[n8littlefield]

I buy the majority of my games from a Maine/NH chain of stores (Bullmoose) because they price their new games at atleast a few bucks below retail and their tradein values are generally better.

With that said, I don't see anything wrong with Gamestop - you just have to be a smart consumer. For me:

Don't trade in games unless it's a really good special deal (like a 30% bonus or a trade 2 games get an extra $10).
Don't buy used unless it's a really old title and has dropped significantly or until a buy 2 get 1 sale.
Preorder only on small titles because bigger titles will have better bonuses at Toys r Us or Circuit City (like gift cards)

Just like anything else, the educated consumer can come out ahead if they play the game well.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

Here is my take on the whole situation. If you don't like what they are doing, don't support them. Don't buy their used games and don't trade them yours. I have had lots of games that I don't play anymore and instead of trading them in, I have sold them on here or other web sites, or traded them with other collectors/game players for games that I did want. Some people have said that the only game stores near them are part of the GameStop empire and they have nowhere else to shop. My reply is this: If you can post here, then you can buy/sell/trade games here.

As for my local GameStop, I was in there last night and someone brought in some games to sell. They had 3 DS games that they had purchased used and were selling back. They got $28 for the three of them. The only title that I remember was Children Of Mana. I was surprised that they got that much for taking cash. I was there to get a couple games and use up the gift cards that I got for Christmas, and guess what? Nobody asked me if I wanted to pre-order anything. Since I was buying a used game, they did ask me if I wanted to buy their discount card thing. I told them, 'No, thank you' and they didn't say any more about it. I guess that some of the stores are improving in the customer relations department, but their prices still suck.

JY

[HammR25]

Mendon, on Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:45 AM, said:

Interesting editorial from Next Gen magazine on GameStop can be found HERE

Parasitic? Guess that's a pretty accurate description.




Mendon

About all I got from that article was:

WAH WAH WAH

Why doesn't he also attack Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, eBay.....etc. They're doing the same thing. New game prices would go up if there were no used games to buy because it would limit supply while demand would not drop off as much as the supply went down.

[n8littlefield]

If the industry truly wanted to kill used game sales they would drop the price of new release titles to $30 and $40 instead of $50 and $60. At $30 instead of $50, I would pick up a lot more Wii games at launch without even thinking about it, and it would drastically reduce the benefits of waiting for the price drops.

I pick up a ton of games used for $15-20 - if those same games had launched for $30, chances are I would already have owned them.

This post has been edited by n8littlefield: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:43 PM

[MegaManFan]

SINGLE TOOTH, on Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:19 PM, said:

Personally, I cannot under stand how someone can go into a Lamestop, look at the same game both new and used, and buy the used game.
The used game is less than 5 dollars cheaper than the brand new. For that price, I would rather buy the brand new game.

I got reamed by a Lamestop employee here in Omaha when I tried to explain precisely that thing to him. I inquired about a Wii game, he said they only had it used, I said I'd pass because I wanted it new. "It's perfectly good!" Yeah but the new game only costs $5 more. "You don't want to save $5, that's crazy!" No dude, it's crazy you think I WOULDN'T pay $5 more to get it brand new. I promptly left, went to Best Buy, and happily paid $5 more to have a game I knew had never been played before or scratched up by anybody else. Fuck them.

[ninjarabbit]

n8littlefield, on Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:43 PM, said:

If the industry truly wanted to kill used game sales they would drop the price of new release titles to $30 and $40 instead of $50 and $60. At $30 instead of $50, I would pick up a lot more Wii games at launch without even thinking about it, and it would drastically reduce the benefits of waiting for the price drops.

I pick up a ton of games used for $15-20 - if those same games had launched for $30, chances are I would already have owned them.

Agree with this 100%

The used video game industry exists because most new games are so damn expensive and I've probably at least bought two-thirds of my current gen collection used and the only time I buy new games is becouse of a price drop or a sale. I only have so much money I can spend on video games and my money goes further by buying used or waiting for a sale or price drop. Why should I pay $50-60 for a game when I know I can get it signifcantly cheaper in the future. Besides once I open a new game and play it it's going to be considered "used" anyways.

