Graph2fnt & game programming

[Lord-Chaos]

We have seen that high quality pictures are possible with Graph2fnt, which can be used in demos or slideshows.

 

But I wonder if Graph2fnt pictures could be used in new ATARI games ?

 

I mean high-quality pictures which use many DLIs etc.

 

IMO there are several genres where these pictures could be used :

 

- graphic adventures like the Magnetic Scrolls games.With the proper technique the pictures of Guild of thieves or The Pawn could have been similar to the ATARI ST/AMIGA graphics, but unfortunately the XL versions only show standard Graphics 15 4-color graphics.

 

But new adventure games with static graphics could use this technique, since only about 50-75% of the screen is used (rest for text window), so enough CPU-time would be left, although disk-access while the parser is working could be problem (screen must be switched off).

 

This would be a little more problematic if someone tries to port for example "Zak MC Kracken" or writes something similar since such games have larger-than-screen areas which require scrolling.

 

- games with many static pictures like the Cinemaware classics - Defender of the Crown etc. These games have not much animation in them.Especially Defender of the Crown - usually only a bit color-cycling on the AMIGA, that could be replaced with character-animation.

 

- role-playing games like "The Bard´s Tale" or similar, which display monster graphics in a window.I once did a Bard´s Tale - clone using the 256 color mode, it wasn´t finished, but the demo is available.

With Graph2fnt higher resolution pics are possible without too much CPU-time loss, since the AMIGA pictures I used are 16 color or less.

 

This would also work with the dungeon graphics, which is mostly static.With character animation, even something like burning torches could be made.

 

- most turn-based strategy games have not much action and something

like "King´s Bounty" (prequel to Heroes of Might&Magic) would be possible,it was done for the C64.Their graphics is mostly static and units don´t move smoothly (just jump to the next position).

 

-Board games like Chess could be done, too or business/trading simulations like

"Kaiser" could be done like the ATARI ST/AMIGA versions (there is an graphically enhanced version of "Kaiser" on the ATARI ST.Kaiser is

a German trading/strategy game,released in the 80s).

 

I think it´s not useful for 3D wireframe-action games or other games which manipulate the screen too often and unpredictable (color clashes would be a problem and CPU-time shortage).

 

And 2D action- platform , space- games could not use "highest quality" pictures - means it would not make sense to have a game with superb graphics and max DLI changes but running only at 1fps , but this would be no problem IMO since even on the AMIGA the best graphics modes weren´t used for ingame graphics , so for action games a "light" version

of this technique could be used.

 

Thimo

[analmux]

...And 2D action- platform , space- games could not use "highest quality" pictures - means it would not make sense to have a game with superb graphics and max DLI changes but running only at 1fps  , but this would be no problem IMO since even on the AMIGA the best graphics modes weren´t used for ingame graphics , so for action games a "light" version

of this technique could be used.

 

Thimo

 

Yes, true.....wait for the SmartFont demo, my current project. It's a graphicsmode similar to G2F or MCS, but with a bit less colorcells (large/coarse color blocks) so far less DLIs needed. All in the hypercharmode I'm playing with. In this mode some amazing things must be possible.

[Tezz]

Hi,

 

analmux..

wait for the SmartFont demo, my current project. It's a graphicsmode similar to G2F or MCS, but with a bit less colorcells (large/coarse color blocks) so far less DLIs needed. All in the hypercharmode I'm playing with. In this mode some amazing things must be possible.

Any progress on this 'mux? it sounds very interesting. I think these programs could be made into game construction tools which would cut down on the amount of work involved and will make for more creativity not having to put most of your efforts into getting the code to work. Using all of these type of tools will make the task fun. It's not nessasarily a lamers game construction kit but just usefull tools to cut down the amount of toil involved

 

Personally I would love to see a map designer tool appear utilising simpler DLI and PMG routines for the static areas such as the scores etc. and a playfield area built from tiled chrarcters also using simple DLIs. with scrolling routines. This way just the actual "game" code itself will need to be writen which will of course be coded by hand.

[analmux]

Hi,

 

analmux..

wait for the SmartFont demo, my current project. It's a graphicsmode similar to G2F or MCS, but with a bit less colorcells (large/coarse color blocks) so far less DLIs needed. All in the hypercharmode I'm playing with. In this mode some amazing things must be possible.

 

Any progress on this 'mux? it sounds very interesting. I think these programs could be made into game construction tools which would cut down on the amount of work involved and will make for more creativity not having to put most of your efforts into getting the code to work. Using all of these type of tools will make the task fun. It's not nessasarily a lamers game construction kit but just usefull tools to cut down the amount of toil involved

 

Well, ...progress: The ideas of how to make it work are getting clearer for me every day. By the way: SmartFont is NOT a graphics editor but a very special graphics mode that's generated with Antic 4 with PM underlays (MCS) and Pseudo-PM-bases (to be explained later). As softwaresprites are needed, a complex or Smart font-handler is needed, that's why I called it SmartFont. I'm planning to use this graphicsmode in the Flashcart game I have in mind, and for that game, yes, I will eventually write a levelmap editor.

 

As I'm going on a camping trip with my love I will have no time to demonstrate anything coming week, but wait for more.

 

By the way....Tezz, as you are rather new on this forum, did you see my scrolling MCS demo of a Nintendo-Mario-3 Levelmap?

