Anybody actually *LIKE* Jack Tramiel?

[Atari 7800.com]

I am currently working on an Atari History article for Atari 7800.com, focusing on Jack Tramiel... basically explaining his bio, how he came into ownership of Atari, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

 

....However I'm running into a problem. It seems as all of the atari retrogamers I have spoken with (including myself) simply despise Jack Tramiel and his sons. This article comes down pretty harsh on the Tramiels, and I want to keep it balanced by offering the "Pro-Tramiel" point of view to keep things fair. I just can't find anybody with a "Pro-Tramiel" view, thats all.

 

So if any of you see the good in the Tramiels, or are willing to go on record to defend their business practices at Atari, please step forward and email me directly at AtariSuperhero@aol.com. You will recieve full credit in the article for your input.

 

Thanks!

 

Justin

Atari 7800.com

[Jetboot Jack]

I guess you've clearly identified your problem, to do a bio on an individual you've got to go a bit deeper than talking to a few customers...

 

Have you spoken to anyone who worked with Jack and his sons (at Atari, or Commodore)?

 

I worked for Atari, as did MANY of my fellow industry counterparts - and most have interesting and balanced views of his business. Most won't go to print on the matter though...

 

If you are looking to do a proper article I would suggest throwing the net a bit wider than "retrogamers"...

 

He was a businessman, trying to make money, try to remember when Jack took over Atari it was dying...

 

Try soliciting former employees, dig up the financials that show the rollercoaster fortunes of Atari and Jack's role in them...

 

Look at some of the successes of his reign - the ST, the profit turnaround, the expansion into Eastern European markets. Maybe talk to Lynx and Jaguar developers (Jeff Minter maybe)...

 

sTeVE

[Joey Kay]

I really like the guy too...

 

I'm in my final year of Business Economics at the University of Saskatchewan, and recently did a paper discussing Atari's turnaround. Atari was on the verge of folding when he took over and what Jack did was nothing short of a miracle.

 

There were countless national and international market forces beyond Jack Tramiel's control that destroyed Atari in the early 1990's. Certainly he made some mistakes, but find any CEO that's perfect. The man was a genuis in bringing low-cost computers to market in both his Commodore and Atari years, he saved Atari from death in 1984, and saw the company through some enormously profitable days.

 

I think a good guy to talk to about Jack would be Don Thomas. He probably knows the real Jack more than any of us ever will.

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

[Atari 7800.com]

I have spoken with many former Atari employees.... ALL of whom dispise Jack Tramiel with such a passion that they dont even want to get into it. This is why I have no other choice than to seek out those who support Jack and are willing to go on record as doing so.

 

Justin

Atari 7800.com

[Jetboot Jack]

Atari 7800 - since your original post did not say you'd spoke to any employees and I quote:

 

"It seems as all of the atari retrogamers I have spoken with (including myself) simply despise Jack Tramiel and his sons"

 

I assumed you hadn't spoken to anyone who had worked for Atari Inc, since I would not expect RETROGAMERS or RETROGAMER employees to like Jack - he brought a new ethos to the bloated corpse of Atari...

 

I'm sure people laid off in his restructuring, the demolition of internal sofware developement etc are gonna be less than complimentary. But many who did business for him, especially in markets other than the US will have different stories.

 

I myself found Atari UK, under Jack no different a client for my software than any other publisher in the business at the time - slightly disorganised, prone to late payments etc... BUT Atari took my products, paid my invoices and were always very straightforward and honest (More than can be said for Commodore in the UK at that time!!)...

 

sTeVE

[Room 34]

I'm in my final year of Business Economics at the University of Saskatchewan, and recently did a paper discussing Atari's turnaround.  Atari was on the verge of folding when he took over and what Jack did was nothing short of a miracle.

Speaking as one who is not an expert on Jack Tramiel, but simply an observer of late-'80s Atari vs. early-'80s Atari:

 

Yes, maybe Jack did save the company, for a while, but it was scarcely the same company. Look at what they put out in each era, particularly the quality of the artwork and design.

 

In the early '80s, Atari was the KING. Everything was quality. Sure, they may have spent too much money on things, and by '83 everything was off-balance. But what they produced had quality, and that endures. In the late '80s, under Tramiel, it was just about doing everything as CHEAPLY as possible, and a lot (not ALL, to be sure) of what they did was CRAP. Quality control tanked, too.

 

Specifically to the 7800: I really like the 7800. But the best work on it was done BEFORE Tramiel, and it should've been on the market 2 years earlier.

