1156 replies to this topic

[Omegamatrix]

This thread is devoted to comparing the old era roms of the atari 2600 library. Have you ever wondered why there is 3 versions of a particular rom with no visible differences? Well you're not alone! Here is a place to discuss what the actual differences are between roms, and what changes were made to them.

Differences in roms range from small bug fixes that are hardly noticeable to a mysterious pirate company doing such an elaborate hack the original game becomes no longer recognizable. Then there are those changes that seem to make no sense at all, and they can be some of the more interesting ones to figure out. Within these roms we sometimes find subtle clues. These clues can guide us like a treasure map to the true origins of a game manufacture or give us an idea of who pirated who. The tools we have for this are our disassemblers, hex editors, and analytical logic. By sourcing which roms belong to which carts we can create a chronological record of the history of Atari!

The following is a compiled list of games that are as of yet un-dumped. If you can possibly help out dumping one of these titles then please let us know! The blue titles will link you to Atarimania's extensive list Atari 2600 titles for additional information and cartridge scans of this mostly Non-NTSC list. However, I highly recommend AtariAge's own 2600 database for the best Atari 2600 NTSC rarity guide out there, which can be found here. Now without further delay, on with the list!!



NTSC
- 8-in-1 Cartridge - Seamonster / Space Tunnel / Phantom Tank / Open Sesame! / Dancing Plate / Bobby Is Going Home / Mission 3,000 A.D. / Mr. Postman (Bit Corporation)
- Assault (Bomb) - the other 3 bomb carts had different roms, will this one too?
- Asterix (Atari) - Thanks Dino!
- Bachelor Party (PlayAround) - from the Playaround double ender, it displays the Playaround logo (not the Mystique logo) on the screen.
- Beat'Em & Eat'Em (PlayAround) - from the Playaround double ender, it displays the Playaround logo (not the Mystique logo) on the screen.
- Birthday Mania (Personal Games Company) - only one copy of this game is known of to date.
- BMX Air Master (Atari) - the TNT version is common, but is the NTSC Atari rom the same?
- Bridge (Activision) - the very first run of carts had a glitch that caused the game to crash. This particular "glitched" version has never been dumped.
- Challenge (Funvision - Halley's Comet)
- CompuMate (Spectravideo) - Thanks Mitch, and Eckhard!
- Demonstration Cart #1 (Playaround) - Thanks Jerry G!
- Demonstration Cart #2 (Playaround) - extremely rare, these adult cartridges were probably used at Playaround's display booth during expositions. I feel dirty just thinking about 'em...
- Gameline Master Module (Control Video Corporation) - Thanks Mitch, Will, and Eckhard!
- Imagic Selector V2 (Imagic) - different version of the built-in program for the Imagic store kiosk.
- Mission 3,000 A.D. (Bit Corporation)
- PictureMate (Spectravideo)
- Red Sea Crossing (Steve Stack, Inc.) - magazine ads confirm these game is real.
- Songmate (Spectravideo) - Thanks High Voltage, and Amstari!
- Starpath Supercharger In-Store Demonstration Unit (Starpath) - a link to a relevant topic which explains the unit is included here...
- SwordQuest - Earthworld (Atari) - an alternate version exists with different clues.
- Wall Defender (Bomb) - Thanks Lucky Man, and Mitch!
- Z-Tack (Bomb) - Thanks Lucky Man!



