Some FB 2 games have bugs

[kevin242]

I love my new FB 2 but there is no denying some of the games are unplayable (IMO)

Caverns of Mars and Lunar Lander have so much flicker that they are headache

enducing. Asteroids Deluxe has some wierd video anomalies, the score flickers and

moves so fast up and down that it is nausiating, also Space Duel has some wierd

graphic effects like some frames are overlapping or something, you can see sprites

for a second that arent there. So far that is all I noticed.

 

Not to be negative, the output is just gorgeous and the other games look the best I

have ever seen them, but I get the feeling the homebrew/hacks were designed for

an emulator and just dont work well on the real machine? Just a guess.

 

Other then those complaints I love it, it's a neat toy and I finally unplugged my c64DTV!

 

 

 

BTW I have the version with the Quadrun voice "Quadrun Quadrun Quadrun!" so this is

the later revision.

[ATARIeric]

which millipede did you get with the rev.b FB2 ? God I hope UPS brings mine tomorrow.

[Room 34]

I agree about the new games. I am curious who programmed these... and why the homebrew "masters" around here weren't (more) involved. Asteroids Deluxe and Space Duel are cool, but glitchy, and Yars' Return is all double images. It's not only unplayable, but it makes my eyes water.

 

Adventure II is at least playable, although some stuff is a little weird (the areas with red backgrounds and dark green walls look really bad on my TV, and of course there are the flicker issues). Arcade Pong seems fine, but I'm not terribly interested in it. I haven't tried the other new games yet.

[Laner]

They only had two months to complete the new games, which explains why (for the most part) the homebrewers weren't interested and the ones that were whipped up on the fly are less than great. And supposedly the licensing terms weren't particularly favorable towards the homebrewers either.

 

For me, Yars' Return is the only one that's unplayable (due to the doubling). Some of the others are certainly lacking, but not completely worthless. I hope that down the line someone can extract the new titles and fix 'em up a bit.

Edited October 20, 2005 by Laner

[+batari]

For me, Yars' Return is the only one that's unplayable (due to the doubling).  Some of the others are certainly lacking, but not completely worthless.

Yars' Return is unplayable for me as well. Lunar Lander and Caverns of Mars give me migraines due to all the unnecessary flicker.

I hope that down the line someone can extract the new titles and fix 'em up a bit.

951679[/snapback]

This had to happen sooner or later - I found that it's possible to dump the games from the FB2. Yes, I have Caverns of Mars on my hard drive right now that I extracted from my FB2 due to a fancy utility I wrote coupled with some hardware hacking (it had to happen sooner or later...!) To my utter amazement, it is a 16k game! Also, it's much less annoying to play on an emulator.

 

I intend to go into the code and see if I can remove that annoying flicker. It's not that bad of a game, really... but that flicker is beyond annoying on a TV. Or is this one of the games that is going to be fixed?

 

(And no, I don't think it's a good idea to post the binaries of these new games... I don't need Atari's lawyers calling me... but it's probably legal for me to tell others how to extract the games themselves...)

[kevin242]

Im not suprised Caverns of MArs look's better on an emulator. They obviously never

tested this stuff on a regular tv (despite what one person who said he was involved

with the creation of the fb 2 said (not curt) I tried the fb 2 with a plasma wide screen,

a commodore cm-141, 1084s, and a reg old mid 90's CRT TV all the games that have

problems cont to have problems on ANY TV) They prob just assumed the games would work properly on a television....

 

 

I understand the c revision of fb 2 will have fixed versions of the games.

[TheWriteDude]

I think Yar's Return is okay, so long as you don't focus your attention much at the doubling effect in the center of the screen.

 

But I have to agree that the original games made for the FB2, and extreme hacks (Asteroids Deluxe and Space Duel), are either unplayable or difficult to look at as you play them. Still, I'm quite impressed to learn here that these games were developed in two months.

Edited October 22, 2005 by TheWriteDude

[+batari]

I think Yar's Revenge is okay, so long as you don't focus your attention much at the doubling effect in the center of the screen.

 

But I have to agree that the original games made for the FB2, and extreme hacks (Asteroids Deluxe and Space Duel), are either unplayable or difficult to look at as you play them. Still, I'm quite impressed to learn here that these games were developed in two months.

951922[/snapback]

I just got Yars' Return dumped. The game is 8k, but it uses Superchip RAM. It's producing 254 scanlines and 264 scanlines in alternate frames, which is probably what is causing the doubling and making it unplayable on my television. It even jumps noticably on an emulator, which is somewhat curious - the programmer had to have known that the game didn't work quite right.

 

However, it is actually playable on an emulator.

 

I'll look into the code a bit to see how easy it would be to fix the scanline problem... though I imagine that someone else is already doing this...

[mstulir]

Im not suprised Caverns of MArs look's better on an emulator.  They obviously never

tested this stuff on a regular tv (despite what one person who said he was involved

with the creation of the fb 2 said (not curt) I tried the fb 2 with a plasma wide screen,

a commodore cm-141, 1084s, and a reg old mid 90's CRT TV all the games that have

problems cont to have problems on ANY TV)  They prob just assumed the games would work properly on a  television.... 