 

Search for scrolling MCS topic and download it (in this (8bit) section). Or look here:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43043

 

This is the achievable graphics quality with PM underlays AND scrolling. Now imagine some softwaresprites buzzing around on the screen and a little parallax-scrolling and you'll have SmartFont graphics.

 

By the way: Sourcecode is included, so you may understand a little bit (if you're a coder) how it works. However the scrolling MCS graphicsmode is still a prototype gfx-mode, and it doens't make use of Pseudo-PM-bases yet (only something similar).

 

greetings,

[Tezz]

Analmux

By the way: SmartFont is NOT a graphics editor but a very special graphics mode that's generated with Antic 4 with PM underlays (MCS) and Pseudo-PM-bases

 

Yes I did realise this, I guess I was talking about two things at the same time. Your new mode idea sounds like a great idea. A really would love to see a good level/map designer appear soon using such a mode. I'm wondering how much of an overhead in performance your new mode will require especially using a software sprite routine.

 

Soon I hope we will have the following great development tools for games:

G2F for title/loading screens

RMT for music tracks

Smartfont or similar routine for in-game graphics mode

Smartfont level designer with integrated software sprite editor for total control over level construction.

 

By the way....Tezz, as you are rather new on this forum, did you see my scrolling MCS demo of a Nintendo-Mario-3 Levelmap?

I did see your Nintendo-Mario-3 posts earlier, I have been reading through the forums for some time before I joined as it were. Mario looks like an impressive project underway, It will be very good to see the included software sprites "buzzing around". Have you seen the unfinished Pacland sources that the Harequin guys have on their jetboot jack site?

That was looking good, it's a shame that the Harlequin games never saw the light of day.

 

Look forward to your progress on Smartfont and Mario.

Enjoy your trip

[rdefabri]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but as I continue to re-learn the A8 platform for programming purposes, I stumbled on Graph2Font.  Not 100% certain what it is, but I'm interpreting it as a program that allows you to display detailed graphics using only characters?

 

If that's true, the value is clear.  As to the OP's question, I could see many applications for this.  Seeing that it's a near-20 year old thread, I'm sure that's been realized in some fashion.

 

Can anyone provide the "Cliffs Notes" version to the above?  Thanks!!!

[tebe]

this is the secret knowledge

[+MrFish]

4 minutes ago, tebe said:

this is the secret knowledge

Haha... (from the author...) 

 

[Beeblebrox]

@rdefabriyup, it is still going strong.

 

More info and latest version here along with tutorials :

 

https://g2f.atari8.info/

 

G2f images have been used many times to create game splash screens. 

 

There have been some great G2f creations over the years. Takes quite a bit of time, patience and experience to create one. 

 

 

I do love the G2f images but I am mainly a Rastaconverter image fan. See my signature for a link to the Rastaconverter thread. 

 

Downside to Rastaconverter images is that it takes up a lot of cpu resources, dli's, pmgs, etc to display an image, hence not suitable as a background for games like platformers, arcade games, etc. However great potential for graphic adventure games. 

 

I'd imagine that G2f images still take up a lot of resources, although not as much as Rastaconverter images. 

 

 

[+MrFish]

5 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

Takes quite a bit of time, patience and experience to create one. 

 

5 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:

I'd imagine that G2f images still take up a lot of resources...

 

These can all vary quite a bit, depending what is to be accomplished.

 

[Beeblebrox]

@MrFishsure I must admit to having glanced at graph2fnt last year and watched a video or two. It looked very involved to get a really detailed and colourful image. I am sure simpler ones are a little easier. I must try the software sometime. 

[rdefabri]

My thinking was more like some of the G2F stuff I saw on YouTube - where there's a scrolling background, or something like a graphic adventure.  Obviously, the possibilities are there, restricted by difficulty and memory

[+MrFish]

26 minutes ago, rdefabri said:

...or something like a graphic adventure.  Obviously, the possibilities are there, restricted by difficulty and memory

 

If you're just converting a static screen image from some platform to the Atari 8-bit, you're already ahead of the game with the pixel art in hand. Mainly, for something like that, G2F is going to allow you to utilize the 5th color in Antic 4 (assuming it's something for that mode), pm graphics, and dli's however you want.

 

[+MrFish]

1 hour ago, Beeblebrox said:

@MrFishsure I must admit to having glanced at graph2fnt last year and watched a video or two. It looked very involved to get a really detailed and colourful image. I am sure simpler ones are a little easier. I must try the software sometime. 

I converted both of these in about 10 - 15 minutes. Initial scaling of the images (to graphics 9 pixels) and converting to 16 levels of gray was done in Photoshop. The rest was easy. I'm not using PMG's here for image enhancement though; I only used those to mask off the left and right edges of the screen.

 

 

 

 

[+MrFish]

One use for Graph2Font, which may not be so obvious, can be seen in this thread: Pole Position - Car Detail Ideas. All images were created in Graph2Font and used by @playsoft in development of his interactive demo. I'm not sure exactly which methods he used to extract the data; but he only had the XEX files to work from, not the G2F source files. Graph2Font is capable of outputting various types of useful files besides just XEX and G2F document files, though.

 

[tebe]

16 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

I'd imagine that G2f images still take up a lot of resources, although not as much as Rastaconverter images. 

RastaConverter (RC) is PGR mode (https://g2f.atari8.info/g2f_tools/pgr/)

[rdefabri]

What about rendering graphics in specific Atari graphics modes?

 

Example - I want to mock up a bitmap graphic playfield (say a planet or something)...are there tools that can help with that?  Or is G2F the right tool?