7800Lover Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 The arcade game Popeye was ported to many systems in the 80s such as (but not limited to) the Atari 2600, 5200, 800 computer, TI-99A, Intellivision, Colecovision, Commodore 64, NES and even the Odyssey 2. Why was there not a version put out for the Atari 7800? To be honest, I think a 7800 Popeye would have been awesome. Since the 7800 did have some good ports like Joust, Dig Dug, Donkey Kong, etc, a Popeye game would have looked very good on that system. Anyone out there planning to whip up a hack or homebrew adaptation of a 7800 Popeye game? I'd like to see the spinach-eating sailor on this console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzillajoe Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Parker Bros. didn't make ANY games specifically for the 7800. Most of the third party game companies folded or moved on to other systems like the NES by the time the 7800 finally came out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari_Elite Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I played Popeye, but I didn't think it was that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Honestly, a larger part of the appeal of Popeye was the music and sound effects. I dont think it would be worthwhile trying on the 7800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Honestly, a larger part of the appeal of Popeye was the music and sound effects. I dont think it would be worthwhile trying on the 7800. I dunno. I think hte 7800 could do a decent job of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetset Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Honestly, a larger part of the appeal of Popeye was the music and sound effects. I dont think it would be worthwhile trying on the 7800. I dunno. I think hte 7800 could do a decent job of it. Probablly. I just get so disappointed thinking about the sound on the 7800. Such a fun little system but the sound...ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzillajoe Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 This may be a dumb question but if the 2600 had decent sound, why are the sounds so bad on the 7800? They use the same sound chip no? 2600 Mario Bros and Donkey Kong sound OK but they make me wanna puke on the 7800. Why the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 (edited) This may be a dumb question but if the 2600 had decent sound, why are the sounds so bad on the 7800? They use the same sound chip no? 2600 Mario Bros and Donkey Kong sound OK but they make me wanna puke on the 7800. Why the difference? Because ATARI were famous for creating excellent ideas and gaming consoles,like the 7800,and screwing it up by compromising on quality and cost cutting,shitty controllers,(5200,7800)the list goes on and on and and on,thanks to a certain Jacky boy Tramiel. Edited November 12, 2006 by Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzillajoe Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 But that still doesn't answer why if the 2600 and 7800 share the same sound chip, one sounds awful and one not so awful. Why not just rip the sounds from 2600 Mario Bros for the 7800 version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I don't know why the 7800 doesn't have any better sound. Sure it's useing the 2600 for sound, but techincally, it's useing the entire 2600 for sound instead of just the sound chip, so it should techincally have better sound, because it's got it's own graphic hardware. But many games, especially the ones that were ported to both systems, simply had the same sound on the 7800. As for worse, maybe cause your comparing it to the NES and SMS rather than the 2600? I've noticed no games with actually WORSE sound for the 7800. Maybe someone could point one out to me? But it's probably a game I don't have. As for Popeye on the 7800, I loved it for the 2600, and not so much for the NES, sound has little to do with it. Graphics have little to do with it. It controlled great on the 2600, that's where it counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdement Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I haven't played the 2600 versions of those games, so I don't know the difference. But there isn't any technical reason why the 2600 would have better sound, it would have to be a programming problem. Really, the 7800 is capable of better sound simply because it has more CPU time available to deal with the sound chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 But that still doesn't answer why if the 2600 and 7800 share the same sound chip, one sounds awful and one not so awful. Why not just rip the sounds from 2600 Mario Bros for the 7800 version? A 7800 version with POKEY support would sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzillajoe Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I don't mean playing 2600 Mario Bros. or 2600 Donkey Kong on the 7800 But the actual 7800 versions of these games have AWFUL sound compared to their 2600 cousins And one of the negative points that's always brought up about the 7800 is that the sound is terrible unless you use the Pokey like BallBlazer does. But the 