Maze Craze 2 - Ideas Wanted!

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

 

So this is just a curious brainstorm question for all you game designers out there

 

If someone would create Maze Craze 2, what would be your ideas for it?

 

What would you like to have added/removed//tweaked/fixed?

 

What would your ideas be for some new twists and turns? Which variants are missing?

 

I see in the hacks forum that "turning the background black" in a Maze Craze hack was considered an improvement. What else needs to be improved?

 

Or is Maze Craze already perfect, and it should be left as is as in "It ain't broken so don't fix it"?

 

Greetings,

Manuel

[Big Player]

I love Maze Craze but the main problem with it is that is is only good with two players. A one player option is definitely needed. At least a timer or something along those lines. The best would be decent computer AI in all the game options.

 

I'm sure there are some more tweaks to improve the game but I'm drawing a blank now. I don't get to play it too often since it is tough to find an opponent.

[uosipa llamxew]

2-player mode:

 

Random and pre-rendered mazes

Split screen like Marble Craze

Invisible/Dark areas

Maze scrolling, so one cannot view the entire maze on screen (each maze takes trial and error)

 

1-player mode:

 

Time limited mazes

Time attack on pre-rendered mazes

Hi-score save (memory card)

If the memory card could be used save the player input on a maze, perhaps one could race their ghost (ala Super Mario Kart).

 

Powerups, Traps, etc:

 

Jump wall

Bomb wall

Swap players positions

Send player back to the beginning

Teleport player to unknown part of the maze (for better or worse)

Mirror or flip maze

 

There could even be a countdown timer for swapping player positions or flipping the maze (kind of like Chuchu Rocket).

 

Maybe I'm being ridiculous?

Edited February 25, 2006 by mojofltr

[sku_u]

If someone would create Maze Craze 2, what would be your ideas for it?

 

 

Maze Craze 2's already been done:

 

http://www.atariage.com/screenshot_page.ht...wareLabelID=601

 

[uosipa llamxew]

Here are some more:

 

Icey mazes where a player has to control the speed to catch a corner

 

Mazes without walls (ala Marble Craze); instead with ledges to fall off (player begins maze again)

 

AtariVox support!

 

Players are obstacles; Player 2 cannot move through Player 1 and vice versa. This might require the maze paths to be at least double the player width in most places... or perhaps upon colliding there could be a bump effect. This might make for some interesting bump/battles for the same doorway (or with levels with ledges, you could bump your opponent off the edge).

 

One-way avenues. So you chose the wrong way; you have to find another way out.

 

Sandy paths that slow a player's movement. (There might even be a powerup that negates the effect)

Edited February 25, 2006 by mojofltr

[Big Player]

2-player mode: 

 

Random and pre-rendered mazes

...

Invisible/Dark areas

 

 

 

Uh, you have played Maze Craze, right? Every game variation has four levels of visibility. Or were you thinking of something other than horizontal bands of invisible walls?

 

As far as I can tell, the mazes are random. I would love to know how many possible mazes there are.

[SteveW]

I'd like to see things like being able to drop temporary blocks. In one selection of the original game, you can drop fake walls to confuse the other player, but you can still pass through them. But for the sequel, i'd like to see solid walls that disappear after a few seconds.

 

How about a player being able to drop blocks that would randomly teleport the second player somewhere else in the maze? That could make things really interesting. Especially helpful when you're playing a 1-player game, and the multicolored 'chasers' are coming up on you pretty fast.

 

Another thing i'd like to see implemented - the exit is timed to randomly change positions. That would add some longevity to a game. You might only have 15-30 seconds (adjustable with the difficulty switches) to reach the exit before it ends up someplace else. That would really get the tension up in a two-player game!

Edited February 25, 2006 by SteveW

[uosipa llamxew]

Uh, you have played Maze Craze, right?  Every game variation has four levels of visibility.  Or were you thinking of something other than horizontal bands of invisible walls?

 

As far as I can tell, the mazes are random.  I would love to know how many possible mazes there are.

1024428[/snapback]

 

I haven't played since I was a kid. No one will play Atari with me these days.

I did remember that the mazes were seemingly random and the game being quite fun in 2-player mode, but that is about all.

[neotokeo2001]

I also vote for an improved one-player version. Have some type of automated bots that roamed the maze.

 

I would also increase the size of the player and maze so you could give the player some type of character(mouse).

 

Also add some type of bonus or pick-ups in the maze. Maybe pick up a key before the door opens.

[supercat]

If someone would create Maze Craze 2, what would be your ideas for it?

1024342[/snapback]

 

Construct mazes with more than one path through. Would help make the cops and robbers variations more interesting.

[SeaGtGruff]

If someone would create Maze Craze 2, what would be your ideas for it?

 

What would you like to have added/removed//tweaked/fixed?

 

How about drawing the maze with bigger walls and passages (as someone already suggested), and having the maze extend offscreen-- you can't see the entire maze at once, and the screen scrolls as you move around?

 

Michael Rideout

[jaybird3rd]

How about computing the minimum number of steps that are needed to complete a given maze, counting the number of steps the player takes, and awarding a bonus (extra points, etc.) based on how close the player came to the minimum?

