The Last Ninja is as short as Airlock

[+Propane13]

Hi All,

 

I went to CGExpo, fully intent on picking up Lasercase, and I went home empty-handed.

The last copy was sold out about 5 minutes before I got there on Saturday.

 

So, I went for a backup, and stopped by the Atari2600.com booth.

They had 2 games there-- N.E.R.D.S and "The Last Ninja".

After trying N.E.R.D.S., I thought it looked like a hack of Space Chase.

I couldn't tell if it was original or not (it might be, someone can correct me), but it just didn't appear fun to me.

 

"The Last Ninja", however, had great promise.

I played for a few minutes, and realized that it was ok. So, I picked it up.

 

I got home last night, anf after playing for a few minutes, I realized that something was wrong.

I killed a ninja, and a ghost ninja came back to haunt me. He was un-killable.

This was a neat feature, so I turned to my instruction manual-- and this wasn't in there.

Ok, neat feature, and not documented. That's ok by me.

 

I walked around the maze, and found the secret "super-shuriken" after about 3 minutes. Then, in about 10 minutes total, I finished the game.

 

There are only 16 rooms, and if you pick up the Super-Shuriken, you pretty much are guaranteed to win.

 

After you win, that's it. No new levels.

There's also no randomization to the boards-- it's always the same 16-room arena, and the Emperor is always in the same spot.

 

So, I'm wondering-- what happened?

I had high expectations for this game, and it's almost as short as Airlock. I can beat it in under 2 minutes, and now I have no desire to ever play it again. So, was there a schedule pressure? ROM-space limitation?

Some banklswitching and additional levels would have made this game amazing. But, without that, it's just 5-minutes of play, with no repeatability.

 

I guess this is just more proof that you have to test your games in the community before releasing.

"Secret" releases are just poorly tested, and tend to lack the fun and value that a community-tested version could have.

 

Does anyone else feel the same way?

 

Regards,

-John

[Nognir]

oh wow..

 

I also wanted to pick up the games as soon as they are available online. Maybe I should think about it. Is NERDS really no fun?

[4ever2600]

Lasercade is a GREAT game, I did have the opportunity to pick up one and it's ADDICTING! No shortage of gameplay there... I have to admit, I think it was the best release there... I did play the other two NERDS and Last Ninja, I enjoyed both of them, Ninja was a little short, but still fun... Both are BBasic games I think, not hacks. Box and docs for ALL games were VERY good...

[MagMax667]

Just curious, how much did these three games go for at the show? (The Last Ninja, NERDS, and Lasercade)

[Snider-man]

Just curious, how much did these three games go for at the show? (The Last Ninja, NERDS, and Lasercade)

$40 for all three. Lasercade is worth twice that. The other two....errr...

 

I wouldn't say that all homebrews should be reviewed, assessed, tweaked, and otherwise commented on by the public before release. (Too much of a "design by committee" feel for my tastes.) And "surprise" releases are more fun to discover than a game you've been playtesting and discussing for 2 years prior to release. But both NERDS and Ninja feel too "unpolished" to match the high production values of the box and art. They just felt rushed, I guess.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Snider-man

[Impaler_26]

Damn, The Last Ninja seemed to be an interesting game but as it seems by your description it's like Venture - fun to play but way too short. Too Bad...

[godzillajoe]

Bummer I really wanted to get N.E.R.D.S.

[+Nathan Strum]

But both NERDS and Ninja feel too "unpolished" to match the high production values of the box and art. They just felt rushed, I guess.

[sarcasm]But they were "exclusive limited edition releases"! Isn't that an automatic hallmark of quality? Doesn't that, in and of itself, make them worth buying? Who needs gameplay, if they're worth slightly more to some collectors than other games?[/sarcasm]

 

I would've bought them myself, but my money is also "limited edition".

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I wouldn't say that all homebrews should be reviewed, assessed, tweaked, and otherwise commented on by the public before release. (Too much of a "design by committee" feel for my tastes.)

Sure, but at least a few playtesting people should be involved. Often as a programmer you are way too much concentrating on implementation details and not for the gameplay anymore.

[MagMax667]

What a shame. The Last Ninja, in particular, really had me excited. It had so much potential.

 

By the way, does anyone know where I can find a picture of the Last Ninja box art? It's not up on Atari2600.com.