[iguana]

I too am an outsider, but my impression of him was from the buisness side. YOu must remember that Atari was all but dead. In reallity he had the correct plan, just his organization lacked the ability to make a decition and stick with it. his idea was to move Atari from the console based game industry to the Computer industry. This is why many "retrogamers" dislike him. He had to cut many jobs and turned to making cheaply made product. His only real blunders that I can disearn from a buisness standpoint were shelving the 7800 as long as he did, introducing the 5200 when he did and trying to repackage many of the older Atari products (i.e. the Atari JR and Xe line i think) By the time he relized what he was doing he had lost all the talent needed to move ahead on the computer line. But he did turn a profit for a short time which was amazing.

[atarifan49]

He had to cut many jobs and turned to making cheaply made product.

 

The basic rule of thumb in determining who got canned and who stayed was if you could program 68000 or not.

 

You need to remember that during the first part of 1984' date=' just before Jack took over, Atari was loosing a million dollars a day. They had a former cigarette executive running the place who had really no clue about the business and missed the 1983 Christmas shopping season because of the Chinese factory opening problem (they had shut down their US production line because of assumptions made about that plant) and didn't have enough XL computers to go around. The Commodore 64 rained king during that shopping season. And anyone who was an Atari 8bit user for years after that can tell you what computer did your mainstream retailers (Target, K-Mart, etc.) carry software for....Comordore 64/128.

 

If there is one thing to point out about Jack Tramiel was the miracle of turn around he managed to do with a company that was in such a wreck. Years of mismangament neglect were not easy to clean up from. Not only did he have creditors to deal with when he assumed the company but some pretty hefty obiligations like the "Earth/Fire/Water/Air World" contest that was still going on.

 

He had a good idea in the "Power without the price" concept. Because that's the bottom line for most consumers, price!

 

His attitude towards advertising was his biggest downfall. He was still thinking like he did back in the late-70's and very early-80's when he had armies of reporters coming to him for information and writing about his products and giving him droves of free advertising.

 

And lets not also forget about how he limited US distribution of the ST (and hurt a lot of Atari computer retailers) and favored the European market because he was making more money over there. When people did see the ads for the ST and tried to get one, they were not easily found and/or not available.

 

And putting his sons in charge to run things was not wise. Don't know much about Sam, but Leonard was not a thrill to meet. Meet him once and his arrogance filled the room! I could feel the worry in the employees heads on whether they were going to get into trouble and lose their jobs having some Atari fans take a tour of their HQs art department. Plus some of the internal correspondance that I've seen between employees about approaching Leonard on certain issues. For example, the Art Department wanted a copy of the Jaguar developers manual to better understand the information written in there about the color schemes on the Jaguar. He jumped on there case in the fact they didn't need to know how to program and refused to allow them to have a copy. What's with that?

 

 

His only real blunders that I can disearn from a buisness standpoint were shelving the 7800 as long as he did, introducing the 5200 when he did and trying to repackage many of the older Atari products (i.e. the Atari JR and Xe line i think) By the time he relized what he was doing he had lost all the talent needed to move ahead on the computer line. But he did turn a profit for a short time which was amazing.

 

 

Atari 2600jr is what your thinking. And I'm not sure what you're refering to about the 5200. I remember the 5200 (bunch of them) had appeared some years ago on the home shopping network. That created quite a bit of excitement.

 

 

 

In the early '80s, Atari was the KING. Everything was quality. Sure, they may have spent too much money on things, and by '83 everything was off-balance. But what they produced had quality, and that endures. In the late '80s, under Tramiel, it was just about doing everything as CHEAPLY as possible, and a lot (not ALL, to be sure) of what they did was CRAP. Quality control tanked, too.

 

 

You can be somewhat correct in that. A good example is comparing a circuit board inside the 130XE with the one in the 800XL. 800XL board was made with some high quality PCB material. When unsoldering components and chips from the board, it can take some of the abuse. A 130XE, when trying to remove RAM, were very notorious for circuit traces to pull up. Repaired quite a few of failed 130XE memory upgrades because of the cheaper made PCB.

 

 

There's one final thing I like to add, there were definetly four different Atari's over their existance:

 

- The Bushnell Atari (focused on arcade and home consoles)

- The Warner Atari (that we all fond and cherish in their glory)

- The Tramiel Atari (Power without the price!)

- and Atari Games (the surviving part of the old arcade division)

 

[ataribernie]

While I respect Tramiel for being a concentration camp survivor and founding Commodore, I don't think he was right for Atari. Atari was almost entirely a video game company and Tramiel had no interest in video games; only at the last moment did Atari start making video games again is when Nintendo started to dominate. He pulled the plug on many innovative ideas, including the 1090XL Expansion System and accessories for the 7800. He also cancelled the computer line when it was finally starting to be a success in 1993 and his refusal to adapt to the present led to the downfall of Atari in 1996. I can't help but feel that Jack and his sons could have tried harder to run Atari.

