1169 replies to this topic

[Omegamatrix]

Yep, the April 08th version that was in your folder of Proto's and my 2 dumps both match. So either the date on the April 12th proto was written down, wrong, read wrong, or mixed up. I think read wrong is the most likely, as a 4\2\83 date seems plausible. I'd try asking David Winter to see if he still has the April 12th proto.


the April 12th proto is definitely not the final, and everything in the rom points to it being a bit earlier. Its just a few more touch ups that were added between the 2 proto versions.

[Buzbard]

Omegamatrix, on Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:42 AM, said:

I would guess that every non-copyrighted Asteroids is not date stamped, but not every non date stamped Asteroids is the non copyrighted version.

I have 8 picture label Asteroids carts. All of them have the copyright screen except 1 and it does have a date stamp on the end label.
I did notice a slight variation in the main label though.



The 7 carts that I have, that have the copyright screen, are the same as the one on the left and only one of them has a date stamp on the end label.
The one on the right does not have a copyright screen.
Notice the picture is slightly higher on the label and the picture seems to be shifted down. Notice the small asteroid in the lowest center part of the picture on the non-copyright cart is less visible.

But, as usual, that doesn't mean every non-copyright cart is this way.

I also have 4 Sears Asteroids carts with text labels, 2 have the "64" label, 2 have the "66" label.
1 of the "64" labels is a non-copyright cart that is date stamped on the end label, the other "64" does not have a date stamp.
Both "66"s have date stamps and do have the copyright screen.

[Omegamatrix]

What are the date stamps? If we look at the dates of non-copyrighted vs copyrighted carts, maybe we can narrow down when they switched to the copyright screen. I'll dig through my carts later and see what I have on hand.

[Buzbard]

Ok

"Atari", of the 8 I have only 2 have date stamps.
non-copyright = 321
copyright = 022



"Sears"
non-copyright "64" = 371
copyright "66" = 082 & 501

[A.J. Franzman]

This sample set is too small to be certain, but it looks like the copyright screen was added near the end of 1981 (the date codes are read as WWY; 371 represents the 37th week of 1981 and 501 is the 50th week of 1981).

[Omegamatrix]

I only have 3 date stamped Asteroids, and about 7 or 8 non date stamps. Two of the date stamps are the Sears pics while the other date stamp is a regular Asteroids cart. All my date stamps are copyright title screen. I didn't bother to check any of my non-date stamped Asteroid carts.


Sears Pic:
212 (both of them), both have copyright

Atari Pic:
12 2 R (has copyright)


This picture has my date stamped Asteroid carts plus 2 greys. The greys have no date stamp, and both greys display the copyright titlescreen. It makes sense that in 1986 you Atari would just be using the copyright rom. However, you never know what could have been happening in the chaos of Atari Corps, so I checked and included them for reference.





I agree with AJ saying a large sample size would be needed to narrow down a date. There are a lot of unknowns too, like whether they all came from the same factory, and if the factories switched all over at the same time, etc... I think it should be reasonably close though.


Also I found an old pic of mine with this regular Asteroids cart and the 12 2 R datestamp. It has a fat font end label and I have it sandwiched between 2 regular end labels for comparision.

[Rom Hunter]

Still looking for the Commando Raid and Sneak'n Peek .bins from Carrere Video.

Anyone got these two and is able to dump them?

[Pioneer4x4]

Pioneer4x4, on Sun Feb 7, 2010 10:46 AM, said:

Wickeycolumbus, on Sun Feb 7, 2010 9:51 AM, said:

Pioneer4x4, on Sun Feb 7, 2010 8:56 AM, said:

As for obtaining dumps, can an adapter to a eprom burned be made? If so, I might be able to read all of mine.

It should be possible to make an adapter for your burner, but it would be hard (maybe impossible) to dump anything over 4K. What do you have? Perhaps I can help you

I figured on the 4K, no bankswitching thing. I have a Xeltek Superpro which is an older very versitle programmer, that unfortunatly uses a propriatary ISA card, and dos software, so I need to keep an old PC just for it!
A supported device list is at.
http://www.xeltek.co.../sp2Device.html

I just picked up a 6 cart selector, and it made me think about this again. DO you have any ideas?

[Wickeycolumbus]

Pioneer4x4, on Mon May 17, 2010 11:39 AM, said:

Pioneer4x4, on Sun Feb 7, 2010 10:46 AM, said:

Wickeycolumbus, on Sun Feb 7, 2010 9:51 AM, said:

Pioneer4x4, on Sun Feb 7, 2010 8:56 AM, said:

As for obtaining dumps, can an adapter to a eprom burned be made? If so, I might be able to read all of mine.