[MagMax667]

By the way, does anyone know if these games were completely sold out at the show? I e-mailed customer service at atari2600.com about this a couple of weeks ago, and he said that any remaining stock of these games would be sold through the website. Although, to tell you the truth, I'm not really sure I want a copy anymore, especially if it costs $40.

[Snider-man]

I wouldn't say that all homebrews should be reviewed, assessed, tweaked, and otherwise commented on by the public before release. (Too much of a "design by committee" feel for my tastes.)

Sure, but at least a few playtesting people should be involved. Often as a programmer you are way too much concentrating on implementation details and not for the gameplay anymore.

 

Oh, absolutely. No question. Some input, advice, playtesting, etc. is always needed. You can't program/design in a vacuum without ANY input. You need folks to help you find bugs, suggest gameplay improvements, and the like. But I'd prefer a small group of experts/friends who can keep the existance of the game quiet for the "grand reveal" rather than just tossing the undeveloped ROM out there and asking for any and all comments. That's just me though. But I agree that a one-man show will miss a lot of important details and bugs that should be addresed prior to a mass release.

[BydoEmpire]

I really enjoyed the couple games of The Last Ninja I played at CGE. What there is of it is really well done. It would have been nice if the game had some randomization, or if the game started over a bit faster once you 'beat' it.

 

Speaking of Venture - I finally picked up Venture II, and I'm definitely enjoying it!

[MagMax667]

Well, it appears that both of these games are now being sold online at atari2600.com. I was thinking about buying a copy, but after reading the previous reviews, and considering that these games are $40 plus shipping, it just doesn't seem worth it.

[Atari2600.com]

Thank you for your reviews of our recent release of Atari 2600 The Last Ninja, which is now available for purchase through our online store. I'd like to offer some responses to a few comments.

 

So, I'm wondering-- what happened?

I had high expectations for this game, and it's almost as short as Airlock. I can beat it in under 2 minutes, and now I have no desire to ever play it again. So, was there a schedule pressure? ROM-space limitation?

Some banklswitching and additional levels would have made this game amazing. But, without that, it's just 5-minutes of play, with no repeatability.

I guess this is just more proof that you have to test your games in the community before releasing.

"Secret" releases are just poorly tested, and tend to lack the fun and value that a community-tested version could have.

 

>>Perhaps with exploration and level mapping the first Emperor can be defeated in 2 minutes, but it will take you some time to achieve this proficiency. Beyond the first Emperor the game increases in difficulty which extends the replay value of the game too.

>>Ninja was developed and tested by a team which includes two professional game developers. We're happy with the results our team achieved with Ninja and NERDS so community testing is unlikely with our future projects.

 

Box and docs for ALL games were VERY good...

 

>>Thanks. Did you know the game programmers were also responsible for the box art? Each box includes a slide out cartridge tray which is new for us too.

 

But both NERDS and Ninja feel too "unpolished" to match the high production values of the box and art. They just felt rushed, I guess.

 

>>Both games were produced in approximately 3 months. Neither game was rushed but we did experience programming challenges requiring effective work arounds. Some of these work arounds were compromises to our original concept but most were implemented effectively.

 

they were "exclusive limited edition releases

 

>>Not correct. Both NERDS and Ninja are regular production titles which we debuted at CGE. Show attendees had the opportunity to purchase 1 of 20 Special Editions which are different from the original games in game play, weapon use and game pace. Has anyone played both original and SE versions of NERDS and NINJA?

 

Some input, advice, playtesting, etc. is always needed. You can't program/design in a vacuum without ANY input.

 

>>Both games were extensively tested in a team environment, no vacuum. We tend to keep development projects close to the vest and perhaps this difference creates the impression of an individual effort. For example the NERDS instruction manual credits six people directly involved with that game, others assisted with production and manufacturing.

 

Look for a new Atari 2600 video game from Atari2600.com in December 2007.

 

JC

Atari2600.com

[+Nathan Strum]

they were "exclusive limited edition releases

>>Not correct. Both NERDS and Ninja are regular production titles which we debuted at CGE. Show attendees had the opportunity to purchase 1 of 20 Special Editions which are different from the original games in game play, weapon use and game pace.

I'm confused. Does that mean then the 20 Special Editions sold at CGE weren't exclusive limited edition releases then? Or does that mean the regular production run is unlimited?

