I want to build my own cart for various systems but I do not know how to?

[RegalSin]

1. I have alot of ideas for building carts and making enhancements but I lack the knowledge of tampering with board wires and attaching chips to boards or even slots.

 

2. I am looking for a website or catalog where I can order parts for building all sorts of boards.

 

3. What would I have to take up in order to be able do this for a living.

[+5-11under]

I'm not 100% clear on what you're trying to accomplish...

 

Do you want to be able to program games from scratch, "hack" games (modify the look of them, etc.), or do you want to be able to just make boards/cartridges with existing games, or all of that (or other)? Also, what game consoles are you interested in pursuing?

 

Welcome to AtariAge!

5-11under

[candiru]

I'm not 100% clear on what you're trying to accomplish...

 

Do you want to be able to program games from scratch, "hack" games (modify the look of them, etc.), or do you want to be able to just make boards/cartridges with existing games, or all of that (or other)? Also, what game consoles are you interested in pursuing?

 

Welcome to AtariAge!

5-11under

 

 

Now I'm not saying his intentions are anything less than wholesome, but based on this post . . .

[Quadhorn]

I'm not 100% clear on what you're trying to accomplish...

Aye, man. It'd help to have more details. Are you intended to build and program something like standard game cartridges? Multi-game carts? Re-programmable Flash carts?

 

In general, for the physical building of the cartridges you're going to need to learn how to solder and de-solder through-pin and surface-mount ICs and components.

 

For hacking an existing cartridge you're going to need something like:

* Digital electronics theory, including as a bare minimum dealing with asynchronous logic and parallel EEPROM or NOR RAM devices

* Details of the target console's interface and (if powering the cartridge from the console) available current on the power rail(s)

 

One simple way to reuse through-pin ROM carts is to desolder the exisiting ROM and solder a socket for a compatible programmable memory device in place. Depending on the target console, you'll likely need other small logic devices; e.g. for an Atari2600 cart, EEPROM devices have CS_NOT instead of CS lines, so a NOT gate is required to invert the chip select. To program the memory chips you'll need some kind of Chip Programmer or to build one yourself. Program the chip, put it in the socket, then plug in the console and play.

 

For designing a game cartridge from scratch you're also going to need:

 

* How to read component data sheets, at least to get the info you need

* Power sources i.e. voltage regulators

* PCB design theory and software;

---- "theory" being what's practical in terms of layers, layout, trace widths, grounding and power planes, decoupling ICs, etc.

---- "software" being schematic capture and PCB layout software, like Eagle PCB, OrCad, or the like

* A suitable board house (or local friendly university) to make the PCBs

* Either a lot of money to pay them to mount the components on the PCBs or time and a soldering iron + stand, solder, de-solder wick and possibly a few other things I've forgotten

 

To extend design for a re-programmable cart or other functions, you'll also need to know about some or more of the following, depending on the exact design in mind:

 

* Data interfaces e.g. RS-232, USB

* Microcontrollers; common ones include PICs, 8051-derivatives and ARM processors

---- plus knowledge of their programming language and development environment software in which to write the microcontroller programs and compile them

* Batteries and/or using external DC power supplies (assuming the console can no longer provide enough power)

* Programmable logic: CPLD's and / or FPGAs

---- plus more understanding of synchronous and asynchronous logic design, a high-level logic language like VHDL or Verilog, design and simulator software (often available free from the vendor like with Xilinx or Altera) and some way of programming them (depending on the device and application you may be able to provide an EEPROM or need a JTAG cable)

* Other miscellaneous devices: switches, LEDs, sockets and cables for data interfaces, many others depending on application

 

For a re-programmable cartridge, you'd need to combine appropriate parts of the above to make a non-volatile memory device that the console can read like a normal game cartridge, but which you can connect to a PC (or which can read e.g. an SD card) to upload game data to it.

 

I'm sure there's lots more I've missed, but the above should cover most of the basics.

 

Off the top of my head, Farnell and RS are two of the best known resellers of small volume stuff, but at an expected high price. RS have a slightly more user-friendly website. Both provide all kinds of semiconductor devices, sockets, cables, wiring, everything up to and including small-scale PCB manufacturing sets for hobbyists (if you can afford them).

