Hard question about Lynx

[Merlee]

Hi Fellows

 

 

I have a question from a contest on a french videogame site on the internet.

 

And this one is among the difficult questions.

 

 

Here is the question :

 

The handheld gaming system Lynx of Atari was a ...

 

- 8 bits

- 16 bits

- 32 bits

 

 

http://www.gamekult.com/concours/5ans/reponse.html?id=181

 

 

CPU, GPU or sound ? Actually, we don't know exactly and only one choice is possible.

 

 

Any idea

 

 

Thx for you help

[Gregory DG]

http://www.ataritimes.com/lynx/

 

[kevin242]

Hi Fellows 

 

 

I have a question from a contest on a french videogame site on the internet.

 

And this one is among the difficult questions.

 

 

Here is the question :

 

The handheld gaming system Lynx of Atari was a ...

 

- 8 bits

- 16 bits

- 32 bits

 

 

http://www.gamekult.com/concours/5ans/reponse.html?id=181

 

 

CPU, GPU or sound ? Actually, we don't know exactly and only one choice is possible.

 

 

Any idea 

 

 

Thx for you help 

972717[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

8-bit

[The_Laird]

Although Mikey was a 65C02 custom 8-bit chip Suzy was a 16-bit chip so which is it. I've always gone with 16-bit. Mainly because the graphics and sound are both of that quality. How many 8-bit machines do you know that can do all the custom hardware tecniques the Lynx can do.

Edited November 28, 2005 by mr.kizza

[TailChao]

Although Mikey was a 65C02 custom 8-bit chip Suzy was a 16-bit chip so which is it. I've always gone with 16-bit. Mainly because the graphics and sound are both of that quality. How many 8-bit machines do you know that can do all the custom hardware tecniques the Lynx can do.

973034[/snapback]

The TurboGrafx *bricked*

[Merlee]

Okay, but how we judge the power of a system ?

 

by the main cpu ?

 

or by the Graphics Processing Units ?

 

When can we say that it is a 8/16/32 system ?

 

Dreamcast was a 128 bit because his gpu was in 128 bit, isn't right ?

It's the same thing for Nintendo 64 or jaguar, both were 64 bit systems.

 

Perhaps it's in relation with the External Bus, i don't know...

 

Help me

[Turbo Laser Lynx]

I think it might be quite impossible to say if the lynx was a 8 or 16 bit system, I guess it doesn´t even matter, the gameboy advance is 32-bit, but still there´s very little differences in the games compared to the 16-bit megadrive and super nintendo games, and Alpine Games to the Lynx looks and sounds as good or even better as any gba game.

 

I think the low resolution on the Lynx screen and some of the weaker games might fool some people to think it is purely a 8-bit system, but "normal" 8-bit systems like the game gear/master system, nes, gameboy or c64 DID NOT have graphics/games like blue lightning, electro cop, stun runner, battle wheels, checkered flag, shadow of the beast, slime world or warbirds. So it´s pretty obvious that the lynx has an 16-bit graphics chip that makes it unique, because it can do some mean graphical stuff compared to the ordinary 8-bit systems, and even compared to 16-bit systems like the megadrive and snes

 

I´ll allways proudly maintain the view that the Lynx is a 16-bit system allthough it doesn´t matter

[The_Laird]

Although Mikey was a 65C02 custom 8-bit chip Suzy was a 16-bit chip so which is it. I've always gone with 16-bit. Mainly because the graphics and sound are both of that quality. How many 8-bit machines do you know that can do all the custom hardware tecniques the Lynx can do.

973034[/snapback]

The TurboGrafx *bricked*

973079[/snapback]

 

Umm, the PCGT can't do scaling, rotation, skewing or distortion. It couldn't do STUN RUNNER! I think thats the benchmark apart from Alpine games which wasn't released during the Lynx's commercail life.