 

The CGExpo blurb about the games seem to describe them as being limited editions and exclusive:

 

From CGExpo's site: "Atari2600.com Announces Three Exclusive CGE releases for Atari Systems

We are proud to announce that Atari2600.com will be releasing 3 brand new games at CGE2K7. The first is Rent Wars for the Atari 5200 which will only have 100 copies produced. Two VCS titles N.E.R.D.S and The Last Ninja will have only 150 copies produced of each title. Each game will come serialized along with a label, box, and manual. There are no preorders, and quantities are limited!"

 

 

Thus my confusion.

 

 

Also, from the Atari2600.com news page: "N.E.R.D.S has been produced in a total quantity of 150 serialized games." and "The Last Ninja has been produced in a total quantity of 150 serialized games."

 

And from another thread: "Atari 2600 N.E.R.D.S was produced in a quantity of 130 examples and 20 Special Editions. All Special Editions sold out during the Expo. Approximately 70 N.E.R.D.S games are available for purchase.

 

Atari 2600 The Last Ninja was produced in a quantity of 130 examples and 20 Special Editions. All Special Editions sold out during the Expo. Approximately 60 The Last Ninja games are available for purchase."

 

 

That seems like a limited edition to me. Or is will more be made when these are gone?

[Mayhem]

Btw how do you reach other difficulty levels in Last Ninja? Once you beat the game, I can only hit reset to proceed and go back to the title screen...

[Atari2600.com]

Our initial plans to serialize all N.E.R.D.S and The Last Ninja (TLN) games were changed prior to release. However, all Rent Wars games are serialized both on the game title screen and on the box.

 

I guess the proper description for both NERDS and TLN is limited production. Only 150 total of each game were produced. The 20 NERDS and 20 TLN Special Editions were not announced prior to CGE. All SE games carry a yellow banner on the box which also contains the SE serial number. Sale of the SE versions was limited to one per customer. The SE versions are also exclusive because they sold out to show attendees during CGE. Hope this helps.

 

While both NERDS and TLN are not serialized, the economics of scale for box printing is a very good assurance that no additional games beyond the 150 will ever be produced. If our games were game cartridge and manual only, and not serialized, then additional production would be cost effective and easy which isn't the case here. No additional games will be produced.

 

JC

Atari2600.com

 

they were "exclusive limited edition releases

>>Not correct. Both NERDS and Ninja are regular production titles which we debuted at CGE. Show attendees had the opportunity to purchase 1 of 20 Special Editions which are different from the original games in game play, weapon use and game pace.

I'm confused. Does that mean then the 20 Special Editions sold at CGE weren't exclusive limited edition releases then? Or does that mean the regular production run is unlimited?

 

The CGExpo blurb about the games seem to describe them as being limited editions and exclusive:

 

From CGExpo's site: "Atari2600.com Announces Three Exclusive CGE releases for Atari Systems

We are proud to announce that Atari2600.com will be releasing 3 brand new games at CGE2K7. The first is Rent Wars for the Atari 5200 which will only have 100 copies produced. Two VCS titles N.E.R.D.S and The Last Ninja will have only 150 copies produced of each title. Each game will come serialized along with a label, box, and manual. There are no preorders, and quantities are limited!"

 

 

Thus my confusion.

 

 

Also, from the Atari2600.com news page: "N.E.R.D.S has been produced in a total quantity of 150 serialized games." and "The Last Ninja has been produced in a total quantity of 150 serialized games."

 

And from another thread: "Atari 2600 N.E.R.D.S was produced in a quantity of 130 examples and 20 Special Editions. All Special Editions sold out during the Expo. Approximately 70 N.E.R.D.S games are available for purchase.

 

Atari 2600 The Last Ninja was produced in a quantity of 130 examples and 20 Special Editions. All Special Editions sold out during the Expo. Approximately 60 The Last Ninja games are available for purchase."

 

 

That seems like a limited edition to me. Or is will more be made when these are gone?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

If our games were game cartridge and manual only, and not serialized, then additional production would be cost effective and easy which isn't the case here. No additional games will be produced.

Why not changing the packaging after the boxed ones are sold out?

 

Or will the games then maybe become available through other sales channels?

[Atari2600.com]

Interesting.

I'd estimate that the remaining stock on hand of both titles will take many months, upward to one year, to completely sell out. If correct, then the initial quantity of 150 each will be sufficient to meet current and long term demand. There would be very little demand for a re-release of the game.

