41 replies to this topic

[Gunstar]

It doesn't get any better than this; Iron Soldier 2 on an RGB monitor, with a surround sound system and a pro-controller. I just wish you all could see what the RGB REALLY looks like in real life, the picture doesn't NEARLY do it justice!

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Edited by Gunstar, Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:06 AM.

[SINGLE TOOTH]

Cool. Nice setup. Make me wanna try an build an RGB cable tonight.

Does that game Need the Pro Controller? Did you change the LED.

Edited by SINGLE TOOTH, Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:34 PM.

[Gunstar]

SINGLE TOOTH, on Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:31 PM, said:

Cool. Nice setup. Make me wanna try an build an RGB cable tonight.

Does that game Need the Pro Controller? Did you change the LED.

it doesn't NEED, the pro-controller, but it's much better with it; you can change right&left hand and hip weapons with the extra buttons.

Yes, I changed the LED to a brighter orange one, it lights up the controller ports through the cracks, it cool looking. Pic below; you'll have to enlarge the pic to see what I mean, can't tell in the thumbnail. Even then, my camera sucks in low light, the effect is much better in real life, it makes it very convenient to plug in controllers in the dark.

yeah, I made my own RGB cable. It's amazing how much better the picture is with RGB, sharpness, better color, everything. I've noticed subtle colors that I never saw before even with s-video.

And if you've never heard IS2 (or other jaguar games for that matter) with a decent surround sound system, your missing out. It's so cool to hear the choppers or tanks sneaking up on you from behind, full 360 degrees! Though IS2 has the option to change from stereo to surround, there are other Jag games that are in full surround, they just aren't advertised as such.

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Edited by Gunstar, Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:02 PM.

[crash]

Okay, I'll have to brag here, since I am so extremely fortunate to be able to play Jaguar games on this system:

60 Inch Pioneer Plasma HDTV using Jaguar SVideo
Denon AVR-4306 A/V Receiver (w/5 channel stereo for non-surround)
Polk Audio Speakers
CS400i Center
RT55i Front
f/x500i Surround
PSW50 Subwoofer

Atari Jaguar CD
Jaguar Extreme Flight Joystick from Visual Dimensions 3D
Jaguar Rotary controller from Goatstore
Right Handed (custom) Ben Aein LAPCAT Pro Joystick controller.
ICD Catbox

I could never get used to the Jagpad, since it is designed to be controlled by the left thumb, and I'm right handed. I prefer controllers with the joystick (preferred) or pad on the right side. Therefore, I gave up on the idea of getting a Pro Controller. I'm working on an analog Battlesphere Joystick, and plan to add a free spinning rotary control to the Lapcat Pro.

I do have Iron Soldier 3 for the Playstation and Nuon, but I prefer the Jaguar versions since they allow direct selection of weapons rather than "next weapon, next weapon, next weapon" which often results in my Iron Solider's demise.

If only I could get RGB to the TV too!

Cheers!

[Punisher5.0]

Gunstar, on Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:46 PM, said:

And if you've never heard IS2 (or other jaguar games for that matter) with a decent surround sound system, your missing out. It's so cool to hear the choppers or tanks sneaking up on you from behind, full 360 degrees! Though IS2 has the option to change from stereo to surround, there are other Jag games that are in full surround, they just aren't advertised as such.

I totally agree. The Jaguar has got some awesome sound and it can't be appreciated without a good system. That's cool that the Jag can do surround sound. I figured it could only do 2 channel.

You can check out my Jag sound set up here. It sounds really good with BattleSphere and Tempest2000.

[Gunstar]

crash, on Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:18 AM, said:

Okay, I'll have to brag here, since I am so extremely fortunate to be able to play Jaguar games on this system:

60 Inch Pioneer Plasma HDTV using Jaguar SVideo
Denon AVR-4306 A/V Receiver (w/5 channel stereo for non-surround)
Polk Audio Speakers
CS400i Center
RT55i Front
f/x500i Surround
PSW50 Subwoofer

Atari Jaguar CD
Jaguar Extreme Flight Joystick from Visual Dimensions 3D
Jaguar Rotary controller from Goatstore
Right Handed (custom) Ben Aein LAPCAT Pro Joystick controller.
ICD Catbox

I could never get used to the Jagpad, since it is designed to be controlled by the left thumb, and I'm right handed. I prefer controllers with the joystick (preferred) or pad on the right side. Therefore, I gave up on the idea of getting a Pro Controller. I'm working on an analog Battlesphere Joystick, and plan to add a free spinning rotary control to the Lapcat Pro.

