(re)build a *NEW* Atari Computer?

[tcropper]

Ok everyone. Looks like atarimuseum.com has a good hold of the Atari prototypes (like the 1450XL) that have both the Atari chips and with IBM compatibility, why doesn't someone take that to a manufacturer and see the cost to produce a few thousand of those units? I would surely take one! I still think that an American-built computer, built here in the USA would appeal to lots of folks.

 

There are also lots of you with good ideas. So why has anyone not put it all together and started building Atari's again?

[danwinslow]

Because its hard and expensive, and the potential market is maybe 300 or so assorted geeks.

[Marius]

And besides of the costs....

 

What do you think of copyright issues of the design of the PCB and the case etc.?

 

It is already an issue of using the XL/XE OS ROM in emulators... So reproducing atari computers must lead to same troubles.

 

And last... I think only the already existing hardware gives the unique feel of the atari. Even a remake of an atari 800xl would not give the real feel I think... (unless it is really a 100% copy with same chipset etc)

 

But who is going to make new GTIA's, ANTIC's, POKEY's and all that custom stuff?

 

And who has blueprints of those chips to remake them?

 

Marius

[peteym5]

I am not sure you have to worry about copyright and patent issues with duplicating computer technology 20 years old. The Atari computer division went out of business around 1993 and they only seem to be manufacturing games for other platforms since. I am not sure how long their patent lasts or if anyone would even be interested in coming after you with a lawsuit.

 

I have been looking at the ideal of building a new Atari computer with a 65816 cpu at much higher speed, use simm memory. I am looking at the ideal of enhancing the Antic, GTIA, and Pokey chips capable of keeping up with the 16bit cpu. Might have a source for schematics and still waiting to see if someone can build one. I would keep it as backward compatible as possible, but make a new IO portion of the operating system to support hard drives (or cd/dvd), to store all your old games instead of 100s of floppies.

[Tickled_Pink]

I've had similar pipe dreams. There is a potential market beyond the '300 or so geeks'. Or at least there would have been, say, 5 years ago. I've long since considered that some old hardware designs could make a comeback as low-cost children's educational systems, like the V-Tech range. However, even the Leapster portable is more advanced than the A8, so that idea is now dead in the water.

[MEtalGuy66]

the enormous cost of injection molding (and the complete lack of any available alternative) is the main factor.

 

Theres absolutely nothing stopping anyone from making an updated board that fists in existing available cases. In fact, Mega-hz was making one that fit the 800XL case.

[tcropper]

I agree with you. Atari is dead as far as manufacturing computers. I would present the idea to them that they could support development with funds, people, etc., or have then sign a waiver that they were not interested, and no lawsuits. Either they are interested or not, end of story.

 

Secondly, this would need to be a new computer, utilizing a chipset that would be similiar to the Atari's or as close as possible. At least have it like the 1450XL. And it would have the same look and feel. THAT would be an absolutely necessary for it to be a success.

 

Thirdly, I think there are many of us that are soooo tired of the endless same old PC crap that everyone else is drumming away on. I want something new and fresh to play with, but with some of that old school feel, that would foster user groups, bbses, etc, like we used to do in the 80's.

 

I see someone has this project started? How can I help?

[Goochman]

2 words for you all:

 

Flashback 3!

 

Maybe

[Scream And Fly]

I see someone has this project started? How can I help?

 

Open your wallet wide.

[tcropper]

First, I think we need to look at a low-cost "game/home computer" like the original Atari is/was. Second, let's curb our "power Atari" needs down to just getting something that is functional, new, and low cost. Something like the 1450XL would still play the 8-bit games, and have some new features built in.

 

I think a game/home computer that sells in the $200 - $400 price range would be about right?

 

My first thought is that everyone wants internet on it, for mass appeal, but the Atari 8-bit does not have browser capabilities. I think the Falcon 030 did have it. Is that a better starting place in terms of hardware to develop from?

[frogstar_robot]

I think a game/home computer that sells in the $200 - $400 price range would be about right?

 

 

That amount of money can buy a low end PC if you shop carefully. The upper end of that price range would even run Vista (poorly). The continuum here seems to be sub-$40 toys that are either NOCs or re-implementations of old chipsets, PSP/GP2X/handheld organizer ($100-$300), after that we are looking at desktops, laptops, and tablets.

 

Even a hot-rodded A8 derivative would be a hard sell for that kind of money. What MIGHT be practical are FPGA implementations of the A8 chipset enhanced or not that are assembled from kits. It's the only way I can see of selling a botique item like that.

[tcropper]

I think those are marketing issues. I was speaking mainly from the original prices that the A-8 computers sold for in the mid-80's. Maybe we can do it for $150 and it's a high-end game machine/computer? Or maybe we just get it all in pieces and you assemble from home. That might make it more of the A-8 hobbyists computer.

