Cybergoth Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Hi there! I'm looking for your mockups for a number of 1982 Arcades. How would these look on the VCS: Domino Man Bally Midway Kozmik Kroozr Bally Midway Lost Tomb (easy) Stern Pepper II Exidy Pioneer Balloon SNK Radar Zone Century Electronics Radical Radial Nichibutsu USA Tazz-Mania (set 1) Stern Time Tunnel Taito Corporation Wacko Bally Midway Wiping Nichibutsu Zektor (revision B) Sega Zoar Data East USA Zzyzzyxx (set 1) Cinematronics I'm not saying that I'm going to program one of them, but you'll never know... Greetings, Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) What is the intent here? Also, any Zookeeper mockup would have to be an animated GIF to show all the flicker. Edited December 10, 2007 by ZylonBane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 What is the intent here? Seeing how they might look on the VCS Also, any Zookeeper mockup would have to be an animated GIF to show all the flicker. That is a good suggestion, probably a good idea for Bubbles and Robotron as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nathan Strum Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) Ask again in January. Edited December 10, 2007 by Nathan Strum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Ask again in January. You're excused for December Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Sprite Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 (edited) Hi there! I'm looking for your mockups for a number of 1982 Arcades. How would these look on the VCS: Bubbles Williams Dazzler Century Electronics Domino Man Bally Midway Hard Hat Exidy Kozmik Kroozr Bally Midway Kram (set 1) Taito America Corporation Lost Tomb (easy) Stern Pepper II Exidy Pioneer Balloon SNK Radar Zone Century Electronics Radical Radial Nichibutsu USA Robotron (Solid Blue label) Williams Splat! Williams Tazz-Mania (set 1) Stern Time Tunnel Taito Corporation Wacko Bally Midway Wiping Nichibutsu Zektor (revision B) Sega Zoar Data East USA Zoo Keeper (set 1) Taito America Corporation Zzyzzyxx (set 1) Cinematronics I'm not saying that I'm going to program one of them, but you'll never know... Greetings, Manuel Mwahahahaha! I <3 this list. We need a challenge. Here's my stab at Robotron. All enemy types are mirrored in horizontal rows. The playfield scrolls vertically, in the sense that the enemies on screen appear to scroll up and down only in response to player actions. The player character is a missile. The idea is to try and rescue every human before the Robotrons in the same horizontal row walk into them, since the 2600 can't make the enemies all blitz you. How did I do? I'm not afraid of honest criticism - it's the only way to learn. Edited December 11, 2007 by A Sprite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Here's my stab at Robotron. All enemy types are mirrored in horizontal rows. The idea is to try and rescue every human before the Robotrons in the same horizontal row walk into them, since the 2600 can't make the enemies all blitz you. How did I do? I'm not afraid of honest criticism - it's the only way to learn. It's not a bad re-imagining of Robotron for the 2600, but I think the 2600 can do better than that. Well, maybe. If you use an intelligent-flicker routine combined with some movement restrictions then I think you could do a passable 2600 Robotron. You could probably get 10-20 enemies on the screen, depending on RAM. It would be a flickerfest but maybe not too bad. Question: Do Robotron enemies die when they hit each other, like in Berzerk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 If you use an intelligent-flicker routine combined with some movement restrictions then I think you could do a passable 2600 Robotron. You could probably get 10-20 enemies on the screen, depending on RAM. It would be a flickerfest but maybe not too bad. Question: Do Robotron enemies die when they hit each other, like in Berzerk? I don't think Robotron should be attempted on the 2600, as I really don't believe it's possible to do it justice. First, you'd have to use some oddball control scheme since you don't have a way of firing independently of movement (as the arcade uses two joysticks). Second, even with 20 enemies on-screen at once, that's a far cry from what the arcade game is capable of, and that is part of what MAKES the game. Being overwhelmed by the sheer number of robots attacking you. Especially in the waves that end in 9. No, enemies do not die when they hit each other, in fact they often overlap one another in their pursuit of you. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Here's a demo showing that intelligent flicker probably won't do it... Press fire and allow a few seconds to stabilize. DISCLAIMER: DONT TRY ON A TV! IT MAY EXPLODE OR ELSE! I think the triple copies solution might be a better option. Imagine 2600 Asteroids with thrice as many objects rob.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Here's a demo showing that intelligent flicker probably won't do it... Press fire and allow a few seconds to stabilize. DISCLAIMER: DONT TRY ON A TV! IT MAY EXPLODE OR ELSE! I think the triple copies solution might be a better option. Imagine 2600 Asteroids with thrice as many objects Eek, yeah, that's a pretty extreme flickerfest. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Smaller objects are a bit more tolerable. Here's 96 of them... robsmall.