I do have Iron Soldier 3 for the Playstation and Nuon, but I prefer the Jaguar versions since they allow direct selection of weapons rather than "next weapon, next weapon, next weapon" which often results in my Iron Solider's demise.

If only I could get RGB to the TV too!

Cheers!

Yeah, you have a FANTASTIC set-up, but even on your plasma, it's still only S-video, and so it's not as good as RGB, though the size makes up for that, I often trade off between composite video on my 80" projection TV (it's old-school so it only has composite in), S-video on my 32" TV and my 13" RGB monitor, they are all good for obvious different reasons. But until you've played your Jaguar on RGB, you've never seen the sharpest, clearest and most colorful picture on your Jag. If only the Jaguar RGB could be converted to component, then you'd OWN.

And yes, my system also has the 5-channel stereo for non-surround games/music/movies. Basically like the old-school quadraphonic, but with the extra center channel.

Edited by Gunstar, Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:20 PM.

[Gunstar]

Punisher5.0, on Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:39 AM, said:

Gunstar, on Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:46 PM, said:

And if you've never heard IS2 (or other jaguar games for that matter) with a decent surround sound system, your missing out. It's so cool to hear the choppers or tanks sneaking up on you from behind, full 360 degrees! Though IS2 has the option to change from stereo to surround, there are other Jag games that are in full surround, they just aren't advertised as such.

I totally agree. The Jaguar has got some awesome sound and it can't be appreciated without a good system. That's cool that the Jag can do surround sound. I figured it could only do 2 channel.
You can check out my Jag sound set up here. It sounds really good with BattleSphere and Tempest2000.

Well, it is two channel surround, not full-blown 7.1 digital or whatever, but the games that have the surround are sent through the two-channels and decoded in the surround system to send the proper sounds to the rear speakers, etc. All the classic 32/64-bit systems are capable of 2-channel stereo surround, and even 5.1 with the DSP chip. it's not as good as modern systems with the digital surround out, but it's surround sound. It's the old-school 5.1 Dolby-surround decoding system that decodes the surround from the 2 channel left&right output, or clone which decodes the surround channels the same way, into 5.1 channel surround. You never heard of Q-sound for the Jaguar?


Don't you own IS2? If so, you've never noticed the surround sound option in the options menu? If you don't own it, shame on you! Get it quick! Most Jag games are just stereo, but Battlemorph and Hoverstrike CD (CD version only) are two examples that are also in surround. There are a few others, though I forget off hand, except NBA Jam, which has that special 3D stereo, which sounds like it's in surround sound on my surround sound system...oh, Skyhammer has it too, but only the music&ambient sounds are in surround, sound effects are stereo. But MOST, not all Jag games with stereo sound even better on a surround system, it's not true surround, but you can here the them through all speakers, sort of like quadraphonic stereo.

Edited by Gunstar, Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:42 AM.

[Gunstar]

Punisher5.0, on Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:39 AM, said:

Gunstar, on Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:46 PM, said:

And if you've never heard IS2 (or other jaguar games for that matter) with a decent surround sound system, your missing out. It's so cool to hear the choppers or tanks sneaking up on you from behind, full 360 degrees! Though IS2 has the option to change from stereo to surround, there are other Jag games that are in full surround, they just aren't advertised as such.

I totally agree. The Jaguar has got some awesome sound and it can't be appreciated without a good system. That's cool that the Jag can do surround sound. I figured it could only do 2 channel.

You can check out my Jag sound set up here. It sounds really good with BattleSphere and Tempest2000.

Oh, just checked out your system, it is cool. Yeah, not surround, but it is quadraphonic stereo from the looks of it, that's good too. I pump my sound through an old-school JVC system, and have two stereo speakers for the front, similair to yours set on channel 2 L&R, and then the channel 1 L&R are pumped into my home entertainment surround system where the 5.1 surround is decoded from the two channel coming from the Jaguar (or 3DO or DVD, LD, CD, whatever). But that's a seprate sound system to the one I have hooked up with my Jaguar and RGB monitor, the surround system with the RGB monitor is a PC multi-media surround system, not as powerful as my entertainment surround system, but it does the job. pic below of the BIG one...

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[SINGLE TOOTH]

What? I have a very hard time beliving the Jaguar can output surround sound. There is no way to encode it though the composite cables.

Is there any documentation to support that? I would like to be proved wrong, because it sounds awesome.