 

Re-releasing the game with revised packaging just doesn't seem to make economic sense. While technically possible, the likelihood is extremely remote.

 

The games will only be offered through Atari2600.com, and I suppose other resellers/ebay/etc.

 

JC

Atari2600.com

 

 

If our games were game cartridge and manual only, and not serialized, then additional production would be cost effective and easy which isn't the case here. No additional games will be produced.

Why not changing the packaging after the boxed ones are sold out?

 

Or will the games then maybe become available through other sales channels?

[+Propane13]

Btw how do you reach other difficulty levels in Last Ninja? Once you beat the game, I can only hit reset to proceed and go back to the title screen...

 

That's my question too. From what I see, it just ends.

Perhaps it was supposed to get more difficult, but that feature wasn't implemented?

 

-John

[+Propane13]

>>Perhaps with exploration and level mapping the first Emperor can be defeated in 2 minutes, but it will take you some time to achieve this proficiency. Beyond the first Emperor the game increases in difficulty which extends the replay value of the game too.

>>Ninja was developed and tested by a team which includes two professional game developers. We're happy with the results our team achieved with Ninja and NERDS so community testing is unlikely with our future projects.

 

Ok, I did this again last night. 2 minutes. And, it took me 10 minutes on the first day to get to that proficiency. No mapping is really required, as it's a 4x4 grid, which is really tiny (Phantom/Pirate is bigger).

 

I waited on the last screen for about 4 minutes, listening to the tones of music-- and nothing. It just locks up. Difficulty switches, joystick pushing (including buttons), select, and color/B/W do nothing. The only thing that does anything at this point is the reset switch, which brings it back to the title screen. And, from there, if you start the game again, it's the same layout, and the exact same difficulty. So, the increased difficulty factor really isn't true.

 

Don't get me wrong-- I *could* like this game. I want to make it clear that I respect homebrewers, and really am glad for what they have done (heck, a few years ago, I was one myself, and my game isn't even that great, especially when compared to today's releases-- wow!). This game has a LOT of promising elements, which is what made me buy it at the expo. I think it was a good concept, but the longevity rating is only about a 1 out of 10. There's no reason for me to ever play it again (except for the discussion in this thread). Had there been 8 levels, I would have fallen in love with this game-- especially if when you died, you had to restart at level 1. Or, had each level been randomly generated, I would have fallen in love with this game. That's why I was excited after my 2-minute trial at the CGExpo. But, then I was disappointed at home because I thought there was definitely great care put into this game, but the replay factor simply isn't there at all.

 

To be completely honest, a piece of me wants to disassemble this and give it that small piece of polish that would make this simply amazing. But, I know that would step on a lot of people's toes, especially the programmer. So, all I can do is hope and wait for a sequel that'll make me reach for it again and again.

 

Sorry if I sound like a downer-- I just feel disappointed that there's so much in here, yet it doesn't seem to be used to its fullest potential.

 

Thanks!

-John

[godzillajoe]

So how many homebrews are Bb games?

 

No offense but they all seem to be....ahem......"basic"

[Jess Ragan]

The latest batch of homebrews have been mostly Batari BASIC titles. There are a few exceptions, however, including Ladybug, Hunchback, and Strat-O-Gems.

 

Maybe there IS a glut of Batari BASIC titles, but don't blame the language for their deficiencies. Bb is a lot more versatile and powerful than most people realize. I mean, did you see that Mega Man game? It wasn't much to look at, but it was still very impressive for bringing the gameplay of the NES favorite to a far less capable machine.

 

JR

[Impaler_26]

So how many homebrews are Bb games?

 

No offense but they all seem to be....ahem......"basic"

 

bB games released on cartridge so far (afaik):

 

- Solar Plexus

- Phantom II/Pirate

- GoSub

- Alien Greed

- Travi 7800

- Wumpus Hunt (though afaik only 1 "prize cartridge" was made)

- The Last Ninja and N.E.R.D.S from Atari2600.com look like they were made with bB

 

And there are a lot of interesting WIPs in the bB-forum as well as (more or less) finished games.

 

The graphics of bB-games maybe not as nice and colorful as in some more "advanced" homebrews like Strat-O-Gems deluxe, Lady Bug or Medieval Mayhem but for me it's the gameplay that counts.

IMO a bB-game can be as much fun as one programmed in assembly, just depends if i like the gameplay or not.

 

And also not all the homebrews made in assembly are fun to play...