BigO Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) I didn't like my stock 5200 controllers, even when they were working. I looked around to see if I could find an alternative. I found numerous adapters and discussions about Y cables and what would work, etc. But, everything I found required a working 5200 controller for the keypad, start, pause and reset buttons. I didn't consider those to be viable solutions. Built from used controllers, broken electronic devices and a few new parts I came up with this. I had planned on a black face plate, but had a free source of plastic in the form of an old PC keyboard. The mockup worked out well enough that I was able to fit it with the switches and wiring to turn it into a working prototype. Here it is after completing the last bit of wiring. I was happy with how well the games play using this controller. I might actually like the 5200 with this addition. I like it well enough that I'll probably source components to see if I can make myself a set out of all new parts. I'll at least remake it with a black faceplate. I may paint the start, pause and reset buttons green, yellow and red respectively. I've located a source of keypads that look to be the same as this one but has the * and # symbols. It won't accept original keypad overlays, but who needs those? Edited July 29, 2008 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Explodes Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 You do a really good job with all this stuff. I want one of those! Haha. Seriously, looks good. As long as you enjoy doing it, that's what matters! Looks good. Redundancy is fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 It's a pretty neat idea! However, the shape and size throw me off a little bit. Any way you could shrink this down into a Genesis-sized controller... you know, maybe use calculator keys instead of a telephone keypad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) It's a pretty neat idea! However, the shape and size throw me off a little bit. Any way you could shrink this down into a Genesis-sized controller... you know, maybe use calculator keys instead of a telephone keypad? Sure, it could be shrunken quite a bit. If I could come up with a keypad for less than $3.00 and an enclosure that can house the height of the thumbstick for less than $1.00 and I'm there. My other big expenses were $4 for the controller that I took the thumbstick out of and I think $2 for the Sudoku handheld that I took the silver buttons out of and $2 for the controller I took the red buttons out of...and $0 for the VHS camcorder that I took the tactile switches out of for the silver buttons and $0 for the Sansui turntable parts I've kept around in my parts bin for more than 20 years. I'm glad to finally have used those tactile switches, they're the fire buttons mounted on the front side of the perf board in the picture---very nice touch. Actually it's fairly comfortable. I also thought that the form factor was more true to what you might expect from the 5200 era so I went with that enclosure. This is really not much bigger than a Genesis controller. I'll get you some comparitive pictures later. Speaking of the Genesis controller, I played with that some a while back as a base for a modification. It's not out of the realm of possibility to graft a small keypad onto one, I just didn't want to do all of the carving and shaping, sculpting, button relocation, etc. to make it right. I also wanted the analog stick for this particular project and it requires some depth. I like the way they feel so I toyed with retrofitting a Dreamcast controller. A keypad slightly smaller than the one I used could be grafted onto one of those easily. A keypad this size would fit with a little more hacking...in case you were looking for a project. Edited December 10, 2007 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Very, Very nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) Here's the promised size comparison picture: My controller is pretty close to the size of the Genesis controller, closer than I was thinking. Edited December 10, 2007 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BydoEmpire Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Wow, that's amazing. Nice job - looks like it would play pretty well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodos8 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Damn! Nice job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariRocks Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 How hard is it to push the keypad buttons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Damn that looks great. I take it that it's digital though, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) How hard is it to push the keypad buttons? If you mean how much force is required, I guess I'd have to say the usual amount. They're a whole lot more tactile than the mushy buttons on the original controller, but they push about like the keys on an building security alarm panel. They require enough force and have a long enough throw that it's tough to accidentally press one, but there's no challenge in actuating them. If you mean how difficult is it to reach the buttons with your thumbs then the answer is that it's not too bad. I can hit even the farthest of the keypad buttons with either thumb with a slight stretch. If I use the closest thumb to the button then it's very easy to hit them. I can't see that it would be difficult at all to select pitches while playing Baseball. I don't know all of the functions of the Star Raiders buttons, but I was able to make it do everything it could do without repositioning my hands. I suspect this is what you really meant. I'll try to take a picture later with my hands on the controller so you can see. If you mean something else then I'll have to go with 42. Edited December 10, 2007 by BigO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 Damn that looks great. I take it that it's digital though, right? Thanks. If you mean that you use your fingers to run it then yes it's digital. If you mean that the thumbstick is all-or-nothing, 1 or 0 then no. It's analog. I had thoughts of adding a digital "mode" wherein the controller was very sensitive and therefore quick to respond. But, after playing it, I find that I can move the controller to the extremes pretty quickly. Is there a scenario or particular game in which digital is a great enhancement to game play? If I have that game, I can check it out and report back. I can tell you that it works great for Pacman. I couldn't play it worth crap using the standard controller. It was slightly better with my trackball turned joystick and is that much better again with the thumbstick. I can play Super Breakout so-so with it, but it's twitchy and would get tedious in a hurry (like Super Breakout wouldn't get tedious with every controller). If anyone wants to make me a smokin' deal on 5200 Kaboom!, I'd be happy to report on my findings with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) If you mean that the thumbstick is all-or-nothing, 1 or 0 then no. It's analog. Sweet! Now you have to make me one too! Is there a scenario or particular game