PAL
- 4 Game in One - Jumble Block / Highway / Flight Path / Rodeo Champ (Bit Corporation)
- 4 Game in One - Jumble Block / Highway / Flight Path / Rodeo Champ (Bit Corporation) CP403 - yes, it is a different cart then the one above.
- 4 Game in One - Laser Blaser / Eskimo Jump / Turtle Race / Snow Hunter (Bit Corporation)
- 4 Game in One - Laser Blaser / Eskimo Jump / Turtle Race / Snow Hunter (Bit Corporation) CP405 - different cart then the one above.
- 4 Game in One - Kung Fu / High Way / Space Hunter / Mission 3,000 A.D. (Bit Corporation)
- 4 Game in One - Open, Sesame / Bobby Is Going Home / Snail Against Squirrel / Mr. Postman (Bit Corporation)
- 4 Game in One - Seamonster / Open, Sesame! / Dancing Plate / Mission 3,000AD (Bit Corporation)
- 4 Game in One - Space Tunnel / Phantom Tank / Bobby Is Going Home / Mr. Postman (Bit Corporation)
- 16 in 1 Game Cartridge (Atari) - similar looking to Atari's 32 in 1 cart, with a red label.
- Airlock (Gameworld)
- Bachelor Party (Mystique)
- Bachelor Party / Gigolo (PlayAround) - the Mystique double ender also.
- Bachelorette Party (Mystique)
- Bachelorette Party / Burning Desire (PlayAround) - the Mystique double ender also.
- Beat'Em & Eat'Em / Lady in Wading (PlayAround) - double ender
- Black Hole (Hot Shot / Goliath) - the German version also.
- Bridge (Activision)
- BurgerTime (Telegames)
- Cathouse Blues (Mystique)
- Challenge (Funvision) - no greater challenge exists... then confirming the original.
- Coco Nuts (Telesys)
- Commando Raid (Carrere Video)
- Condor Attack (Funvision) - the T-Handle version also.
- Cosmic War (Home Vision) - Thanks Pangasinan!
- Custer's Revenge (Mystique) - Thanks Dino!
- Dancing Plate (Puzzy / Bit Corporation) - Thanks Dino!
- Demolition Herby (Telesys)
- Decathlon (HES)
- Der Flinke Architekt (Quelle)
- Fast Food (Telesys)
- Forest (Hot Shot / Goliath)
- Gigolo (Mystique)
- Inca Gold (Funvision T-Handle) - thought to be the original of this often pirated game.
- Journey Escape (Gameworld) - Thanks Pangasinan!
- Jungle Fever (Mystique)
- Jungle Fever / Knight on the Town (PlayAround) - double ender, only the "Knight on the Town" end has ever been dumped.
- Knight on the Town (Mystique)
- Lady in Wading (Mystique)
- M*A*S*H (20th Century Fox)
- Mafia (Hot Shot / Goliath) - a.k.a. Gangster Alley
- Magic Puzzle (Hot Shot / Goliath) - a.k.a. Dice Puzzle
- Marine Wars (Gakken) - Thanks Kiki77, and Eckhard!
- Mazy Match (Pet Boat) - pirate of an unknown Datatech game
- Open, Sesame! (Puzzy / Bit Corporation) - Thanks Dino!
- Pete Rose Baseball (HES)
- Phantom Tank (Puzzy / Bit Corporation) - Thanks Pangasinan!
- Phantom-Panzer (Quelle) - a.k.a. Tanks But No Tanks, Phantom Tank
- Philly Flasher (Mystique)
- Philly Flasher / Cathouse Blues (PlayAround) - double ender
- Pigs ‘n’ Wolf (HES) - a.k.a. Oink!
- River Patrol (TigerVision)
- Plate Mania (Home Vision) - a.k.a. Dishaster, Dancing Plate
- Sea Master (Hot Shot / Goliath) - a.k.a. Sea Monster
- Sea Monster (Hot Shot / Goliath)
- Sea Monster (Puzzy / Bit Corporation) - Thanks Dino!
- Skin Diver (Hot Shot / Goliath) - a.k.a. Sea Hunt, Scuba Diver, Bi! Bi! (German version also needs dumping).
- Sneak ‘n Peek (Carrere Video)
- Shark Attack (Apollo) - Thanks Pangasinan!
- Space Raider (Hot Shot / Goliath) - a.k.a. Assault, Fire Birds, Sky Alien
- Space Robot (Hot Shot / Goliath) - hack of Missile Command
- Space Tunnel (Puzzy / Bit Corporation) - Thanks Dino!
- Spacechase (Apollo) - Thanks Pangasinan!
- Squirrel & Snail (Hot Shot / Goliath) - a.k.a. Snail Against Squirrel
- Star Warrior (HES) - a.k.a. Star Wars - The Empire Strikes Back
- Stargunner (Telesys)
- Stronghold (CommaVid)
- Super-Six I Kassette - Mafia / Felix Return / Squirrel & Snail / Astro Attack / Tom Boy / Ground Zero (Hot Shot / Goliath)
- Time Warp (Funvision T-Handle) - Thanks Dino!
- Tom Boy (Hot Shot / Goliath) - a.k.a. Pitfall!
- Topy (Home Vision) - a.k.a. Mole Hunter
- Turmoil (20th Century Fox)
- Vorführ-Cassette Nr. 1 - Mafia / Time Machine / Ground Zero / Overkill / Magic Puzzle / Felix Return (Hot Shot / Goliath)
- Vorführ-Cassette Nr. 2 - Space Raider / Time Race / Space Eagle / Astro Attack / Dream Flight / Squirrel + Snail (Hot Shot / Goliath)
- X’Mission (Home Vision) - a.k.a. UFO Patrol, Raumpatrouille
- X-Man (Universal Gamex Corporation) - Thanks bfstats!




