130 replies to this topic

[DracIsBack]

Much has been said of the Wii's technical limitations in the graphics arena. While it is supposedly twice as powerful as the previous XBox, GameCube, PS2 and Dreamcast systems, Nintendo chose not to get into the high-priced, money losing graphics war that Sony and Microsoft are in.

So with that said, what are the games out currently that showcase the best graphics on the Wii? What's in the pipe that shows it to be above the previous generation in this department?

[ubersaurus]

As far as upcoming stuff goes, Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy look like they'll be a visual step up.

Don't think there's much out right now that exactly pushes the visuals of the console, though. Maybe Rayman?

[moycon]

Quote

While it is supposedly twice as powerful as the previous XBox, GameCube, PS2 and Dreamcast systems, Nintendo chose not to get into the high-priced, money losing graphics war that Sony and Microsoft are in.

Hu? Where did you get this info from?
Twice as powerful as the Xbox? I aint buying that. I find it hard to believe, how do they figure?
It's barely more than a Gamecube I thought with a new controller.
That said...Zelda looks good...Looks exactly like the Gamecube version.

Edited by moycon, Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:08 PM.

[remowilliams]

DracIsBack, on Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:50 PM, said:

While it is supposedly twice as powerful as the previous XBox, GameCube

It's definitely not twice the power of the Xbox or the GC from any perspective. Later in it's lifespan I'm sure it will be able to differentiate itself graphics wise a bit more from it's predecessor, but for the moment everything looks basically the same as the GC.

I'd agree that Metroid Prime 3 might be a bit more shiny.

Edited by remowilliams, Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:25 PM.

[moycon]

remowilliams, on Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:25 PM, said:

Later in it's lifespan I'm sure it will be able to differentiate itself graphics wise a bit more from it's predecessor, but for the moment everything looks basically the same as the GC.

Are you sure about this? I doubt it'll ever produce anything that couldn't be done on the GC. Because, My understanding is.. That more or less what it is. I thought CPUWIZ said the two units had almost identical specs?

[DracIsBack]

Quote

Hu? Where did you get this info from?

It's been spouted all over the place, though take note of the fact that I said "supposedly". If this is the case, in theory, Wii games should still start to look better than what we have now. And Zelda apparently isn't the best example as it was a GameCube game (and a good looking one) that was quickly adapted for the Wii.

Wii discussion on IGN

The context of my question is still the same. *IF* the claims are true and the Wii is twice as powerful as a GameCube, we should, in theory, start to see some sharper looking games.

[remowilliams]

moycon, on Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:16 PM, said:

Are you sure about this? I doubt it'll ever produce anything that couldn't be done on the GC. Because, My understanding is.. That more or less what it is. I thought CPUWIZ said the two units had almost identical specs?

It's a slightly higher clocked (and presumably a bit more tuned) GC, that's why I said a bit more, not tremendously so.

DracIsBack, on Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:18 PM, said:

The context of my question is still the same. *IF* the claims are true and the Wii is twice as powerful as a GameCube, we should, in theory, start to see some sharper looking games.

Don't hold your breath waiting to see something hugely different. There's a whole lot of wishful thinking going into those claims. Which is odd since the 'fans' rallying cry revolves around the Wii 'not needing graphics to be fun'

Edited by remowilliams, Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:26 PM.

[BydoEmpire]

Zelda and Tony Hawk are the two best-looking games I've played on the Wii so far.

[moycon]

Don't get me wrong. I love the Wii, and I think it's great fun. (Just like I thought the GC was great fun) but the first post is 100% BS sorry.

A better way to have asked the question would be.... What upcoming Game Cube games that you wont be able to play on your Game Cube because you have to play them on Wii now have the best graphics.

[DracIsBack]

Quote

Don't get me wrong. I love the Wii, and I think it's great fun. (Just like I thought the GC was great fun) but the first post is 100% BS sorry.

Once again, note the word "supposedly". I asked a question (legitimate as one who does not own a Wii) based upon the hype that is all over the net.

Edited by DracIsBack, Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:54 PM.

[figgler]

moycon, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:16 AM, said:

I doubt it'll ever produce anything that couldn't be done on the GC.

