vprette Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Id like to start a discussion about the reason why Atari or colecovision got many new releases and not Intellivision? Are there any developers reading this topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Id like to start a discussion about the reason why Atari or colecovision got many new releases and not Intellivision? Are there any developers reading this topic? I think the biggest reason was that there was a problem making Intellivision boards for new games. However I think they finally got around that problem last year. Now I guess the only thing holding people back is the relatively small fan base (when compared to Colecovision or Atari that is). Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I'm far from being an expert of the Intellivision, but I can try to explain the lack of Inty homebrew interest: 1) The Intellivision has its fans and followers, but it never achieved mainstream status in the 80's, either in the USA or elsewhere. 2) The Inty hardware is not terribly well documented, and few dev tools are available (please correct me I'm wrong on this one). 3) Making 2600 games is a real challenge, and the people who took on this challenge helped to create the 2600 homebrew community by documenting the hardware and everything related to it, and by broadcasting this knowledge across the internet. Just watch 2600 homebrew authors discuss machine code and you'll get the feel for how much effort has been put into building the community. 4) The ColecoVision's main advantage, in terms of homebrew development, is that it uses off-the-shelf components that are relatively well documented (like the Z80 CPU), and so all it took to make CV programming take off is a few knowledgeable people who organized the available documentation together with some software tools and compilers. The rest is just a desire to create nice games with a friendly piece of hardware that was somewhat ahead of its time, 20+ years ago. Also, there's the fact that the Inty's graphics aren't particularly appealing, so you need to try the actual games to see that graphics aren't everything. Old-school gamers are used to seing low-quality graphics in Atari 2600 games, so it's not that much of an issue, strangely enough. But where graphic quality is important, it seems like the ColecoVision is the logical choice over the Intellivision. Of course, I'm putting aside computers like the C64 when I say this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 The Intellivision cartridges aren't as simple as Atari cartridges. A typical 2600 cartridge board contains an EPROM and a hex inverter; the more sophisticated ones might include some bankswitching hardware and extra RAM. On an Intellivision cartridge (at least as I understand it), some of the pins act at different times as either address lines OR as data lines, which requires a lot more logic to implement and makes Intellivision cartridges more difficult to design and build. Other factors (as has been pointed out) include the smaller fan base that the Intellivision enjoys compared to the 2600, lack of documentation, and the Intellivision's somewhat unusual (but very cool) hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 (edited) I'd be happy just to get the releases that have already been promised. The intellivisionlives had a demo of two new carts last August at CGE and said they were coming soon. I put my name on the mailing list and am still waiting. Intelligentvision told me in an email a second batch of SameGame+Robots would come in March. Still waiting.... Edited July 19, 2006 by jsoper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 I'd be happy just to get the releases that have already been promised. The intellivisionlives had a demo of two new carts last August at CGE and said they were coming soon. I put my name on the mailing list and am still waiting. Intelligentvision told me in an email a second batch of SameGame+Robots would come in March. Still waiting.... I know.... I'm aware of the situation because I'm in charge of the production of Defender of the Crown :-) our game is ready 60%, but we have delay due to quality acceptance at Cinemaware concerning illusions and deep pocket, looks like they announced but are not ready to invest in the shell molding... did you see those propotypes? were they runing on emulators or as real carts connected to intellivision? concerning samegame&robots.... intelligentvision may decide to deliver an updated version of the game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I'd be happy just to get the releases that have already been promised. The intellivisionlives had a demo of two new carts last August at CGE and said they were coming soon. I put my name on the mailing list and am still waiting. Intelligentvision told me in an email a second batch of SameGame+Robots would come in March. Still waiting.... I know.... I'm aware of the situation because I'm in charge of the production of Defender of the Crown :-) our game is ready 60%, but we have delay due to quality acceptance at Cinemaware concerning illusions and deep pocket, looks like they announced but are not ready to invest in the shell molding... did you see those propotypes? were they runing on emulators or as real carts connected to intellivision? concerning samegame&robots.... intelligentvision may decide to deliver an updated version of the game... Cinemaware? Defender of the Crown? Huh? What does this have to do with the Intellivision? Did I miss a post or something? Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 I'd be happy just to get the releases that have already been promised. The intellivisionlives had a demo of two new carts last August at CGE and said they were coming soon. I put my name on the mailing list and am still waiting. Intelligentvision told me in an email a second batch of SameGame+Robots would come in March. Still waiting.... I know.... I'm aware of the situation because I'm in charge of the production of Defender of the Crown :-) our game is ready 60%, but we have delay due to quality acceptance at Cinemaware concerning illusions and deep pocket, looks like they announced but are not ready to invest in the shell molding... did you see those propotypes? were they runing on emulators or as real carts connected to intellivision? concerning samegame&robots.... intelligentvision may decide to deliver an updated version of the game... Cinemaware? Defender of the Crown? Huh? What does this have to do with the Intellivision? Did I miss a post or something? Tempest Yes!! I'm producing Defender of the crown with the permission of cinemaware for intellivision here one picture to prove :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 concerning illusions and deep pocket, looks like they announced but are not ready to invest in the shell molding... did you see those propotypes? were they runing on emulators or as real carts connected to intellivision? I remember seeing at least one of them as a real cart, unless my memory is playing tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 concerning illusions and deep pocket, looks like they announced but are not ready to invest in the shell molding... did you see those propotypes? were they runing on emulators or as real carts connected to intellivision? I remember seeing at least one of them as a real cart, unless my memory is playing tricks. but I cannot find picture anywhere in internet of this cart :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Brasky Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Back when Intellivision Productions first announced on their website that they were going to release the Intellivision Lives compilation for PC, they said they were going to include their original INTV development tools and documentation on the disc. That was one of the main reasons I bought it. When it came out it wasn't included. I emailed them about it and they said they were going to put it on their website or put it on INTV Rocks. Well it's been several years since then and AFAIK they're still sitting on all their dev tools and docs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 but I cannot find picture anywhere in internet of this cart :-( You can see corner of it in a pic 1/3 down thenewsletter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 The Intellivision cartridges aren't as simple as Atari cartridges. A typical 2600 cartridge board contains an EPROM and a hex inverter; the more sophisticated ones might include some bankswitching hardware and extra RAM. On an Intellivision cartridge (at least as I understand it), some of the pins act at different times as either address lines OR as data lines, which requires a lot more logic to implement and makes Intellivision cartridges more difficult to design and build. Other factors (as has been pointed out) include the smaller fan base that the Intellivision enjoys compared to the 2600, lack of documentation, and the Intellivision's somewhat unusual (but very cool) hardware. Really the #1 reason is that it uses a non-standard bus (but less so than the Channel F!) meaning it needs not just a special interface, but the knowledge of how that special interface is supposed to work so you can make one, and the #2 reason is that it used an obscure CPU. Most people who grew up playing with home computers back in the day learned either 6502 or Z-80 assembly language or both, and sometimes even 6809 or 68000. Probably nothing other than the Intellivision used the CP1610, even tough it was an "off-the-shelf" chipset like the Colecovision or TRS-80 Color Computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Really the #1 reason is that it uses a non-standard bus (but less so than the Channel F!) meaning it needs not just a special interface, but the knowledge of how that special interface is supposed to work so you can make one, and the #2 reason is that it used an obscure CPU. Most people who grew up playing with home computers back in the day learned either 6502 or Z-80 assembly language or both, and sometimes even 6809 or 68000. Probably nothing other than the Intellivision used the CP1610, even tough it was an "off-the-shelf" chipset like the Colecovision or TRS-80 Color Computer.Yes, it reminds me a little of how TI chose the obscure TMS9900 for their 99/4 series of computers instead of something more popular like the Z80 or 6502. I'm sure that hurt support for their platform during and after its lifetime, too, in addition to all the other factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted July 23, 2006 Author Share Posted July 23, 2006 Back when Intellivision Productions first announced on their website that they were going to release the Intellivision Lives compilation for PC, they said they were going to include their original INTV development tools and documentation on the disc. That was one of the main reasons I bought it. When it came out it wasn't included. I emailed them about it and they said they were going to put it on their website or put it on INTV Rocks. Well it's been several years since then and AFAIK they're still sitting on all their dev tools and docs. I didn't know about this: maybe intellifans can sign a petition and send to Intellivision Productions to release the dev tools.... or maybe they told you this just before to decide to develop new games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Maybe (hopefully) the new Intellivision Cuttle Cart will help development. Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted July 23, 2006 Author Share Posted July 23, 2006 Maybe (hopefully) the new Intellivision Cuttle Cart will help development. Allan we'll open a discussion thread about cuttle cart 3 at intellivisionworld as soon as the prototype is available Not sure this item is what developers need anyway... developers need dev tools and middleware.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 we'll open a discussion thread about cuttle cart 3 at intellivisionworld as soon as the prototype is available Not sure this item is what developers need anyway... developers need dev tools and middleware.... Developers also need to run games on the real hardware because emulators are never 100% perfect. And Intellivision cartridge hardware is not trivial to hack up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted July 24, 2006 Author Share Posted July 24, 2006 we'll open a discussion thread about cuttle cart 3 at intellivisionworld as soon as the prototype is available Not sure this item is what developers need anyway... developers need dev tools and middleware.... Developers also need to run games on the real hardware because emulators are never 100% perfect. And Intellivision cartridge hardware is not trivial to hack up. this is hipotetically right.. but the few developers I know working on Inty, already use emulators and know what to do.. A dev kit is more interesting for casual and new developers... I'm working to a middleware that integrate the jzintv 1.0 with graphic interface,text editing and maybe a graphic editor to make it simpler work on inty development... but still I do not know how many people would be interested in such a tool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 this is hipotetically right.. but the few developers I know working on Inty, already use emulators and know what to do..A dev kit is more interesting for casual and new developers... I'm working to a middleware that integrate the jzintv 1.0 with graphic interface,text editing and maybe a graphic editor to make it simpler work on inty development... but still I do not know how many people would be interested in such a tool Meh. I hate front end thingies for 8-bit development. Just give me a command-line assembler, an emulator, and a transmit-to-dev-cart utility. And I will be even less interested if it is for Windows only. (not that I have any interest in Intellivision homebrews anyhow, as I'm doing Colecovision now and Genesis in the future) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted July 25, 2006 Author Share Posted July 25, 2006 this is hipotetically right.. but the few developers I know working on Inty, already use emulators and know what to do..A dev kit is more interesting for casual and new developers... I'm working to a middleware that integrate the jzintv 1.0 with graphic interface,text editing and maybe a graphic editor to make it simpler work on inty development... but still I do not know how many people would be interested in such a tool Meh. I hate front end thingies for 8-bit development. Just give me a command-line assembler, an emulator, and a transmit-to-dev-cart utility. And I will be even less interested if it is for Windows only. (not that I have any interest in Intellivision homebrews anyhow, as I'm doing Colecovision now and Genesis in the future) so you want jzintv http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted July 27, 2006 Author Share Posted July 27, 2006 who know about the old dev kit Magus announced for intellivision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 This discussion will continue in the just opened intellivision forum at http://www.intellivisionworld.com/ihq/ see you there :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianC Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 What's the news on Space Patrol? I'm very interested in that one. Moon Patrol for the Inty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) What's the news on Space Patrol? I'm very interested in that one. Moon Patrol for the Inty! Harley is collaborating with Zbiciack to speed up dev.... that means the game will be out, but do not ask me when... Edited December 20, 2006 by vprette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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