 

 

I understand the c revision of fb 2 will have fixed versions of the games.

951743[/snapback]

 

The games WERE tested on regular televisions. As Curt has explained a number of times, he attempted to line up some homebrew authors to do the programming and did not meet with any success. The games were done by an outside programming house with a very limited development window.

 

Being part of the team, I am one of the harshest critics of the unit and the games. It is a very fair criticism to say that those games could have been done better given a longer development cycle, or if they were in the hands of some of the homebrew authors. Saying that we never bothered to test stuff on TV's or just assumed things would work OK is completely incorrect.

Edited October 21, 2005 by mstulir

[Curt Vendel]

Congratulations to Fred Quimby for dumping the FB2 ROM and yes, I knew it would happen sooner or later and how curious for it to be in such a simple fashion, nice work.

 

Yes, I would advise it best not to post the images publicly but you certainly are not barred from posting how to do it.

 

Yars' Return has already been updated and Lunar Lander is nearly completed with CoM slated next, but I'm sure if will be fun for you guys to examine the code and see how the new games were written and what mistakes may have occured.

 

 

Curt

 

For me, Yars' Return is the only one that's unplayable (due to the doubling).  Some of the others are certainly lacking, but not completely worthless.

Yars' Return is unplayable for me as well. Lunar Lander and Caverns of Mars give me migraines due to all the unnecessary flicker.

I hope that down the line someone can extract the new titles and fix 'em up a bit.

951679[/snapback]

This had to happen sooner or later - I found that it's possible to dump the games from the FB2. Yes, I have Caverns of Mars on my hard drive right now that I extracted from my FB2 due to a fancy utility I wrote coupled with some hardware hacking (it had to happen sooner or later...!) To my utter amazement, it is a 16k game! Also, it's much less annoying to play on an emulator.

 

I intend to go into the code and see if I can remove that annoying flicker. It's not that bad of a game, really... but that flicker is beyond annoying on a TV. Or is this one of the games that is going to be fixed?

 

(And no, I don't think it's a good idea to post the binaries of these new games... I don't need Atari's lawyers calling me... but it's probably legal for me to tell others how to extract the games themselves...)

951689[/snapback]

[+FujiSkunk]

I was playing with my (rev. A) Flashback 2 last night, and I noticed Battlezone also seems a little buggy. The radar is not a perfect circle, and the screen occasionally jumps, as if an extra scan line gets thrown in every now and then. Is this from the game code getting tweaked, or just because of the slight incompatibilities between the FB2 hardware and actual 2600 hardware? The very left of the screen also has an interesting distortion effect, but I'm assuming that's the result of the overseas engineers' contributions.

 

Plus, for the rev. C units, the developers may want to move Battlezone's position in the game list. Right now it's kind of obvious that it was a replacement for a certain game that starts with "T."

[vdub_bobby]

Congratulations to Fred Quimby for dumping the FB2 ROM and yes, I knew it would happen sooner or later and how curious for it to be in such a simple fashion, nice work.

 

Yes, I would advise it best not to post the images publicly but you certainly are not barred from posting how to do it.

 

Yars' Return has already been updated and Lunar Lander is nearly completed with CoM slated next, but I'm sure if will be fun for you guys to examine the code and see how the new games were written and what mistakes may have occured.

 

 

Curt

Would it be ok to post the source?

 

(And I've never understood how you could even write a game without a stable scanline count. You don't need a long development cycle to do that )

[DEBRO]

Would it be ok to post the source?

Wouldn't that be the same as posting the ROM image? A person could take the source and make a ROM image.

[vdub_bobby]

Would it be ok to post the source?

Wouldn't that be the same as posting the ROM image? A person could take the source and make a ROM image.

952101[/snapback]

Well, yeah. But I dunno what goes in this situation. I was wondering what was implied by this:

but I'm sure if will be fun for you guys to examine the code and see how the new games were written and what mistakes may have occured.

[keilbaca]

Wow, that's awesome that you got the roms dumped!

 

Maybe you can make the cluster of asteroids that follow you on Asteroids Deluxe to be a bit smarter

[Tempest]

Plus, for the rev. C units, the developers may want to move Battlezone's position in the game list.  Right now it's kind of obvious that it was a replacement for a certain game that starts with "T."

952023[/snapback]

 

Ok I bite. What game was it?

 

Tempest

[vdub_bobby]

Plus, for the rev. C units, the developers may want to move Battlezone's position in the game list.  Right now it's kind of obvious that it was a replacement for a certain game that starts with "T."

952023[/snapback]

 

Ok I bite. What game was it?

 

Tempest

952115[/snapback]

Wasn't it Thrust?

[Tempest]

Plus, for the rev. C units, the developers may want to move Battlezone's position in the game list.  Right now it's kind of obvious that it was a replacement for a certain game that starts with "T."