It will. Even now games like Rayman (as mentioned by ubersaurus) and Excite Truck have some pretty good visuals actually.
I'd argue there are only a handful of games across all systems that look measurably better than Resident 4 for Cube does. If you start comparing all games to a high standard example like RE4, you may have to wait a while until games are consistently outdoing it.
However, I found that the visuals in Excite Truck even are beyond what I would see in an 'average' game for Cube. Clearer lines, and some nice little touches that do make it distinguishable as a new gen game. I think anyone who has played GameCube for any significant time and then sees Excite Truck in action, would not at all mistake it for a Cube game.

[rockman_x_2002]

Sometimes these things require a quick glance over the numbers, so here you go: Wii Specs, GameCube Specs, Xbox Specs.

Now, my beef is a lot of people keep saying that the Wii is "equal" in power to the GameCube, but this is not correct by any means. To be sure, the Wii is hardware-compatible with the GameCube, but it surpasses the GameCube in graphics, processing power, and other factors. Recall that, while the Playstation 2 could play original Playstation games, it by no means indicated that the PS2 was an original Playstation with a few enhancements.

Study the specs for all three systems. You'll find that the Wii lands somewhere near about on-par with the Xbox in terms of processing power, and in graphical presentation it has the capability to slightly surpass the Xbox, though not by much. This puts the Wii slightly ahead of the Xbox, but quite a ways from the Xbox 360, which is as expected.

But please, don't say the Wii is just a "souped-up GameCube," because it really is its own little system. At launch we've seen games that are doable on the GameCube, granted. When the SNES launched, most of the games we saw could've been somewhat possible on the NES (exceptions being Mode 7 games). With time, I think you'll start to see Wii games come out that the GameCube couldn't technically do. Give it a year or so, then come back here and see.

[AtariJr]

i agree with rockman. and also, have you seen excite truck.. i NEVER saw water or for that matter reflections on shiney nice looking trucks like that in a gamecube game.. in fact, youll be hard pressed to find any bump mapping in a gc game. the speed at which some of that stuff goes by... even if this COULD be done on a gc, which i doubt, would be laggy as all hell.

[moycon]

AtariJr, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:23 AM, said:

i agree with rockman. and also, have you seen excite truck..

Hmm I'd have to pick that game up I guess, the only screen shots I've seen is pictures, and honestly it looked like a Game Cube game to me. I heard it was very fun tho, so I was planning on getting it sooner or later anyways. I dunno tho..water effects?? I ceased being amazed at those when the Dreamcast was out. Consoles seem to have no problem simulating elements. (Water, Earth , Etc...)

Edited by moycon, Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:30 PM.

[AtariJr]

moycon, on Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:30 PM, said:

AtariJr, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:23 AM, said:

i agree with rockman. and also, have you seen excite truck..

Hmm I'd have to pick that game up I guess, the only screen shots I've seen is pictures, and honestly it looked like a Game Cube game to me. I heard it was very fun tho, so I was planning on getting it sooner or later anyways. I dunno tho..water effects?? I ceased being amazed at those when the Dreamcast was out. Consoles seem to have no problem simulating elements. (Water, Earth , Etc...)

nah, actually if any game out of the 6 i own, excite truck feels the most "next gen" graphically out of all them.. thast including beating out rayman and zelda. not to say i woudlnt rather look at zelda.. just excite truck is using elements that gc games simply... didnt. on my xbox i saw bump mapping all the time and some reflections.. rarely if ever on my cube. These water effects not only are wavey like water, but fully mirror trucks and the environment, making some really pretty shots. yoru truck doesnt do cheesy mapping reflections like old games, where its just a scrolling picture over and over.. instead its the reflections of the environment (althought admittedly a bit low rez). also, while not as impressive, is the speed at whcih everything flies by.. even little details like all the grass and trees, they all add up to a game that simply i doubt could be done on a cube.. if it could, damn developers for not pushing the system.. this game is a very nice bit o' eye candy for Wii owners at least. Dont count wii out on graphics.. several review sites have said that the next wave of wii games are finally starting to break away form the gamecube mold, and look to be "developed for the Wii ground up with graphics notably enhanced" from gc type graphics. anywho, long story short, if i was playing wii games for grphics id be pretty let down, esp after seeing a ps3 kiosk of motorsomethingorother. that was mighty more impressibe then excite truck. but, there is a reason i have played this game for over 30 hours.. unlockables and pure fun.. nothing like ramping of a just made ground shift 400 feet in the air over a oil tanker or a bridge, past a tornado and through a ruble of 3 wrecked trucks to get to the finish line. Makes my Burnout games for my xbox collect a bit more dust than theyre used to.