SECAM
- Decathlon (Activision)
- H.E.R.O. (Activision)
- Keystone Kapers (Activision)
- River Raid (Activision)
- Space Shuttle (Activision)


The SECAM carts above are marked by the white "S" sticker on the front:





THREAD INDEX (under construction)


NTSC

- Asteroids ............. [1] [2]
- Astroblast ............ [1] [2]
- Bridge ................ [1]
- Commando .............. [1]
- Crystal Castles ....... [1]
- Decathalon ............ [1] [2]
- Demon Attack .......... [1]
- Dodge 'Em ............. [1] [2]
- Missile Command ....... [1]
- RealSports Soccer ..... [1]
- Space Shuttle ......... [1] [2]
- Superman .............. [1] [2]
- Zellers carts ......... [1]


PAL

- Bomb Carts ............ [1]
- Space Invaders ........ [1]

Edited by Omegamatrix, Wed Feb 8, 2012 11:33 PM.

[Rom Hunter]

Thanks, Omegamatrix.

I'll add them to our database immediately.

Peter Rittwage did a NTSC King Kong conversion in 2005, but I'm very glad with your original NTSC ROM.

[Urchlay]

Hm, have you got a way to play the 288-line ROM on a real NTSC 2600? If the colors are different from the 261-line one that you dumped, then the 288-line version was at least intended to be PAL. If the colors are the same, then I dunno what's going on...

[Rom Hunter]

Colors are different.

[Omegamatrix]

I have been talking with some great guy, and he kindly dumped some PAL versions for me:

 PAL_bomb_carts.zip   12.44K   226 downloads

He said two of the dumps came from the Bomb double pack cart (DC II). The Great Escape dump in this is where it should be at 310 lines. So where did the other dump at 288 lines come from?

Rom I looked and downloaded the other versions of Great Escape of Atarimania. Using Clonespy the entries for Asteroid belt (Suntek) and Time Machine (Hot Shot/Goliath) are the same as the 310 line dump. The one for Asteroid Fire matched the the 288 line dump. My question is where these actually dumped from a Suntek or Homevision cart? I thought they usually had their logo on the screen. If anyone has Asteroid Fire, Asteroid Belt, or Time Machine can they dump them please? Maybe that is where the 288 line dump is coming from??

I never realised Bomb carts were all pirates. I thought they were originals in my naive NTSC thinking.

[Omegamatrix]

Urchlay, on Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:02 PM, said:

Hm, have you got a way to play the 288-line ROM on a real NTSC 2600? If the colors are different from the 261-line one that you dumped, then the 288-line version was at least intended to be PAL. If the colors are the same, then I dunno what's going on...

Yep, I loaded it on my Krok cart. The rom doesn't appear corrupt like some dumps of Sir Lancelot and Congo Bongo. I am a little bit color blind though and coudn't really see a difference. I have to rely on rom dumps and clonespy, as well as emulators for scan line counts, two TV's (one that rolls with PAL carts, one that doesn't), and my Krok cart to test dumped and downloaded roms on real hardware.

[SeaGtGruff]

Omegamatrix, on Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:10 PM, said:

Where did the rom that is out there for NTSC Great Escape come from? When you put it through the emulator and count the scan line count it is 288 lines.

[snippity-do-dah]

I'm wondering about Wall Defender too. It has 280 lines,

If the colors are different than the NTSC versions, as Rom Hunter said, then they are PAL versions. The actual scan line count is less important than the color palette used, since NTSC/PAL/SECAM are more correctly thought of as different color-signal-encoding formats than frame length/frame time formats. (That's why "PAL/60" is still PAL even though it has 262 lines! ) Of course for PAL it's important that the line count be *even* or the picture could (will?) come out as black and white instead of color. Assuming a funky 280-line or 288-line screen doesn't "weird out" a PAL TV, one possible advantage of using fewer than 312 lines is that the frame rate will be a little faster than "regular" PAL:

312.5 * 50 = 15625
15625 / 280 = 55.8 Hz

312.5 * 50 = 15625
15625 / 288 = 54.25 Hz

Michael

[Rom Hunter]

Omegamatrix,

According to Stella.pro:

Your Assault (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is actually: Monster aus dem All (PAL) (Taiwan SP-2xx Series)
Your Great Escape (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is actually: Time Machine (PAL) (Hot Shot)
Your Wall-Defender (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is actually: Break-Down (PAL) (Dynamics)
Your Z-Tack (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is actually: Base Attack (PAL) (Home Vision) - which has different graphics!