[DracIsBack]

Ahh - Jack Tramiel.

 

He did make a number of blunders, yes. On the other hand, there are a lot of armchair CEOs out there who think they could do a better job even though they don't always have a full understanding of the challenges Jack was up against or why he made the decisions he made. In many respects, I also have to pat him on the back.

 

As others have pointed out, when Jack acquired Atari, the company was losing 2 million dollars a day, the video game industry was declared dead and Atari was hated by the retail chain. Warner would have preferred to keep VD than Atari at that point. Within 2 years, he had paid off Atari's debts, made the company profitable, and turned the Atari ST into a big success in Europe. Within four, Atari was churning out almost a half billion dollars in revenue. For that feat alone, Jack deserved some applause. The fact that Atari survived through a recession, outlived Commodore and ended up ceasing operations with money in the back was another thing that deserved applause. The sheer fact that he was able to get Sega to fork over $90 million was another strong move.

 

Yes, he made a mistake by putting the Atari 7800 on the shelves for two years. On the other hand, I can understand why: retailers hated Atari for the millions of unsold cartridges, the competitors had jettisoned the market, and the Atari 5200 was a disappointment. Nintendo had an uphill battle to face when they entered the market because of the video game crash.

 

However, I think Jack made some mistakes with the 7800 which caused problems for all systems later.

 

1) He did nothing to support the system when he finally brought it out in 1986. He spent little on advertising or game development and kinda threw the old Warner games out there. Bleah. If I were him, I would have taken notice of Nintendo and Sega's style of games and started programming stuff like that in 1987 instead of 1989 to compete. I would have shelled out the cash for 1 megabit games right after Christmas 1986 and set to work.

 

2) The bigger mistake was trying to compete with three different systems: the 2600jr, the 7800 and the XEGS. I understand why he tried this: the 2600 had brand recognition and was cheap to build. The 7800 had the most modern hardware and the XEGS offered the most upgrade revenue potential. Still, it confused consumers and spread Atari way too thin.

 

This caused Atari to lose ground in the game industry and by the time they got to the Jaguar, people hated them and they were doomed. In retrospect, the marketing of Jaguar was much better than for the 7800 or Lynx: it had a more stylish look, more third party developers, more advertising and more stuff. Had Atari put the same effort into the 7800 in 1986 that they put into the Jaguar in 1994, maybe they might still be a contendor today.

[Joey Kay]

Hate to keep kicking this dead horse... but...

 

A good book to read about the state of disaster at Atari before Tramiel came is "Zap - the Rise and Fall of Atari" by Cohen, I believe. It's been a while since I read it (it's probably out of print now), but it is a FANTASTIC book.

 

Maybe check the library, that's where I found it!

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

[Atari 7800.com]

This debate over Jack Tramiel is intriguing, but yet only one person has agreed to go on the record to stand up for the Tramiels in the article. I have currently spoken with 16 people who have dealt with Jack on a business level in one light or another, and not one of them outweighed the bad side of Jack with the good.

 

Now don't get me wrong... I didnt start this thread just to bash Jack Tramiel, I think he did enough of that on his own. As a business man, he was mediocre. As a person, he was a jerk. I have dealt with him myself in the past, and I know several people who dealt with him on a *BUSINESS* level, and I can tell you from experience, Jack was anything but professional. Ask any Atari employee close to Jack or Sam's office who were there during the Tramiel age and they will vouch for many -a- screaming match, even between Tramiels. I am not anti-capitolist and I have a very good understanding of business practices, and one of the most basic things you learn about business is the bottom line... some of you support Jack by saying "Jack saved Atari!" ...or "well you have to remember what shape Atari was in when Jack took over to see just how much he turned the company around." ... well the bottom line is that he DIDNT save Atari. He liquidated it. He purchased what was left of Atari from Warner Communications, brought out a few of his pet projects which were named after members of his own family (ST seems awefully close to Sam Tramiels initials) and re-released the 7800 and 2600 jr primarilly to sell off the warehouses upon warehouses of games he had to unload, while supporting these systems just enough to keep them on life support in the retail market. Like I said, it comes down to the bottom line... Jack did not save Atari. Had he saved Atari, we would all be playing 128-Bit Atari games and sending emails on our brand new Atari computers. Instead we get all excited every time we see a commercial for Test Drive. Good job Jack.