There are distributors for larger scale sales, like DigiKey and AvNet (one of the cheaper for what I've been looking for so far), but they're more difficult to deal with and likely should be avoided unless you're dealing with large volumes or work for a company that produces electronic devices and know the procurement guy well ennough to get your orders squeezed in with everything else.

 

Some chip manufacturers provide limited samples and / or sell direct, but again often with limits such as minimum quantities. I'll avoid listing companies for now, but I'll suggest some starting points later if you want.

 

3. What would I have to take up in order to be able do this for a living.

 

Eh ... what? Electronics design or making / hacking cartridges for obsolete consoles? Short answer:

For the first the answer would be "an Electronic Engineering degree or similar". For the second the answer would be "you don't; there's not a large enough market to make a living from - we do it for fun".

[Quadhorn]

Now I'm not saying his intentions are anything less than wholesome, but [...]

Meh, too late; I've posted now. We'll see what response we get.

[RegalSin]

I want to build a cartrige and produce it in high numbers and sell it. I have many ideas for cart designs but I am a artist design person not a put a pc together person.

 

If I could what I would do is draw my design and then somebody could tell me what parts I need.

 

obsolete consoles

I disbelief in such ideas. This only occurs with the Tomato Tom"a"to effect.

 

Like If I say "this is greatest thing on earth and can go on forever" and many people cry out for the same thing then it will

 

If somebody says " It is dead in the water and will never float" the more people that crys out this will eventual cause this item to cease.

 

Nothing is obsolete. Money is the problem and that is the truth.

Edited July 24, 2007 by RegalSin

[Shawn]

READ THIS, IT SHOULD GET YOU STARTED:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82555

[BigO]

I want to build a cartrige and produce it in high numbers and sell it. I have many ideas for cart designs but I am a artist design person not a put a pc together person.

 

[...]

 

Nothing is obsolete. Money is the problem and that is the truth.

 

Market size doesn't seem like it would be a problem?

 

Does anyone have the tiniest clue as to how many, say, Atari 2600's are in active use? And beyond that, how many of those users are willing to pay $20+ for a new game for the ol' console? The AA store may be able to sorta-kinda answer the second part, but I don't think you could ever realistically extrapolate those numbers into the market at large. Though, now that I think about it, those numbers might actually be the market at large for 2600 games.

 

I've seen discussions of the cost of producing new Atari cartridge shells. Unless you can come up with some serious economizing, it'll take a whole bunch of sales to cover the cost of tooling and production, even if you use Chinese moldmakers and production facilities.

 

Has anyone actually tried to sell a new game for a retro console through mainstream outlets, i.e. game stores?

 

That reminds me, I need to order a homebrew game or two...

[RegalSin]

That is another problem of getting my goal accomplished but I am not going take nonsence from somebody who is going to be like " no this will not work at all act.

 

I have the basic idea of programming and building my own working cart. If I was in charge of a computer design team I would draw my design and tell them to get on it.

 

I just need instructions and directions of how to get started.

 

I am a Self Proclaimed Artist. I can make anything look anyway I want to given the direction and time.

I am not a programmer of any sort that is why I need instructions.

 

Like many people said before " You need to be able to program to make games" and as I have told them most of the greatest games is made with team effort and a wanting to release something like a gang of musicians creating music.

[Quadhorn]

Ok, this is likely to all sound very patronising and/or insulting from your end. After I put that first reply together, grin and bear it. It's 'cos we can't bounce back-and-forth rapidly as if we were face to face and I want to get the concepts across.

 

I want to build a cartrige and produce it in high numbers and sell it. I have many ideas for cart designs but I am a artist design person not a put a pc together person.

 

If I could what I would do is draw my design and then somebody could tell me what parts I need.

Still clear as mud.

 

"build a cartridge and produce it in high numbers".

Que? A game cart? A flash cart? Do you have a game in mind and want to produce carts of it? Or new hardware, like a new bankswitching method? The way you describe it, it could almost even be a cosmetic design - a new case moulding? Without more information we cannot advise further.