[Ze_ro]

I've always said that "bits" is a completely meaningless indication of anything. Reducing all the capabilities of a system into one number is just ridiculous. No one should ever use these number for anything at all, as very often they are completely made up and misrepresented.

 

However, in light of this contest, it's worth pointing out that the Lynx was marketed as a 16-bit system... mainly due to it's graphics processor.

 

--Zero

[Shawn Jefferson]

My understanding of the definition of classifying a system as 8, 16 or 32 bit is the size of the data bus on that system. The Lynx has an 8-bit data bus so it would qualify as an 8-bit system.

 

Of course, that's apart from marketing, which if they overheard someone say that they wrote a program to add together two 8-bit numbers, they would sell it as a 16-bit system.

 

Does anyone know why the SUZY chip is classified as a 16-bit chip?

Edited December 8, 2005 by Shawn Jefferson

[JagFan422]

i agree that it was more than 8-bit, its games and what the system could do did exceed gameboy, gamegear games, and for the most part NES, but they did not exceed Genesis, SNES, hell even TG-16 games looked much better. So to say it is 16-bit in grahics is false. Just like saying the Jaguar is 64-bit in graphics, we all know thats not the case or it'd have games that looked better than SNES graphics and were on par with playstation/saturn/n64.

[Harry_Dodgson]

My understanding of the definition of classifying a system as 8, 16 or 32 bit is the size of the data bus on that system.  The Lynx has an 8-bit data bus so it would qualify as an 8-bit system.

 

Of course, that's apart from marketing, which if they overheard someone say that they wrote a program to add together two 8-bit numbers, they would sell it as a 16-bit system.

 

Does anyone know why the SUZY chip is classified as a 16-bit chip?

978550[/snapback]

 

Suzy is 16 bit because all the registers are 16 bits (though Mikey has to access them 8 bits at a time obviously).

[The_Laird]

i agree that it was more than 8-bit, its games and what the system could do did exceed gameboy, gamegear games, and for the most part NES, but they did not exceed Genesis, SNES, hell even TG-16 games looked much better.  So to say it is 16-bit in grahics is false.  Just like saying the Jaguar is 64-bit in graphics, we all know thats not the case or it'd have games that looked better than SNES graphics and were on par with playstation/saturn/n64.

978624[/snapback]

For the most part NES?????? Every game on the Lynx looks better and sounds better than any NES game. The only reason I can find in your second statement is that the Lynx couldn't display more than 16 colours on screen (until tricks were used) and one of the limitations was the screen. The Lynx could do hardware (not Genesis or TG-16) scaling, sprite scaling (none of the 3), skewing & rotation (not Genesis or TG-16), infinate sprites (none of the 3) and was also faster than all three. I don't believe that any of the 3 16-bit machines could have done STUN Runner as well as the Lynx. I've played several of the Tengen conversions on the SNES and Megadrive (Klax, Hard Drivin', Pit-Fighter, Road Riot etc.) and none of them are better than the Lynx versions.

[TailChao]

i agree that it was more than 8-bit, its games and what the system could do did exceed gameboy, gamegear games, and for the most part NES, but they did not exceed Genesis, SNES, hell even TG-16 games looked much better.  So to say it is 16-bit in grahics is false.  Just like saying the Jaguar is 64-bit in graphics, we all know thats not the case or it'd have games that looked better than SNES graphics and were on par with playstation/saturn/n64.

978624[/snapback]

For the most part NES?????? Every game on the Lynx looks better and sounds better than any NES game. The only reason I can find in your second statement is that the Lynx couldn't display more than 16 colours on screen (until tricks were used) and one of the limitations was the screen. The Lynx could do hardware (not Genesis or TG-16) scaling, sprite scaling (none of the 3), skewing & rotation (not Genesis or TG-16), infinate sprites (none of the 3) and was also faster than all three. I don't believe that any of the 3 16-bit machines could have done STUN Runner as well as the Lynx. I've played several of the Tengen conversions on the SNES and Megadrive (Klax, Hard Drivin', Pit-Fighter, Road Riot etc.) and none of them are better than the Lynx versions.