[Gunstar]

SINGLE TOOTH, on Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:01 AM, said:

What? I have a very hard time beliving the Jaguar can output surround sound. There is no way to encode it though the composite cables.

Is there any documentation to support that? I would like to be proved wrong, because it sounds awesome.

yes, there is documentation to support it, Q-sound is one way with the Jaguar, but I think Iron Soldier 2 uses their own system, not sure. Oh, and it's not "composite cables" only composite VIDEO is composite, meaning both the color and luminance are sent though one cable. S-video and Audio has 2 channel seperation, RGB has 3. And surround channels are an encoded signal that get's decoded in the surround sound unit/system/amp and then sent to the proper 3, 4, 5 and subwoofer channel speakers. And as I stated, it works that way with ALL the 32/64-bit systems and even the newer systems if your hooking it up via L&R RCA cables instead of digital audio out. It's just a matter of if the specific GAME supports it or not, and not all games support it, some are only mono sound, some stereo and some surround. Heck, even the SNES has a couple games with surround sound, like Jerrasic park for one example! What rock have you been under? And proof in the games themselves, like Iron Soldier 2. Though I don't know where the documentation is...but it's not about "encoding through composite cables," the encoding is done inside the jaguar, the signals are sent through the left and right audio cables, and if connected to a surround sound system it's decoded in the surround sound system. Just like you can get stereo or surround sound through one coaxial cable with cable TV or direct TV. Even air broadcasts can have stereo or surround sound through an antenna. it's all in the signals, NOT in how many "lines" are connected. Even the latest 7.1 digital surround is all in digital signal going through ONE line and then is "decoded" at the digital surround reciever (though I'm not sure on the digital specifics, all I know is you only connect one line, it may have multiple seperate wires going through that one line, I don't know, but I don't see why it would need to be).

Below is the options screen for Iron Soldier 2, notice at the bottom where it says "soundmode surround," this can also be changed to just "stereo."

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Edited by Gunstar, Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:30 PM.

[SINGLE TOOTH]

Must be pro-logic then.

Edited by SINGLE TOOTH, Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:31 PM.

[Gunstar]

SINGLE TOOTH, on Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:25 AM, said:

Must be pro-logic then.

Yeah, that's what I said, if you re-read above more carefully. I think Iron Soldier 2 is the only one with 5.1 surround though, but a few other Jaguar games have stereo surround, so you at least get a channel from the rear. But it's (Jaguar-DSP chip) capable of REAL 5.1 surround, you'd know it, as I do, if you HEARD it. With IS2, for example, I can tell by the sound EXACTLY where a helicopter is coming from, and even give you a "clock" direction, like it's coming from 4 o'clock. The Jaguar is capable of Q-sound surround too ( http://www.qsound.com/index.htm ), but I don't think that was ever used in a game, but ther IS a demo for the BJL that demonstates it ( http://www.dgemu.com...details-55.html ); it's better than 5.1. Actually, now that I think about it, I believe that the Jag's NBA Jam: T.E.'s 3D sound is done with Q-sound, it sounds almost like surround even on a stereo, but it really shines through on a surround sound system.
You just need to read up on how surround sound works, though I'm not an "expert" myself, but I know what I hear. There is STEREO surround(often refered to as "3.1" which is 2 front speakers and one rear or one rear "virtual channel" from two rear speakers, and the subwoofer, which isn't FULL surround, it just gives you sound from behind on one channel or "virtual" channel with two rear speakers. Then there is 5.1 surround, like the Jaguar is capable of, which gives sound signals to 5.1 channels through encoding and sent over the L&R outputs to the surround decoder's inputs for channel decoding to the speakers. Then there is the 7.1 digital surround which has the cleanest and clearest seperation. Just the fact that the Jaguar has a DSP chip (DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSOR) should be enough "proof" that the Jaguar is capable of true surround sound, just like the 3DO, Saturn, PSX, Dreamcast, N64, etc., etc. all have DSP chips. They do the surround encoding, and send the signals through the audio outs to the surround sound system for decoding to the speakers. In fact, that DSP is capable of full digital surround too, but I don't think the Jaguar has digital audio out on it's edge connector...I'll have to look into that, if it did, then a custom cable could even be made to send a true digital signal to a digital surround amplifier. Of course this would only work if the specific game took advantage of it anyway.

And pro-logic is TRUE surround, just not as good of seperation as other superior types like Q-sound or digital, only "stereo surround" is the not full surround, but you do get the rear channel, and stereo surround goes all the way back to the days of VHS, from left&right output, analog encoding right on the tape.

