Using an 'Epia PX10000' motherboard inside a FB case... DONE!

[PacManPlus]

I'm starting to think that it might be a better idea to simply gut the FB1 and use its case for classic gaming related projects. I'm thinking of using one of mine as an enclosure for a MultiJoy-8 interface.

 

Another possibility is to get a VERY small-form-factor motherboard like the Epia PX 10000 and make a compact little emulation machine out of it:

 

(If this board doesn't fit, I'm sure there will be an even smaller one someday that will).

 

I just got my hands on one of these motherboards... and I have an 8Gb Compact Flash card (and an IDE adapter). My original idea was to put this in a FBII case, but now seeing it in front of me, it might even fit in the FB1 case! I'll either report back here on my findings or make a new thread in this forum... Stay tuned

 

Bob

Cool! It'll probably be a challenge to make it fit in the FB1 case without at least cutting down some of the support posts inside the case, but it should fit inside the FB2 case for sure. Either way, I can't wait to see what you come up with!

 

Also let us know what you think about the board's overall performance. I'm especially curious about applications like emulation and media playback.

 

 

I may have to return this board - I can't get it to 'see' any hard drives (I've tried three, including the Compact Flash which I know works.) I called Logic Supply (the place I got the board from) and they were very helpful. I need to try one more thing tonight (clear the CMOS) and if that doesn't work, they will issue me an RMA.

 

One thing I did find out: unfortunately, this will not work in a FB1 case. Although the board itself does fit, nothing else does after that (i.e. connector cables, CF hard drive, Power Supply - even though it's tiny, etc.). So it's looking like the FBII case is the direction I'm heading in. More updates to follow.

 

Bob

Edited April 4, 2008 by PacManPlus

[jaybird3rd]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I just realized that the PX10000 has an I/O daughterboard (containing the audio and extra USB ports) that unfortunately adds to the surface area needed by the board. Then, of course, there's the whole issue of pulling the various connectors to the outside of the FB1 case and finding a way to mount them without losing even more space inside.

 

I still think the FB2 case will work, especially if you get an external DC power supply and adapter.

[PacManPlus]

I actually don't have the Daughterboard, and don't need it I can pull the 'LINE OUT' left and right audio signals from the connector (I have the pinout) and use those. they gave me a cable (instead of the daughterboard) for the USB ports so all is well.

 

I can forgo the Serial Port, so all I am going to need to mount are the USB ports and the PS2 keyboard & mouse. I don't even have to really mount those, but I want them, saves the USB ports for other things like external storage... I also will be making holes for the VGA and Ethernet ports.

 

I don't even think I will mount the DVI connector; not sure yet. Depends on how real estate I have left after mounting the necessary ports.

 

I'll know more probably next week some time - once I get the new motherboard (I have a feeling I'm going to have to send this one back).

 

Bob

[PacManPlus]

UPDATE:

 

Got the new motherboard, and it works well! I will be loading Windows XP on it (trying to figure out how much 'XP Embedded' is, and how to purchase it, but having no luck).

 

Will post more...

 

Bob

[PacManPlus]

Well, unfortunately it looks like I'm going to have to abandon this idea.

 

The board, while it more than fits in the FBII case by width and length, does not fit in height. This is thanks to the *oversized* CMOS battery holder on the bottom side of the board and the CPU heat sink on top. The case doesn't even close with the Pico-ITX motherboard in.

 

This really sucks because I specifically bought this board for this project.

[walter_J64bit]

Well, unfortunately it looks like I'm going to have to abandon this idea.

 

The board, while it more than fits in the FBII case by width and length, does not fit in height. This is thanks to the *oversized* CMOS battery holder on the bottom side of the board and the CPU heat sink on top. The case doesn't even close with the Pico-ITX motherboard in.

 

This really sucks because I specifically bought this board for this project.

You might want to use an XEGS case it's very roomy.

Edited January 21, 2008 by walter_J64bit

[jaybird3rd]

Well, unfortunately it looks like I'm going to have to abandon this idea.

 

The board, while it more than fits in the FBII case by width and length, does not fit in height. This is thanks to the *oversized* CMOS battery holder on the bottom side of the board and the CPU heat sink on top. The case doesn't even close with the Pico-ITX motherboard in.

 

This really sucks because I specifically bought this board for this project.

