kevin242 Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 How were the games chose for the Flashback 2?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) Choosing a broad ranging from extremely simple for entry level gamers to longer and more complex games for more savvy gamers. A mixture of single, 1 or 2 player and 2 player specific games A mixture of some of the better unrelease, Atari owned prototypes. A poll out to homebrewers to see who would want their games into a new Atari product. A selection of coin-ops and popular Atari computer games that had never been done on the 2600 platform. Then the hidden paddle games to allow gamers to enjoy some of the best paddle games while not requiring the console cost to rise due to the inclusion of paddle controllers, but instead to allow those with paddles or willing to purchase them on their own to find the games and play them. Lastly, to minimize overlap with the FB1 games listing. PS - Please don't subject a thread like the way you did this one in the future, its rather rude. If you feel it is so imperative to contact me, then PM me or directly email me, those links are at the bottom of all messages posted by me. Curt How were the games chose for the Flashback 2?? 944133[/snapback] Edited October 7, 2005 by Curt Vendel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin242 Posted October 8, 2005 Author Share Posted October 8, 2005 sorry about the subject, thanx for the info. I was just wondering what the process was behind the choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 What was so rude about about the subject ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 What was so rude about about the subject ?944699[/snapback] The original title of this thread was, "Yo, Atari man-bitch! Gimme da info!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 LOL! What was so rude about about the subject ?944699[/snapback] The original title of this thread was, "Yo, Atari man-bitch! Gimme da info!" 944702[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbeacher Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 likewise I don't see a problem with the question. the way you reply to people's posts by having your answer above the quote is rather annoying. sorry if that sounds rude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 (edited) Well the rude part comes in that he already asked the question in this thread, didn't like the answer and decided to direct it to Curt directly in a new thread. Also - you generally don't post messages directed at a certain person only in an open forum. You ask them in email or personal messages. It's a bit like standing outside an apartment building screaming someone's name until they come, or doing the same in the middle of a crowded street. It's not illegal, but it certainly makes people feel uncomfortable and is generally in poor taste. If everyone that wanted Curt's attention and answers did that, AtariAge would be taken over with such posts. Edited October 9, 2005 by wgungfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin242 Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 (edited) Well the rude part comes in that he already asked the question in this thread, didn't like the answer and decided to direct it to Curt directly in a new thread. take it easy... geesh. It's not that I didnt like the answer I didnt get one (except for a smartass response from.. hmmm.. YOU actually!), that is why I decided to rephrase it, but in retrospect (no pun) I should of sent a PM. Altho I thought other people might be interested in how the games were chose. What I really wonder is were all the games actually played before the final release (I dont expect an answer... ) because some of the games altho they seem really fun (like Asteroids Deluxe for example) have wierd video problems that make them unplayable. I wonder what the quality control is like at Atari, like do they have someone independently try out the stuff they publish? Another example would be Retro Atari Classics for the Nintendo DS didn't anyone play this who is not associated with it's development before they released it? I would think the cost of having an independent Atari playtester would pay for itself (how many Retro Atari's could they have sold it is already in the bargain bin?) Edited October 9, 2005 by kevin242 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Well the rude part comes in that he already asked the question in this thread, didn't like the answer and decided to direct it to Curt directly in a new thread. Also - you generally don't post messages directed at a certain person only in an open forum. You ask them in email or personal messages. It's a bit like standing outside an apartment building screaming someone's name until they come, or doing the same in the middle of a crowded street. It's not illegal, but it certainly makes people feel uncomfortable and is generally in poor taste. If everyone that wanted Curt's attention and answers did that, AtariAge would be taken over with such posts. 944895[/snapback] What answer? His question was ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 What answer? His question was ignored. 