Edited by AtariJr, Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:49 AM.

[moycon]

AtariJr, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:47 AM, said:

Makes my Burnout games for my xbox collect a bit more dust than theyre used to.

Ok now I'm definately picking this up.
Does this come with a Steering wheel attachment ? I don't think it does.
Does the steering wheel make a difference in these driving games?

[jbanes]

moycon, on Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:30 PM, said:

Hmm I'd have to pick that game up I guess, the only screen shots I've seen is pictures, and honestly it looked like a Game Cube game to me. I heard it was very fun tho, so I was planning on getting it sooner or later anyways. I dunno tho..water effects?? I ceased being amazed at those when the Dreamcast was out. Consoles seem to have no problem simulating elements. (Water, Earth , Etc...)

FWIW, screenshots don't tell much of the story anymore. Games have looked best in motion for quite a long time now. Especially nice little effects like Fox McCloud kicking up dust as he jumps out of his Arwing. (Yes, that's on the Gamecube.) They just don't show up on screenshots. Especially since we've been trained to assume that it will look worse in motion rather than better.

In addition, Nintendo's games tend toward "cartoony" graphics. This can greatly obscure how nice they actually look. Especially when players assume that the cartoony graphics are due to poor performance rather than intentional style.


(If you don't see the image above, click here for a graphical comparison between the Wii and GC)

In case anyone is wondering, here are the differences in specs based on the leaked numbers:

GC:
CPU: PowerPC based "Gekko" processor, clocked at 485 MHz
GPU: NEC "Flipper" GPU, clocked at 162 MHz
43 MiB main memory
3 MiB GPU texture memory

Wii:
CPU: PowerPC based "Broadway" processor, clocked at 729 MHz
GPU: ATI "Hollywood" GPU, clocked at 243 MHz
88 MiB main memory
3 MiB GPU texture memory

In effect, the Wii is twice as fast as the Gamecube, and has twice as much memory. Standard "computers don't always scale linearly" disclaimers apply.

Edited by jbanes, Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:01 AM.

[Hyper_Eye]

Here are the known specs straight from Wikipedia. The Wii is quite a bit more powerful then the Gamecube is but it would be hard to compare to the XBox as the architecture is quite different. I think the Wii is going to be capable of quite a bit more then the Gamecube if not for the major memory upgrade alone.


Wii:

Quote

Processors:

* CPU: PowerPC based "Broadway" processor, made with a 90 nm SOI CMOS process, reportedly* clocked at 729 MHz[39]

* GPU: ATI "Hollywood" GPU made with a 90 nm CMOS process,[40] reportedly* clocked at 243 MHz[39]

Memory:

* 88 MiB main memory (24 MiB "internal" 1T-SRAM integrated into graphics package, 64 MiB "external" GDDR3 SDRAM)[41]
* 3 MiB GPU texture memory

Ports and peripheral capabilities:

* Up to four Wii Remote controllers (connected wirelessly via Bluetooth) - five player capability using up to four Wii Remotes and at least one Nintendo GameCube controller
* SD memory card slot
* USB 2.0 ports (2)
* Sensor Bar port
* Accessory port on bottom of Wii Remote
* Nintendo GameCube controller ports (4)
* Nintendo GameCube memory card ports (2)
* Mitsumi DWM-W004 WiFi 802.11b/g wireless module[42]
* Compatible with optional USB 2.0 to Ethernet LAN adaptor

Built-in content ratings systems:

* BBFC, CERO, ESRB, OFLC, OFLC (NZ), PEGI, USK



Storage:

* 512 MiB built-in NAND flash memory
* Expansion available via SD card memory, 2 GB maximum supported capacity
* Nintendo GameCube Memory Cards (for saving GameCube games only)

IBM's Wii "Broadway" CPU
IBM's Wii "Broadway" CPU
ATI's Wii "Hollywood" GPU
ATI's Wii "Hollywood" GPU

* Slot-loading disc drive compatible with 8 cm GameCube optical disc and 12 cm Wii Optical Disc
* Mask ROM by Macronix[43]

Video:

* Up to 480p (PAL/NTSC) or 576i (PAL/SECAM), standard 4:3 and 16:9 anamorphic widescreen[44]
* Component (including Progressive scan), RGB SCART (PAL only), S-Video (NTSC only), composite output, or D-Terminal[45]

Audio:

* Main: Stereo - Dolby Pro Logic II-capable[46]
* Controller: Built-in speaker

* None of the clock rates have been confirmed by Nintendo, IBM, or ATI.

Gamecube:

Quote

Central Processing Unit

485 MHz IBM "Gekko" PowerPC CPU.

* PowerPC 750CXe based core(changes used in the Gekko were used to create later models of the PPC750 series. The 750FX which was developed after the Gekko is an example).[8]
* 180 nm IBM copper-wire process. 43-mm² die. 4.9 W dissipation.[8]
* Roughly 50 new vector instructions.[8]
* 32-bit ALU. 64-bit FPU, usable as 2x32-bit SIMD[8]
o 1.9Gflops on fpu(10Gflops means the whole unit in operations such as geometry engine, T&L, TEV and other, this number is not all on the cpu)
* 64-bit enhanced PowerPC 60x front side bus to GPU/chipset. 162 MHz clock. 1.3 GB/s peak bandwidth.[8]
* 64 KB L1 cache (32 KB I/32 KB D). 8-way associative. 256 KB on-die L2 cache. 2-way associative.[8]
* 1125 DMIPS (dhrystone 2.1)

System Memory

43 MB total non-unified RAM

* 24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM (codenamed "Splash") main system RAM. 324 MHz, 64-bit bus. 2.7 GB/s bandwidth.[8]
* 3 MB embedded 1T-SRAM within "Flipper".[9]
o Split into 1 MB texture buffer and 2 MB frame buffer.[9]
o 10.4 GB/s texture bandwidth (peak). 7.6 GB/s framebuffer bandwidth (peak). ~6.2 ns latency.[8]
* 16 MB DRAM used as buffer for DVD drive and audio. 81 MHz, 8-bit bus. 81 MB/s bandwidth.[8]

Graphics Processing Unit and System Chipset

162 MHz "Flipper" LSI. 180 nm NEC EDRAM-compatible process. Co-developed by Nintendo and ArtX.

* 4 pixel pipelines with 1 texture unit each[8]
* TEV "Texture EnVironment" engine (similar to "pixel shader") [10][11]
* Fixed-function hardware transform and lighting (T&L). 12+ million polygons/s in-game.[11]
* 648 megapixels/second (162 MHz x 4 pipelines), 648 megatexels/second (648 MP x 1 texture units) (peak)
o Peak triangle performance: 20,250,000 32pixel triangles/sec raw and with textures and lit
* 8 texture layers per pass, texture compression, full scene anti-aliasing[11]
* Bilinear, trilinear, and anisotropic texture filtering
* Multi-texturing, bump mapping, reflection mapping, 24-bit z-buffer
* 24-bit RGB / RGBA color depth.
o Hardware limitations sometimes require a 6r+6g+6b+6a mode (18-bit color), resulting in color banding.
* 640×480 interlaced or progressive scan
* Integrated audio processor: Custom 81 MHz Macronix DSP
o Instruction Memory: 8 KB RAM, 8 KB ROM
o Data Memory: 8 KB RAM, 4 KB ROM
o 64 channels 16-bit 48 KHz ADPCM[11]
o Dolby Pro Logic II, AC3 signal through "digital out" with D-Terminal cable

Storage media
A GameCube Super Smash Bros. Melee disc.
A GameCube Super Smash Bros. Melee disc.

For more details on this topic, see Nintendo GameCube Game Disc.

