Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Hello Guys, i thought that it makes sense to open a new thread... find attachted the latest build of the PAL version (sorry guys but you can play it in the emulator). you can now walk up and down in the tower by entering the magic gates in the last room of each floor. just let me know what you think and what you discover... i am now playtesting the stuff on real 130xe and see how it goes... diablo12.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2007 Author Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) huj... haven't realised that i got new designs... http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=107682 i am off with my sweet heart but when i am back i have to implement those designs. Edited June 24, 2007 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Well, sorry to say it again, but on the real Atari the program does not load - unless you patch/relocate it (change memory). Afaik one of your version 11 or 12 versions used memory $0800-xxxx which does not work under any DOS or Gamedos I know... Luckily, I found a utility to patch it, though I am not sure if this patch will also work in your new version... -Andreas Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 (edited) Wow - very cool and I was surprised to see my name in the 'thank yous' - awesome My $0.02 First some kudos: Looks great - I like the movement and graphics The soundtrack sounds like something out of Ultima - very cool! Lots of potential to build from! Second a few bugs - 1. It appears the armour treasure 1/2 disappears, see the screenshot and this was consistent 2. When I went up a level the 'stat bars' at the bottom changed to some text info and didnt go back - there is some good info in this text which I would suggest putting next to the stat bars at a later date Third a few suggestions - 1. After a few rooms it started to get repetitive - In a later tower a wizard was added but the monsters seemed a bit sparse 2. Treasure didnt feel 'rewarding' - I didnt get much gold, and achieved Lvl 5 w/leather armor and a mace. Wish I couldve found something a bit more interesting (or bought ) 3. When fighting it would be nice if the character showed a different move to indicate a swing or something 4. Due to the monster movement and speed I was pretty much able to run around them and get to the door with minimal effort. Maybe the final room with the stairs up should have something a bit more challenging and also not show the stairs until the monster is killed? 5. Im not familiar with Diablo - if there a quest to the game? If not this feels very Gateway to Apshai'ish - not a bad thing but wanted to point out if that was/was not the intent. Great work - fun seeing this progress! Edited June 24, 2007 by Goochman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2007 Author Share Posted June 24, 2007 first of all thanks for your long feedback Wow - very cool and I was surprised to see my name in the 'thank yous' - awesome My $0.02 First some kudos: Looks great - I like the movement and graphics --- please have in mind that the gfx will be changed as cybernoid led me his gfx just to have something in. espire8 might jump into it and do some work as he has done with a quick mockup which looks very good imho. (and yes... we will have left/right gfx set... so no michael jackson moonwalk anymore... ) The soundtrack sounds like something out of Ultima - very cool! --- again... its just a placeholder i must admit as its the demo track included in the rmt pack to show how the sound fx are used... some of the board here is doing a brilliant work right now so stay tuned... it will blow you away... (i hope you are not disappointed that it will not be this track...) Lots of potential to build from! --- thanks... well...it took nearly one year to get so far... unbelievable how much work is in such small code... Second a few bugs - 1. It appears the armour treasure 1/2 disappears, see the screenshot and this was consistent --- YES... be patient... the armor is the only loot which has 2 chars and thats why the "pickup" routine can not handle that correctly. still... and i left it as its specially for Miker... 2. When I went up a level the 'stat bars' at the bottom changed to some text info and didnt go back - there is some good info in this text which I would suggest putting next to the stat bars at a later date --- Gooch... you can hit TAB to toogle the status line on/off... on the right side of the bar gfx i have planned to have character faces... what do you think? Third a few suggestions - 1. After a few rooms it started to get repetitive - In a later tower a wizard was added but the monsters seemed a bit sparse --- agreed... its kind of balancing issue as there are more than 10 monster types included at the moment. but the monster engine is only handling one per room at the moment and one type neverless what kind of monster it is...so in a perfect world we will have different movement patters and some AI (oops... who is going to write the enemy code... ) 2. Treasure didnt feel 'rewarding' - I didnt get much gold, and achieved Lvl 5 w/leather armor and a mace. Wish I couldve found something a bit more interesting (or bought ) --- depends on the game... i found in room #1 some nice magic axe... but again could be a balancing issue... at the moment its not much likely that monsters drop magic weapons... so what would you suggest as "reward"...is it in the end gold or is it experience or your player level? 3. When fighting it would be nice if the character showed a different move to indicate a swing or something --- yes. will be implemented... and... i tell you a secret... one of the atari sprites will be dedicated to the player weapon... so actually you will get nice looking stuff and its easier for animation. when thats implemented we might get rid off the "overlapping for hitting" issue. 