 

"Draw my design and then .."

Uh huh. Not going to happen, just as you say. Many tens or hundreds of hours go into developing even the simplest seeming hardware and games. There is far far more effort involved than coming up with the concept. The concept is the tip of a small ice-berg, perched on top of a much larger iceberg. Picking components comes about half way through said larger ice-berg.

 

Whatever it is, you still need to prototype.

 

obsolete consoles

I disbelief in such ideas.

You go straight on dis-believing. Everyone on here likes retro consoles in some form or another. Many of them are putting many hours and much effort in to making games and hardware. It is a simple fact that very few of those make any money, none make enough to live on. On this I argue from observation not opinion. You may be the first to become truly commercially successful, but to do that you'd have to single-handedly become larger than AtariAge.

 

Like If I say "this is greatest thing on earth and can go on forever" and many people cry out for the same thing then it will

"Here, try this crispy fried Dodo." "Why it's great. I declare we shall eat Dodo forever."

 

Finite numbers are always a problem in any real-world business model, especially "niche" markets like retro gaming. Denying them just results in bankruptcy.

 

Edit:

[...] I am not going take nonsence from somebody who is going to be like " no this will not work at all act.

[...] I just need instructions and directions of how to get started.

If you're going to ignore both what you don't want to hear (that there are practical considerations beyond your belief) and what you did want to hear (the answers to your questions), there's little we can do and little you will do. If you try to follow the conversation and make sense you'll find there are many people happy to help and advise you. Much as they have already tried to do.

Edited July 24, 2007 by Quadhorn

[+remowilliams]

Well, this sounds promising.

 

 

Are people really this thick?

 

 

[Quadhorn]

@remo:

 

Meh, I'm a sucker for trying to help people. There's a guy from work I'm tutoring twice a week for free for his re-sits after he bombed his first year Electronic Engineering. Go figure.

[+remowilliams]

@remo:

 

Meh, I'm a sucker for trying to help people.

Hey, more power to ya. You've got your work cut out.

[+Random Terrain]

Gimme Da Codes!

 

http://www.wendigosoft.com/dblore/dacodez.html

[Quadhorn]

@remo:

Thanks. Next year he's paying, though.

 

@Random:

Ah, that's taken the edge off the need to rant nicely. Cheers. I'll keep in mind if/when Regal posts again.

[Artlover]

Gimme Da Codes!

 

http://www.wendigosoft.com/dblore/dacodez.html

Dear lord, I couldn't even finish. Some people really are just to f'in stupid for their own good.

[RegalSin]

The concept is the tip of a small ice-berg, perched on top of a much larger iceberg.

 

The concept is all that matters to me. I would come into a room promote my creation. Draw a design then the person who builds chipsets and boards would do all the technical stuff. Then we would start using whatever the device is going to be used for.

 

About programming and computers I am not an idiot. I am the person who rather dump all these tech guys in a pit and replace them with a automated instruction system or a pop up flash that guides you threw the process. I walk into a store I laugh at the stuff they offer me.

 

I recover my own data, I edit my own settings from

 

If somebody gave me enough funding, correct tools, and reference materials I

could program and build machienery from scratch. With a couple of Computer Archtechs on baord and programmers I could do it even faster.

 

Wow wonderful I discovered the area of study I am in uses Apples oh wow now I have to learn how to navigate Apples to aviod having the so called tech guy come in and jutter the mouse port.

 

I am a self proclaimed Artist and my job title is "Graphic Design major" . I make a carrer out of representation into animation and identifiying various subjects to make my owrk easier. I purpose we can create devices or a device that will allow play of other programs for the X system that would shock the world of 2d and maybe even help cripple the Oiga world of 3d.

Edited July 25, 2007 by RegalSin

[+Random Terrain]

I juggle graphics in a pit of robotic monkeys. The 3D Ouija board from the land of phlegm castrates my imagination. If someone would give me a million dollars I could dongle my widget from the tipple before rancid snozberries envision marmalade nightmares.

[jsoper]

Whoa, this thread just gave me a "cart before the horse" flashback:

USENET POST

He sure got some major talent to respond.

