Warerat Projects

[joeventura]

Warerat,

Any of your A800 projects going to go production?

 

576K Atari 800 or MyIDE for A800?

 

Anything anyone can do to help or inspire you ??

[+warerat]

Warerat,

Any of your A800 projects going to go production?

 

576K Atari 800 or MyIDE for A800?

 

Anything anyone can do to help or inspire you ??

 

How about a count of how many people would actually fork down $$$ to buy a finished upgraded personality module that would come in 128K/576K flavors? The 128K module would be the cheapest, and you'd just have to plug in another SRAM to get 576K. Jumpers would select between standard 128K 130XE, 320K 130XE, and 576K 130XE (320K/576K assuming you had the board fully populated with memory).

 

I will redesign the original prototype I made (which requires three separate boards, including a stock 16K module, seen here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84836) into a single board. This board will have the following capabilities:

 

1) Built-in BASIC (already implemented)

2) Built-in selftest ROM (already implemented)

3) Hardware reset circuit

 

The board *can* have the following (haven't implemented or tested yet):

4) Full seperate ANTIC enhanced operation (by default ANTIC sees whatever the CPU sees and does not need bit 5 to select it), I'd need to add logic for ANTIC's HALT to implement.

5) Additional signals for PBI implementation. We have an XL OS on the 800 now, so you could technically make three PBI devices to plug into the memory board slots and daisy chain them to the personality board to get the additional signals as an internal PBI. An extreme case would be to provide a board with a 50-pin header that provides the XL PBI, and say, run an MIO on the 800. It is possible now.

6) Provisions for a 32-in-1 Steve Tucker OS board. You could plug the standard XL/XE OS upgrade into the 800, so you could switch OS's on the fly. (I'd need to get dimensions for the board and design the PCB to take that in consideration, as well as a few extra signals).

 

With the board plugged in, you cannot populate slots 1-3 with memory or use ports 3/4-- everything would work just like its newer siblings. You could however populate slot 3 with a MyIDE. Or we could make a custom PBI board with a true 16-bit IDE interface. Who knows. Think of it like using the extra memory slots in 800 chassis as a 1090XL-- you've got most of the important CPU signals on each RAM slot, and the daisy-chain header would provide the missing ones. The reason this is possible on the 800 is because all the memory components are in plug-in cards. However, a header from the new personality module with about 12 connections to the mainboard will need to be run, but the machine could be returned to stock by plugging all the original boards back in. For really nutty people you could even put any 8K ROM in place of BASIC to disable with OPTION, but my first priority is 100% Atari-standard compatibility. Last but not least, no physical HELP key!

 

So if enough people say, "Yes, I want one!", then I will it make it happen. The more people, the cheaper final product would be. All depends how many people would rather convert their 800 vs. buying a 130XE off of eBay. I just feel like it extends the life on the old beast. Oh yeah, I did play the Crownland preview on my 800.

 

--Sergio

[PacMan]

I definitly want one... erhh no make that two.

 

/P

[danwinslow]

Me for 2.

[tjb]

I'd buy a couple as well.

 

-tjb

[Gunstar]

I'll buy one! I sold off my 800 a few months ago, and settled in on maximum hacking of my 1200XL, but I'd buy an 800 again if I can buy this upgrade! Then my 320XE would probably be sold off as I wouldn't need it anymore with a 128-576k 800(XE)!

Edited October 22, 2006 by Gunstar

[gander2112]

Count me in for one as well.

 

 

Geoff

[+Stephen]

I'm definitely interested in one.

 

Stephen Anderson

[+remowilliams]

I'm up for one or two if you get 'em made

[Ralphy Rocket]

Count me in for one!! I built a 16 bit IDE interface last December but I just ran out of gas...(and I don't have a GAL programmer) Here a pic Minus the GAL on the left side...

 

Ralph

[zektor800]

Umm, count me in definitely!!! I'll go for two myself. How soon?

Edited October 24, 2006 by zektor800

[joeventura]

WIth me thats a total of 14

[doctorclu]

I'll buy one.

[joeventura]

That's 15!

[zektor800]

Something like this can also get ALOT of coverage on ebay. Atarimax sells his SIO2PC interface on ebay, and it sells quite often. I am sure there are MANY people out there that would want to upgrade the 800 in such a way.

[joeventura]

I'd tend to agree except this is not really plug and play like the SIO2PC is

[Gunstar]

Warerat,

Any of your A800 projects going to go production?

 

576K Atari 800 or MyIDE for A800?

 

Anything anyone can do to help or inspire you ??

 

How about a count of how many people would actually fork down $$$ to buy a finished upgraded personality module that would come in 128K/576K flavors? The 128K module would be the cheapest, and you'd just have to plug in another SRAM to get 576K. Jumpers would select between standard 128K 130XE, 320K 130XE, and 576K 130XE (320K/576K assuming you had the board fully populated with memory).