in which digital is a great enhancement to game play? There are a number of games that benefit from the analog control (when they work right anyway) or require it - Choplifter, Star Raiders, Star Wars, Kaboom, Missile Command, Galaxian (two speed ship control). There's probably some more. Some of the 5200 stock stick evangelists can pipe in. Edited December 10, 2007 by remowilliams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Explodes Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) EDIT: Off topic, wrong place for that... so I'll amend it with, I still want one of these. Edited December 11, 2007 by Tom_Explodes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Is there a scenario or particular game in which digital is a great enhancement to game play? If I have that game, I can check it out and report back. I can tell you that it works great for Pacman. Many games on the Atari 5200 work better with a digital controller. Some examples include Wizard of Wor, Blueprint, Moon Patrol, Gyruss, the recent port of Donkey Kong... pretty much any port of an arcade game that used a joystick instead of a trackball. Console-exclusive platformers like Montezuma's Revenge and Miner 2049'er work really well with a digital controller too. It'd be really cool if you could add a directional pad on this controller, along with a switch that lets you toggle between the D-pad and analog stick. I had a PC controller like that and it worked beautifully... it was the best controller I had until I stepped up to a Joybox adapter that let me use real Saturn and Playstation game pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboypacman Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Very nice! I would love something like this for the Colecovision as well.Great Work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Helmet Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I would gladly pay for one of those. Nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 It'd be really cool if you could add a directional pad on this controller, along with a switch that lets you toggle between the D-pad and analog stick. Actually, that was one of my earlier considerations. I don't want to put a bunch of chips in this thing if I can avoid it and all of the digital joystick to 5200 adapters I've seen use IC's. I have an idea for an interface between the digital pad and the analog port that uses only passive components. I assume that I must be missing some key issue since I haven't yet found anyone who's built an adapter like I'm thinking of. I need to breadboard up my concept and test it. If that works, I might add the digital capability to this or a future controller. I'm a little worried about placement, but I can scootch the analog controller up by 4 or 5 mm to allow space for the D-pad as high up on the controller as I can. That seems like it would be the most comfortable, but I won't know until I test it and have some other people test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Very nice! I would love something like this for the Colecovision as well.Great Work! Thanks all for the kind words. I have only a passing knowledge of the crazy scheme used in the CV to implement so many functions on a 9 pin cable. But, I have looked into this and I think I can build one for a CV. I have identified some parts that I'll be ordering to try it one of these days. I don't have a CV, but am supposed to be picking one up in a few days. Then starts the hunt for the power supply... If I get anything working, I'll post on AtariAge since the people in my real world don't share my interest in crappy old video games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 I would gladly pay for one of those. Nice work! I could build you one for the right price. Honestly, I have had fleeting thoughts of doing some of these for sale. I have a few sourcing issues, a few design issues, a few decisions about features, a few time issues (wife, job, put on a roof, pour a patio, remodel bathrooms, etc. ad nauseum)...well, you get the point. As with any homebrew effort the market would have to be patient, if I were to decide that I could build them. It would be many months before I could even find all of the pieces I need. On top of that, the sale price would likely end up higher than people would want to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Someone was (I think) asking about proportions and reaching the keypad. Here's maybe a better sense of scale than the earlier pictures. I'm not a huge person; just under 6 ft and not strangely proportioned. I can span an octave + 1 on a piano keyboard if that gives anyone a frame of reference (its a serious stretch to get +2). The controller measures roughly 5.75" x 3.5" x 1.125" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Are you able to test the pot values using a diagnostic cart? I'd be curious to see if the stick gives a full 0-255 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 If you mean that the thumbstick is all-or-nothing, 1 or 0 then no. It's analog. Sweet! Now you have to make me one too! Is there a scenario or particular game in which digital is a great enhancement to game play? There are a number of games that benefit from the analog control (when they work right anyway) or require it - Choplifter, Star Raiders, Star Wars, Kaboom, Missile Command, Galaxian (two speed ship control). There's probably some more. Some of the 5200 stock stick evangelists can pipe in. Maybe someday, remo. Maybe someday. I checked more closely in Galaxian and I can reliably hit the two different speeds. Still waiting for someone to offer to sell me Kaboom... Seriously, what would people pay for something like this? I've seen the popularity of the modded NES controllers for the 7800 and Colecovision. While that was some excellent work, I think this is more involved, considerably more costly and complex. I can't imagine people paying enough for these to make it worthwhile. I can simplify the process a bit on the construction side as I have access to CNC machine tools to do jobs like cutting the face plates and removing the unneeded material from the enclosure. If I can find the right type of buttons, I might be able to bypass the need for a circuit board. I'd have to study on that some more. What are people's gut reactions to the question of "how much would you pay"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigO Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Are you able to test the pot values using a diagnostic cart? I'd be curious to see if the stick gives a full 0-255 range. (Sorry, overlapping posts) I don't have a diagnostic cart or multicart to do that with. I don't know enough about programming the 5200 yet to say whether I could hack up some code to test that. I'm curious about that, too. This is a pure hack job so far. It works for the games I have but I don't have very many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Explodes Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 My gut reaction is about 20 bucks. But I'm poor. So that's probably no good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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