And the 288 Great Escape (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is just called: Great Escape (Bomb)

Edited by Rom Hunter, Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:03 PM.

[Omegamatrix]

Rom Hunter, on Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:12 PM, said:

Omegamatrix,

According to Stella.pro:

Your Assault (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is actually: Monster aus dem All (PAL) (Taiwan SP-2xx Series)
Your Great Escape (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is actually: Time Machine (PAL) (Hot Shot)
Your Wall-Defender (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is actually: Break-Down (PAL) (Dynamics)
Your Z-Tack (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is actually: Base Attack (PAL) (Home Vision) - which has different graphics!

And the 288 Great Escape (PAL) (Bomb) ROM is just called: Great Escape (Bomb)

I've never used Stella.pro and don't know if it's part of the Stella emulator that compares roms like Clonespy, or is just a list of roms that are the same to each other.

So Base Attack was hacked into Z-Tack? That's how I interpet your reply. I've been talking to another party again and I recieved some more rom dumps. This time the roms were for Asteroid Belt and Time Machine. Both matched the PAL Great Escape dump I posted of 310 lines 100%. Now all we need is someone who owns Asteroid Fire to dump it and compare. According to the other party it somewhat rare though. Maybe Marcos has it and we can send him a rom dumper to dump a few thousand games.

As well we need someone to dump a NTSC Wall Defender.

[Rom Hunter]

Well, the Wall-Defender floating around has 280 scanlines, which is NTSC.

It would be great if someone could dump the four original PAL Bomb - Onbase games, though.

(just like Jens did with his Suntek games).

[Spirantho]

Rom Hunter, on Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:39 PM, said:

It would be great if someone could dump the four original PAL Bomb - Onbase games, though.

What do you mean by the "original" PAL Bomb/Onbase games?
There are only 4 aren't there (5 if you include that advertised but unreleased Bomb game which I forget the name of)....?

The four normal games are the ones which "someone" dumped for Omegamatrix.

[Rom Hunter]

I find it hard to believe that the person who dumped the PAL versions really dumped them from the genuine PAL Bomb - Onbase carts.

All his dumps are recognized as other PAL dumps and his PAL Z-Tack dump doesn't have the same graphics as the NTSC version.

BTW: the fifth Bomb - Onbase title is Splendour:
http://www.atarimania.com/zoom_frame.php?T...amp;NUM_IMAGE=2

Edited by Rom Hunter, Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:08 AM.

[Foxsolo2000]

Rom Hunter, on Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:06 PM, said:

I find it hard to believe that the person who dumped the PAL versions really dumped them from the genuine PAL Bomb - Onbase carts.

All his dumps are recognized as other PAL dumps and his PAL Z-Tack dump doesn't have the same graphics as the NTSC version.

BTW: the fifth Bomb - Onbase title is Splendour:
http://www.atarimania.com/zoom_frame.php?T...amp;NUM_IMAGE=2

I hold the belief that Splendour exists or at least once existed. It had to be virtually completed for why else was it advertised and enough of it had to be completeed for at least an artists version to be used. I wish that whoever posessed it would just contact Tempest and admit that he had it safe and well

[Spirantho]

Rom Hunter, on Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:06 PM, said:

I find it hard to believe that the person who dumped the PAL versions really dumped them from the genuine PAL Bomb - Onbase carts.

All his dumps are recognized as other PAL dumps and his PAL Z-Tack dump doesn't have the same graphics as the NTSC version.

In that case the dumps you're comparing them to are wrong! Those BIN files are the dumps of 4 kosher Bomb carts, with Great Escape and Wall Defender coming from the double pack.
So you'd better believe it.

[Rom Hunter]

I don't.

Are you the one who dumped them?

[Spirantho]

Rom Hunter, on Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:27 PM, said:

Are you the one who dumped them?

Yup.

[Rom Hunter]

Are you saying that Z-Tack looks like this:
http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...7272&MENU=2

instead of this:
http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...3697&MENU=2

???