 

But is there enough interest here in these forums where everyone at leasts says they will buy if it is made? I think there is. Even the Retro-gamers would get one just to play the old A-8 cartridge games.

 

But where do we start? Copyright issues? Finding the original Manufacturers that produced the Atari equipment (mfr it for Atari)?

[Tickled_Pink]

I think a game/home computer that sells in the $200 - $400 price range would be about right?

Even a hot-rodded A8 derivative would be a hard sell for that kind of money. What MIGHT be practical are FPGA implementations of the A8 chipset enhanced or not that are assembled from kits. It's the only way I can see of selling a botique item like that.

That's certainly an idea worth investigating further. The only issue I'd have with that would be the amount of time I imagine it would require to accurately model the Pokey, Antic and GTIA chips - not to mention the 6502C itself, considering that ready-made 6502 processors are now very hard to come by. I have a couple of pieces of standard 65C02s I managed to get off California Micro about 3 - 4 years ago. They don't make them anymore. There is, I believe a free 6502 core implementation available but I haven't checked on the progress of that for some time (there were issues with a couple of half-implemented instructions IIRC).

 

If anyone was going to try doing something like this then they'd be more likely to succeed if they decided to do, say, a Sinclair Spectrum, since Sinclair machines were originally sold in kit form - I have a rare 16K Issue One machine that could be copied very easily due to its hand-drawn tracks on a dual-layered board. The only custom chip on there is the ULA. The Spectrum is such a simple design that some mad fool managed to create his own entirely out of logic chips ... unfortunately I don't know if the site still exists.

 

But certainly, do a good job of whatever computer you want to resurrect in kit form, and there are bound to be electronics enthusiasts (and electronic stores, such as Maplin) who would be interested.

 

I think those are marketing issues. I was speaking mainly from the original prices that the A-8 computers sold for in the mid-80's. Maybe we can do it for $150 and it's a high-end game machine/computer? Or maybe we just get it all in pieces and you assemble from home. That might make it more of the A-8 hobbyists computer.

 

But is there enough interest here in these forums where everyone at leasts says they will buy if it is made? I think there is. Even the Retro-gamers would get one just to play the old A-8 cartridge games.

 

But where do we start? Copyright issues? Finding the original Manufacturers that produced the Atari equipment (mfr it for Atari)?

It's far more likely to be a patent issue. However, I can't recall how regularly a patent has to be renewed. If the patent has not been renewed then I believe it will lapse. You need to obtain the patent numbers and check with the US patent office to see the status of those patents.

 

There is now no such thing as a hobbyist computer - which is why such a project may well fill in a missing niche. As for these forums ... unfortunately you'd be unlikely to make a success of it if you restricted your thinking and marketing to people here. Although many would buy it just for the hell of it, why would we when we have so many of the original machines. The people you need to be attracting are the electronic wizards who want something interesting to build and play around with. There may also be some educational possibilities for such a project.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Tickled_Pink

[tcropper]

Tickled_Pink...Well, since Atari Computers as we know it was disbanned, perhaps even the company corporation dissolved, who will argue the patents if I did infring on them? Probably nobody, but again, I would either get Atari Corporation's approval or a signed waiver that they would not seek any lawsuits from the deal.

 

Can you take the 6502 chip and EEPROM it? or chip copy it to something? Maybe check on the chips if that is your specialty.

I would do an Atari Computer, designed and built by a newly formed Atari Computer Corp. The Atari name holds too much interest.

 

plastic cases can be re-made, if in enough quantity. PC-boards can be made, if in enough quantity. Chips should be able as well, unless somehow we don't have the technology anymore (we can't go to the moon now for some reason)!

 

My biggest concerns are things like floppy drives. Who repairs those floppy drives anymore? Furthermore, if it has to be A-8 Compatible, and we add a 5.25" floppy drive where the heck do we get that from? I guess have those re-made in quantity as well!

 

I think we should keep it simple for the first step and just re-make a computer already made. Then add folks who can create chips and oses.

[joeventura]

Stop thinking old school,

The circuitry for a 1450XLD would fit on a PCB as big as a credit card when you consider what is possible with VLSI chips

 

Problem is no one has the time or engineering capabilities an their disposal to do something of that nature.

 

Did you see the guts of a flashback?

 

 

With VLSI you could fit an 800XL in the space of a 2600 Cartridge!

[tcropper]

I have just emailed Nolan Bushnell (founder of Atari), regarding what his thoughts were on the patent issues, and asked him to join us on these forums.

I will await his reponse.

[rdhays82604]

In reguard to the rights, being that Atari was absorbed buy JTS in 1996 and later sold to Hasbro in 1998, maby we need to contact Hasbro too. Maybe thats where the right may be aquired. They did release all rights to the public domain for the Jaguar in 1999.