[shadow460]

I buy used, and I don't buy much from GameStop. I buy from Game X Change, which has about half a dozen stores owned by a local fellow. It kinda makes it more personal when the store's owner is willing to chat with the customers for a few minutes. I don't think I'll never see GameStop's owner/president/whatever, let alone talk to him.

I'd walk away, too, if a salesperson who doesn't even know me started berating me for buying new or called me crazy. What is it that Q*Bert says? I dunno how to say it, but I'd sure try to in that situation.

[Mendon]

In todays market, there really isn't any reason to buy a recently released game used at EB/GS and save only $5 when so many stores are frequently running sales on new games at $10, $20, $30 or more off of MSRP.

For example:

...all this week you could buy Assassin's Creed for $38 new at Target; why pay $54 used at GS?

...Amazon has had big sales recently on Bioshock ($39 new... $54 used at GS), Halo3 Legendary ($49 new... $69 new at GS), Mass Effect ($44 new... $54 used at GS), Castlevania PSP ($19 new... $24 used at GS), Stranglehold for both 360 & PS3 ($39 new... $54 used at GS). And there have been many other recently released games on sale with similar pricing. And most come with FREE shipping.

...Circuit City recently had Resistance for the PS3 new for $38; why pay $54 used at GS?

Keep an eye on the Sunday ad's, check out Amazon and sign up for game sale Email notices, and check out CAG once a week. Hardly a week goes by without at least one store (or Amazon) having at least one major title a week on sale for much cheaper new than buying used at GS.



Mendon

This post has been edited by Mendon: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:10 PM

[Ryanw]

I don't really like Gamestop because they try to shove their promotional bs down the customer's throat, going as far as to getting fellow employees who are involved with other customers to try to get you to be part of their clubs or whatever, so I don't go there anymore. Same goes for blockbuster's, but I don't have much of a choice if I want to rent games in my area.

[atarian63]

wccw mark, on Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:51 AM, said:

yes,gamestop/gamecrazy chains of stores are pretty much killing off the mom and pop/little guys of thie video game retail business,the retail side of video gaming,kinda like how walmart/target are killing off(pretty much has)killed off the dime store/varity stores i have fond memories of as a kid.these chain stores kill the unique stores of old.plus i hate the nazi type stance of trying to force the consumer into preording product,the overhype and bullshit most of these stores and employees provide and create.every new game is the next big thing,get that preorder,play your new game for a week,its old/out of style now,trade it in right away for the next big thing,its how they make the money,pretty much whoring out the art of gaming.every customer is just a preorder/mvp/mag subscription,game guard ratio/sales number,not a fellow person who enjoys games.

I really don't understand why that is. The mom and pop stores give you a much beter trade in value and sell used games for less and carry most if not all classics. My best friend here in columbus ohio has Video games express a 30 year video game store and they carry O2 2600, most everything as they can get it. A new game might be say $50 that same game used and current say within 1 month of release would be $29 instead of $45 at game slop.. I just dont get it. I walk in those chain places intent on maybe buying something and I ALWAYS walk out with nothing due to the rip off prices.

[redglass77]

We have Gamestops in Milwaukee and all over Wisconsin, I live in Oshkosh now to attend University, now theres one Gamestop here which I have yet to peruse however I was in Appleton last week Friday out for dinner and a night of shopping with my gf when for whatever reason I was compelled to go to the Game Stop next to the Chillies we ate it, I can't complain about the ppl working there, they seemed nice, just doing their job, but I shook my head as yet I walked into a another Gamestop that just left me feeling VideoGame depressed.....has anyone else noticed this?

