5200 controller input malfuntion

[SINGLE TOOTH]

Alright. I got this 4porter that will not respond to any joystick commands. It wants to constantly go to the right. Its not the controller. (I have another 5200 to test on). Also, adjusting the controller pot adjustment on the motherboard does nothing. Any suggestions?

 

Otherwise, what chip controls the joysticks? I may be able to swap the chip.

 

**Edit**

I forgot to mention, the keypad and start buttons work

Edited August 26, 2007 by SINGLE TOOTH

[Artlover]

Alright. I got this 4porter that will not respond to any joystick commands. It wants to constantly go to the right. Its not the controller. (I have another 5200 to test on). Also, adjusting the controller pot adjustment on the motherboard does nothing. Any suggestions?

 

Otherwise, what chip controls the joysticks? I may be able to swap the chip.

4052's.

[SINGLE TOOTH]

Alright. I got this 4porter that will not respond to any joystick commands. It wants to constantly go to the right. Its not the controller. (I have another 5200 to test on). Also, adjusting the controller pot adjustment on the motherboard does nothing. Any suggestions?

 

Otherwise, what chip controls the joysticks? I may be able to swap the chip.

4052's.

If those are the ones right above the controller ports, there are 5 of them? Damn

[BigO]

Alright. I got this 4porter that will not respond to any joystick commands. It wants to constantly go to the right. Its not the controller. (I have another 5200 to test on). Also, adjusting the controller pot adjustment on the motherboard does nothing. Any suggestions?

 

Otherwise, what chip controls the joysticks? I may be able to swap the chip.

4052's.

If those are the ones right above the controller ports, there are 5 of them? Damn

 

I was going to say that if it's the first port that's not responding, try switching out U9 and U11 first. But, I just looked at the schematic again and I think it might not be the 4052's. The joystick pots don't connect through the 4052's like the buttons do.

 

The joystick pots (controller pins 10 and 11) connect directly to the POKEY chip (U7: C012294). Pin 9 of the controller looks like it would be a supply voltage for those circuits. When you vary the joystick centering pot as you mentioned, you should see that voltage on pin 9 change (though I'm not sure how much).

 

If I were having this problem and had a spare, I'd try swapping out the POKEY as it's a simple thing to do since it's most likely socketed.

 

If the POKEY doesn't do the trick, the problem is probably in the circuit that feeds pin 9. There's a handful of transistors and resistors to deal with there. That section of the schematic is in the lower left hand corner of the I/O schematic found in the archives.

 

If this voltage supply circuit is the problem, the joysticks will not respond on any of the ports as the one circuit feeds all 4 ports.

Edited August 26, 2007 by BigO

[SINGLE TOOTH]

Heres from the FAQ:

 

4.5 -- 5200 CONTROLLER PINOUT

-----------------------------

 

Pin Function

 

1 Keypad -- right column

2 Keypad -- middle column

3 Keypad -- left column

4 Start, Pause and Reset column

5 Keypad -- third row and reset

6 Keypad -- second row and pause

7 Keypad -- top row and Start

8 Keypad -- bottom row

9 Pot common

10 Horizontal Pot (POT0, 2, 4, 6)

11 Vertical Pot (POT1, 3, 5, 7)

12 5 Volts DC

13 Bottom side buttons

14 Top side buttons

15 0 volts -- ground

 

This one says pin 9 is the common... I put a multimeter on it, just to check, and didn't get any voltage, but got ground.

I swapped out the pokey chip to no avail.

 

**Edit**

I'm a dumbass, I got the pinout reversed. I forgot the female connector on the motherboard counts 12345678 and the controller plug counts 87654321.

Anyway, I got no reading on pin 9 of the motherboard.

Edited August 26, 2007 by SINGLE TOOTH

[Artlover]

I was going to say that if it's the first port that's not responding, try switching out U9 and U11 first. But, I just looked at the schematic again and I think it might not be the 4052's. The joystick pots don't connect through the 4052's like the buttons do.

I have delt with 4052 failure 3 times, and the results I got were exactly the same as Single Tooth's, player moves right, nothing (or virtualy nothing) on the controller responds. Replacing the 4052 fixes the problem. There are like a half a dozen of these threads here, and they always come back to the 4052 as being the cause 99% of the time.

