CPUWIZ Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 I got a box full of commons from eBay because I needed one semi rare cart in the lot. Well, it arrived today (after nearly 4 weeks). The item description had the usual, blah blah - untested and one mystery game without label. The picture was hell of blurry but I could tell that the cart I wanted was in there so I went for it. So I am digging through the carts, plugging one after another into my 2600 until I came across this one. That's when I nearly had a heart attack. Now my question is, prototype, the real deal or a really good fake ? Take a look for yourself ... Anyone wanna buy my reproduction I was talking about in another thread, I don't need it anymore ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 3, 2002 Author Share Posted November 3, 2002 Come on, someone should be able to tell, I am dying of anticipation here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubersaurus Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 I dunno what else to say other then that auction is one everyone will be kickin themselves for missing out on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Atari Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Ditto on that, quite a find there, especially for ebay. Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid_sky Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 holy crap.. I would wait until Monday rolls around.. alot of weekday only surfers here.. i am no wizard of anything so i cant help you out.. other than envy you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupcakus Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 I'll help you out here a bit :-) I'm no proto expert, but I am a hardware expert so I'll tackle it from that end. Here's what I make of it. Printed on the back we can see three markings. Spectravision (No Copyright or Trademark insignia, highly unusual, an inspection of another spectravision carts PCB would put this to rest) HongKong (One of the few places in the world with no copyright laws, also the cheapest place to bulk order PCB's for cartridges) 2732 (4k EPROM - Could be pirate, could be Proto, most protos are EPROM) No Label... Why? Perhaps it was just removed over time, but it's rare to see an entire label removed, UNLESS, someone wanted to get inside and change out the PCB. We can also see the soldered pins of the EPROM and the required hex inverter, unimportant really however it proves that a 2732 EPROM is used. So real deal is ruled out, an EPROM wouldn't be used with a real deal cart. Proto or pirate... given the rarity of this game in the world, and the fact the PCB looks nothing like the A-Typical proto, I would have to wager a firm guess that this is pirate. Most proto games are labeled as such, and the PCB inside is rather interesting looking, the EPROMs in proto cards are usually placed in ZIF sockets as well, as the PCB would be reused when whomever was reviewing the proto was finished. (I cant tell if this one is in a ZIF socket, because the photo is of the back of the board) It is a very good pirate, and a fantastic find, it looks like they made their own PCB's for the carts and then used less rare spectravision game's cases, removed the label and threw in a super rare game. You should ask this guy where he got his collection from maybe you can trace the origin of this cart. Hope that will hold you over until the real cart experts show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Slocum Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 We can also see the soldered pins of the EPROM and the required hex inverter, unimportant really however it proves that a 2732 EPROM is used. It might just be a 2732 PROM. If it has a window then it is an EPROM and it might be a proto since the quartz windows (allowing you to erase) make the parts more expensive. So real deal is ruled out, an EPROM wouldn't be used with a real deal cart. Some productions boards actually did use 2732 PROMs (maybe even some used EPROMs) with an inverter. -Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupcakus Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Paul is more knowing than me in these matters :-) I mearly attempted to hold him off 'till he could get a more knowlegable answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 It's really hard to tell. I've seen low producution run games that look almost like prototypes since they used EPROMs and such. But what makes me suspicious is the lack of a label. I've never seen a Spectravision label fall off, they were glued on in a strange way that made them stick forever (although they will rip or rub off). Very strange. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 3, 2002 Author Share Posted November 3, 2002 Actually, there is quite a few companies that used EPROM boards when they first started out making games, Tempest is right. I am gonna have to sacrifice one of my other Spectravision carts and crack it open. While we are at this subject, do you think this sellers Halloween is a copy ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=1395251117 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyXB Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Can you scan the front from the Board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 3, 2002 Author Share Posted November 3, 2002 Sure, here you go ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cupcakus Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 That cap is interesting, it shouldn't be necissary in this circuit. Interesting. No RF shield either, another inconsistancy with production carts. Although I'm sure there are later run production carts that did not have them, to cut costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Is it soldered in? That would say something... While we are at this subject, do you think this sellers Halloween is a copy ? It's legit (I think). The last run of Halloween carts had crappy hand written labels like that. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 4, 2002 Author Share Posted November 4, 2002 Is it soldered in? That would say something... While we are at this subject, do you think this sellers Halloween is a copy ? It's legit (I think). The last run of Halloween carts had crappy hand written labels like that. Tempest I opened another Spectravision cart and guess what the label came off like butter, they both came off so nicely and clean that I was actually able to re-attach them and you could never tell that I opened it. It looks identical to this one, even the cover over the EPROM window is the same shiny black. This one had another tiny white sticker on top of the black one with 3 numbers on it, something like 325 or something. The only difference I saw was the little white sticker, that's all. I am pretty convinced now that this is the real thing. Wow, I thought those Halloween carts without the label were copies, most excellent that they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzLee Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Hehehehe... There are quite a few Spectravision/video carts that are eproms. I have opened many of them. I created my Mangia and Bumper Bash replicas using Planet patrol and Nexar carts that contained 2732 eproms. I open them up and replaced the eprom with a new one. Works like a charm. I haven't figured out how to make the Silver/Chrome labels, but everything else looks great. My opinion is that this is a legit cart. What a score!!!!!! -Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze_ro Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 I can't imagine why a company would want to pirate a game like Mangia when there are so many better games around... but since Zellers bothered with games like Inca Gold and Challenge, who knows? --Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariKari Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Not to overstate the obvious, but is this, then, the only known copy of Mangia in NTSC? Wow! Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 5, 2002 Author Share Posted November 5, 2002 That sure would be nice but I doubt it, I bet there are quite a few laying around in people's basements collecting dust. Who knows, maybe other people who collect and don't bother visiting sites like AA or DP have one already and are just happy to display it in their collection. I think the ultimate find would be one with mint labels but I am happy with this one for now. And yeah, what a crap game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincYnoTi Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 Hehehehe...There are quite a few Spectravision/video carts that are eproms. I have opened many of them. I created my Mangia and Bumper Bash replicas using Planet patrol and Nexar carts that contained 2732 eproms. I open them up and replaced the eprom with a new one. Works like a charm. I haven't figured out how to make the Silver/Chrome labels, but everything else looks great. My opinion is that this is a legit cart. What a score!!!!!! -Lee so, if someone wanted to make a mangia replica, like you did, from an eprom, then it would look exactly like the one pictured here? so then would anyone be able to tell the difference between a replica and an original? i would think that mangia would come in a "Spectravideo" cartridge and board rather than a "Spectravision" cartridge/board as shown in these pictures. for example, a replica made from a planet patrol or nexar cartridge would be using a "Spectravision" cartridge/board. if you REALLY wanted to fool someone with a replica, you should start with a gas hog or master builder cartridge/board or find another later release that had the "Spectravideo" cartridge/board. the mangia on atariage, as well as the other later release titles, all come in "Spectravideo" cartridges. my guess is that it is a replica, but either way, still a major curiosity. what are the odds that the first NTSC mangia to be found would not have a label and also be an eprom and also be in a spectraVISION cartridge/board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted November 5, 2002 Author Share Posted November 5, 2002 Hehehehe...There are quite a few Spectravision/video carts that are eproms. I have opened many of them. I created my Mangia and Bumper Bash replicas using Planet patrol and Nexar carts that contained 2732 eproms. I open them up and replaced the eprom with a new one. Works like a charm. I haven't figured out how to make the Silver/Chrome labels, but everything else looks great. My opinion is that this is a legit cart. What a score!!!!!! -Lee so, if someone wanted to make a mangia replica, like you did, from an eprom, then it would look exactly like the one pictured here? so then would anyone be able to tell the difference between a replica and an original? i would think that mangia would come in a "Spectravideo" cartridge and board rather than a "Spectravision" cartridge/board as shown in these pictures. for example, a replica made from a planet patrol or nexar cartridge would be using a "Spectravision" cartridge/board. if you REALLY wanted to fool someone with a replica, you should start with a gas hog or master builder cartridge/board or find another later release that had the "Spectravideo" cartridge/board. the mangia on atariage, as well as the other later release titles, all come in "Spectravideo" cartridges. my guess is that it is a replica, but either way, still a major curiosity. what are the odds that the first NTSC mangia to be found would not have a label and also be an eprom and also be in a spectraVISION cartridge/board? Good point, I thought that all NTSC releases were Spectravision and all the PAL releases were Spectravideo ? Crap, now I have to go back and test my Gas Hog, Master Builder and Bumper Bash to see if they are NTSC. The no label thing doesn't worry me all that much, considering that I have no label versions of a few different games like Halloween (which I always thought was a copy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapdash Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 While we are at this subject, do you think this sellers Halloween is a copy ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=1395251117 That may be a more interesting question than you intended... That handwriting, and so I've heard that particular "possum-glory" nick, belongs to Jim Redd, ex of Pleasant Valley Video. If you don't know the name, well... back in the day, this guy had everything, but if you ordered something he didn't have at the moment, he'd make a copy. Oy. And sometimes, he had legitimate chips but no boards or cart cases. He'd make it work. So, to (not really) answer your question, yes, there's a good chance that cart is a copy, but it's also a good chance that it's a legitimate chip in a homemade board & case, and possibly even legitimate period. Does that help? :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincYnoTi Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 too bad the links to the photos of that mangia are gone. hey CPUWIZ, when are you going to start making reproductions of NTSC mangia? the repro's of Video Life, games by Answer..., on ebay look better than most original copies of the games. maybe the better question is,... when will the first reproduction be misrepresented on ebay as an original? someone could buy one of those reproduction malagai or confrontation games, scuff off the "reproduction" on the label and easily sell it on ebay to someone with more money than sense. this is a nice companion thread to the other mangia thread active in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted February 6, 2003 Author Share Posted February 6, 2003 The Malagai repros have Epyx cases and a laminated label (no worries there) and Confrontation was never released, I made up the label. Only a real idiot would think that was an original. I see your point though and I hope that nobody is foolish enough to try and sell one of my repros as an original. I spend many hours of the day scanning eBay and when I find one of them, I will know ! Guess what, that person will be reported to eBay. I do this as a service for people who love games and can't afford Malagai's and the like. I believe that these people will keep the carts and not sell them and if they do, they will be marked as reproductions, like smile_walle did with the Glib repro I made for him for christmas. If you're genuinely interested in seeing the Mangia cart, send me a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaManFan Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I do this as a service for people who love games and can't afford Malagai's and the like. I believe that these people will keep the carts and not sell them and if they do, they will be marked as reproductions, like smile_walle did with the Glib repro I made for him for christmas. Wow, this sums up what I was saying in the BBSB 5200 thread so nicely. Thanks R! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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