It should be possible to make an adapter for your burner, but it would be hard (maybe impossible) to dump anything over 4K. What do you have? Perhaps I can help you

I figured on the 4K, no bankswitching thing. I have a Xeltek Superpro which is an older very versitle programmer, that unfortunatly uses a propriatary ISA card, and dos software, so I need to keep an old PC just for it!
A supported device list is at.
http://www.xeltek.co.../sp2Device.html

I just picked up a 6 cart selector, and it made me think about this again. DO you have any ideas?

The cartridge selector is useful if you are using a 2600 and need to hot swap cartridges. If you have a SaveKey, I can send you a dumping utility that copies cartridges to it (then you must dump the EEPROM inside it). You can also try this method:

http://www.atariage....your-fb2-games/

[Pioneer4x4]

Wickeycolumbus, on Mon May 17, 2010 11:59 AM, said:

The cartridge selector is useful if you are using a 2600 and need to hot swap cartridges. If you have a SaveKey, I can send you a dumping utility that copies cartridges to it (then you must dump the EEPROM inside it). You can also try this method:

http://www.atariage....your-fb2-games/

Thanks! Very interesting. I should have most of that junk around. Can't be more of a pain then when I had to read the key off my old XBOX so I could soft mod it after the drive died.

[Omegamatrix]

I was selecting some games for my Harmony cart, and I came across Maze Craze (Unknown).bin in the V5 collection today. At first this looks like a bad dump. This makes no sense.

Maze Craze (Atari)

LF460:
    lda    SWCHB                 ; 4
    and    #$03                  ; 2
    cmp    #2                    ; 2
    bne    LF476                 ; 2³
    lda    $BC                   ; 3
    ora    #$01                  ; 2
    sta    $BC                   ; 3
    lda    #0                    ; 2
    sta    $DC                   ; 3
    jmp    LF4BE                 ; 3

Maze Craze (Unknown)

LF460:
    lda    SWCHB                 ; 4
    and    #$03                  ; 2
    cmp    #2                    ; 2
    bne    LF476                 ; 2³
    lda    $BC                   ; 3
    ora    #$01                  ; 2
    sta    $BC                   ; 3
    lda    #0                    ; 2   From a breakif in Stella, I found:
    sta    ($DC,X)               ; 3   $FA02,X  where X=$FF, this is rom space!!
    jmp    LF4BE                 ; 3

The new instruction has no effect, and is only 1 bit different ( 1......1 vs 1....1.1 ) There is also one other byte that is different between the 2 roms, and it is in a data table:

LF0EE:
    .byte $BC ; |X XXXX  | $F0EE
    .byte $C1 ; |XX     X| $F0EF   $C5 in Maze Craze (unknown)
    .byte $C6 ; |XX   XX | $F0F0
    .byte $CB ; |XX  X XX| $F0F1
    .byte $D0 ; |XX X    | $F0F2
    .byte $D5 ; |XX X X X| $F0F3
    .byte $DA ; |XX XX X | $F0F4
    .byte $DF ; |XX XXXXX| $F0F5
    .byte $E4 ; |XXX  X  | $F0F6
    .byte $E9 ; |XXX X  X| $F0F7
    .byte $BC ; |X XXXX  | $F0F8
    .byte $C1 ; |XX     X| $F0F9
    .byte $C6 ; |XX   XX | $F0FA
    .byte $CB ; |XX  X XX| $F0FB
    .byte $D0 ; |XX X    | $F0FC
    .byte $D5 ; |XX X X X| $F0FD
    
    nop                          ; 2
    nop                          ; 2

That byte only has 1 bit different too, and doesn't seem to follow the rest of the table (notice how the bytes repeat themselves).


I've learned one of the best things to do when analyzing roms is to look at all versions of it (PAL, NTSC, pirates). In this case the PAL Atari rom is the same as the NTSC Atari rom in these areas. However, the PAL Quelle rom exactly matches the NTSC (unknown) at those bytes.


My conclusion is that the Maze Craze (unknown) is a good dump, but a bad rom. It got messed up sometime during the pirating process.

[Omegamatrix]

Rom, I'd like to direct you to a couple of posts here:

http://www.atariage....ost__p__2011236

And especially here:

http://www.atariage....ll-of-the-week/


I know you still have a few hacks in your collection that have the Activision logo in them (one of Fast Eddie springs to mind). I would remove them all. I don't think any of them are old era.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Omegamatrix, on Sun Jun 6, 2010 1:50 PM, said:

Therefore my conclusion is that the Maze Craze (unknown) is a good dump, but a bad rom. It got messed up sometime during the pirating process.

Might be bit rot. Or do we have a second cart dump which is identical?

[Omegamatrix]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Sun Jun 6, 2010 2:14 PM, said:

Might be bit rot. Or do we have a second cart dump which is identical?

It does look like bit rot, doesn't it? One bit is different at 2 locations in the rom.


