Mark2008 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 PixelBoy and I, have been having quite the discussion about Colecovision and smooth side-scrolling platformers. We both believe it can be done. He said it was OK, if I talked about it....lets face it, I like to talk. Anyway, his idea, is really incredibly clever...he's talking about a full SMB clone, and I think he's right, it can be done. But first, I'm testing out an idea I had, to use put_frame, to produce a single pixel, smooth scrolling, graphics mode 2 level...(with the help of preshifted tilesets)... which I'm toying around with making a game... and at the same time more of a longer term, no hurry, project to see about a full SMB clone. I used put_frame (from the colecovision BIOS, I understand), to do a smooth side scroller... 1 pixel scrolling. So far, it's working fine. So what gotcha's are there? Did the video game crash cause the Colecovision to fall out of favor, before it had the chance to get a side scrolling platformer....or did it get one, and I just don't know my colecovision history (I really don't). Or, have other programmers tried it, and run into some issues with it.... if so, what are they? I'll upload a demo this weekend...I've already done one... I know it works, at least in theory...haven't done a full game on it yet, don't know for sure how many cycles are left. One other oddity, in blueMSX running on a core 2 desktop...it looks really good. Runing on a turion laptop....strangely it doesn't look so good... neither claim to be cpu bound. Strangeness...makes me wish I could run it on a real colecovision to test (I will, but...don't quite have all the pieces just yet). I'll attach a ROM to this thread, probably this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) Anyway, his idea, is really incredibly clever...he's talking about a full SMB clone, and I think he's right, it can be done. Your scrolling implementation is different from mine, but it's also quite good. I still think we can combine both our algorithms to make something nice with optimized ROM usage. Did the video game crash cause the Colecovision to fall out of favor, before it had the chance to get a side scrolling platformer....or did it get one, and I just don't know my colecovision history (I really don't). Or, have other programmers tried it, and run into some issues with it.... if so, what are they? Very few bothered to attempt a smooth side-scrolling platformer, because the CV doesn't have built-in hardware scrolling like the NES (and all later consoles) did. The only two examples that come to mind are the unreleased Moon Patrol and also PkK's Search for the Stolen Crown Jewels 1 and 2. Also, back in the 80's, side-scrollers were the territory of shooters (like Defender and Vanguard), while most platformers were single-screen affairs. The world had to wait until Super Mario Bros to see the concept of a side-scrolling platformer really take off, although I'm sure there were several such platformers in the arcades that pre-date the NES by a couple of years (I'm too lazy to think of any right now). EDIT: Doesn't Defender on the CV feature smooth scrolling...? Edited January 7, 2008 by Pixelboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten-four Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Hi... If i understand it right... Defender have a very fine sideways scrolling. But i think Nova Blast is a tiny better -so the trick can be done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Hi... If i understand it right... Defender have a very fine sideways scrolling. But i think Nova Blast is a tiny better -so the trick can be done Hey I just tried out Nova Blast. It is an interesting defender clone. So that proves it...the Colecovision had side scrolling shooters... and had single screen platformers.... and I was just surfing around, and came across Miner 2049'er...among others, of course. But it didn't have a side scrolling platformer, with kooky Japanese style graphics. I guess thats controversial, but I find it interesting how little Mario actually shoots or kills in Super Mario World...western games kind of got started with shootem ups... Not to say that Mario doesn't stomp a mean turtle, but you know...I think the Japanese style is really evident in that game...but proved to be very popular in the West... if Colecovision still had major development by 1985, it would have seen the smooth scrolling platformer....instead it had to wait to 2008....hehehe.... well it just about kills me not to release a demo now, but I know everyone doesn't want a demo of the day....just wait till something to show.... but I will whip up a teaser by the weekend anyway..... later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vdub_bobby Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I guess thats controversial, but I find it interesting how little Mario actually shoots or kills in Super Mario World...western games kind of got started with shootem ups... Not to say that Mario doesn't stomp a mean turtle, but you know...I think the Japanese style is really evident in that game...but proved to be very popular in the West... At about the same time Nintendo released Donkey Kong, it also released Radar Scope and Heli Fire, both....shoot-em-ups. And at about the same time, Atari was releasing Crystal Castles, Pole Position, Fast Freddie, and Dig Dug - none of those are shoot-em-ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV Gus Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 "Matt Patrol" also had excellent scrolling. I did not think that it could have been done like that, in spite of Nova Blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) I guess thats controversial, but I find it interesting how little Mario actually shoots or kills in Super Mario World...western games kind of got started with shootem ups... Not to say that Mario doesn't stomp a mean turtle, but you know...I think the Japanese style is really evident in that game...but proved to be very popular in the West... At about the same time Nintendo released Donkey Kong, it also released Radar Scope and Heli Fire, both....shoot-em-ups. And at about the same time, Atari was releasing Crystal Castles, Pole Position, Fast Freddie, and Dig Dug - none of those are shoot-em-ups. Well you are absolutely right in that, some Western Games were not shootem ups, and other games, which I think are Japanese, like R-Type (I haven't checked, but in my memory, this was a japanese game)...are famously shootem ups. Still...I think Western games tended towards much more violence...you mentioned Dig Dug...it didn't kill by projectile, but rather by inflating things until they exploded...it wasn't a shootem up, it was still a kind of violent fantasy. Don't get me wrong, I'm no pollyanna...super inflating creatures and exploding them was great fun. I loved Dig Dug, and played it many times in the arcade. But...regardless of individual games (nothing violent about baseball, Pole Position, etc.)....there was a difference, speaking in generalities, in terms of what Japense coders were producing, as a whole, vs. their western counterparts. Japanese coders brought to the table new ideas, and a somewhat distinctive style, that became very popular, and certainly had its influence on the video game scene as it progressed from Atari dominance, to Nintendo dominance. Both of those periods, nowadays, are classic periods...and I like the pioneering Atari period...the later refinements of the Nintendo period...had distinctive styles that are interesting to talk about... I still think it true today, that...a shocking amount of quality games that we produce, the Japanese don't buy. And many Japanese games, aren't ever released in the U.S. ....because of differing tastes. And, the cross over games, for example, Ratchet and Clank, may be popular in the U.S., and do mediocre in Japan. Seems to be some strong cultural differences....that make for differences, not only in the market, but taken the other way, differences in what is produced. :-) oh well, I knew I was going to ramble on that one.... OH, and now I'm going to argue against my own point: Japanese didn't like projectile violence, maybe...but they showed a great love for fighting games with fists....many a beat'm up game, came out of Japan during the 16 bit era....virtua fighter, etc. Edited January 10, 2008 by Mark2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Japanese didn't like projectile violence, maybe... The PC-Engine is legendary for their tons of great shoot'em ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Japanese didn't like projectile violence, maybe... The PC-Engine is legendary for their tons of great shoot'em ups. ahh... I stand corrected then. Maybe I'll just say, that some games are not shootem ups, and some are...each have their own appeal. But...in my old age, I'm liking games that don't involve shooting. And, sometimes I hear kids playing music and I think "ITS TOO LOUD". The next step in my personal evolution is to shoo kids out of my yard, and accuse them of stepping on my azalias, I'm sure. :-) sigh...getting old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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