Wow, sorry to hear this. Do you think there would be enough clearance if the CMOS battery wasn't there? If so, you might try desoldering the battery holder and wiring it so you can mount the battery elsewhere inside the case. That might free up the little bit of extra space that you need to properly close the case. Another option would be to find a low-profile heatsink that is smaller than the stock heatsink.

[nathanallan]

Something else you might want to try is expanding the bottom case, make the thing taller so to have more room. It could be made to look kinda like a pedastal, so it wouldn't look like so much of an add-on.

 

Wanted to throw in my two cents, seems you really wanted it to work.

 

Nathan

[PacManPlus]

Well, unfortunately it looks like I'm going to have to abandon this idea.

 

The board, while it more than fits in the FBII case by width and length, does not fit in height. This is thanks to the *oversized* CMOS battery holder on the bottom side of the board and the CPU heat sink on top. The case doesn't even close with the Pico-ITX motherboard in.

 

This really sucks because I specifically bought this board for this project.

Wow, sorry to hear this. Do you think there would be enough clearance if the CMOS battery wasn't there? If so, you might try desoldering the battery holder and wiring it so you can mount the battery elsewhere inside the case. That might free up the little bit of extra space that you need to properly close the case. Another option would be to find a low-profile heatsink that is smaller than the stock heatsink.

 

Hey:

 

Thanks!

I had actually thought of that, but everything on this board is surface-mounted, and the solder points are *extremely* tiny, and almost on top of each other. I don't want to take the chance of ruining the board.

 

...but

 

I may try a different version of Nathanallan's idea: Cut a round hole in the bottom of the case for the battery holder. The 'feet' on the bottom of the FBII case project out a few millimeters, so I don't think that battery holder will make contact with whatever surface the case is placed on...

 

Cool! Thanks for the ideas guys!

 

Bob

[PacManPlus]

First step:

 

Luckily, I had kept a case for the FBII from an earlier unsuccessful cart port hack. I actually thought ahead!

 

Here is the motherboard and power supply mounted in the case, with an 8Gb Sandsk card attached (I actually got Windows XP down to 1.8Gb after all Service packs and updates!) The last picture is the hold I had to cut in the bottom of the case to get the CMOS battery holder to fit.

 

Next Step, bringing the VGA & Ethernet connectors to the edge of the case with connector cables.

 

P.S., the Mini-Pac has been ordered!

[PacManPlus]

Ok - I give up.

 

For anyone reading this, do NOT buy the EPIA PX-10000G motherboard; it's the worst one I've had to ever deal with. I'm out at least $250 now.

 

This board not stopped recognizing the hard drive (like the first) and now it intermittently turns off, all by itself. It's not a heat issue, as it's not on long enough to get hot.

 

This has been like pulling teeth since I first got this board just to get it to work like a normal PC; so it's not worth even trying.

 

Bob

[mstulir]

Bob, I am looking at those photos you posted, and I am confused by the power situation. I have seen some photos of the various options for powering those boards, and they look nothing like what is in your picture. What are you using to power the board?

 

Is it possible that you have a power or grounding issue that is toasting the boards? Have you talked directly with Via?

[nathanallan]

Bob, I am looking at those photos you posted, and I am confused by the power situation. I have seen some photos of the various options for powering those boards, and they look nothing like what is in your picture. What are you using to power the board?

 

Is it possible that you have a power or grounding issue that is toasting the boards? Have you talked directly with Via?

This is a good point. You might have to set a metal shield on the bottom as a ground. There should be some board ground somewhere hanging off it. All my mobos do. I hope this is not the case, as it would add *more* depth to the machine.

 

Another thought on this is shielding. It might be getting some kind of interference. Some monitors deal with this by setting a grounding strap around it on the inside to help ground things out. This idea takes no more room to do and grounding straps like that are cheap. Most computers I know of have metal cases and that's enough shielding for them.

 

Pretty technical, huh? I bet you never thought it would come up! Hello World!

 

Nathan

[PacManPlus]

Thanks guys for the suggestions

 

BTW, Since that post, I've been able to get the board to recognize the Hard Drive again by clearing the BIOS *a few times*, but I still have the 'powering off' issue.