What leads me to say the dump is good is that the Quelle rom also had these exact errors in the rom. I have no idea where the unknown NTSC rom originally came from. Hopefully Rom documented where he got it, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Rom Hunter]

Omegamatrix, on Sun Jun 6, 2010 1:56 PM, said:

Rom, I'd like to direct you to a couple of posts here:

http://www.atariage....ost__p__2011236

And especially here:

http://www.atariage....ll-of-the-week/


I know you still have a few hacks in your collection that have the Activision logo in them (one of Fast Eddie springs to mind). I would remove them all. I don't think any of them are old era.

Christ...

I wish I would have known this years ago:
http://www.atariage....100#entry775100

Well, better late than never, I guess.

I will remove these abominations asap.

IIRC it concerns the false Imagic ones, Fast Eddie, Turmoil and the Title Match Pro Wrestling with the Activision logo on screen.

The Skyworks ones were already removed.

Many thanks, Omega!


BTW: I don't know where I got that unknown Maze Craze from.

Edited by Rom Hunter, Mon Jun 7, 2010 12:50 AM.

[Rom Hunter]

It all makes sense now.

River Raid (Hack) (1982) (Unknown)
Atlantis (1988) (Activision) (AIX-010)
Fast Eddie (Hack) (1983) (Unknown)
Turmoil (Hack) (1983) (Unknown)
Atlantis (1988) (Activision) (AIX-010) [different font]
Demon Attack (1988) (Activision) (AIX-006)
Title Match Pro Wrestling (1989) (Activision, Alex DeMeo)

These were all dumped between 16-02-1998 and 19-02-1998, all at 1:00

Must be Rhindle's work.

I'll remove them from the V6 collection.

Edited by Rom Hunter, Mon Jun 7, 2010 5:27 AM.

[Rom Hunter]

Omega, are there any other ROMs to check that were mentioned before?

Edited by Rom Hunter, Wed Jun 9, 2010 1:05 AM.

[accousticguitar]

I have an Asteroids cart that is stamped "431" on the end. It has the copyright screen at startup.

[Omegamatrix]

Rom Hunter, on Wed Jun 9, 2010 12:28 AM, said:

Omega, are there any other ROMs to check that were mentioned before?

Do you mean with Activision logos?

I went back to V2, and here are all the roms around the same time. You can take a look. I don't have V1, wish I had kept that.

Attached Files

•  close dates.zip   34.09K   29 downloads

[Omegamatrix]

Here's the Asteroids list so far:


321 (week 32, 1981) non-copyright Atari pic
371 (week 37, 1981) non-copyright Sears text "64"

431 (week 43, 1981) copyright Atari pic
501 (week 50, 1981) copyright Sears text "66"
022 (week 02, 1982) copyright Atari pic
082 (week 08, 1982) copyright Sears text "66"
122R(week 12, 1982) copyright Atari pic
212 (week 21, 1982) copyright Sears pic - 2 copies
Atari Corps (1986 NTSC grey labels) copyright - 2 copies


The window is starting to narrow!

[Rom Hunter]

X-Man (PAL) added:
http://www.atarimani...-man_12073.html

Thanks to bfstats!

[Omegamatrix]

Rom Hunter, on Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:29 AM, said:

X-Man (PAL) added:
http://www.atarimani...-man_12073.html

Thanks to bfstats!

Good stuff! I wondered if this one was ever going to be dumped for a long time now. I'll take it off the list in first post.


It amazes me no one has a PAL Bridge, or PAL Pete Rose Baseball. Are they really that rare?

[Dino]

Omegamatrix, on Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:13 PM, said:

Rom Hunter, on Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:29 AM, said:

X-Man (PAL) added:
http://www.atarimani...-man_12073.html

Thanks to bfstats!

Good stuff! I wondered if this one was ever going to be dumped for a long time now. I'll take it off the list in first post.


It amazes me no one has a PAL Bridge, or PAL Pete Rose Baseball. Are they really that rare?

I think i tried dumping these a while back, along with the Atari 16-1 and pigs n wolf and couldn't get them to work on the 7800

[Omegamatrix]

Dino, on Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:49 PM, said:

Omegamatrix, on Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:13 PM, said:

It amazes me no one has a PAL Bridge, or PAL Pete Rose Baseball. Are they really that rare?

I think i tried dumping these a while back, along with the Atari 16-1 and pigs n wolf and couldn't get them to work on the 7800

Ahhh, makes more sense now. At least these aren't R10's. I did see a PAL Pete Rose on ebay.au a couple of weeks back, but there were a bunch of other boxes in the auction and the price went too high for me. I could justify paying about $10 or so for a loose one to dump myself... so I keep searching now and then. Maybe one day I'll snag one.

[Rom Hunter]

Omega,

What's up with the NTSC Asterix?

It's here alright, isn't it:
http://www.atarimani...erix_13734.html