 

Email me personally if you are willing to go on the record to support the Tramiels. I promise I wont be as anti-Tramiel then =) My email is AtariSuperhero@aol.com

 

Justin

Atari 7800.com

Manhattan Digital Media

[Jetboot Jack]

Ok - I'll go on record as positive

 

But I gotta take issue with your last post Atari700.com...

 

As a businessman, he was mediocre - funny that he sold 22 million C64's and kept on selling the 8bit LONG past its best by date. He introduced the best selling (for many years) 16bit computer line in Europe too...

 

Take off the Rose colored "before Jack wrecked the party" glasses get over it as far as the 2600, 5200 and 7800 were concerned.

 

The 2600 should have died in 1980 - it was only designed to last 3 years - if the gits at Warner’s hadn't been so keen to MILK the market they would have invested in a replacement (and no not the hobbled 5200) far sooner. In reality Atari's golden years ended in 1982 - crushed by stupid idiots like Ray Kassar long before Jack's abrasive style came on the scene.

 

The real Atari died in the early 80's Warner killed it. Jack's Atari was his company, run his way with his products.

 

So you didn't like them, so what?

 

Sure he cocked loads up - the Lynx, the Jaguar (why bother?). The ST was a huge success, in Europe, give the guy a break - at least he released NEW hardware the market wanted.

 

Even if the 7800 had been released in '84 it would have bombed - the software was AWFUL, the hardware a small increment of performance above the competition (Coleco) - the market would have balked at just more revised 2600 games, prettier, but not NEW titles – 5200 all over again. Atari was once prized for innovation in its games - no 2 arcade games alike - early VCS and computer products were like that too!

 

Nintendo would have plowed Atari and the 7800 into the dirt along with the SMS whatever date they were released!

 

sTeVE - I like old Atari and Jack's Atari too!

[atarifan49]

Steve / Justin,

 

You both make some very good points.

 

I'll be on the record as positive too.

 

Even though we probably all agree Jack, Sam, Gary and Leonard were not the right people for Atari, I don't ever recall hearing who else was willing to step up to the plate and purchase the company.

 

We can all point things wrong with each phase or era of Atari. But for me, I'll just continue to treasure and enjoy the stuff I've managed to collect over the years. And laugh when I see one of the current competitors in the video game market repeat the same mistakes of companys gone bye-bye long time ago.

[ataribernie]

Phillips was interested in buying Atari, I think as early as 1983.

[captain wrong]

@jet boot jack, I couldn't agree with you more. I think Ray Kassar probably did more to fuck up the videogame side of things (killing innovation, paying too much for licneces for crappy games, holding on to the 2600 far too long, etc.) but Tramiel always gets the blame. If anything, I think had it not been for Tramiel buying the company, I doubt the Atari name would have lasted the "crash" years and would have ended up like Coleco, except with out Cabbage Patch Kids to give them a breif life line!

 

IMHO, the company ended it's golden years when Nolan left. After that, it was just rolling down hill.

[atarifan49]

@jet boot jack, I couldn't agree with you more. I think Ray Kassar probably did more to fuck up the videogame side of things (killing innovation, paying too much for licneces for crappy games, holding on to the 2600 far too long, etc.) but Tramiel always gets the blame. If anything, I think had it not been for Tramiel buying the company, I doubt the Atari name would have lasted the "crash" years and would have ended up like Coleco, except with out Cabbage Patch Kids to give them a breif life line!

 

IMHO, the company ended it's golden years when Nolan left. After that, it was just rolling down hill.

 

 

Ahh, but if Nolan stayed and never sold the company we probably would've never seen the 400/800. Nolan wasn't interested in doing computers. Warner Communications was responsible for getting Atari into doing computers.

[Joey Kay]

Jet Book Jack and Captain Wrong...

 

those are interesting thoughts about who thwarted Atari...

 

I think what it really comes down to is it was Warner who drove Atari into the ground.

 

Now everyone wants to blame Tramiel because he didn't rebuild the "old Atari", but instead refocussed the company on computers...

 

Personally, I also like all of the Atari's for all different reasons... but I am most impressed with how Tramiel (at least until 1990 or so) did what Warner couldn't... make the company viable again.

 

Cheers!

 

Joey

[captain wrong]

Ahh, but if Nolan stayed and never sold the company we probably would've never seen the 400/800. Nolan wasn't interested in doing computers. Warner Communications was responsible for getting Atari into doing computers.

 

Excellent point! I doubt the compant could have even launched the VCS had it not been for a large infusion of cash from a huge company like Warner. I don't think the selling of Atari was the problem, I just think when Nolan left, there wasn't anyone in power who remembered that innovation was what made them successful in the first place.

 

Besides, my childhood would have been a lot less happy without a 400 to play Pac Man and Star Raiders on.