 

I will redesign the original prototype I made (which requires three separate boards, including a stock 16K module, seen here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84836) into a single board. This board will have the following capabilities:

 

1) Built-in BASIC (already implemented)

2) Built-in selftest ROM (already implemented)

3) Hardware reset circuit

 

The board *can* have the following (haven't implemented or tested yet):

 

 

4) Full seperate ANTIC enhanced operation (by default ANTIC sees whatever the CPU sees and does not need bit 5 to select it), I'd need to add logic for ANTIC's HALT to implement.

 

 

5) Additional signals for PBI implementation. We have an XL OS on the 800 now, so you could technically make three PBI devices to plug into the memory board slots and daisy chain them to the personality board to get the additional signals as an internal PBI. An extreme case would be to provide a board with a 50-pin header that provides the XL PBI, and say, run an MIO on the 800. It is possible now.

6) Provisions for a 32-in-1 Steve Tucker OS board. You could plug the standard XL/XE OS upgrade into the 800, so you could switch OS's on the fly. (I'd need to get dimensions for the board and design the PCB to take that in consideration, as well as a few extra signals).

 

With the board plugged in, you cannot populate slots 1-3 with memory or use ports 3/4-- everything would work just like its newer siblings. You could however populate slot 3 with a MyIDE. Or we could make a custom PBI board with a true 16-bit IDE interface. Who knows. Think of it like using the extra memory slots in 800 chassis as a 1090XL-- you've got most of the important CPU signals on each RAM slot, and the daisy-chain header would provide the missing ones. The reason this is possible on the 800 is because all the memory components are in plug-in cards. However, a header from the new personality module with about 12 connections to the mainboard will need to be run, but the machine could be returned to stock by plugging all the original boards back in. For really nutty people you could even put any 8K ROM in place of BASIC to disable with OPTION, but my first priority is 100% Atari-standard compatibility. Last but not least, no physical HELP key!

 

So if enough people say, "Yes, I want one!", then I will it make it happen. The more people, the cheaper final product would be. All depends how many people would rather convert their 800 vs. buying a 130XE off of eBay. I just feel like it extends the life on the old beast. Oh yeah, I did play the Crownland preview on my 800.

 

--Sergio

 

Over the years and throughout my own memory upgrades, people have always made a big deal about making sure the upgrade is ANTIC compatible, and I even put off upgrading my machines for years while searching for ANTIC compatible XE memory upgrades. I finally just did the 320k upgrade to my 130XE and the Rambo upgrade to my 1200XL and I wish I had just done it YEARS ago. Really, ANTIC compatibilty issue is VERY over-blown. There are something like 2 programs/demos out there that actually use this feature. Video Blitz demo, IIRC, and something else. Who cares? I've been using my XL&XE without ANTIC compatiblity for a while now and every extended memory game/program/demo I've come across have worked flawlessly (I haven't attempted Video Blitz). Guys have switches for Rambo/ANTIC memory compatibility and all, and have suggested I do the same, but I really don't see it being worth the trouble. If someone ever programs a killer game or app. that makes use of ANTIC compatible XE memory then maybe I'll CONSIDER doing the mods for compatibility. I doubt that will ever happen though.

Every single game/program that was ever officially released that takes advantage of extended memory work fine in upgrades without ANTIC bit 5 memory use. 99.9% of demos and other PD/shareware software work fine without it. I wouldn't worry about it in the 800 upgrade board. At best, maybe just include instructions on adding it, or just let the hackers who just have to be able to run everything add it in themselves. Or is this Video Blitz demo so good that it makes it all worthwhile?

Edited October 25, 2006 by Gunstar

[MEtalGuy66]

 

Over the years and throughout my own memory upgrades, people have always made a big deal about making sure the upgrade is ANTIC compatible, and I even put off upgrading my machines for years while searching for ANTIC compatible XE memory upgrades. I finally just did the 320k upgrade to my 130XE and the Rambo upgrade to my 1200XL and I wish I had just done it YEARS ago. Really, ANTIC compatibilty issue is VERY over-blown. There are something like 2 programs/demos out there that actually use this feature. Video Blitz demo, IIRC, and something else. Who cares? I've been using my XL&XE without ANTIC compatiblity for a while now and every extended memory game/program/demo I've come across have worked flawlessly (I haven't attempted Video Blitz). Guys have switches for Rambo/ANTIC memory compatibility and all, and have suggested I do the same, but I really don't see it being worth the trouble. If someone ever programs a killer game or app. that makes use of ANTIC compatible XE memory then maybe I'll CONSIDER doing the mods for compatibility. I doubt that will ever happen though.

Every single game/program that was ever officially released that takes advantage of extended memory work fine in upgrades without ANTIC bit 5 memory use. 99.9% of demos and other PD/shareware software work fine without it. I wouldn't worry about it in the 800 upgrade board. At best, maybe just include instructions on adding it, or just let the hackers who just have to be able to run everything add it in themselves. Or is this Video Blitz demo so good that it makes it all worthwhile?