 

I know it's not support by the schematics from a logic standpoint, but what I think is happening is because keypad i/o is messed up from a bad 4052, it's canceling something out on the pokey side of things to make the control pots non responcive as well.

[SINGLE TOOTH]

I was going to say that if it's the first port that's not responding, try switching out U9 and U11 first. But, I just looked at the schematic again and I think it might not be the 4052's. The joystick pots don't connect through the 4052's like the buttons do.

I have delt with 4052 failure 3 times, and the results I got were exactly the same as Single Tooth's, player moves right, nothing (or virtualy nothing) on the controller responds. Replacing the 4052 fixes the problem. There are like a half a dozen of these threads here, and they always come back to the 4052 as being the cause 99% of the time.

 

I know it's not support by the schematics from a logic standpoint, but what I think is happening is because keypad i/o is messed up from a bad 4052, it's canceling something out on the pokey side of things to make the control pots non responcive as well.

 

Is there a certain 4051 to replace? Where on the board is it?

I did try searching, but the threads I saw never got resolved.

[Prodos8]

I'd start by replacing the 4052 for the first port, the one your trying to use. On the schem, though, it looks like the pot lines (pins 10 & 11) are wired directly to the pokey, they don't go thru any of the 4052s. Neither is the pot common. Pulling right is like having no controller plugged in.

 

Have you checked for a broken solder joint? Can you move up and down? Or, have you tried to play a two player game and play the second player?

[BigO]

So, there's a failure mode for one or more of the 4052's that will allow all buttons to be read, but no joystick response. Thanks for that info. That's very good to know for possible future reference.

 

It certainly is possible that a 4052 is doing something with the POKEY and controlling joystick input reading that I'm not seeing. (I've been working with the 4 port schematic while repairing on my 2 port machine so was focusing on working around those differences. I need to find the 2 port schematic.)

 

The 4052's are socketed on the 4 port board I have here, so they should be easy to change.

It's also possible that I misread the schematic and pin 9 is being supplied with a sort of ground reference instead of variable positive voltage, but the capacitors to ground on pin 9 make me think it's a supply voltage. I'd be happy to read any sort of circuit operation description that anyone can share. I'll take a look around here to see what I can find to educate myself with.

 

I'm going on one day's experience repairing one unit that didn't have the same problem, so definitely listen to the people with more experience. Swap out the 4052's one at a time until you've found the problem. I'd be interested in hearing which chip was the problem. I'll never get rich repairing 5200's if I don't understand how they work.

Edited August 26, 2007 by BigO

[Artlover]

**Edit**

I forgot to mention, the keypad and start buttons work

Ah, didn't see this edit before. This does makes things a tad different now.

 

I did try searching, but the threads I saw never got resolved.

There are a couple, but they didn't have direct follow ups (ApolloBoy for one). However, see above, different problem.

 

So, there's a failure mode for one or more of the 4052's that will allow all buttons to be read, but no joystick response. Thanks for that info. That's very good to know for possible future reference.

Let me take a step back and say don't quote me on that. Didn't notice the original message was edited later to mention keypad/buttons worked. In my case, most of the keypad buttons didn't work either. To this end, I will, from a matter of personal experience only, stand by my statement in suggesting a bunch of bad data/signal state dumping out on K1-k5 & KR1-KR2 might be putting the pokey in some weird state that mucks everything up. That doesn't seem to be the case here however.

 

Is there a certain 4051 to replace? Where on the board is it?

In lieu of the keypad/start row working (and I assume fire buttons too?), it sounds like the 4052's might not be the issue here. What about the other 3 ports? Do they share the same results?

 

4052's, if you want to try changing them, well, I would do all 5 (U9-U13) because all of them connect to the keyboard lines, AND the 4 ports are unevenly paired across them (U9 for J1 & J2, U10 for J3 & J4, U11 for J1& J3, U12 for J2 & J4, U13 for all 4). If my personal experience based assumption of bad keyboard input mucking up the pokey on a whole has any validity, then anyone of them could possibly be the cause because of that.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Artlover

[BigO]

SINGLE TOOTH, have you had any luck fixing this problem or figured out more about it? Just curious to know what it was.