 

http://www.heartbone.com/comphist/Atari.htm

[peteym5]

My first thought is that everyone wants internet on it, for mass appeal, but the Atari 8-bit does not have browser capabilities. I think the Falcon 030 did have it. Is that a better starting place in terms of hardware to develop from?

 

One of the reasons I want to use a 65816 CPU at higher speeds and extend the capabilities of the GTIA/Antic chipset is to allow such software to be made for it. It will certainly make them process like 10 times faster than their original counterpart. I did mentioned it in another thread that the Antic chip used $D400 to $D40F with 5 of those bytes unused for write, along with $D410 to $D4FF as just being repeats of the first 16 bytes. You certainly have room to add more registers. GTIA used $D000 to $D01F and the first 32 bytes were repeated to $D0FF. You have like 450 bytes of registers without altering the function of the original registers. More color clocks, pixels, bytes per line, colors per pixel, etc. As for Pokey, dont just do duel or quad pokey, but add some other functions like a pcm voices or extra waveform control.

 

However it does require someone to make us a new chip. Yeah do it all on one chip, or do audio on one and video on another.

Edited October 30, 2007 by peteym5

[Artlover]

My first thought is that everyone wants internet on it, for mass appeal, but the Atari 8-bit does not have browser capabilities.

Only because no one has made an browser app or tcp/ip hardware. Both could be done, just like it was on the C64.

[BoatofCar]

I think the best and only feasable idea in this thread is to make some kind of hobby kit A8.

[pseudografx]

Regarding a new Atari computer project, I would really like to see something like this: http://www.symbos.de/trex.htm

It is an FPGA-based Amstrad CPC emulator that can run in "turbo" mode (that is 24 MHz), with various connectivity options, including IDE, USB, TV-out, VGA etc.

Edited October 17, 2007 by pseudografx

[Rybags]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned:

 

Thousands of hours work by probably under a dozen people, with maybe a couple of thousand "profit" from potential sales of maybe a couple of hundred.

 

 

IMO, the best "project" would be just a cartridge with a "slave" CPU and some shared memory.

 

Potentially, it might be doable for under $50. And it could be usable straight away, no need for soldering.

[mos6507]

I think anything along these lines should only serve as a way to prolong the usefulness of legacy hardware. The old PCB designs are clunky to say the least. Even just something to allow us to transplant the old chips over, something that gives us everything in one, like a 1200XL with internal basic, XL/XE OS, PBI, extended memory, dual pokeys, and A/V out. That would sell. People have really cobbled and hacked away at their A8s which is not good for their reliability. Too many jumper wires and piggybacking going on.

 

As for FPGA, just look at the C=1 project. It could simulate any 6502 system but nobody's every gotten around to doing the A8 core.

 

Any extensions of the A8 design is only practical for games. It doesn't makes sense to write application software for the A8 anymore.

[Retro Rogue]

I have just emailed Nolan Bushnell (founder of Atari),

 

Co-founder

 

regarding what his thoughts were on the patent issues, and asked him to join us on these forums.

I will await his reponse.

 

Even forgetting that he was gone a good year before they were finished and put on the market, I don't see what he would have to do with who owns the properties now. The man left that company almost 29 years ago, and the properties have changed hands 4 times since then.

 

Secondly, all patented, copyrighted, and trademarked material is currently owned by Atari Interactive (not to be confused with Atari Inc.). You'd have to contact them to get permission for material not already released in the public domain.

Edited October 17, 2007 by wgungfu

[nathanallan]

MO, the best "project" would be just a cartridge with a "slave" CPU and some shared memory.

 

Potentially, it might be doable for under $50. And it could be usable straight away, no need for soldering.

I've seen this done before in Chinese rip-offs in Mexico, and yeah they're done cheaply, like $10. Not that this has to be the way it gets done, cause we as fans want the quality bar as high as the FB2. It was called an "Educational Computer," and it had a cart with a bunch of games onboard and also DOS 3.0! What the mexican thing was, was a jeyboard with a cart slot in the top of it, and had cheap-o joystick controllers, a light gun and a reset button. The brains of the thing were in the cart, and all that was in the keyboard was some power supply circuitry and keyboard connections. I think it actually had a mouse, too.

 

Sounds like a neat idea! I'd spend, say about a hundred dollars on something like that from Atari.

 

found a pic of a similar machine. The one I saw was more of a beige/green color scheme.

Any extensions of the A8 design is only practical for games. It doesn't makes sense to write application software for the A8 anymore.

 

That's what homebrewers are for. And there's a ton of stuff out there already that can be ported (if it's so different that it has to be ported) to it.

 

Only thing is, skip the floppy drive, go for memory card slot. And a serial port.

 

Nathan