crash Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 If anyone has a Rev K / K-Series Jaguar for sale, please let me know. Also, if anyone knows how to identify these from their serial number or other external feature, I would appreciate the help. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Unless the serial number label underneath has been scraped off K or M is the very first character of the serial number. Why are you looking for a K series and not M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash Posted July 11, 2007 Author Share Posted July 11, 2007 Greetings, I want to experiment with creating an analog joystick for Battlesphere, although my Jaguar is a later revision that does not have the required A-D converters. I understand that these can be added to later Jaguar model(s), but it will be challenging enough for me to try and figure out the joystick connections and I want to try and eliminate anything that will confound me (any more than usual) Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredifredo Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hello ! Some infos (and pictures) ... in french http://www.yaronet.com/posts.php?h=0&a=56&s=48487#0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I was reading here on AA where someone asked how to tell if you have a analogue capable Jag, and Matthias replied it's not as easy as K or M series separation. He said you actually have to open your Jaguar and check for the analogue chip that they later removed to cut costs. There are pictures on mdgames.de of the board area and parts needed, mostly just a chip and capacitor which is located right behind the port 1 controller. The chip for analogue movement is between two long red capacitor type components behind port 1. So, I was going to open up my K series Jag and make sure this chip is there before I try to use my VD3D flight stick with the analogue BattleSphere code. I have a Jaguar I bought on ebay, that had a little water damage to the mainboard and it would not work with any games, no power. So I threw away the case and kept the board so I can study the Jag mainboard with all the Jaguar documentation to learn about it's components, as I enjoy learning about the hardware aspect of computers, anyway this Jag board is missing the analogue decoding chip behind port 1 and between the two long red components. Matthias Domin is a member here on AA and he's extremely knowledgeable about the Jaguar, especially with hardware, I've learned a lot from him, you may want to check out his website and some of his posts here, his name here he uses is just Matthias, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) Matthias said in regards to the ADC Chip: The easiest and best working method is to open the console and to look at the PCB.From my experience there is no way to detect the ADC-chip without both a test-program and a working analog-input-device. AFAIK you can't tell this exactly from the serial numbers, you need to open the plastic case and look at the PCB. He suggested to have a looksy at his webpage on the ADC: Jaguar analogue - ADC chip You could buy a analogue capable Jaguar controller on ebay from Visual Dimemsions 3D for around $50. Edited July 11, 2007 by ovalbugmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebRmv Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hello ! Some infos (and pictures) ... in french http://www.yaronet.com/posts.php?h=0&a=56&s=48487#0 and the english translation here: http://jagopedia.free.fr/jagopedia/index.p...e=Serial_Number Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredifredo Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 and the english translation here:http://jagopedia.free.fr/jagopedia/index.p...e=Serial_Number Sorry Seb ! it's the second time I forget ps : Va falloir se réveiller le petit Fredifredo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Hello! Matthias said in regards to the ADC Chip: The easiest and best working method is to open the console and to look at the PCB.From my experience there is no way to detect the ADC-chip without both a test-program and a working analog-input-device. AFAIK you can't tell this exactly from the serial numbers, you need to open the plastic case and look at the PCB. Looking at the PCB is IMHO still the best method, looking at the serial number would only work reliable if we would have a good list of Jaguar consoles. None of my own Jaguars have (had) the ADC, the earliest was assembled in June 1994 (K146xxxxxx), but Gunstar said, that his K142xxxxxx (built February 1994) does have the ADC. He suggested to have a looksy at his webpage on the ADC: Jaguar analogue - ADC chip Today i have updated this page, it now shows some screenshots of my testprogram JANALOG.ABS run on a Jaguar with ADC and on another Jaguar without the ADC, as you can see there it is possible (to a certain degree) to use this testprogram to check the existense or the absence of the ADC in a Jaguar. Kind regards Matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 (edited) Hello! Matthias said in regards to the ADC Chip: The easiest and best working method is to open the console and to look at the PCB.From my experience there is no way to detect the ADC-chip without both a test-program and a working analog-input-device. AFAIK you can't tell this exactly from the serial numbers, you need to open the plastic case and look at the PCB. Looking at the PCB is IMHO still the best method, looking at the serial number would only work reliable if we would have a good list of Jaguar consoles. None of my own Jaguars have (had) the ADC, the earliest was assembled in June 1994 (K146xxxxxx), but Gunstar said, that his K142xxxxxx (built February 1994) does have the ADC. He suggested to have a looksy at his webpage on the ADC: Jaguar analogue - ADC chip Today i have updated this page, it now shows some screenshots of my testprogram JANALOG.ABS run on a Jaguar with ADC and on another Jaguar without the ADC, as you can see there it is possible (to a certain degree) to use this testprogram to check the existense or the absence of the ADC in a Jaguar. Kind regards Matthias I've owned 3 K series Jaguar's that have the ADC chip, 1 was a developer Jaguar. I currently just own one K Jaguar with the ADC. Since all of mine have had the ADC and none of Matthias', I'm beginning to wonder it it's a PAL/NTSC thing... But you don't have to take the Jaguar COMPLETELY apart to tell, just take out the four screws and remove the top half of the case, then you can easily see through the