952023[/snapback]

 

Ok I bite. What game was it?

 

Tempest

952115[/snapback]

Wasn't it Thrust?

952117[/snapback]

 

Oh yeah... Now I remember. I was racking my brain for Atari produced games and all I could come up with was Track & Field.

 

Tempest

[DEBRO]

Well, yeah.  But I dunno what goes in this situation.  I was wondering what was implied by this:

but I'm sure if will be fun for you guys to examine the code and see how the new games were written and what mistakes may have occured.

952105[/snapback]

Ahhh....got ya.

[mos6507]

Yars' Return has already been updated and Lunar Lander is nearly completed with CoM slated next, but I'm sure if will be fun for you guys to examine the code and see how the new games were written and what mistakes may have occured.

 

How many revisions is Flashback 2 going to see? I'm just wondering where these updated ROMs are going to appear in product-form.

[keilbaca]

Its definitely not barred because if you do perform the dumping, you have the real hardware, so it is completely legal. And also if you actually own a FB2, its legal to hold the roms that have been dumped already.

 

Wow, that's great Curt, any word if maybe this version of the FB2 might, just might have a pause switch? And maybe make the cluster that follows you on Asteroids Deluxe be just a tad bit... smarter?

 

Congratulations to Fred Quimby for dumping the FB2 ROM and yes, I knew it would happen sooner or later and how curious for it to be in such a simple fashion, nice work.

 

Yes, I would advise it best not to post the images publicly but you certainly are not barred from posting how to do it.

 

Yars' Return has already been updated and Lunar Lander is nearly completed with CoM slated next, but I'm sure if will be fun for you guys to examine the code and see how the new games were written and what mistakes may have occured.

 

 

Curt

 

For me, Yars' Return is the only one that's unplayable (due to the doubling).  Some of the others are certainly lacking, but not completely worthless.

Yars' Return is unplayable for me as well. Lunar Lander and Caverns of Mars give me migraines due to all the unnecessary flicker.

I hope that down the line someone can extract the new titles and fix 'em up a bit.

951679[/snapback]

This had to happen sooner or later - I found that it's possible to dump the games from the FB2. Yes, I have Caverns of Mars on my hard drive right now that I extracted from my FB2 due to a fancy utility I wrote coupled with some hardware hacking (it had to happen sooner or later...!) To my utter amazement, it is a 16k game! Also, it's much less annoying to play on an emulator.

 

I intend to go into the code and see if I can remove that annoying flicker. It's not that bad of a game, really... but that flicker is beyond annoying on a TV. Or is this one of the games that is going to be fixed?

 

(And no, I don't think it's a good idea to post the binaries of these new games... I don't need Atari's lawyers calling me... but it's probably legal for me to tell others how to extract the games themselves...)

951689[/snapback]

951982[/snapback]

[Curt Vendel]

Hi Glenn,

 

Rev C should be the last rev to go out, itll have the incopatibilities addressed and the corrected games added in, when they start shipping and where in 06' I will post to let everyone know.

 

FB2 is not going to be like the Jakks 10in1 or other products where what it is, is it and get used to it and all of the issues (like the Ion Zone not moving in the 10in1 or the totally messed up Adventure). FB1 might've gotten updates, but it was a single run product of 575,000 and that was it, so it didn't make sense to update it.

 

Some other things are in the works for FB2 and I may be able to leak a photo in the next week or so on a possible next FB2 based product, we'll see...

 

 

 

Curt

 

Yars' Return has already been updated and Lunar Lander is nearly completed with CoM slated next, but I'm sure if will be fun for you guys to examine the code and see how the new games were written and what mistakes may have occured.

 

How many revisions is Flashback 2 going to see? I'm just wondering where these updated ROMs are going to appear in product-form.

952135[/snapback]

[Thomas Jentzsch]

It is probably not allowed to post the binaries or not even the disassembly, but if you mange to fix those annoying frame rate problems, you could post a patch, couldn't you?

[Lost Monkey]

The games WERE tested on regular televisions.  As Curt has explained a number of times, he attempted to line up some homebrew authors to do the programming and did not meet with any success.  The games were done by an outside programming house with a very limited development window.

 

Being part of the team, I am one of the harshest critics of the unit and the games.  It is a very fair criticism to say that those games could have been done better given a longer development cycle, or if they were in the hands of some of the homebrew authors.  Saying that we never bothered to test stuff on TV's or just assumed things would work OK is completely incorrect.

951970[/snapback]

 

How authentically "Atari" is that - working under the same type of conditions to create new games, as Tod Frye did for Pac-Man. Hardcore!

[ATARIeric]

Some other things are in the works for FB2 and I may be able to leak a photo in the next week or so on a possible next FB2 based product, we'll see...

 

 

 

Curt

 

Hmmm, "Things" he says Trying to read Curts mind is a hard thing to do but im guessing we will be able to solder the24 pin cart slot directly to the motherboard.

Edited October 22, 2005 by ATARIeric