944993[/snapback] No it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Well the rude part comes in that he already asked the question in this thread, didn't like the answer and decided to direct it to Curt directly in a new thread. take it easy... geesh. It's not that I didnt like the answer I didnt get one Sure you did. (except for a smartass response from.. hmmm.. YOU actually!), I was on the FB2 team, and was the only one who saw the post or cared to answer. You didn't like the answer and decided to direct it to the project leader publicly. Plain and simple. All you asked was "How were the games chosen?" Pretty generalized question, and a generalized answer was given. *Now* you actually started asking more specific questions in this thread and you got more specific answers. As far as quality control of these games, yes, there were plenty of people playing the games as they (the newer ones and hacks) were being developed. When I played them on my pc to check (emulator wise, since I had the roms), everything worked great with none of the problems people are experiencing. These issues cropped up because of problems in the fabrication stage (which was covered in other threads, so I won't rehash it here). Some of the other issues (people getting b&w or rolling) are syncing problems with modern TV sets. For example the demo unit I had worked flawlessly on one of my newer sony tv sets, had a ton of roll/etc. problems on a small vcr/tv combo I tried it on, and I couldn't get a screen at all on my ATI tv card on my pc. In fact on the tv card all I had a was a frozen, somewhat distorted title screen. As for other Atari games (like the Retro Atari Classics for the DS) I can't comment on that, I wasn't involved with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokovec Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 I think that it's rather cool that the FB2 design team is willing to take time out of their day to answer our 20/20 hindsight type questions. As an Engineer working in broadcast systems design I have to spec out and purchase millions of dollars worth of professional gear every year. I hate it when I am forced to purchase a consumer product because tech support is almost always inexistent. I pay extra so that I can have a quality product as well as direct access to the designers. We should be grateful that Curt and his team make themselves available to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 (edited) What answer? His question was ignored. 944993[/snapback] No it wasn't. 945047[/snapback] By your own admission it most certainly was ignored.... I was on the FB2 team, and was the only one who saw the post or cared to answer. You didn't like the answer and decided to direct it to the project leader publicly. Plain and simple. 945059[/snapback] The one and only response was that there was a coin toss and beer involved. That sounds like sarcasm. If you truly were involved with the development I would think you would be more interested in a legitimate question, and maybe even take the opportunity to boast about the product. The bugginess of the FB2 with all the sound issues, games not working, etc should prompt those involved (IMO) to be more supportive and excited about peoples interest. Instead there is sarcasm and lack or response. I dont get that..at all. Edited October 9, 2005 by jetset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 By your own admission it most certainly was ignored.... Absolutely not, I think you should read a little better. I'm a member of the FB2 team and I answered. He didn't like the answer given, wasn't specific to what he was looking for, so he decided to ask the team leader. The one and only response was that there was a coin toss and beer involved. That sounds like sarcasm. That's your problem if that's how you take it. If you truly were involved with the development I was on the team, worked on both manuals and other material, the name's in the credits. The hardware development was done by the engineering team, which is listed in the credits. I would think you would be more interested in a legitimate question, and maybe even take the opportunity to boast about the product. I didn't see a legitimate question, I saw a vague generic one that said "How were the games picked." Then the same question adressed to Curt directly, and then some followup posts that got more specific. There's plenty of boasting going on elsewhere, I have no need to. The bugginess of the FB2 with all the sound issues, games not working, etc should prompt those involved (IMO) to be more supportive and excited about peoples interest. Luckily, the rest of the world doesn't stand on your lack of judgement. The pages full of threads on the FB2, posts upon posts by Curt and others on the issues, show otherwise. We *have* been very supportive and gone out of the way to answer questions on those issues. Even a simple search on posts by Curt related to the subject shows 60+ posts (not including FB1 and FB3 related posts) alone. How many other project teams from Atari are that accessible? Instead there is sarcasm and lack or response. I dont get that..at all. 945084[/snapback] As stated, all the time and effort given on these forums participating in almost 5 pages full of Flashback topics and yet there's still accusations by people like you. All because of one thread. I don't get that..at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercat Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 As far as quality control of these games, yes, there were plenty of people playing the games as they (the newer ones and hacks) were being developed. When I played them on my pc to check (emulator wise, since I had the roms), everything worked great with none of the problems people are experiencing. These issues cropped up because of problems in the fabrication stage (which was covered in other threads, so I won't rehash it here). Some of the other issues (people getting b&w or rolling) are syncing problems with modern TV sets. For example the demo unit I had worked flawlessly on one of my