[Omegamatrix]

As far as I understand it in Maze Craze there are a certain amount of pre-rendered mazes that the computer randomly selects from. Mojofltr has a lot of good ideas, and to build on what he was saying are my own personal delusions:

 

- Have a variation with three or four possible ways through each maze. The trick here is that all but one have invisible pits along the way. Once a player falls through a pit they go back to the beginning of the maze. That pit now becomes visible so the player can avoid falling in it again.

 

- I love the teleporting idea. Has everyone here played Zelda II: The Adventure of Link? Do you remember the big maze screen? Each place you teleported to had 2 - 4 ways to exit. It would be neat to see a maze built on this idea. If the mazes are pre-rendered maybe copy the same maze three or four times with the teleports going to different locations. That way the player will not be able to tell where to go if he recognizes the maze.

 

 

- How about a variation where the goal is to find a treasure somewhere in the maze? The game begins with the computer flashing the treasure in a certain amount of locations before it disappears. Lets say it starts by flashing five treasures. Your goal is to figure out which one of the five locations has the real treasure by touching each spot the treasure appeared in. Touch the right spot were the real treasure is and you will get some points and start over. This time however the computer flashes one less treasure then before. If it flashed five treasures the first time it will only flash four treasures the second time. The idea here is that the computer is counting down the treasures to one. You are trying to get to that final treasue to score huge points, and also to proceed to the next level. If you run out of time though it's game over. The next level starts the game again with one extra treasure added. Say level one starts you off by showing five treasures. Level two will then start you off by showing you six treasures.

 

Sorry for any confusion. I'm confusing myself trying to explain this. Here's some code to help:

 

X = False treasure,  O = Real treasure,  A = Final real treasure.
X = No points,  O = some points,  A = Huge points.
Each level has the same amount of time to complete; say forty seconds.

Level 1
        XXOXX  
        OXXX 
        XXO
        OX
        A
        
Level 2
        OXXXXX
        XOXXX
        XXXO
        XXO
        OX
        A

Level 3
        XXXXXOX
        XOXXXX
        XXXXO
        OXXX
        XOX
        XO
        A

 

-Finally I would love to see some variations with different sprites. Perhaps one could be cars, another people, and finally one with sailboats (my favorite). I don't know how well that would look on a small scale, but it's just a thought.

 

Cheers Manuel,

Jeff

[vdub_bobby]

The best ideas I've read have been:

 

1. Bigger mazes, extending off screen.

2. Randomly generated mazes (if they aren't already).

[+batari]

The best ideas I've read have been:

 

1. Bigger mazes, extending off screen.

2. Randomly generated mazes (if they aren't already).

1025347[/snapback]

Both would be possible (and not terribly difficult) using my RallyX or Superbug track engine and a Supercharger. The Rally X track is 32x56 and takes 224 bytes, and the SuperBug track is 128x128 and takes up 2k. Though a 128x128 maze would be very tough to navigate!

 

I remember that Michael Rideout wrote a random maze generator in bB, but I wonder if it could be extend to work with a much larger track on a Supercharger?

[NE146]

How about shooting?

[SeaGtGruff]

The best ideas I've read have been:

 

1. Bigger mazes, extending off screen.

2. Randomly generated mazes (if they aren't already).

1025347[/snapback]

Both would be possible (and not terribly difficult) using my RallyX or Superbug track engine and a Supercharger. The Rally X track is 32x56 and takes 224 bytes, and the SuperBug track is 128x128 and takes up 2k. Though a 128x128 maze would be very tough to navigate!

 

I remember that Michael Rideout wrote a random maze generator in bB, but I wonder if it could be extend to work with a much larger track on a Supercharger?

1025569[/snapback]

 

When I suggested bigger mazes extending off screen, I actually had that bB maze generator in mind! It uses a common maze-generation algorithm, so it should be easy enough to adapt it to a larger maze. However, the only reason it worked at all in bB was because bB maps the playfield to RAM. I know the Supercharger has RAM, but I don't know how much or how to address it. I could create a larger random maze with M-Network bankswitching and its extra RAM, but from what I've heard it would be hard to manufacture cartridges using M-Network bankswitching, so I suppose it would be more logical to use the 4A50 bankswitching cartridge (and there would be more RAM and ROM as well).

 

I suppose that program I wrote actually created "pseudo-random" mazes, since it could generate only 255 unique mazes. I didn't fully follow the thread a while back about random number generators, but I take it that a better method could easily be added to bB, in which case I could modify that program to generate more than just 255 unique mazes? Anyway, as long as there's enough RAM to store the maze data, it should be a fairly simple matter to adapt that program for generating much larger mazes.

 

Michael Rideout

[+batari]

The best ideas I've read have been:

 

1. Bigger mazes, extending off screen.

2. Randomly generated mazes (if they aren't already).

1025347[/snapback]

Both would be possible (and not terribly difficult) using my RallyX or Superbug track engine and a Supercharger. The Rally X track is 32x56 and takes 224 bytes, and the SuperBug track is 128x128 and takes up 2k. Though a 128x128 maze would be very tough to navigate!

