of mine. I guess I could paint my 1084S to some extent to match in color, but there's no monitor that I've seen with bevelled edges and brush metal trim. Though I don't recall what a TI monitor looks like, got a pic or link to a pic? I have a TI 99/4A, but just it and the voice synthesis module, no monitor, no drive and it's packed away at the moment. So I'm guessing maybe the TI monitor uses brushed metal trim like the TI 99/4A? Maybe it would make a good match with a little paint.

Edited by Gunstar
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So I have to ask -what monitor do you feel matches the XL style? Maybe a TI monitor?

Maybe Beetle can help you out with some ideas. He has built a number of 'new' Atari's, like a 1250XL (a 1450XL lookalike) and a 600XL derived laptop, from phased out XL casings. The design and build quality of these is stunning. Do a search in this forum and you'll be amazed by the photo's of the works in progress.

 

re-atari

Edited by re-atari
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I seen to remember the last time I had my 1435 open that it has the spots on the board for the extra components they just aren't populated. If you can find a parts sheet for the Philips or Commodore monitor that is the same model you may not have to swap them. The back of the 1435 also has the indents for the extra switches and plugs so it should be fairly easy to drill them out.

 

Mitch

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How do you tell if you have a D1 or D2 monitor? I have my 1084S, but from those pics at the link, mine is different in the back than that one, but maybe it would still work. If I ever come across a SC1435, working or not, I think I'll do this mod(though I dream about having a monitor with XL case stylings). I don't own an XE anymore, right now, someday I will again. I had to sell off part of my collection, but my original dream and intent was to have complete 800, XL and XE "systems" with matching devices and monitors; I will rebuild that dream in time, but now I still have my complete XL system, using my 1084S with chroma/lumina and the stereo output with my Dual-Pokey "Gumby" stereo upgrade! :cool: Truth be told, the 1084's speakers are blown and I actually go through the monitor's inputs and have a self-amplified PC speaker set plugged into the 1084S headphone jack-a very nice set of Harman/Kardon PC speakers I picked up for pocket change at a Goodwill.

 

Yes that is the way it looks on the SC1435, its the same, and all you need to do it drill a few more holes for the extra RCA jacks, Chroma and Luma! The difference between the D1 and D2 is the color, D1 is beige (Amiga 500/2000), D2 is off white (like the Amiga 600, 1200, 4000), otherwise they are the same monitor!

Edited by tjlazer
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A couple of general thoughts... IIRC, Popular Electronics had an RGB to Composite converter article in the late 80's or early 90's. They had a board for it and maybe an entire kit, but it looked like a pretty time-consuming build. Second, the older monitors -- 1802's, 1084's etc have long ago exceeded their expected service lives. You might get one that is a "six-sigma life expectancy" monitor, and then again, you might be like me and get one that lasts about 3 months! If you have room for a CRT monitor, *security monitors* can be a good choice. Some of these can even be successfully used with the XEP80 and have great controls for picture size, etc. Pricey, but perhaps a good choice. Some modern TV's and monitors are (I think) *too good* for our Atari's NTSC band width. While the S-video output on the Atari looks great on an 1802 (etc.), it doesn't look so great on a good TV like a modern Sony or Toshiba 13 or 14" portable. The issue is the vertical lines which I presume are at the color clock locations. Overall on my 14" Toshiba, the Atari composite looks better than the S-video. Not quite so crisp, but far less noticeable vertical bars. Last (finally) the best combination I've ever had is the ATI All-In-Wonder or Hauppage Win-TV cards used with an LCD monitor, and these are scalable displays, also. These are *awesome* if you can be tied to a PC (or Mac?) to use the Atari.

-Larry

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the older monitors -- 1802's, 1084's etc have long ago exceeded their expected service lives. You might get one that is a "six-sigma life expectancy" monitor, and then again, you might be like me and get one that lasts about 3 months!

 

My 1702 is ancient, but still gives me a beautiful picture... I'll keep using it as long as I can. Old electronics like the Atari/Commodore stuff seem to last a lot longer than modern stuff (they were built to last, not to be replaced within 3 years). On the other hand, I've got a 1902 that works, but has a terrible picture :(

 

Some modern TV's and monitors are (I think) *too good* for our Atari's NTSC band width. While the S-video output on the Atari looks great on an 1802 (etc.), it doesn't look so great on a good TV like a modern Sony or Toshiba 13 or 14" portable. The issue is the vertical lines which I presume are at the color clock locations. Overall on my 14" Toshiba, the Atari composite looks better than the S-video. Not quite so crisp, but far less noticeable vertical bars.