Of course the quality of the surround you get with 5.1 is dependant on the quality of the surround system you are using, a name-brand system will have much better channel seperation than a $30-40 Walmart surround system.

Edited by Gunstar, Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:12 AM.

[SINGLE TOOTH]

Thanks for the proof. I never screwed around with surround sound until about a year ago when I bought my Yamaha. I just always figured it would have to be a separate port with a digital signal like a coaxial or optical port. I must have been thinking about the Stereo surround. I dont think there is a digital out on the jag connector, just the normal left and right from what I saw. Ill have to find a Jag game with surround to check it out.

[spiffyone]

One day, when I find a deal on this game for around $50, I will get it.

It's one of the games (along with Zero 5) that show just how much a part of the "32/64-bit" gen Jaguar was a part of.

One of those games that you throw on to shut up people who have the wrong-headed idea that because Jag had a 68k processor in their that it was a 16-bitter.

I'd love to get Battlesphere Gold too...but I am not paying anywhere near $100 or even more (I've seen the damn game go for $500+ and more) for a video game.

[crash]

"it's still only S-video, and so it's not as good as RGB. But until you've played your Jaguar on RGB, you've never seen the sharpest, clearest and most colorful picture on your Jag. If only the Jaguar RGB could be converted to component, then you'd OWN."

It's true. I've put the Jaguar through an Atari ST monitor, and it is beautiful I even converted a Playstation to run through an ST monitor with RGB. If only I knew a way to convert RGB to Component or HDMI!

(shaking fists at the sky) "Khan!"

"And yes, my system also has the 5-channel stereo for non-surround games/music/movies. Basically like the old-school quadraphonic, but with the extra center channel."

The 5- channel stereo that I have now is great, since it isn't just trying to play Stereo through the surround decoder. My old amplifier did that, which resulted in almost all of the sound coming from the center speaker. Now, sounds that are common from right to left are played at center, right and left retain distinct sounds, and some other process is used to figure out what should go to the back speakers. Even stereo music sounds better now.

I can't wait to see what Iron Soldier 2 and Skyhammer sound like with surround enabled. I'm going to first set the amplifer to auto in case it can detect analong surround encoding such as Dolby Pro Logic.

Cheers!

[Gorf]

Punisher5.0, on Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:39 PM, said:

Gunstar, on Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:46 PM, said:

And if you've never heard IS2 (or other jaguar games for that matter) with a decent surround sound system, your missing out. It's so cool to hear the choppers or tanks sneaking up on you from behind, full 360 degrees! Though IS2 has the option to change from stereo to surround, there are other Jag games that are in full surround, they just aren't advertised as such.

I totally agree. The Jaguar has got some awesome sound and it can't be appreciated without a good system. That's cool that the Jag can do surround sound. I figured it could only do 2 channel.

You can check out my Jag sound set up here. It sounds really good with BattleSphere and Tempest2000.

The Jaguar can do just about any sound format because it uses a wide open DSP. What I mean by wide open
is it sound features and abilities are almost limitless and it is not hardwired for specifics like most consoles
before it and even some after it. It is only limited by the guy coding it and the proccessor cycles available.

You can do ....

MOD's
Samples
Synths
Midi
Qsound
Surround sound
mp3's

...and whatever other ones you want to think of......if only we can get other coders to convert
some of the free source ones out there. I would but my plate will be full for quite some years.

[Gorf]

crash, on Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:04 PM, said:

It's true. I've put the Jaguar through an Atari ST monitor, and it is beautiful I even converted a Playstation to run through an ST monitor with RGB. If only I knew a way to convert RGB to Component or HDMI!

Yes those old ST monitors rock! Particularly the Goldstar models.

[walter_J64bit]

What's all this talk about surround sound? I have my Jag hooked up to my 8-track!

[Gunstar]

walter_J64bit, on Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:48 PM, said:

What's all this talk about surround sound? I have my Jag hooked up to my 8-track!

I actually do have an 8-track player hooked up to my JVC system and surround sound amp, I listen to old Frank Sinatra 8-tracks in 5-channel (technically 7 channels, but 4 of them are the front left&right) stereo that way! Truth of it is, everything is going into my surround sound; 8-tack, turntable, cassette, DVD, Laserdisc, CED, VHS, games systems, etc. even if it's not surround, it improves it all over standard stereo...even system like the 2600 that I've done audio/video mods too I have a mono channel splitter and then it goes through my sound system and I have glorious mono sound pumping out through 7 speakers and a subwoofer.