 

That power supply is one offered by Logic Supply as only for the PX-10000G (the board I have). I actually tried a regular power supply (they give you a cable for that as well), and the board doesn't even boot. (I know that power supply works; I use it for reparing other PCs). There are only two connections to the PX Power supply: one for the power connector and the other to the motherboard.

 

With regard to the sheilding, I've had many motherboards operating 'loose' (sitting on top of a desk, for example), and I've never had that issue come up. Not to say that I can't run into that eventually, but I've actually loaded Windows XP on this motherboard with it sitting on my desk (and you all know how long *that* takes with all service packs), so it *did* work... At first...

 

I guess my point is, it shouldn't be this hard just to get something working just like it's supposed to. In my almost 20 years of building/repairing/upgrading PC desktops and laptops, I've never had this much of an issue with a motherboard. It kind of soured me on this whole project. I did send an e-mail to VIA (albeit not a happy one)... I also sent one to Logic Supply (BTW, their service is excellent - when I had an issue with the first board they were very accomodating and tried their best to replace it as quickly as possible).

 

Thanks again everyone. I'll see what kind of answers I get.

 

 

*EDIT* - I actually do remember having another issue with an ECS motherboard some years back... Something to do with memory (just want to be accurate with my statement)

Edited January 23, 2008 by PacManPlus

[mstulir]

Bob, just for reference, let me show you what I was expecting to see for a power supply.

 

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-120-power-...amp;category=13

 

I had an opportunity to do a project for a client of mine last year involving some WRAP/Mini-ITX equipment and I used a few of the power supplies that I linked above. I had no problem with them at all. Those should be compatible with your Pico-ITX board. I'm not convinced the problem is the Via motherboard, per se. Have you hooked a meter up to that power supply?

 

I agree that it should not be that difficult, but I can't believe you have two bad boards in a row. I would really suggest picking up the phone and contacting Via support. I dealt with them during that project, and my experience was pretty good.

[PacManPlus]

Thanks Mike - I was actually considering one of those power supplys before I saw the one I curently have. I will try a third (standard) power supply on this board to see if it boots and stays booted.

 

I'm also a little apprehensive about this 'Hard Drive not being detected' issue. Maybe a BIOS Upgrade will help (if there is one)... According to their website I already have the latest one. I guess I'll know once I talk to VIA. I've cooled down now; it was just very frustrating after spending hours (and $$$$) on this project to have this happen.

 

It's funny - I was wishing somehow there could be a mold made that looks like the FBII case to natively house the Pico-ITX board; or one that looks identical to the 2600 case that natively can mount a Mini-itx board; complete with half-height DVD drive, 2.5 Inch Hard Drive, Power Supply, and optional I-Pac. It would all fit (I spent quite a few hours figuring that out); just the back would have to be slightly expanded. I think people would buy that case for an 'Emulation-type' gaming system; I know I would After seeing the costs of creating a plastic mold in some other threads (about cartridge cases), I don't think I would be able to persue this avenue any farther.

 

Thanks again, and I'll let you know what happens.

Bob

[mstulir]

Thanks Mike - I was actually considering one of those power supplys before I saw the one I curently have. I will try a third (standard) power supply on this board to see if it boots and stays booted.

 

I'm also a little apprehensive about this 'Hard Drive not being detected' issue. Maybe a BIOS Upgrade will help (if there is one)... According to their website I already have the latest one. I guess I'll know once I talk to VIA. I've cooled down now; it was just very frustrating after spending hours (and $$$$) on this project to have this happen.

 

It's funny - I was wishing somehow there could be a mold made that looks like the FBII case to natively house the Pico-ITX board; or one that looks identical to the 2600 case that natively can mount a Mini-itx board; complete with half-height DVD drive, 2.5 Inch Hard Drive, Power Supply, and optional I-Pac. It would all fit (I spent quite a few hours figuring that out); just the back would have to be slightly expanded. I think people would buy that case for an 'Emulation-type' gaming system; I know I would After seeing the costs of creating a plastic mold in some other threads (about cartridge cases), I don't think I would be able to persue this avenue any farther.

 

Thanks again, and I'll let you know what happens.

Bob

 

I have thought of doing a similar project to what you are doing -- Mini/Nano/Pico ITX motherboard, laptop style DVD, hard drive, game controller interfaces, etc. Having become intimately familiar with the Flashback/Flashback II cases, I came to the conclusion that it would be best (for me) to to it in a real 2600 case. Thankfully, I have a few I grabbed from Cassidy Nolen the last time I saw him. Those cases are waiting patiently for me to find the time to make it all happen.