1ST I can handle rummage sales, thrift shops, flee markets all of which have funky smells but 9 times out of 10 you'll be dealing with some really nice ppl. HAHA I remember waaayyy back when it was OK for smoking allowed at some indoor flea markets and if u bought something you went home with a Nintendo that reaked of Nicotine and Sega that wiffed of Sanka as it sat next to the dealers coffee pot, yet you were OK with this because those ppl would talk your freaking ear off and always had great stories it was simply put ...ambiance, and you took it home with you, you weren't just getting an overpriced game in a store that was about as uplifting as an Office Supply Store in ruins you had a little experience, an adventure of sorts, your family sat around ate dinner and laughed about what little funky items they scored and how cheap and by the time you got to play your game it was the Cherry on top, and man it was all worth it.

To this day I continually go into a Gamestop knowing damn well what the outcome is gonna be, It's not often I go and I try to avoid going to same one twice, maybe it's that I like video games or my forgiving nature, but I always leave with the same "I need to walk out of here so I can breath fresh air" feeling.

If I buy a game new I'll go to Target where at least the environment isn't a buzz kill and there's other things to distract my attention use full things needed for living, lol.
Otherwise Amazon I'm fine with and ebay is always an option, I also like for used games going to a place we have in Milwaukee called Half Price Books VERY GOOD PPL AND GREAT PRICES, they let u check the condition of their items cds dvds games books etc and If u see something alarming point it out and they wont sell it making sure someone else doesn't fall victim, granted it ment schlepping from the Eastside to the Southwest side but was damn worth it.

[shadow460]

I actually purchased a few things from GameStop. They were helpful in locating a S&L PSP, but not pushy. I didn't buy the PSP, but I did wind up buying some movies and a game at that store a couple of weeks later. I got wipEout pulsE there on the 18th or so. It was not on display yet, and it didn't have any stickers at all on the shrinkwrap.

I promptly ripped it open dumped the UMD to my memory stick.

[Xot]

ninjarabbit, on Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:29 AM, said:

n8littlefield, on Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:43 PM, said:

If the industry truly wanted to kill used game sales they would drop the price of new release titles to $30 and $40 instead of $50 and $60. At $30 instead of $50, I would pick up a lot more Wii games at launch without even thinking about it, and it would drastically reduce the benefits of waiting for the price drops.

I pick up a ton of games used for $15-20 - if those same games had launched for $30, chances are I would already have owned them.

Agree with this 100%

The used video game industry exists because most new games are so damn expensive and I've probably at least bought two-thirds of my current gen collection used and the only time I buy new games is becouse of a price drop or a sale. I only have so much money I can spend on video games and my money goes further by buying used or waiting for a sale or price drop. Why should I pay $50-60 for a game when I know I can get it signifcantly cheaper in the future. Besides once I open a new game and play it it's going to be considered "used" anyways.

Well, this is a catch-22. Before you could buy used games side by side, the ROI of a new game was greater. Look at it this way - if you sold a million copies in 1980, you pretty much sold a million copies at full retail. Now a days, that same game with a million buyers may only see 60-70% of those sales be full retail. Remember that a used sale nets NOTHING for anyone BUT the retailer (which is why they push used sales so hard. Profit on a used game is in the 300-400% range, profit on a new game is in the 10% range).

So, you can't sell as many new games at full retail, and you have to jack the price up to cover costs, which in turn makes the used market more attractive.

[HammR25]

I think the used market would still be attractive to consumers even if they sold new games for $10 a piece. Lots of people would rather pay $5 than $10.

[hex65000]

redglass77, on Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:30 PM, said:

[. . .]
but I shook my head as yet I walked into a another Gamestop that just left me feeling VideoGame depressed.....has anyone else noticed this?
[. . .]
To this day I continually go into a Gamestop knowing damn well what the outcome is gonna be, It's not often I go and I try to avoid going to same one twice, maybe it's that I like video games or my forgiving nature, but I always leave with the same "I need to walk out of here so I can breath fresh air" feeling.