[Gunstar]

crash, on Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:04 PM, said:

"
It's true. I've put the Jaguar through an Atari ST monitor, and it is beautiful I even converted a Playstation to run through an ST monitor with RGB. If only I knew a way to convert RGB to Component or HDMI!

That's cool, I wasn't aware that the playstation had RGB capability, I guess I have another RGB cable to make! I also have my an RGB cable for the Genesis/SegCD/32X, though I have that for my Commodre 1084s monitor, not the ST. I could do the Jag through it too, but I already made the Jag to SC1224 ST monitor cable before I got the 1084s, so I haven't bothered to make another cable for the Jag&1084s.
IIRC, I THINK I read once that the 3DO has internal RGB capability, but since in only had the composite&S-video standard jacks, instead of a custom cable output like the other systems, it would require an internal modification to pull off and I just haven't cared to bother yet, S-video is good enough for my 3DO right now, maybe someday...

EDIT: I just noticed you said "converted a playstation," so is that an internal mod, or is it just a matter of making a custom cable?

Edited by Gunstar, Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:10 PM.

[crash]

"I just noticed you said "converted a playstation," so is that an internal mod, or is it just a matter of making a custom cable?"

Greetings,

The original Playstation did have RGB output on its connector, although I'm not sure if this applied to US markets. I bought a SCART RGB adapter and used the parts along with a circuit to create the sync signal needed for the ST Monitor. It is in an external project box, so it is essentially a bulky cable. Here are the links that describe how to do it:

http://www.gamesx.co...d/caveatrgb.htm

http://atarilabs.com...rgbprimer.shtml

http://www.gamesx.co...nouts/psxav.htm

http://www.absolute-..._faqs/faq11.htm

As I recall, I built one of the circuits from what I could understand of the schematics, and it didn't work correctly until I clipped a wire that I must have attached accidentally.

Good Luck!

[SINGLE TOOTH]

Hey gunstar, i heard you say commodore 1084s monitor. Ive got a Commodore 1084 (no S ) and im not having success making a rgb cable. When I got a steady picture there was only blue. I keep finding conflicting pin outs that arnt working. Is the RGB connector in the back a DB9? (like an atari 2600 joystick plug)

If so, what pinouts did you use???

Im starting to get enraged. Maybe Ill work on N64 RGB for now.

Edited by SINGLE TOOTH, Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:57 PM.

[Gunstar]

SINGLE TOOTH, on Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:50 AM, said:

Hey gunstar, i heard you say commodore 1084s monitor. Thats what I got, and im not having success making a rgb cable. When I got a steady picture there was only blue. I have a commodore 1084. Is the RGB connector in the back a DB9?

I keep finding conflicting pinouts that arnt working.

What monitor WERE you trying to make a cable for? As for the 1084, it depends on the EXACT, model unfortunately, I think some 1084's have the DB9, others, like mine, have a 6-pin DIN style connector. It's the exact same monitor INTERNALLY as the Atari SC1435, but I don't know about which type of connector the Atari brand has. this site may help you out with whatever monitor you choose to use: http://www.pinouts.o....php?page=Video
From my experience, the pinouts on that site are the correct ones.

Oh, and the Jaguar is ANALOG RGB, so your 1084 has to be one of the ANALOG models or one with both digital and analog RGB, like mine, there's a switch on the back to choose either. It also has to be 15KHz sync refresh, any monitor with a larger refresh won't work, unless it's multi-sync with a switch to choose 15KHz.

Edited by Gunstar, Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:08 PM.

[SINGLE TOOTH]

what jaguar pinout are you using?
THe one on that site?

Apperantly I have a 1084D.. I though it said that on the front but its only labeled 1084D on the back. I see the pinout there.

Edited by SINGLE TOOTH, Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:09 PM.

[Gunstar]

SINGLE TOOTH, on Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:07 AM, said:

what jaguar pinout are you using?
THe one on that site?

I'm pretty sure the ones on that site are correct, but I actually used the diagram form Best Electronics catalog, posted below.
By the way, jsut to make sure you understood, My Jaguar I made the cable for the ST's SC1224 RGB monitor, I never made a Jaguar-to-1084 monitor, I made a Genesis-to-1084 cable. But the 1084 IS compatible with the Jaguar.
If the monitor you are using doesn't have a horizontal sync like the Jaguar, use the composite sync pin.

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Edited by Gunstar, Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:17 PM.