[Quadhorn]

I recover my own data, I edit my own settings from

"I forget what I'm saying mid sentence even when typing and I'm either too dumb / deluded to listen to other people or intentionally wasting their time." Aye, we get it.

 

People of the AtariAge forum, I have tried, but here I draw the line. If Regal wants free crispy fried Dodo he can get it from someone else. For people not Regal, I shall return to lurking and occassionally providing bits of information and advice where I think I can help.

[+5-11under]

If somebody gave me enough funding, correct tools, and reference materials I

could program and build machienery from scratch.

This is your lucky day! Fortunately for you, the correct tools and reference materials (plus training materials) for programming Atari 2600 (and several other consoles) are readily available, either from AtariAge or other sources that can be reached from Google. All or most are available for free, so no funding is required.

 

I look forward to seeing your creations. Feel free to post links to them here.

 

Thanks,

5-11under

[Bruce Tomlin]

Whoa, this thread just gave me a "cart before the horse" flashback:

USENET POST

He sure got some major talent to respond.

Oh man, Paul Allen sPanks. (or Paul Allen Wanks if you drive on the left side of the road) That brings back some memories.

 

Thanks a lot, now I have to wash my brain out with soap to get the memories to go away.

 

He actually got Clint Dyer in on the project without having a programmer or presumably any clue on the 2600 limitations? And Jim Nitchals commented in that thread? Okay, that cancels out the sPanks memories. Too bad jimn8 passed away back in '99 or so.

 

Knowing the limits, and tricks of the 2600 is key to any game development. Drawing out room maps without knowing the intimate details of "playfield" registers or "reflected playfield" techniques seems like putting the cart somewhat before the horse.

The same applies for cartridges to those who have no idea about how the slot signals for various systems work, much less any idea what Tri-State means.

 

And I am Allowed to make all the disparaging comments I want, having made the 7800 board in the recent Missing in Action release, and a Sega Genesis board that is waiting for me to finish a game for it.

 

EDIT: Wow, Kevin Horton actually thought the NES used a 9938 back then? And there I was (sort of) thinking about an RPG for the Colecovision nine years before I would actually try.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Bruce Tomlin

[+remowilliams]

Wow wonderful I discovered the area of study I am in uses Apples oh wow now I have to learn how to navigate Apples to aviod having the so called tech guy come in and jutter the mouse port.

Oh freddled gruntbuggly,

Thy micturations are to me

As plurdled gabbleblotchits

On a lurgid bee.

Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes

And hooptiously drangle me

With crinkly bindlewurdles,

Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon,

See if I don't!

[Shawn]

1. I have alot of ideas for building carts and making enhancements but I lack the knowledge of tampering with board wires and attaching chips to boards or even slots.

 

2. I am looking for a website or catalog where I can order parts for building all sorts of boards.

 

3. What would I have to take up in order to be able do this for a living.

 

Well if your so sure your gonna make big bucks off your idea's just send me $15 thousand dollars to cover half of my time and I will program your game to your specifications and then afterward we can work out a price for making your carts for you also.

[jaybird3rd]

I think we've found another case like the infamous HardWork, 2600khz, and all the other Leonardo da Vinci wannabes who have come and gone over the years. The people may be different, but the pattern is always the same: they have never designed a game in their lives, have no programming experience of any kind, know nothing about electronics, show no evidence that they have any particular aptitude or talent in any of these areas, and haven't the slightest clue about where to even begin. Yet these are the same people who have somehow convinced themselves: 1) that they are capable of undertaking some massive game design project that is bigger/better than anything anyone has done before, 2) that the Atari 2600 of all things is the appropriate platform for their creative genius, and 3) that they can orchestrate a one-man development, manufacturing, and distribution powerhouse and somehow be successful enough to get rich selling their own games.

 

Why does this happen over and over again? What unfulfilled needs or other life issues could drive someone to that level of denial? And what is about the Atari 2600 in particular that seems to attract these people like flies to a bug zapper?

 

Somebody should really write a paper about it because there must be a fascinating psychological study in there somewhere.