* Matsushita (2.000 MB/s-3.125 MB/s) CAV mini-DVD-like 8 cm optical disk. Avg access time 128 ms. 1.5 GB capacity.
* Memory cards of varying sizes for saved game storage.

The Nintendo GameCube Game Disc is the medium for the Nintendo GameCube, created by Matsushita. Chosen to prevent unauthorized copying and to avoid licensing fees to the DVD Consortium, it is Nintendo's first non-cartridge storage method. Some games which contain large amounts of voice acting or pre-rendered video (for example, Tales of Symphonia) have been released on two discs; however, fewer than two dozen titles have been released on two discs, and no games have required a third disc.

The GameCube can also accept Mini CD-ROM discs provided that they were formatted to the same protocols. Only third party items such as the Action Replay boot disc, FreeLoader, and Advance Game Port boot disc are mini CD-ROM's made by companies.

A common misconception about the GameCube optical drive is that it spins the discs in reverse (counter-clockwise) compared to regular DVD-ROM drives. The peculiarity of this rumor is that one need only open the disc tray on an operating GameCube to see that the disc clearly spins clockwise as it slows to a halt.

Some earlier and later revisions of the GameCube consoles developed disc read problems with the optical pickup becoming thermal sensitive over time, causing read errors when the console reached normal operating temperature. Failures of this sort require replacement of the optical pickup. Affected consoles had sometimes been serviced free of charge by Nintendo even after the expiration of the warranty period.

Connectivity

* 4 controller ports, 2 memory card slots
* A/V outputs: composite video, S-Video, component video (early DOL-001 models only), SCART, and stereo RCA analog audio.
* Resolutions: 480i, 576i, 480p
* High-speed Serial Ports: 2
* High-speed Parallel Ports: 1
* Power supply output: DC12 volts x 3.25 amperes
* Physical Measurements: 110 mm (H) x 150 mm (W) x 161 mm (D). [4.3"(H) x 5.9"(W) x 6.3"(D)]

Just for comparison here is the XBox:

Quote

Detailed specifications

* CPU: 733 MHz Intel Pentium III (Micro-PGA2). IA-32. 180 nm process.
o SSE. Floating point SIMD. 4 single-precision floating point numbers per clock cycle.
+ Resulting Gflops on cpu alone: 2.9Gflops
o MMX. Integer SIMD.
o 133 MHz 64-bit GTL+ front side bus to GPU/chipset.
o 32 KiB L1 cache. 128 KiB on-die L2 Advanced Transfer Cache (256-bit bus).
* Shared memory subsystem
o 64 MiB DDR SDRAM at 200 MHz. 6.4 GB/s
o Supplied by Hynix or Samsung depending on manufacture date and location.
* Graphics processing unit (GPU) and system chipset: 233 MHz NV2A ASIC. Co-developed by Microsoft and NVIDIA.
o 4 pixel pipelines with 2 texture units each
o 115 million vertices/second, 125 million particles/second (peak)
+ Peak triangle performance: around 30,000,000 32 pixel triangles/sec raw or w. textures and lit.
o 932 megapixels/second (233 MHz x 4 pipelines), 1,864 megatexels/second (932 MP x 2 texture units) (peak)
o 4 textures per pass, texture compression, full scene anti-aliasing (NV Quincunx, supersampling, multisampling)
o Bilinear, trilinear, and anisotropic texture filtering
o Similar to the NV20 and NV25 PC GPUs.
* Storage mediums
o 2-5x (2.6 MB/s-6.6 MB/s) CAV DVD-ROM
o 8 or 10 GB 3.5-inch 5,400 RPM hard disk. Formatted to 8 GB. FATX file system.
o Optional 8 MB memory card for saved game file transfer.
* Audio processor : NVIDIA MCPX (a.k.a. SoundStorm NVAPU)
o 64 3D channels (up to 256 stereo voices)
o HRTF Sensaura 3D enhancement
o MIDI DLS2 Support
o Monaural, Stereo, Dolby Surround, and Dolby Digital Live 5.1 audio output options
* Integrated 10/100BASE-TX Ethernet
* DVD movie playback
* A/V outputs: composite video, S-Video, component video, SCART, Optical Digital TOSLINK, and stereo RCA analog audio.
* Resolutions: 480i, 576i, 480p, 720p and 1080i.
* Controller Ports: 4 proprietary USB ports
* Weight: 3.86 kg (8.5 lb)
* Dimensions: 320 × 100 × 260 mm (12.5 × 4 × 10.5 in)

[remowilliams]

What is that picture of Link on the Wii side from? Because it sure as hell isn't from Zelda TP.