4. Due to the monster movement and speed I was pretty much able to run around them and get to the door with minimal effort. Maybe the final room with the stairs up should have something a bit more challenging and also not show the stairs until the monster is killed? --- well...i could place nasty monsters right at the beginning and you would be killed by one hit if you want... like the guys at last bliz con said... "if we want to kill you...we could do this every time we want"... so again... balancing is the key... 5. Im not familiar with Diablo - if there a quest to the game? If not this feels very Gateway to Apshai'ish - not a bad thing but wanted to point out if that was/was not the intent. ---- yes... there are quest... but to be honest... i wanted to make the game as simple as it could be. i never wrote a RPG in assembler and it took much longer than expected and so much things to do...so quest will be done in a sequel... Great work - fun seeing this progress! my pleassure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2007 Author Share Posted June 24, 2007 Hallo Andreas, actually it loads on real machine... as boot disc... the game will be not released as .COM file as it is planned to be game released on physical 5,25 disc... and as boot disc i can have some nice title screen etc... i will not go for a .xex release i have to admit... not yet... and yes... i have moved code block to 0800... when the game is done i will relocate the whole thing as i have more than 24k ram left under rom... Well,sorry to say it again, but on the real Atari the program does not load - unless you patch/relocate it (change memory). Afaik one of your version 11 or 12 versions used memory $0800-xxxx which does not work under any DOS or Gamedos I know... Luckily, I found a utility to patch it, though I am not sure if this patch will also work in your new version... -Andreas Koch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroah Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) Hi Heaven, I've finally took some time to try your visually-nice game. In fact, not only it's cute, but it's enjoyable too. Really promising! Thank you for your gift. I've some questions, but even if i've kept an eye on your thread until the beginning, i hope not asking you an already answered question. I used the v12. - When i pick up an armor, it replaces automatically the existing one. For example, i've a leather armor, i move on an armor and i click, it's replaced by a plate armor. It's cool, but the next armor was a leather armor, losing my previous plate armor... It's the correct behavior ? - Maybe a bug from the previous question, but i've always had no more than 1 armor and several weapons in my inventory. - I took an item (a shield icon) and gave me a spiked club? But when i go to the inventory and press the key corresponding to its slot, it does nothing, i've still the dagger. - Sometimes the monster drops gold just before the last killing-hit, dropping another item at this last hit. Sometimes the same monster drops 3 items (a potion, a key and a shield). Each item is dropped at a different hit. - I've just picked up a shield-icon and it gaves me 13 AC, but it's still a leather armor. AC raise with level or characteristics ? - I've killed a monster dropping 3 stack of gold, one laying on a door, blocking my way! :'( (see the screenshot) - When i reach a new level, i unintentionally put some points in a characteristic because i was clicking to attack the monster. - The monster can move on wall (see the screenshot). - An armor-icon on the floor gave me a morning star... ? - a blinking half-scroll was dropped by a wizard (see the screenshot). - I can't pick up a key, and an item i can't describe, a weapon ? (see the screenshot). Sorry for all these points and questions, but i tried some games and everything occurs several times. I've some save state if needed. Sincerely, Pascal Screenshots from TL to BR: - Key on door, blocking my way - Monster on wall - Blinking half-scroll - Can't pickup the club-icon Edited June 25, 2007 by Kroah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share Posted June 25, 2007 Hi Kroah, thanks for your long feedback. Btw. I love your Mule decompilations (ejoyed the reading) and the Apshai stuff very much. Keep em coming... maybe someday we see Mule on the DS... find my answers: I've finally took some time to try your visually-nice game. --- Thanks... but still more to come esp. gfx wise... In fact, not only it's cute, but it's enjoyable too. Really promising! Thank you for your gift. --- thanks. i found it enjoyable as well but when developing stuff i loose the feeling for what is fun to be honest... so any suggestion/comment counts at the end. I've some questions, but even if i've kept an eye on your thread until the beginning, i hope not asking you an already answered question. I used the v12. - When i pick up an armor, it replaces automatically the existing one. For example, i've a leather armor, i move on an armor and i click, it's replaced by a plate armor. It's cool, but the next armor was a leather armor, losing my previous plate armor... It's the correct behavior ? --- its behavior is by design. i havent implemented "real armor" items yet. so thats why shields/armor give you "random" values. shields add a random value to existing AC while armor is randomly choosen by the game (leather, iron, plate, ... can not remember which 4 armor suites). at the end of the day we will have different armors as well like the weapons but don't underestimate the implication. an idea (not tested yet) will be that the armors will be treated like 'weapons" by the engine so they might become a subclass of the weapons which are dealing with AC anyway. but i have to check regarding RAM for the stats... - Maybe a bug from the previous question, but i've always had no more than 1 armor and several weapons in my inventory. --- armor is not treated like a weapon internally. so its not saved to the item buffer/item que. the inventory will get an expand when the new system is in place where you can toggle by "TAB" between armor/weapons like in several PS2 Games like Baldur's Gate or Champions of Nortath or Baldur's Gate GBA. but first i want to have a solid engine (mapper bugfree, item dropping bug free, monster moving bugfree etc). - I took an item (a shield icon) and gave me a spiked club? But when