Yes! I had that experience today. I went to a GameRob that has open up on the University Campus and of course got asked if I wanted to trade anything in, which I always respond with , "No, I never trade things in here." It tends to make them back off and a sick part in my mind hopes that someone else trading up will change their mind. (yeah right)

So I scanned the wasteland of original Xbox, Gamecube and PS2 titles and just saw nothing I wanted. I did see some SNK/Playmore titles of interest, but of course New = "Trust us, it's only been opened." and all the Wii titles of interest were more than I'm willing to pay. It may be a long while till I expand my Wii collection beyond the four games I have.

After walking around for about 10-15 minutes, I just left -- depressed.

I also realized that they serve a secondary purpose: to push the latest 'awesome game du-jour'. This may in the short run be good for the industry. The long run may be different in that I think they do a lot of putting makeup on pigs. Game Informer is darn near all the proof you need there. Of course that and trying to get the least common denominator to swallow whatever line they are feeding that day as dictated by their corporate masters.

I haven't found too much that's very cool lately by running around. I think the last good old(er)-school find was a Playstation pinball game. Beyond that, it all seems to be drying up or everything is in that pit called EPay.

Hex.
[ Is wondering if he should be glad that fate is helping him save money by not finding much of anything to purchase... ]

[remowilliams]

I hadn't realized another Gamestop sprouted up near me (there are now four within about 5 miles). I found it while accidentally looking for something else. I was a bit heartened to see that it was a large retail location, which is a nice break from their stores the size of my bathroom.

I went in and found a massive SEA of used video games and movies as far as the eye could see in the spacious store. I finally found the single shelf of PC games they had, and they didn't have the one game I was looking for. They had an older 360 game I wanted to pick up, in their curious 'new' but somehow opened with the contents stuffed somewhere else condition. I told the sales guy they could keep it.

They are looking like the new Funcoland, without the Fun part of it.

[shadow460]

lol@ remowilliams...you must have a big bathroom! That, or they put Miracle-Gro in the Gamestop stores around here. Some of our GameStops are literally a block apart.
Your post reminds me of the diminutive Babbage's in Crossroads mall back in the day. I think there was barely enough room for a Pocket Game boy or two in there, and that was it!

[Jetboot Jack]

I don't know much about Gamestop, but selling second hand games IS bad for the games industry...

A retailer makes around 30% to 35% PROFIT on a new game sold, money from the sale of that new game pays the developer, the publisher (the cost of making the game, it's manual, it's box and it's marketing), it pays the distributor (the guy who ships it to the retailer) etc etc...

So everyone gets a share - seems fair given the $10 to $20 Million it costs to make a game (then add on the advertising costs, etc etc) - sorry to say games ain't cheap to make!

Now a second hand game - ALL the money goes to the retailer, nothing to anyone else - so they WANT everyone to buy second hand, and that way way they sell the same copy of the same game several times taking their profit from 30% to several hundred %...

Now if I plan to sell 1000 copies of my new game I factor that into my development costs based on my royalty/advance (or ROI if I am a publisher) - and see that the whole plan is feasible so I make my game. And then only sell 600 copies, but 1000 people play it (cos people have traded it and bought it second hand) - suddenly my costs are not supported and I cannot afford to make another game - bummer....

Now that may not dent some of the big boys too much (but it does affect all game developers and publishers) - but as someone who makes games it really pisses me off to find that I'm being short changed by retailers...

sTeVE

This post has been edited by Jetboot Jack: Sat Mar 1, 2008 2:07 AM

[MCHufnagel]

Jetboot Jack, on Sat Mar 1, 2008 3:06 AM, said:

I don't know much about Gamestop, but selling second hand games IS bad for the games industry...

A retailer makes around 30% to 35% PROFIT on a new game sold, money from the sale of that new game pays the developer, the publisher (the cost of making the game, it's manual, it's box and it's marketing), it pays the distributor (the guy who ships it to the retailer) etc etc...

So everyone gets a share - seems fair given the $10 to $20 Million it costs to make a game (then add on the advertising costs, etc etc) - sorry to say games ain't cheap to make!