[Spirantho]

Rom Hunter, on Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:34 PM, said:

Are you saying that Z-Tack looks like this:
http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...7272&MENU=2

instead of this:
http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...3697&MENU=2

Hmm.. they are rather different, aren't they...

I'll check when I get home.... but unless the files have got somehow mixed up, then yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...

I'll go home now and fire it up again to make sure. Expect a further post in about 25 minutes.

[Rom Hunter]

Thanks, Spirantho.

[Spirantho]

They say a picture speaks a thousand words...

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Omegamatrix]

Spirantho, on Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:20 AM, said:

They say a picture speaks a thousand words...

Your Z-Tack label looks just about as pretty as my Great Escape, Spirantho. Okay I've been looking at a few more problem NTSC roms out there. The quilty partys:

Congo Bongo
Sir Lancelot
Espial
Miner 2049er Vol. II

Rom & Al, Every dump you guys have on your sites is either a bad dump or PAL.

Congo Bongo and Sir Lancelot came to my attention in a Krok Cart thread. People couldn't get them to work because they were bad dumps. A good dump for Congo Bongo was posted, which I can absolutely verify that it is. I dumped the three Congo Bongo's I own and ran them through Clonespy with the posted rom and they matched 100% (also I tested it on the Krok). It's a good NTSC rom.

 Congo_Bongo.BIN   8K   291 downloads

Sir Lancelot is driving me nuts. I've downloaded a set of roms from the good2600 1.00, and the rom that is marked as Sir Lancelot (1983) (Xonox) is indeed a bad dump. My Krok hates it. The Sir Lancelot (1983) (Xonox) [a1] works just fine, but when I dumped my RH/SL and ran it through clonespy with the [a1] version they didn't match. Both work in the emulator and on the Krok, and I can see no difference.
EDIT: I have since learned what happened. Depending on what switches I enable on my dumper I get different results for Sir Lancelot as it is a 8k game. I can know match the [a1] version exactly. Even though both my old dump and new will function identically the [a1] is closer to a true dump so I am just leaving that one posted here.



Espial and Miner 2049er Vol. II also need to be dumped correctly in NTSC!!
Double edit: See posts below.

Attached Files

•  Sir_Lancelot__1983___Xonox___a1_.bin   8K   222 downloads

Edited by Omegamatrix, Mon Mar 3, 2008 12:50 AM.

[Omegamatrix]

Cpuwiz, if you have some time can you dump Espial, Miner 2049er Vol. II, Sir Lancelot, Great Escape, and Wall Defender for us? I know some of the copies you have might be sealed and therefore impossible, but if you have any loose could you help us?

[Mitch]

Omegamatrix, on Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:28 PM, said:

Espial and Miner 2049er Vol. II don't have a single good dump out there in NTSC. These really need to be dumped correctly!! I think the main problem is people think they have a good dump if it fires up in the emulator, but on real hardware it can be a garbled pile of steaming dung.

I know Miner II does because I posted it to these forums a year or two ago. It was dumped by Lee Krueger. I think Espial may as well, search for some old CC2 threads. A bunch of correct NTSC dumps were posted in there.

Mitch

[Mitch]

Here's the thread: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=610694

Mitch

[Omegamatrix]

Mitch, on Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:41 PM, said:

Omegamatrix, on Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:28 PM, said:

Espial and Miner 2049er Vol. II don't have a single good dump out there in NTSC. These really need to be dumped correctly!! I think the main problem is people think they have a good dump if it fires up in the emulator, but on real hardware it can be a garbled pile of steaming dung.

I know Miner II does because I posted it to these forums a year or two ago. It was dumped by Lee Krueger. I think Espial may as well, search for some old CC2 threads. A bunch of correct NTSC dumps were posted in there.

Mitch

Mitch, I just tried the Miner 2049er Vol. II that Lee dumped and it didn't work in my KroK cart. Espial that was shown in this thread doesn't work either. Is it a compatibility issue with the Krok??

Edit: I found what was wrong. When I downloaded just one rom on the Krok under the F3 bankswitching they worked just fine. As a multicart under F8 switching they won't work. I guess the Krok can't support both at the same time?? Both these roms are indeed good then in NTSC, and Atarimania has the right roms. Atariage has the wrong roms.

 Espial.bin   8K   277 downloads
 Miner_2049er_Vol._II.BIN   8K   271 downloads

Edited by Omegamatrix, Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:17 PM.