[AtariJr]

moycon, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:05 AM, said:

AtariJr, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:47 AM, said:

Makes my Burnout games for my xbox collect a bit more dust than theyre used to.

Ok now I'm definately picking this up.
Does this come with a Steering wheel attachment ? I don't think it does.
Does the steering wheel make a difference in these driving games?

no, your thinking of the Ubisoft racing games.. both of which i wouldnt recommend by the way. nah you just tilt the controller on the side and tilk it side to side to stear, up and down to level your truck.

at first the game might not seem that fast, but you need to learn the boost system. if you land on all 4 tires, boost, if you just go of a ramp and tap the boost button, boost, hold the boost button boost, if you crash .. boost. it actually makes burnout seem slow.. and the hieght of the jumps just is nothing short of freakin awesome sometimes... nothing like being 500 feet i nthe air, hearing the wind wistle by, and looking down seeinng water, a few dozen trees and a huge tornado ahead. Seriously.. its one of the games i got for christmas that i was really hesitant about.. theres no reason to be. just PLEASE before playing get an sd card with music on it. the experience of the game without good music just severly goes down hill, trust me

[moycon]

remowilliams, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:55 PM, said:

What is that picture of Link on the Wii side from? Because it sure as hell isn't from Zelda TP.

Yep that's my first thought. Its a very nice picture though. Reminds me of a story I just read....

http://xbox360.ign.c...8/758402p1.html

Maybe thats a picture of Link done on the 360 as well? LOL

I dunno tho, time will tell if the Wii ever blows the GC out of the way, don't get me wrong, I'm sure the Wii games 2 years from now will be better looking than the ones now, I'm also sure that GC would look better 2 years from now, so go figure.

I picked up a 1 Gig SD card for the Wii awhile back, so I'll be good to go when I do get ET AtariJr, hopefully they will figure out why your songs keep duplicating.

[jbanes]

remowilliams, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:55 PM, said:

What is that picture of Link on the Wii side from? Because it sure as hell isn't from Zelda TP.

Oh, sorry. I got distracted and forgot to reply!

The images are obviously comparisons of Super Smash Bros. Melee to Super Smash Bros. Brawl. That's why the Great Fox looks so misshapen in both images.

Here's an image of some of the characters together:



Nintendo still hasn't announced a release date for it.

[remowilliams]

jbanes, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:51 PM, said:

The images are obviously comparisons of Super Smash Bros. Melee to Super Smash Bros. Brawl. That's why the Great Fox looks so misshapen in both images.

All those images are some kind of crazy ass wild wishing. Did they decide to take a cue from the 'real screenshots' of the PS2 launch? Those are very nice pictures, and have nothing to do with anything you're ever going to see on the Wii

Here's a reality check - this is what Link looks like in Zelda.

Edited by remowilliams, Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:26 PM.

[figgler]

Here's a reality check - that's a GCN game.

Edited by figgler, Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:22 PM.

[ubersaurus]

remowilliams, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:59 PM, said:

jbanes, on Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:51 PM, said:

The images are obviously comparisons of Super Smash Bros. Melee to Super Smash Bros. Brawl. That's why the Great Fox looks so misshapen in both images.

All those images are some kind of crazy ass wild wishing. Did they decide to take a cue from the 'real screenshots' of the PS2 launch? Those are very nice pictures, and have nothing to do with anything you're ever going to see on the Wii

Here's a reality check - this is what Link looks like in Zelda.

Uh, is this a bad time to mention that all of those Smash Bros Brawl pictures are from the real time gameplay demo? Seriously, the first one was from last May, you really should check it out.

Melee's character models were pretty impressive for its day as well, and you only ever got to see the details in the pause button closeups.