newer sony tv sets, had a ton of roll/etc. problems on a small vcr/tv combo I tried it on, and I couldn't get a screen at all on my ATI tv card on my pc. In fact on the tv card all I had a was a frozen, somewhat distorted title screen. The problem you describe is a common one with homebrew authors, since emulators and many modern television sets will try to "patch over" vertical sync problems. Although this is a good thing when trying to play previously-written games whose programmers slipped up a little bit, it can be very bad for "proofing" purposes. Hopefully emulator authors will include a function to report minimum and maximum scan line counts (with a function to reset it, since a few games--especially 1K minigames--have bogus scan line counts when starting a new games and this can't always be fixed without adding too much code). Otherwise, I sometimes include temporary code before a "wait for timer to expire" loop to ensure make sure there's still enough time on the timer. If there isn't, I'll show a white screen for a few frames, thus ensuring that any timings that are too close will be noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 likewise I don't see a problem with the question. the way you reply to people's posts by having your answer above the quote is rather annoying. sorry if that sounds rude 944870[/snapback] Ooooh! I sense a "top posting vs. bottom posting flamewar" coming on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin242 Posted October 10, 2005 Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 (edited) A couple things, first of all I would like to say that overall I love the Flashback 2 and I am totally happy with my purchase despite some problems there are plenty of great games and some I dont have on cartridge. The Flashback 2 is the absolute best of the TV games systems so far (slightly better then the c64dtv IMO due to the ease in which you can use any joystick, otherwise I give 64dtv an edge in software quality control and functionality). Also I think FB2 looks cool. It's a shame that some of the games have video problems, but it is not just with "modern tv sets" I have my FB 2 plugged into a Commodore cm141 composite moniter and nobody is going to accuse that ancient beast of "modern." I do appreciate your answer in this thread (and Curt's), but I agree with Jetset your response to my original question came off sarcastic. Edited October 10, 2005 by kevin242 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 It's a shame that some of the games have video problems, but it is not just with "modern tv sets" I have my FB 2 plugged into a Commodore cm141 composite moniter and nobody is going to accuse that ancient beast of "modern." 945421[/snapback] I was refering to it working better on my modern (projection tube) tv set. I'm aware of problems with some older sets and newer lcd sets. I have a C141 somewhere as well as a few other Commodore monitors, I'll have to try it out whenI pick one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Is Curt or has Curt become the modern day Larry Edmunds/Steve Mayer or Joe Decuir (orig. 2600 designers)... don't get too BH'd curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 The problem you describe is a common one with homebrew authors, since emulators and many modern television sets will try to "patch over" vertical sync problems. Although this is a good thing when trying to play previously-written games whose programmers slipped up a little bit, it can be very bad for "proofing" purposes.I may have already said this, but I have a 17" LCD TV/Monitor that goes nuts on most 2600 games, even ones from Atari! It's very picky about scan line count. At least Combat works. I'm pretty sure I ran Red Box/Blue Box on it at some point, which means my scan line counts were good. Or did I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarilovesyou Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 If the playtesters, or Curt himself, are easily offended over reviews which are BAD about their product, I've got a couple words: BOO and HOO! Get some thicker skin people. And if development team doesn't want to listen to disgruntled customers who ask real questions, then don't give responses that(in some cases) are full of REAL rudeness. Just suck up the criticisms, learn from them and move on. The product is done. All the bitching in the world is worthless now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 If the playtesters, or Curt himself, are easily offended over reviews which are BAD about their product, I've got a couple words: BOO and HOO! Methinks you're misunderstanding. The "rude" comments were a debate (a high-spirited debate, to be sure) on how to ask and answer questions about the product, not about criticism of the product itself (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). The product is done. All the bitching in the world is worthless now. 948474[/snapback] Actually the product will have at least one more revision, currently in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin242 Posted October 15, 2005 Author Share Posted October 15, 2005 The podcast Curt did really goes into the details of the games and he addresses the issue with some of sync problems. It basically answered my question. Dont get the wrong idea, I like the FB 2. It's a great product, and if anything I was dissappointed that Asteroids Deluxe did not work properly. Today I tried it on a modern TV and while the sync problem was not as bad it still was unbearable (for me at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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