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Sprite Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 First, you'd have to use some oddball control scheme since you don't have a way of firing independently of movement What if the fire was constant, and the fire button was used to lock on to the nearest occupied coordinates until all enemies within x amount of space away from y were eliminated from the game? ( think Z-trigger in Ocarina of Time) Releasing the button returns control to the player's stick. Takes some getting used to, but it'd help the players get themselves out of most bad situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 First, you'd have to use some oddball control scheme since you don't have a way of firing independently of movement I don't think that's a big deal, I mean almost every home port of Robotron has that same issue. You could try some variation on the truly odd NES Smash TV control scheme or try the Paradroid control scheme. The big thing is the flicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 First, you'd have to use some oddball control scheme since you don't have a way of firing independently of movement I don't think that's a big deal, I mean almost every home port of Robotron has that same issue. You could try some variation on the truly odd NES Smash TV control scheme or try the Paradroid control scheme. Yeah, that's one of the reasons I don't like most home ports of Robotron. It's just not the same without two joysticks (or two d-pads or something). The big thing is the flicker. That's why I think this is mostly a non-starter on the 2600. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Well, the VCS has two independent 8-way digital inputs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 (edited) I know this wouldn't look very nice, but would it be that horrible to use the playfield for the robots? They move in 'steps' anyway, and if you change the color on each scanline of the robot to closely resemble the colors of the robots in the arcade game, it might not be that bad. Then you can use the players, missiles, ball, etc for the people (vertically separated) and other enemies on the screen... Changing the colors on each scanline for the robots might be the hard part if you have a few robots on one line ... You would have to change the playfield color a few times on one scanline. Edited December 11, 2007 by PacManPlus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Sprite Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 (edited) How fast can the Atari 2600 draw missiles? What if the Robotrons were represented as basically bricks, (red brick basic robotron. Big green brick is hulk robotron) and mirrored all over the map with basic movement goals preplanned while chasing humans (both human and nearby robotrons told to go to co-ordinate y), and a basic diagonal approach to chasing the player? The humans could be basic 5-6 pixel high sprites, since there's less of them. Would this limit the flicker to a reasonable amount? Edit: If possible, I like the approach above me. Edited December 11, 2007 by A Sprite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I know this wouldn't look very nice, but would it be that horrible to use the playfield for the robots? They move in 'steps' anyway, and if you change the color on each scanline of the robot to closely resemble the colors of the robots in the arcade game, it might not be that bad. Then you can use the players, missiles, ball, etc for the people (vertically separated) and other enemies on the screen... This is interesting, I wonder how it would look with many robots in motion.. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Sprite Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 (edited) Or - What if the play field was letterboxed, and a radar provided? Edit: So it can be done with background? What are the restrictions? I'll do up a screenshot. Edited December 11, 2007 by A Sprite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 Removed Bubbles from the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I know this wouldn't look very nice, but would it be that horrible to use the playfield for the robots? A few years ago I created a mockup of 2600 Robotron doing precisely this. I'll have to dig it up and repost it when I get home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I know this wouldn't look very nice, but would it be that horrible to use the playfield for the robots? A few years ago I created a mockup of 2600 Robotron doing precisely this. I'll have to dig it up and repost it when I get home. Hmm, I vaguely remember this.. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 I found the post, but the image was linked from elsewhere and is no longer valid. http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=179835 ..Ak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Ah, here it is. Playfield pixels for Grunts, missiles for humanoids, players for the player and whatever other non-Grunt AI are onscreen. The nice thing about using the playfield for Grunts is that you'd theoretically be able to have as many Grunts onscreen as there are playfield pixels, since each Grunt would be represented by nothing more than a single bit in playfield RAM. The Grunt AI would essentially treat the playfield as a cellular automaton, with the rule for each cell being "move toward player". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feralstorm Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 First, you'd have to use some oddball control scheme since you don't have a way of firing independently of movement What if the fire was constant, and the fire button was used to lock on to the nearest occupied coordinates until all enemies within x amount of space away from y were eliminated from the game? ( think Z-trigger in Ocarina of Time) Releasing the button returns control to the player's stick. Takes some getting used to, but it'd help the players get themselves out of most bad situations. Probably a simpler (but similar) solution (for only one stick with one button) is to use the scheme from many versions of Jeff Minter's "Llamatron". firing is constant, but holding the fire button down locks down the firing to the last direction you were moving, so you can fire in a different direction than movement. releasing the button unlocks it so the firing goes back to the direction you're moving. Not aware of any reason to NOT shoot in Robotron anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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