BigO Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) Just a fun little project I've been doing when I have the odd spare moment or two. It started with a rescue of a pile of 5200 stuff that was destined for the trash. (Got me parts to fix my 5200 and build one working, very nice condition trackball) One of the trackballs I got had a hopelessly rusted, completely encrusted and majorly busted ball mechanism, but was otherwise completely functional. I picked up a $2.00 Reveal sumthineruther joystick and commenced ta hackin' I've built and tested the circuit that is necessary to make the 150K ohm pots work with the console that expects 500K (or something near there). Played several games with the joystick wiring hacked into where the trackball used to connect. The top of the joystick mechanism, after being extracted from its enclosure, exposed an ugly top surface at the base of the stick. I was dreading trying to cut in a piece of plastic where the circular trackball hole was to hide the ugly protruding screws and flat top of the joystick mech. As luck would have it, I was rummaging around looking for a piece of plastic and found the remnants of a previous 2600 joystick mod. The rubber boot was already cut down to exactly what I needed for this project and fit perfectly over the joystick shaft and exactly filled the former trackball opening. It's not quite done yet. I have to do some epoxy magic to make the pieces hold their positions without stressing the case. Still need to do the final wiring with solder and heat shrink instead of breadboards and wire nuts. I may see if I can get the "autofire" function of the joystick to work, though I don't know if that will be beneficial for any 5200 games. Once I find or make a suitable knob, there will be a paddle control down toward the lower right hand corner of the controller. A switch will select between the horizontal joystick axis and the paddle potentiometer. That's the plan anyway. Then again, I only set out to build an adapter to use a PC joystick on my 5200. I think my next trick will be to mod another of the trackballs to have a socket for a PC joystick input. Full trackball functionality will be retained and some sort of switching setup will be used to select the external joystick. That'll be tons easier than this. Edited December 8, 2007 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 That is begging to be used to play Star Raiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKE5200 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Boy, that look like something that i could use right now. Wondering if it would play all the 5200 games right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zwackery Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 That is totally cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) Boy, that look like something that i could use right now. Wondering if it would play all the 5200 games right? I only have about 20 games, but was able to play most of them with it. Pac-man is playable, though I think I need more practice. On Centipede, the control is very quick; almost too quick for me as I kept ramming the spider. Galaxian seemed fine. Joust, I don't really know how to play but I could make the birds fly and land and run back and forth, so I think it's fine. Missile Command was quick but totally playable. Space Invaders worked fine. Dig Dug was okay. I can't quite figure out the turret control in Countermeasure, but I think it works okay. Defender, I had some trouble controlling, but only played it for a few seconds. I think the joystick was working okay with Tennis, though I'd like to have something to blame for the way I played... Super Breakout was all but unplayable. The control was way too quick. That's why I'm planning to add the paddle. Wish I had Kaboom to test with. Bear in mind that I've never really played any of these games as my controllers haven't worked right since I acquired the game. I repaired the console, but haven't tackled the controllers yet. I played Missile Command and a few others with a trackball for a few minutes, but that's about it. When I get it going, I can run more tests if I happen to have the game you want to know about. It might be possible to change the sensitivity of the controls by increasing/decreasing the size of the capacitors that were added to accomodate the 150k potentiometers. That's something I'd have to test with and would require another switch mechanism of some sort. Edited October 17, 2007 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 That is begging to be used to play Star Raiders. Probably would be a good fit. I didn't think about that as I only have the 2600 version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 That is totally cool! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybastard Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Nice! I did something similar a while ago with a dead trackball. I called it Frankenstick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) Nice! I did something similar a while ago with a dead trackball. I called it Frankenstick Nice work. That's a more authentic, original look than mine. I wonder if there's a gallery of hacked and/or homebrewed controllers floating around... Heh, I have Frankenstick named project, too. I grafted the handle with trigger and two thumb controlled buttons from a Gravis joystick onto a 2600 Gemstick to build a 7800 compatible controller. (And recapped the original orange button with bits from the Gravis to complete the color scheme.) I just need to replace the cord with a full 9-wire one, finish the wiring including a couple of resistors that will keep the buttons 2600 compatible and epoxy + pin the handle to the inner shaft to keep it from rotating. I'll probably finish that one soon since I also picked up the parts recently to finish my 7800 video mod. Edited October 17, 2007 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboypacman Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Nice work, BigO! The 5200 trackball is a great controller. Plus beyond the trackball controlls itself, the base could be used for other things as well. I've been working on another type of controller using the base for a while. I stopped sometime ago so I have to get back to it soon. It's based on a controller that DK was working on but never made it to the market. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Nice work, BigO! The 5200 trackball is a great controller. Plus beyond the trackball controlls itself, the base could be used for other things as well. I've been working on another type of controller using the base for a while. I stopped sometime ago so I have to get back to it soon. It's based on a controller that DK was working on but never made it to the market. Allan Thanks, Allan. Maybe we can post a thread of modded controllers? DK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Nice work, BigO! The 5200 trackball is a great controller. Plus beyond the trackball controlls itself, the base could be used for other things as well. I've been working on another type of controller using the base for a while. I stopped sometime ago so I have to get back to it soon. It's based on a controller that DK was working on but never made it to the market. Allan Thanks, Allan. Maybe we can post a thread of modded controllers? DK? Dan Kramer. The inventor of the 5200 Track Ball. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Nice work, BigO! The 5200 trackball is a great controller. Plus beyond the trackball controlls itself, the base could be used for other things as well. I've been working on another type of controller using the base for a while. I stopped sometime ago so I have to get back to it soon. It's based on a controller that DK was working on but never made it to the market. Allan Thanks, Allan. Maybe we can post a thread of modded controllers? DK? Dan Kramer. The inventor of the 5200 Track Ball. Allan Oh. Okay. I'd be interested to see what you're working on when you're ready to show it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic George 2K3 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Now there's an interesting trackball controller conversion. Not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Oh. Okay. I'd be interested to see what you're working on when you're ready to show it. O.K. I'll make sure I steer you in the right direction when I'm done. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) Ah. Very interesting, indeed. Now you've started the wheels turning. That should be fun. I think I just threw away some stuff you might have been able to use. I was thinking if one of these trackballs was totally busted and had no useable parts, it might make a suitable base for a Stunt Cycle controller. But, I just realized that a dead 2600 Jr or 7800 might not be a bad starting point. Probably should build a cartridge first, though. I've got a different scratch-built 5200 controller on the back burner. There's just never enough time. Edited October 22, 2007 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 I take back what I said about Super Breakout not being playable. Once I got everything stabilized, glued and screwed in, it's quite playable. A notch below a paddle in play quality I'd say, but it's good enough that I'm going to skip the built in paddle option for now. How the heck are you supposed to play Wizard of Wor? I can't get anything to happen. I have one regular controller that the joystick works on and I couldn't get it to do anything either. Anyway, I'm down to taking it apart one more time to wrap the harness then re-assemble and do a couple of cosmetic fixes to the outside. Of course, then it will probably sit in my closet forever, but it was fun to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 All done under the hood. Plays great. I *might* do some cosmetic work like make some sort of custom strip to replace the aluminum trim piece. Maybe polished or brushed brass for the "5200 Joystick Deluxe" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 So how'd you do this? Is it a modification of the 5200 PC Joystick adapter instructions printed on Atari HQ? And would it be possible to create a standard digital joystick using an old trackball housing as a case? I think it would really be cool if you took a micro-switch joystick from an arcade game, mounted it where the trackball used to be, then added a 9-pin D-shell connector at the bottom of the trackball's base for those times when you just wanted to use a Sega Arcade Pad or other lightweight controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) So how'd you do this? Is it a modification of the 5200 PC Joystick adapter instructions printed on Atari HQ? And would it be possible to create a standard digital joystick using an old trackball housing as a case? I think it would really be cool if you took a micro-switch joystick from an arcade game, mounted it where the trackball used to be, then added a 9-pin D-shell connector at the bottom of the trackball's base for those times when you just wanted to use a Sega Arcade Pad or other lightweight controller. The PC analog joystick adapter Yes, it is electrically the same thing. If you have the pinouts for the 5200 joystick and the PC joystick, you can figure out this adapter for yourself. Just wire everything up by function e.g. X position, Y position, button 1, button 2. There is only one trick to making the adapter work. The PC joystick has 150K ohm potentiometers, the 5200 joystick has something around 500K ohm (I read somewhere 560 and somewhere else 620). The result is that the PC joystick will act like a 5200 joystick with the pots limited to about 1/4 of their full travel. The potentiometers in the joystick are used to control the rate at which a capacitor inside the 5200 is charged, which is then translated to a stick position. So, basically, the PC joystick isn't capable of charging the capacitors slowly enough. The arrangement is called an "RC" circuit. If you lower the resistance in the RC circuit and wish to keep the charge time unchanged, you must increase the capacitance. That is the purpose of the capacitors in the aforementioned adapter instructions. The two capacitors are connected between the wiper (center connection) of the joystick pots and ground. This places them electrically in parallel with the capacitors inside the console which increases the capacitance and increases the charge time back to what it was with the higher resistance of the 5200 joystick and the lower capacitance native in the console. I see that the adapter in question calls out .22uF capacitors. I think I had used .47uF in mine to get the proper function. Dunno why the discrepancy. In my picture, the capacitors are hidden inside that 1/2" diameter piece of unshrunken, white heat shrink tubing. Digital Adapter Your suggestion of using a digital joystick in a conversion like this is a good one. I went with the analog to make it as much like the original as possible. Having never before played 5200 games, I didn't realize how many of them would be playable with a digital stick. I have drawn up, somewhere, a very simple adapter scheme that I think should work with a 2600 joystick. I was going to include a 9pin port on my joystick conversion to use with one of those. But, the 2600 controller has only one button, so I figured it wasn't worth the effort. If I get time, I'll test it out with an arcade stick I have and report back. I do have a few more trackballs I can hack up. I don't know enough about the Sega controller to address that issue specifically. From what little I do understand, it would require some electronics to convert the signal to use as a second fire button. Edited November 25, 2007 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 (edited) Okay, now it's finished. Couldn't stand the unfinished black strip so cobbled together an aluminum strip. I find that I don't play the 5200 enough to justify the space for this thing so I've decided to try to sell it. If you're interested: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=117017 Edited November 25, 2007 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassGuitari Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 How the heck are you supposed to play Wizard of Wor? I can't get anything to happen. I have one regular controller that the joystick works on and I couldn't get it to do anything either. Use joystick #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted November 29, 2007 Author Share Posted November 29, 2007 Oh. I thought I tried that, having learned my lesson from Tac-Scan on the 2600...apparently I didn't try it. Do you have to have two controllers plugged in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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