2600 doesn't have a pokey and no one complains about its sound. Popeye sounds just fine on the 2600. So does DK Mario etc. But then you play the 7800 versions and it's painful. So both use the same chip but one sounds like ass and the other is fine. Lazy programming seem to be the answer though right? I mean there's no technical reason like the sound chip works differently in 2600 mode vs. 7800 mode. I don't know why the 7800 doesn't have any better sound. Sure it's useing the 2600 for sound, but techincally, it's useing the entire 2600 for sound instead of just the sound chip, so it should techincally have better sound, because it's got it's own graphic hardware. But many games, especially the ones that were ported to both systems, simply had the same sound on the 7800. As for worse, maybe cause your comparing it to the NES and SMS rather than the 2600? I've noticed no games with actually WORSE sound for the 7800. Maybe someone could point one out to me? But it's probably a game I don't have. As for Popeye on the 7800, I loved it for the 2600, and not so much for the NES, sound has little to do with it. Graphics have little to do with it. It controlled great on the 2600, that's where it counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PressureCooker2600 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 i found the NES and VCS version good. I've played the VCS version a lot more. But I enjoy on the NES version that it has the pirate ship level with that damn vulture. good times..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpfalcon2003 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 But that still doesn't answer why if the 2600 and 7800 share the same sound chip, one sounds awful and one not so awful. Why not just rip the sounds from 2600 Mario Bros for the 7800 version? A 7800 version with POKEY support would sound great. That would be awesome. I have the NES version of popeye, but not the 2600 version. I think the graphics could have been better for the 2600 though from judging screenshots on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jboypacman Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Popeye is a great arcade game and is pretty good for the 2600 and ColecoVision.I would love a 7800 version.I think it could be done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I don't know why the 7800 doesn't have any better sound. Sure it's useing the 2600 for sound, but techincally, it's useing the entire 2600 for sound instead of just the sound chip, so it should techincally have better sound, because it's got it's own graphic hardware. I think the difference in sound may have more to do with the processor than the sound chip. The 7800's processor works a little different. Sure it's got its own graphics hardware, but it's also gotta keep that graphics chip happy at the same time. Simply put, the 7800 has to do more work to keep up with the new hardware, and running well with what was then an old sound chip takes a lower priority than keeping the fancy stuff running. However, IMHO, the TIA chip can produce some excellent sounds. Poor sounds might be a sign of inadequate programming. Otherwise, I wonder why some games sound great on TIA like Beef Drop (yes, I've heard it using TIA), Dig Dug, Galaga) and others sound like crap (like Double Dragon and Ace of Aces). I, too, think a Pokey version of Popeye would be good. Don't underestimate TIA, however. She might not be Pokey, but when she is used correctly, she sings well. Personally, I think most games could get by on TIA, and Pokey can be used for those that relied heavily on their sound to round out the experience (Reactor, Sinistar, Ballblazer, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) But that still doesn't answer why if the 2600 and 7800 share the same sound chip, one sounds awful and one not so awful. Why not just rip the sounds from 2600 Mario Bros for the 7800 version? Thats because maybe you're refering to the "super game",carts that atari made for the 7800 games that boosted the sound quality with the added pokey chip?as the other 7800 games just used the 2600 chip,stupid huh!The pitfall2 cart contained a chip to boost the sound,thats why pitfall2 sounds so good,the 2600 couldnt do it alone.Ripping sounds over to the 7800 from the 2600 would just sound the same wouldnt it?,as the 7800 uses the same sound chip,im confused too!i might be wrong.The 2600 had pretty crude sound,IMO,unless with the aid of an added special chip to improve the sound, or from clever programming,i mean look at 7800 POLE POSITION 2,the engine sounds exactly like the engine sound ACTIVISION'S ENDURO produces.Atari decided not to put the superior pokey chip in the 7800,for 2 reasons from what i read,one is because there wasnt enough room on the 7800's motherboard for the pokey,and 2,too expensive,so they just put in the 2600 one,which ordered by Jacky Tramiel to cut costs,probably know all this already,buts thats my understanding. Edited November 13, 2006 by Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip_Cannon Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I don't mean playing 2600 Mario Bros. or 2600 Donkey Kong on the 7800 But the actual 7800 versions of these games have AWFUL sound compared to their 2600 cousins It's because you're looking at a game on the 2600 with crappy graphics and expect crappy sound. You look at a game on the 7800 with good graphics you expect good sound. Thats because maybe you're refering to the "super game",carts that atari made for the 7800 games that boosted the sound quality with the added pokey chip? Not all Super Game carts had Pokey and not all non-super games didn't have pokey... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 "Super Games" were marketing hoowey from Atari. There was no rhyme or reason to what they contained compared to other normal 7800 games. As a general rule (though not completely consistent) they were used to show that you could play "computer" titles on the 7800 thanks to a "super game cart". From a technical level, they weren't really anything special. Some included extra memory, but most didn't. Some regular 7800 games included extra memory too (ie. tower Toppler and Jinks). One included a POKEY chip (Ballblazer) while so did one non-super-Game (Commando). Most Super Games were only 48K in size (exceptions being the Epyx ports) which actually made them smaller than the largest 7800 games (144K). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzillajoe Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I don't mean playing 2600 Mario Bros. or 2600 Donkey Kong on the 7800 But the actual 7800 versions of these games have AWFUL sound compared to their 2600 cousins It's because you're looking at a game on the 2600 with crappy graphics and expect crappy sound. You look at a game on the 7800 with good graphics you expect good sound. Thats because maybe you're refering to the "super game",carts that atari made for the 7800 games that boosted the sound quality with the added pokey chip? Not all Super Game carts had Pokey and not all non-super games didn't have pokey... Perhaps. Dig Dug on the 7800 sounds nice though. Xevious, Galaga, Robotron and most other games Popeye could probably sound good without Pokey. The 2600 version captures all of the arcade sounds pretty much intact The same guy must have done the sound for all the Mario related games as those are the worst of the 7800 games. The sound of Mario running in DK is painful. And it's recycled for MB and DK Jr. too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBall Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 The sound capabilities of the 7800 are identical to the 2600 (other than the few POKEY enhanced carts). It's the same chip (TIA) which is also used in 2600 mode. Now, I'll agree with Trip_Cannon that the improved graphics will lead to higher expecations for sound quality (or at least reduced tolerance to bad sound). The skill of the programmer, as shadow460 suggests, is probably also to blame. And, yes, setting up 7800 display lists can be CPU intensive; but sound is typically done once a frame and shouldn't take that many cycles. One other item may be the sound hardware of the "original" version. One of the TIA's main limitations is its 5-bit frequency divisor. TIA sound was probably comparable to a lot of the early arcade games. But later arcade games would exceed it's capabilities. Again, better programmers could work around some of these issues, but others may not have been given the time to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 Well, if anyone wants to give a shot at writing it for the 7800, I have the sources to 7800 Mario Bro's which could be a good basis to write a Popeye game from. Curt The sound capabilities of the 7800 are identical to the 2600 (other than the few POKEY enhanced carts). It's the same chip (TIA) which is also used in 2600 mode. Now, I'll agree with Trip_Cannon that the improved graphics will lead to higher expecations for sound quality (or at least reduced tolerance to bad sound). The skill of the programmer, as shadow460 suggests, is probably also to blame. And, yes, setting up 7800 display lists can be CPU intensive; but sound is typically done once a frame and shouldn't take that many cycles. One other item may be the sound hardware of the "original" version. One of the TIA's main limitations is its 5-bit frequency divisor. TIA sound was probably comparable to a lot of the early arcade games. But later arcade games would exceed it's capabilities. Again, better programmers could work around some of these issues, but others may not have been given the time to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I wish I had the skill to do so, but right now, I'm still on page eleven out of four thousand six hundred thirty seven. Gimme a while to learn the system (yes, I'm still working with it) and then I might try it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PressureCooker2600 Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 I wish I had the skill to do so, but right now, I'm still on page eleven out of four thousand six hundred thirty seven. Gimme a while to learn the system (yes, I'm still working with it) and then I might try it... no pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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