i go to the inventory and press the key corresponding to its slot, it does nothing, i've still the dagger. - that's strange. i never spoted such behaviour. but it could be that the shield was dropped upon an existing weapon icon and as i have written, shield/potion/armor are not treated like the weapons they are put "visually" over the weapon but when picking up the weapon stats are got from the item buffer. but this should not happen as the first key what is checked is the video ram and the char... so actually the weapon "below" another item can not be reached. - Sometimes the monster drops gold just before the last killing-hit, dropping another item at this last hit. Sometimes the same monster drops 3 items (a potion, a key and a shield). Each item is dropped at a different hit. ---- yes... i spend hours yesterday trying to debug the monster engine as it was working in a prior version. so i havent touched the monster engine for weeks so i am not sure what the hell cause this... i spotted that as well... and it pi.. me off why the hell a solved issue raises again... - I've just picked up a shield-icon and it gaves me 13 AC, but it's still a leather armor. AC raise with level or characteristics ? ---- simply by "when shield picked up add [random] to pl_ac". - I've killed a monster dropping 3 stack of gold, one laying on a door, blocking my way! :'( (see the screenshot) ---- yo... should be fixed. - When i reach a new level, i unintentionally put some points in a characteristic because i was clicking to attack the monster. ---- hmmm... any ideas how to handle that? should it be like in Diablo & co. that a "PLUS" appears and you can enter manually the upleveling? - The monster can move on wall (see the screenshot). ----- yes. still not know why as the margins are set correctly... but its on my list. - An armor-icon on the floor gave me a morning star... ? ----- virtually and in theory not possible but will have a look. - a blinking half-scroll was dropped by a wizard (see the screenshot). ----- the blinking scroll is the magic gate to climb up/down... and sometimes the sprite engine kills the char. but i have decided to put "stairway" there and they will be set manually by the engine each frame to avoid that... otherwise monster engine has to be debugged... could be a frame drop etc... so the engine gets confused... - I can't pick up a key, and an item i can't describe, a weapon ? (see the screenshot). ----- keys/emerald picking up is disabled as i have no idea what to do with such things... maybe i will have locked doors, maybe you need keys for the chests etc... Sorry for all these points and questions, but i tried some games and everything occurs several times. I've some save state if needed. ---- no problem... helps a lot... Sincerely, Pascal Screenshots from TL to BR: - Key on door, blocking my way - Monster on wall - Blinking half-scroll - Can't pickup the club-icon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter_J64bit Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 What no NTSC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share Posted June 25, 2007 re: ntsc not yet... flickers at the moment and the speed of movement plus msx is not adjusted yet... but screenlayouts etc all are based having ntsc in mind. but there will be a ntsc version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroah Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 (edited) I love your Mule decompilations (ejoyed the reading) and the Apshai stuff very much. Keep em coming... Thank you. There will be soon an update concerning Alternate Reality ST, followed by the translation of the mule document and something on Colonial Conquest. [snip] i loose the feeling for what is fun to be honest... so any suggestion/comment counts at the end. I think the fun of these games comes from 2 mains points: - The feeling of evolution (the character controlled by the player evolves during the game through his stats and items and feels it, not only numbers, ie the character moves faster, sees further...): you've already caught this point i think. - The feeling to have an impact on the course of the fights other by waiting the end of combat: i don't know if it's taken into accounts, but like gateway to apshai and archon, the player must be able to alter the fight not only with stats and items, but with its real dexterity too (like firing an arrow at the good time, running around the monster, doing hit-and-run, ...) i havent implemented "real armor" items yet. so thats why shields/armor give you "random" values. shields add a random value to existing AC while armor is randomly choosen by the game I understand. In fact the only missing feature here is to be able to know whether or not to pickup the laying armor. I don't think the player needs to keep them all in his inventory. So, how to give this information to the player? i don't know. Your way is a possibility. When i reach a new level, i unintentionally put some points in a characteristic because i was clicking to attack the monster.-- hmmm... any ideas how to handle that? should it be like in Diablo & co. that a "PLUS" appears and you can enter manually the upleveling? I really don't know the faisability: - Your idea about a '+' seems interesting. The character must then press a key to enter manually the upleveling. Personally, it doesn't bother me to hit an extra key for this. It's even better because after the leveling, the fight goes on and it's not always easy to understand the situation because the character and monster aren't visible during upleveling. With this implementation, the fight will not be interrupted. - If people don't want to change the way upleveling is handled, you could put the cursor on another location than the stats when leveling is called, having no effect when triggered. The player could then move the cursor on the stats. Last point: If the blue bar is the experience gathered until the next level, i think there's a bug when tabbing: - the blue bar is decreased each time tab is pressed. When it reaches 0, it loops. Any idea ? Thanks, Pascal Edit: I've added a save state where the player can't equip the weapon in slot B. It's visible, but when pressing B in inventory, nothing happen. Slot_Spiked_Club.zip Edited June 26, 2007 by Kroah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroah Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 It's me again I've just made another game, here's my observations: - sometimes when i pick up an armor, it writes the new armor name correctly at bottom left, but the weapon name becomes some garbage. Sabre became "S" and Dagger "D:" - After some levels, rooms connection were strange. I ended up in a cul-de-sac and when i gone back through the same door to the previous room, it was in fact another room. 2 rooms later, cul-de-sac again, and the previous room became another one again. Now i'm blocked between 2 rooms 62 and 63 without any exit (see attached save state). Any idea ? Thank you, Pascal 2_rooms.