978855[/snapback]

1) The Lynx may heavily outperform the NES, however its hardware was not used properly in most games, a category where the NES excells in, just take a look at Kirby's Adventure.

2) Hardware scaling/skewing doesn't automatically mean a more powerful console. Try out Kawasaki Superbike challenge on the Genesis, the softeware renderer outperforms anything I've seen on the Lynx. The TG-16 isn't too bad at software scaling or using pre scaled sprites (After Burner uses a combination of both, and looks quite lovely with the some of the software scaled backgrounds)

3)The lynx is slower than every 16-Bit home console except the SNES, just because a 16Mhz clock is fed to a chip, doesn't mean it runs at 16Mhz. That would mean the NES runs at 21Mhz.

4)Unlimited sprites doesn't mean "unlimited sprites with no slowdown" you have to account for the time it takes suzy to blit all of the data. And since the Lynx has no BG layers, you must use sprite drawing time for this, giving a massive disadvantage to the lynx.

5)Conversions never mean much of anything

 

 

Edit: I still fail to see how every question about the lynx hardware always ends up with a massive innacurate comparision with several other consoles. Is the Lynx 16-Bit? Yes and no. It depends upon how you interpret the term. If you believe the TurboGrafx-16 is a 16-Bit console, than you should do the same for the lynx. If we were going by data bus size, even the SNES would be 8-bit. I personally have to consider the Lynx a 16-Bit console, but mostly because of Suzy's presence.

Edited December 8, 2005 by TailChao

[Jess Ragan]

These days, bit processing means very little. We've been stuck in the 32-bit era for nearly ten years now... both the Xbox and most home computers use 32-bit processors. We're just starting to step into the 64-bit realm with the Athlon 64 chip and its Intel equivalent, and most software doesn't even take advantage of that power!

 

JR

[The_Laird]

5)Conversions never mean much of anything

- Tailchao

 

Why?? I respect that you are a Lynx prgrammer and know alot more about coding the machine than I do but I don't understand how they mean nothing. Are you saying that every programmer who did a game for the SNES or Megadrive that was also on the Lynx couldn't be bothered? I not being biased here, I love the Megadrive and adore the TG-16 for that matter (never muched liked the SNES) but have yet to see a game on any of the 3 that was better than its Lynx counterpart. Here are some more that arn't arcade converts.

 

1. Europen Soccer Challenge on the Lynx was the same game as European Club Soccer on the Megadrive and I have both. They were both programmed by Krysalis (the creators) and the Lynx version wins hands down.

 

2. Slimeworld not sure who programmed the Megadrive version but it wasn't anywhere near as good as the Lynx's

 

3. Hockey was the same game as Mario Lemieux and by the same programming team. Not much diffrence but again the Lynx version edges it.

 

4. Shadow Of The Beast on the Lynx and Genesis was coded by Psygnosis and while the MD version has a few more colours the scrolling, speed and animation was better on the Lynx version.

 

5. Jimmy Connors' Tennis much nicer than the SNES version with better speech and faster gameplay.

 

I agree with you that the Lynx was 16-bit machine but I don't think is was any less powerful than the 3 home consoles. In ACE magazine (a highly respected adult magazine that became Edge) here in the U.K. in there console round-up they stated the following "the Lynx is an imensely powerful machine that certainly matches if not suppases the SNES in many areas"

[JagFan422]

5)Conversions never mean much of anything

- Tailchao

 

 

"the Lynx is an imensely powerful machine that certainly matches if not suppases the SNES in many areas"

978943[/snapback]

 

LOL, you got to be kidding me.

[SwedenLynxer]

5)Conversions never mean much of anything

- Tailchao

 

 

"the Lynx is an imensely powerful machine that certainly matches if not suppases the SNES in many areas"

978943[/snapback]

 

LOL, you got to be kidding me.