 

Maybe it's just me, but Atari composite displays have noticeable "dot crawl" on every monitor I've used. It's really bad on my modern TV (maybe just because the screen is 32", so the dots are larger), but I can see it on the 1702 as well. Dot crawl makes solid-colored horizontal lines look like dotted/dashed lines, and it's *really* ugly looking. S-video (chroma/luma) doesn't have this problem.

 

The s-video vertical bars seem to vary from one Atari to the next... I've got an 800 that doesn't do it at all, and a 1200XL that does (even though it's Clearpic modded), though the bars are very faint and don't bother me at all.

 

Last (finally) the best combination I've ever had is the ATI All-In-Wonder or Hauppage Win-TV cards used with an LCD monitor, and these are scalable displays, also. These are *awesome* if you can be tied to a PC (or Mac?) to use the Atari.

 

Your experience with the TV capture cards is exceptional: on most setups, they look like crap. There's a whole thread about it:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=105926

 

I've only ever tried one TV card (WinTV) with one Atari (XEGS, composite output), and after a couple of days of tweaking it I finally gave up in disgust. The picture was usable I guess, but didn't look anywhere near as clean as the same XEGS plugged into the composite input on the 1702.

 

Being tied to the PC while using the Atari wasn't a big deal for me, since I'm addicted to the SIO2PC...

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So I have to ask -what monitor do you feel matches the XL style? Maybe a TI monitor?

Though I don't recall what a TI monitor looks like, got a pic or link to a pic? I have a TI 99/4A, but just it and the voice synthesis module, no monitor, no drive and it's packed away at the moment. So I'm guessing maybe the TI monitor uses brushed metal trim like the TI 99/4A? Maybe it would make a good match with a little paint.

 

Here it is in the Pic. I have the Zenith version. The there is not any brush metal trim its all paint.

post-7833-1182268601_thumb.jpg

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So I have to ask -what monitor do you feel matches the XL style? Maybe a TI monitor?

Though I don't recall what a TI monitor looks like, got a pic or link to a pic? I have a TI 99/4A, but just it and the voice synthesis module, no monitor, no drive and it's packed away at the moment. So I'm guessing maybe the TI monitor uses brushed metal trim like the TI 99/4A? Maybe it would make a good match with a little paint.

 

Here it is in the Pic. I have the Zenith version. The there is not any brush metal trim its all paint.

 

Actually, I think I was rememberign a particular Sears monitor, but I was unable to find any pictures. I found a pic of the grey/black TI monitor but is would not be a good match for an XL.

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A couple of general thoughts... IIRC, Popular Electronics had an RGB to Composite converter article in the late 80's or early 90's. They had a board for it and maybe an entire kit, but it looked like a pretty time-consuming build. Second, the older monitors -- 1802's, 1084's etc have long ago exceeded their expected service lives. You might get one that is a "six-sigma life expectancy" monitor, and then again, you might be like me and get one that lasts about 3 months! If you have room for a CRT monitor, *security monitors* can be a good choice. Some of these can even be successfully used with the XEP80 and have great controls for picture size, etc. Pricey, but perhaps a good choice. Some modern TV's and monitors are (I think) *too good* for our Atari's NTSC band width. While the S-video output on the Atari looks great on an 1802 (etc.), it doesn't look so great on a good TV like a modern Sony or Toshiba 13 or 14" portable. The issue is the vertical lines which I presume are at the color clock locations. Overall on my 14" Toshiba, the Atari composite looks better than the S-video. Not quite so crisp, but far less noticeable vertical bars. Last (finally) the best combination I've ever had is the ATI All-In-Wonder or Hauppage Win-TV cards used with an LCD monitor, and these are scalable displays, also. These are *awesome* if you can be tied to a PC (or Mac?) to use the Atari.

-Larry

 

I totally agree that banking on old monitors may be unwise, but the point of all this is to get a monitor that exactly matches the system, so most modern options are off the table.

 

As Atari never had even one monitor that matched the XL, I think the XL can never be a complete system. For this reason, even though I owned/loved a 1200XL when it was current, I don't want an XL system. Likewise, since Atari never came out with thier XE monitor, the XE system will always be incomplete in my eyes.

 

The 800 series slightly predates the practice of companies producing thier own monitors. But there were several monitors from third parties that were designed for the new high resolution composite color output if the Apple II, Atari, VIC, Tandy, etc. Some of these were clearly meant to match the Apple II and Atari design (the Atari 800 being very similar to the Apple in form.) IMO the best match for the early Atari 800 or Apple II was the Amdek Color I. When I browse old computer magazines, I see this monitor used in many ads where the vendor wants to show a complete home computer system.

 

As an example, check out this ad I swiped from Atarimania:

post-11578-1182272054_thumb.jpg

Edited by FastRobPlus
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