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Ok, played a little... I don't know if anyone has written about it but how about adding some armor/weapon wear (e.g. turn "shield" indicator into quality-meter of current shield and if it reaches zero, the shield will automatically disappear, and add that indicator for weapon - just to make the game more Duiablo-ish). Well - back to playing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 thanks Pascal for your thoughts... one thing will be implemented. while upleveling there will be an indicator on the screen showing that you can level up. by pressing "+" you will are able to level up but the action will be stopped. i guess a good compromise without rewriting lots of code. in first version i wanted to add the leveling into the "character screen" where it should be placed as there are all stats visible... but i would need to rewrite the whole code which i will not do right now because i fear to corrupt other modules... the save stats will be analysed as soon as i have more time... are you 6502 maniac? if so and you have time...let us sign a NDA and you will get the sources... just kidding. the phenomenom with the "room connections" corrupt i might found the bug... imho it appears in the last room... walk into the last room of each floor and then try to walk back and voila... broken... miker.... good point... i have thought about "duration" of weapons as well. its on my to do list... i have 3 bytes left for each base weapon stat...so one byte will be reserved for level cap. actually which level is needed to use the weapon... 2 bytes are left...and one is initially reserved for duration... but not activated yet. Goochman... i love the idea of "big boss" at the end of each floor and wenn killed stairs appear.... Guys... as i said each comment is welcome... even if its "its boring...i would love to see..." but be constructive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I've noticed that when you fight against monster it drops something before death, too. Don't know whether it's bug or feature, but it looks interesting. Well - when upgrading statistics, sometimes bottom of screen gets corrupted (name of armor/weapon). After visiting inventory it return to normal state. And also i've noticed the switching between life/mana(?) indicators and the rest of stats. Is it possible to remember its state after ugrading stats (it will help much in gameplay). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 miker? what do you mean with the life indicator? btw. the mana bar is dummy... it changes his value randomly... so no use yet... btw. what should i do with the mana bar when players chooses warrior??? i have no idea yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 (edited) I meant that if you are on screen with l/m-indicators and then obtain higher level of hero, then after uprading the hero, let it return to these indicators back. That's all. Another (maybe crazy) idea is to make hero go faster if there are no monsters in room (e.g. with FIRE held). Edited June 26, 2007 by miker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 (edited) Maybe for Warrior you show his Armor strength in blue bar? Maybe the bar is a different color depending on class? blue for Warrior means armor - green for wizard means mana, etc... As for level up - I think the screen is fine, I like the detail. Autoswitch was a pain so if you give an indicator and a key to enter 'level up' I think that would be fine - Maybe you dont even need to add a key - if the user hits 'Tab' to switch to the detail view and level up is available then they should add the stats - My $0.02 Edited June 26, 2007 by Goochman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 gooch... kudos... sounds good... will be done in next build. first i have to find the "monsters not dead" bug... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Heaven - well, but that monster-bug is very interesting. After pointing it you can make the monster drop more than one item (e.g. gold and weapon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 miker...yes... but problem if "its not a bug its a feature"... you gain 2x experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 (edited) monster bug found... it was not a bug...indeed a feature... i have set monster active too early which confused the other modules... screenshot is from build 13 which is not public yet... dont be confused that the playersprite is headless and has no weapon... both will be done via PMs. (possible of different animations for both possible... ) Edited June 26, 2007 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroah Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hi Heaven, Have you seen that at the beginning, the "dagger" is in the armor slot and when you equip it again through your inventory, it goes to the weapon slot and at the same time, the "leather armor" takes its place ? By the way, why your dagger is mis-spelled "daggerR" ? Is it the "R" of leatheR ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudografx Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I made another graphics theme, hope you'll like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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