979015[/snapback]

 

Try Alpine Games and you will stop laughing.

 

But maybe you don't even own a Lynx?

[The_Laird]

Try Alpine Games and you will stop laughing.

 

But maybe you don't even own a Lynx?

- Sweden Lynxer

 

Dosn't look like it!!

[JagFan422]

i have a lynx with a bunch of games, alpine not being one of them, and maybe it's the games i have, but i doubt the Lynx could do anything like Star Fox, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario World, anything, regardless of the colors. If so the Lynx would've sold alot more units, had much better games and would still be around today, since you fanbois believe its as good as GBA

 

Just like the jag forum, bunch of dillusional fanbois.

[Harry_Dodgson]

i have a lynx with a bunch of games, alpine not being one of them, and maybe it's the games i have, but i doubt the Lynx could do anything like Star Fox, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario World, anything, regardless of the colors.  If so the Lynx would've sold alot more units, had much better games and would still be around today, since you fanbois believe its as good as GBA

 

Just like the jag forum, bunch of dillusional fanbois.

979477[/snapback]

 

Sure the Lynx could do Star Fox - if you added a 3-D chip to the cartridge like Nintendo did.

[Atari_Owl]

...but i doubt the Lynx could do anything like Star Fox...

 

Just like the jag forum, bunch of dillusional fanbois.

979477[/snapback]

 

Neither could the SNES, without powerful additional chips in the cart

 

Mind you i also wouldn't claim the Lynx was as powerful as a SNES

Edited December 13, 2005 by Atari_Owl

[Gregory DG]

Sure the Lynx could do Star Fox - if you added a 3-D chip to the cartridge like Nintendo did.

979496[/snapback]

Dang, you beat me to it! Exactly what I was thinking.

[TailChao]

5)Conversions never mean much of anything

- Tailchao

 

Why?? I respect that you are a Lynx prgrammer and know alot more about coding the machine than I do but I don't understand how they mean nothing. Are you saying that every programmer who did a game for the SNES or Megadrive that was also on the Lynx couldn't be bothered? I not being biased here, I love the Megadrive and adore the TG-16 for that matter (never muched liked the SNES) but have yet to see a game on any of the 3 that was better than its Lynx counterpart. Here are some more that arn't arcade converts.

 

....

 

I agree with you that the Lynx was 16-bit machine but I don't think is was any less powerful than the 3 home consoles. In ACE magazine (a highly respected adult magazine that became Edge) here in the U.K. in there console round-up they stated the following "the Lynx is an imensely powerful machine that certainly matches if not suppases the SNES in many areas"

978943[/snapback]

 

I say this because most games that highlight a console's power tend to be designed around what the hardware of the target console can do. Slime world's pulsating background for example obviously makes extensive use of the lynx's scaling capability. Just as Gunstar Heroes takes advantage of the Genesis's extremely fast CPU and ability to shove loads of sprites onscreen with BG H-ints. Just swapping over a game from another console doesn't highlight the strengths of the system you are porting to (Just imagine porting GSH to the SNES). You have to look at the quality of the BEST titles on each console and what the hardware in general can do.

 

The lynx is one of my favorite portables, I love the hardware design and flexiblity. But comparing it to the TG-16, Genesis, and SNES is absurd. It should be kept in the league of what its main competitors were, the GB and GG (which, hardware wise, it can easily trump).

[The_Laird]

i have a lynx with a bunch of games, alpine not being one of them, and maybe it's the games i have, but i doubt the Lynx could do anything like Star Fox, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario World, anything, regardless of the colors.  If so the Lynx would've sold alot more units, had much better games and would still be around today, since you fanbois believe its as good as GBA

 

Just like the jag forum, bunch of dillusional fanbois.

979477[/snapback]

Why do you come here then?

 

The Lynx could quite easily do all of those games, how ever the SNES could never do STUN Runner even near as well as the Lynx.

 

And its spelt FAN BOYS!