 

I remember that Michael Rideout wrote a random maze generator in bB, but I wonder if it could be extend to work with a much larger track on a Supercharger?

1025569[/snapback]

 

When I suggested bigger mazes extending off screen, I actually had that bB maze generator in mind! It uses a common maze-generation algorithm, so it should be easy enough to adapt it to a larger maze. However, the only reason it worked at all in bB was because bB maps the playfield to RAM. I know the Supercharger has RAM, but I don't know how much or how to address it.

I believe it has 3 2k chunks that can be either ROM or RAM. I suggested the SC because there are lots of them out there, and also because of the contest - such a game could be entered in both the SC contest and the bB contest. Addressing the RAM, however, is quite weird. But I'm sure a library could be written to make things simpler.

 

I could create a larger random maze with M-Network bankswitching and its extra RAM, but from what I've heard it would be hard to manufacture cartridges using M-Network bankswitching, so I suppose it would be more logical to use the 4A50 bankswitching cartridge (and there would be more RAM and ROM as well).

Once the emus support 4A50, I imagine that development will take off. For now, the SC has the best hardware and software support.

I suppose that program I wrote actually created "pseudo-random" mazes, since it could generate only 255 unique mazes. I didn't fully follow the thread a while back about random number generators, but I take it that a better method could easily be added to bB, in which case I could modify that program to generate more than just 255 unique mazes? Anyway, as long as there's enough RAM to store the maze data, it should be a fairly simple matter to adapt that program for generating much larger mazes.

 

Michael Rideout

1025627[/snapback]

The newest build of bB has an optional random number generator that would produce 65535 different mazes.

[SeaGtGruff]

Once the emus support 4A50, I imagine that development will take off.  For now, the SC has the best hardware and software support.

1025680[/snapback]

 

I believe supercat posted a file in his blog to allow preliminary 4A50 "emulation" on a 7800 with a Cuttle Cart 2, but I don't think the 4A50 design is finalized yet. I haven't tried it out yet. I don't know how many people actually have a 7800 and a Cuttle Cart 2, but any developers who do might want to start experimenting with the 4A50 scheme, since emu support for 4A50 is probably more likely to be added once the design is finalized and people start to create games that use it. I'd guess it's sort of like the chicken and the egg-- emu support for 4A50 will make it easier for developers to program for it, but emu support might not come until developers start programming for it and thereby create an actual need for emu support!

 

Michael Rideout

[+batari]

As a demo, I used a stripped-down version of my Superbug engine to render a 128x128 maze. This demo uses F8 bankswitching so the maze is in ROM, but the total space used is about 4.5k, so this might fit on an SC depending on how big the maze generator would need to be.

 

You start in the lower left corner, and the goal is in the upper right. It's a huge maze, and I haven't managed to solve it yet (maybe y'all can?)

 

Anyway, I've included source (it compiles on the unreleased version of bB I'm working with...I'm not sure if it will compile with the latest bleeding edge build or not.) I've got too much on my plate so this is it for now, so if anyone else wants to take the reins here, be my guest.

mazecraze2.zip

[vdub_bobby]

That looks really good, Fred.

[+batari]

That looks really good, Fred.

1025935[/snapback]

I really need to quit taking on new projects before I finish existing ones.

 

Anyway...

 

I made Maze Craze 2 a Supercharger game - with all of the RAM it has, this game seems a good fit (thanks to cd-w for posting SC skeleton code, which I used here.) Please, someone test on a real SC for me.

 

I just got random maze generation working! The algorithm tries to generate solvable mazes. It's actually more of a heuristic given the limitations of the 2600, so there's a chance it will screw up. Let me know if you solve a generated maze. The first maze is solvable, BTW, I've solved it myself.

 

To generate a new maze, hit reset, and the screen will act as a "progress bar" (you'll see what I mean.) It takes about 15 seconds to generate a new maze. You can block off dead ends by pressing the joystick button, which should help in solving mazes since you can only see a small portion on the screen at any given time.

mazecraze2_sc.bin

[vdub_bobby]

Just don't block off a passageway and then go the wrong way!

 

EDIT: How many different mazes does your random-maze generator generate?

Edited March 10, 2006 by vdub_bobby

[+batari]

Just don't block off a passageway and then go the wrong way! 

 

EDIT: How many different mazes does your random-maze generator generate?

1031490[/snapback]

It should generate 65535 unique mazes.

 

I should put in a way to select a particular maze.

[BrianC]

A scrolling maze is a interesting idea, but it makes it feel a bit different from Maze Craze. I would like to see multiple one player modes. The previously suggested modes like a timer and stuff like that sound like great ideas. I would like to see a 1p race against the computer mode. Also, if the scrolling maze also means the game HAS to be supercharger, I rather it not be used or be used for a seperate game. The Supercharger is a cool accessory, but it also makes games less accessable. I don't like cassettes or the idea of having to feed a wav file into the Supercharger every time I want to play the game.

 

The MC2 SC demo is looking good, though.

Edited May 2, 2006 by BrianC