 

As for the FB/FB2 cases, I have about a dozen of those laying around. What I thought would be in interesting project for those would be to integrate some kind of FLASH media reader, or a USB hard drive for PC backup purposes, or perhaps even a USB hub. It would be relatively simple to do within the confines of the case, and it would certainly look nice on a desk next to a PC.

 

I had the name all picked out for the USB hard drive -- The Flashbackup. Please note that this message serves as the Copyright/Trademark notice for this idea, and I will sue the pants off of anyone that steals it.

[PacManPlus]

The Flashbackup © - LOL that's cute

 

Believe it or not, I just spoke to Logic Supply (first) and they told me they have heard of the 'Powering Off' issue and are going to send me another board. After I send mine back of course. Let's hope the third time's the charm.

 

Mike, would you be willing to sell me an FBII case or two in case something happens to this one? I really don't want to look for another FBII only to destroy the guts - you guys have worked too hard for that. The one I used here was the result of a Cart Port mod gone wrong. :-/

 

Thanks,

Bob

[mstulir]

The Flashbackup © - LOL that's cute

 

Believe it or not, I just spoke to Logic Supply (first) and they told me they have heard of the 'Powering Off' issue and are going to send me another board. After I send mine back of course. Let's hope the third time's the charm.

 

Mike, would you be willing to sell me an FBII case or two in case something happens to this one? I really don't want to look for another FBII only to destroy the guts - you guys have worked too hard for that. The one I used here was the result of a Cart Port mod gone wrong. :-/

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

PM me.

[PacManPlus]

Ok, So after the Plutos, Sirius, and Rampart stuff, I finally went and finished my 'Windows XP Flashback' unit.

 

Let me tell you; I would *NOT* want to do this again; it was a major PITA.

 

See the pics - I put a small fan in the back where the power connector used to be, a small led light on the front panel.

In the first few pics, you can see where I put the components:

 

1) Bottom right corner, the EPIA-10000 motherboard.

2) Bottom left corner, the miniPac for the joystick and console inputs.

3) Top right, power supply

4) Top left, the CompactFlash->IDE converter, with an 8Gb CF card in it. I cut a hole in the back so I can take the card out without opening the thing any more.

5) Top left (above) a USB board from an old computer. I couldn't use the one VIA gave me; it was way too big.

 

You can't see it from the pics, but I also cut some holes inthe top part of the case above the CPU fan for ventilation.

Also, I forgot to take a pic of this, but I had to cut a hold in the bottom of the case for the CMOS battery. It was too deep.

 

 

In the back you can see I cut holes for Ethernet, VGA, USB, Sound, and Power.

[nathanallan]

That is a sweet package!! You got one for the books, for sure! So you went through three motherboards before you found a workable one? Those three manufacturers? Are you glad you stuck with it? Huge bragging rights, for real.

 

Nathan

[PacManPlus]

Thanks Nathan Yes, this is the third motherboard, although the last time I sent it back it was only an issue with the heat sink. I am glad I stuck with it, but it's not something I would want to do again.

I would love to design a PC case around a 2600 (specifically for gaming) I figured out what small changes would have to be made for the case in order to fit a Mini-ITX board, MiniPac, Small Power Supply, Laptop Hard Drive, and connectors. I wish I knew someone in the plastic molding business...

 

Bob

[nathanallan]

I wish I knew a hobbyist that worked with plastic molding. I looked into it, it's an expensive hobby to get into. I have a few ideas that need plastic. There's a way to make small parts from radiator repair goo, but that's for small parts that can be copied from originals, plus it dries really fast and is kinda hard to work with. Better for toys and well, radiators.

 

Nathan

[Wickeycolumbus]

wow, that is pretty sweet

[rembot]

I actually tried a regular power supply (they give you a cable for that as well), and the board doesn't even boot. (I know that power supply works; I use it for reparing other PCs).

 

First of all, awesome work, it looks great

 

In regards to the power supply, did you ever get a regular ATX PSU working? Im having a similar problem, i know my power supply's work, but the board wont boot.

 

 

Cheers

Sam.