 

Yeah you are right. Its a damn shame that noone coded anything substantial to utilize that feature. I for one, will alwayse put a switch to "retain" ANTIC extended mode compatability when upgrading the memory on a 130xe. But, I wouldnt go through the trouble to add all the extra crap that it requires to make an XL "XE extended video mode compatable"..

 

It's also important to note that there is no QUICK & EASY way to make an XL memory upgrade do TRUE "XE extended video mode". Upgrades like most of the Newells and Bob Wolloey's upgrades are compatable in the sense that they will actually RUN programs correctly, that utilize this mode. However, the screen output may or may not be correct in all parts of the game or demo..

 

As far as this feature not being worth retaining.... Well, based on existing software, you are absolutely right.. But some day, I am going to code something that uses this feature to it's fullest, and it is gonna blow everyone's mind. heheh. And then you will all be installing switches to "give back" bit 5 of PORTB on your 130XEs. heheh...

[+warerat]

Prototype replacement XL/XE Personality Module for the Atari 800 with 128K and 576K option for 100% 130XE compatibility. Ran out of time this week to finish the wiring, but as it stands, the logic for the memory mapper for the 128K chip is in place, and the hardware reset is in place. This is an improvement from my original prototype as it will only require one board and retains full 800 compatibiity if you plug the original boards back in. It will however, require 16 solder connections to the motherboard and you lose ports 3 and 4, but you will have full XL/XE compatibility. For those of you out there that are into CPLD's, the entire design fits in an Altera EPM3032 and only uses a third of the macrocells.

 

Stay tuned.

[+remowilliams]

Prototype replacement XL/XE Personality Module for the Atari 800 with 128K and 576K option for 100% 130XE compatibility.

Nice!

 

16 solder points is fine. When the personality module is removed, you get the use of port 3/4 back right? And CPLDs and FPGAs simply rule.

 

I can't wait to get my hands on one of these

[+warerat]

Prototype replacement XL/XE Personality Module for the Atari 800 with 128K and 576K option for 100% 130XE compatibility.

Nice!

 

16 solder points is fine. When the personality module is removed, you get the use of port 3/4 back right? And CPLDs and FPGAs simply rule.

 

I can't wait to get my hands on one of these

 

Yes, once the 16 internal connections are made, simply unplugging the header from the board and replacing all the original boards will return the 800 back to stock. No cutting of any traces in required. You need the extra wiring to bring in the PIA signals and a few others. This is what it will look like plugged into the 800 card bay-- that will be the only board you need, the three memory slots will be unused. The ribbon cable I have shown in my 800 is a 10-conductor ribbon (for the original design), but it looks like there's just enough room in the rear slots to snake the 16-conductor ribbon in there. I don't want to cut anything to make it fit. You will need to remove the plastic cases from the stock boards in order to have clearance for the IDC connector with all four original boards plugged in.

[Mathy]

Howdy Ken

 

It's also important to note that there is no QUICK & EASY way to make an XL memory upgrade do TRUE "XE extended video mode".

 

Not without adding either a CO25953 or a GAL plus a 74LS95B. For the contents of that GAL, check the CO25953 item on my special stuff page.

 

But some day, I am going to code something that uses this feature to it's fullest, and it is gonna blow everyone's mind. heheh.

 

As soon as it's ready, please send me a copy for my site. I've been hoping and begging for a piece of software like that for ages.

 

Greetings

 

Mathy (a "separate ANTIC and CPU acces" fan since day one)

[zektor800]

Awesome news! Really looking forward to this.

 

But, one issue is the soldering. I have an extremely mint A800, and would really like to keep this sucker original (not that it is ruining *much* originality as there is no cutting involved...but still). I suppose if this is the only route I can get another A800 for the mod, but any chance of a solder free solution some day?

Edited November 7, 2006 by zektor800

[Almost Rice]

But, one issue is the soldering. I have an extremely mint A800, and would really like to keep this sucker original (not that it is ruining *much* originality as there is no cutting involved...but still). I suppose if this is the only route I can get another A800 for the mod, but any chance of a solder free solution some day?

 

Then you would probably want his original design. That one only need 1 jumper to the connector and you still use all 3 ram cards.

 

I think warerat may want to use the 3 slots for something. I know he had a slot 3 MyIDE card.

[zektor800]

But, one issue is the soldering. I have an extremely mint A800, and would really like to keep this sucker original (not that it is ruining *much* originality as there is no cutting involved...but still). I suppose if this is the only route I can get another A800 for the mod, but any chance of a solder free solution some day?

 

Then you would probably want his original design. That one only need 1 jumper to the connector and you still use all 3 ram cards.

 

I think warerat may want to use the 3 slots for something. I know he had a slot 3 MyIDE card.

 

 

See, that sounds pretty cool. Warerat, is it possible to get this design as well?