powerswitch hole in the metal sheilding and see if the ADC chip is there, it only takes 2 minutes to open it up and then put it back together. I also, at one time was building an analog controller, using a standard Jaguar controller and removing the control pad and install an analog thumbstick in it's place (which requires cutting the digital pad part of the board off and then wiring in the analog thumbstick), But before I had completely finished it (90% done) I had to sell off my Battlesphere cart to pay rent when I was out of work last year. So I still have the controller, but can't finish until I can afford to buy battlespehre again someday. But I do have some pointers from my experience to forewarn CRASH: Battlesphere was desighned to use the analog controller in port 2, and it DOES NOT support the needed keypad, a controller has to be plugged into port 1 to access all controls. My plan, the part I never got too, was to design a splitter cable for the controller so that I could plug it into BOTH controller ports to gain full access to all the controls. Otherwise you will have to use the analog controller and a regualr controller to play the game, which was the original intension of the developers, but I find it cumbersome, which is why I want to create the splitter cable. Just FYI Crash. Edited July 13, 2007 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Didn't know in order to use an analogue controller with BattleSphere that it has to be plugged into port 2 & a regular controller in port 1 for keypad use. Thanks, Gunstar , that's good info to know when I finally do try to use my VD3D Flight Stick w/ BS in analogue mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Rob Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Hey, I have a working K that I'd be willing to trade for another model as long as you pay the shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 You could buy a analogue capable Jaguar controller on ebay from Visual Dimemsions 3D for around $50. Do you mean the Jaguar Extreme 3D joystick? I was under the impression that this is an analog joystick converted to digital so that it would be able to function as a replacement for the Jagpad. I already have a VD3D joystick but am hoping to avoid destroying it for this project In any case, I do have an analog PC joystick that appears to have the right type of potentiometers, so it is all a matter of finding the right Jaguar. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 CRASH: Battlesphere was desighned to use the analog controller in port 2, and it DOES NOT support the needed keypad, a controller has to be plugged into port 1 to access all controls. My plan, the part I never got too, was to design a splitter cable for the controller so that I could plug it into BOTH controller ports to gain full access to all the controls. Otherwise you will have to use the analog controller and a regualr controller to play the game, which was the original intension of the developers, but I find it cumbersome, which is why I want to create the splitter cable. Just FYI Crash. I have seen some discussion of this, so I'll plan to use both controller ports. One big question, will I have to use the ABC buttons on the second pad, or are these supported on port 2? If no buttons can be used on port 2, then I would have to come up with some kind of splitter to get the analog lines from the PC joystick to go to port 2, and the buttons to port 1. I don't mind getting a co-pilot to handle more advanced functions, but I need to at least be able to fire! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 Hey, I have a working K that I'd be willing to trade for another model as long as you pay the shipping. Can you tell me the serial number (or the first 4 characters)? I probably need to find a K142 or K143 series. I have a K144 on the way, but Matthias says my chances with that are 50:50 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 CRASH: Battlesphere was desighned to use the analog controller in port 2, and it DOES NOT support the needed keypad, a controller has to be plugged into port 1 to access all controls. My plan, the part I never got too, was to design a splitter cable for the controller so that I could plug it into BOTH controller ports to gain full access to all the controls. Otherwise you will have to use the analog controller and a regualr controller to play the game, which was the original intension of the developers, but I find it cumbersome, which is why I want to create the splitter cable. Just FYI Crash. I have seen some discussion of this, so I'll plan to use both controller ports. One big question, will I have to use the ABC buttons on the second pad, or are these supported on port 2? If no buttons can be used on port 2, then I would have to come up with some kind of splitter to get the analog lines from the PC joystick to go to port 2, and the buttons to port 1. I don't mind getting a co-pilot to handle more advanced functions, but I need to at least be able to fire! Cheers! As I recall, the A, B&C buttons are supported on port 2, but I'm not 100% on that, it's been a while since I was working on the project and owned BS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 You could buy a analogue capable Jaguar controller on ebay from Visual Dimemsions 3D for around $50. Do you mean the Jaguar Extreme 3D joystick? I was under the impression that this is an analog joystick converted to digital so that it would be able to function as a replacement for the Jagpad. I already have a VD3D joystick but am hoping to avoid destroying it for this project In any case, I do have an analog PC joystick that appears to have the right type of potentiometers, so it is all a matter of finding the right Jaguar. Thanks! Crash, Yes, that's the joystick I was referring to, and I believe you are right about the VD3D Extreme Flight Stick being digital only and therfore probably would not work with the "analogue affair" code in BattleSphere. Matthias Domin has just made a downloadable encrypted JagCD ADC chip testing program and I tested the VD3D flight Stick as well as to see if I have and ADC chip in my Jag. My results are: Yes, I do have an ADC chip in my (see Matthias's thread for serial number) Jag but the flight Stick is not an analogue input device, because it would not move the target around the test area onscreen as a true analogue device would. I have written to Alan Burress (VD3D) to ask if his joysticks are analogue capable and can work with the BattleSphere code; "analogue affair." I'll let you know what he says, but because of the test results, I am leaning towards just digital as you have said above. You should document your proceedures in your endeavor to make a analogue joystick to use with BattleSphere, and when you finish that, you should post the instructions here on AtariAge so myself as well as others can make an analogue controller for BattleSphere use, if any game deserves it, it's BattleSphere. Be sure to check Matthias's new thread here in the Jaguar forum for more info on ADC chip testing and of course you should DL his program, since you must find a Jaguar with this chip to continue developing an analogue controller. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 (edited) Please forgive me for crossposting this from another thread, although since you've requested this info, I hope I won't get slammed: Visual Dimensions confirms: "The joystick is DIGITAL only, all the analog functions have been converted." I think that you would have to completely re-fit this joystick to restore analog functions. From the feel and sound of it, I suspect the analog potentiometers were removed and replaced with arcade leaf switches. I would not recommend attempting to undo the design of this stick, as it would be much easier to buy a Gravis Blackhawk that is unmodified and still has the analog parts. I can't confirm whether this model originally contained Jaguar compatible potentiometers. T-Bird of 4-Play said: -- PC controllers generally have a pot in them that goes from zero to some value (say 10K ohms) with two solder lugs. One for the resistor end and one for the wiper. Jag Analog control uses a 3 lug pot. One end of resistor is ground, the other end is 5V and the wiper goes to the input on the port. Some controllers for PC's use a 3 lug pot and just hook up one and plus the wiper, but I never found any model that you would know for sure had this part in it. If I did, I would have bought a few cases and modded them and sold them. If you want to try it, go ahead. -- also: -- If you have a K-series (ADC) Jaguar you can convert just about any PC analog joystick to work with BattleSphere and/or BattleSphere Gold™, in true Analog mode. It's one of the codes in the game. It works too! I have told several people how to modify joysticks. One fellow said he was going to sell them so I deferred from making my own or publishing plans because I wanted to help him out. This was about 6 weeks ago, but I have not heard anythnig since. Basically, the PC joystick uses a potentiometer where only 2 pins are used: one side and the center wiper. To work on the Jag, the sides of the pot have to be hooked to +5 and GND and the center goes to the analog pin of the joystick port on the Jag. +5---////---GND Input------| (That will probably get messed up in HTML but you get the idea) I don't know the exact pins to hook up right off my head, so someone will have to look it up. There's only 2 input pins on the port, UP/DOWN and LEFT/RIGHT. Hook up each pot and you'll be running. You'll have to use trial and error to figue out which end of each pot is +5 and which is GND because different pots wire them differently and if you get it wrong the only thing which will happen is your directions will be reversed when you play. Just reverse the connections to fix it. Thunderbird -- I'll be working on this when I find a suitable Jaguar, but please be sure to post here if you (anyone) gets an analog stick working on Battlesphere. Edited July 16, 2007 by crash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crash Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 Greetings, I just got the Jaguar unit that I purchased from eBay and I can confirm that it DOES have the ADC IC. Due to problems with my JaguarCD, I can't run the test program right now. Here's my serial number: K144006642 (assembled in April 1994) Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeekGod Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Mine has a slightly older serial than that. K144005502 So it seems like I may have the ADC as well. Aloha, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SINGLE TOOTH Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I have 2 M serial number models here, and both are missing the chip. Are all of the M series missing them? anyone know when they stopped putting it in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovalbugmann Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 I have 2 M serial number models here, and both are missing the chip. Are all of the M series missing them? anyone know when they stopped putting it in? That's exactly why Matthias made the ADC test program on encrypted CD for non-developers and asked people to post their serial numbers with their test results. This way we can get an idea of when they stopped putting in the ADC chip and if it exclusive to the K series Jaguar. We must first gather this information then look at it to see the pattern. I think generally we are looking for the highest serial number that has the ADC chip installed and if they are all K series. We need everyone to run this program if possible and post their results to narrow down the "cut off date" with the smallest amount of leeway between lower serial numbers that do have it and higher serial numbers that don't have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camp Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I like to search for similar threads with existing info instead of posting new duplicate threads with no info. I think this one is similar enough. I am looking to know two things: 1. Is there a way to tell exactly how old a Jaguar console is from the serial number? From what I have read so far in this thread it looks like there is a way, but I don't understand how to tell. 2. What would be an example of the earliest Jaguar console manufactured? I think I have a Jaguar that was one of the first ones manufactured (or really early), but I could be wrong. Just looking for any info on how to tell if mine is. Mine is K13B002119. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonner242 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I guess I have to go check my Jags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jaguar-64bit/Liens/500277ra.pdf K1 = IBM factory, M1= JVC factory xx# = year (so xx4= 1994) xxx# =month (1=Jan, 2=Feb, 9=Sept, A=October, etc) So K13B... means your Jaguar was built in the IBM factory in November 1993. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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