Now a second hand game - ALL the money goes to the retailer, nothing to anyone else - so they WANT everyone to buy second hand, and that way way they sell the same copy of the same game several times taking their profit from 30% to several hundred %...

Now if I plan to sell 1000 copies of my new game I factor that into my development costs based on my royalty/advance (or ROI if I am a publisher) - and see that the whole plan is feasible so I make my game. And then only sell 600 copies, but 1000 people play it (cos people have traded it and bought it second hand) - suddenly my costs are not supported and I cannot afford to make another game - bummer....

Now that may not dent some of the big boys too much (but it does affect all game developers and publishers) - but as someone who makes games it really pisses me off to find that I'm being short changed by retailers...

sTeVE

I live in the Detroit area and I totally agree with you. I'm sure GM and Ford would love to get rid of the used car market and have all of the sales for themselves! As a matter of fact let's go all the way and ban the sale of those pesky foreign cars. Low priced goods are bad for the economy!

Now that I got that out of the way, why do software developers feel that they should be immune from the laws of economics? If people aren't pirating your work, you shouldn't care who the title holder is. Don't blame used game sales for failing to meet sales goals.

[Jetboot Jack]

MCHufnagel - cars and games - I can see the comparison - a $25K loan for a Honda or $49.99 for game...

Yeah I buy 10 or 20 cars a year, oh no I don't I buy a new car every 5 years, and someone else buys my old car - the number of new car buyers is pretty much increasing globally year on year...

I'm not expecting a kick back each time the game is re-sold, but I do expect that the market RESPECTS my effort and that retailers try and sell the games when new not encouraging users into second hand games as soon as possible, long before the shelf life is over.

Look at the relatively limited markets for USED DVD or MUSIC CD's - does Virgin or HMV or Best Buy rack up used media alongside the new, and suggest you buy used as you browse, no I thought not...

sTeVE

This post has been edited by Jetboot Jack: Sat Mar 1, 2008 12:02 PM

[SRGilbert]

Jetboot Jack, on Sat Mar 1, 2008 12:17 PM, said:

I'm not expecting a kick back each time the game is re-sold, but I do expect that the market RESPECTS my effort and that retailers try and sell the games when new not encouraging users into second hand games as soon as possible, long before the shelf life is over.
sTeVE

But isn't the consumer deciding on when the "shelf life is over" by deciding to sell a game they are either tired of, or never liked in the first place? Face it, buying new games is a real crapshoot and always has been. At least with CD's or movies, they aren't anywhere near the price of a new console game, so your loss is minimal if you don't like it. Truth is, I'm a cheap gamer and usually buy 2-3 generations behind. I just got both a N64 and a Dreamcast last year and really love them. I have bought a ton of used (and obviously out of print) games for less than $2 each, and even then some of them are pretty bad. I can't imaging spending $40-50 on some of these turkeys brand new.

[Reaperman]

down here where I'm at, the alternatives to game stop is far inferior. Granted I've never been able to find anything I wanted at a gamestop/eb/babbages, but our gametrader chain is even worse. Their prices are at least 50% too high, their products all appear to have gone through a warzone, employees are rude, and heck, they charge to clean their own discs.

I miss the video game xchange chain from back when I lived in madison, wi... there's lot of midwesterners here--take a road trip.

of course I suspect game companies would rather do away with used game sales all around. Sega was being pretty aggressive with their used online titles during the dreamcast era. Back when Dreamcasts were $49 new, I had 3 and I always had to switch back to the noisy one to play online.

This post has been edited by Reaperman: Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:34 PM

[Gabriel]

Since this thread is already here, I'm going to use it as a place for one of my typical anti-brick and mortar store rants.

Today I found myself checking on the online price of Eternal Sonata and Bladestorm: The Hundred Years War. While Bladestorm was still $60, Eternal Sonata had been marked down to $40. So, I ordered it. The shipping is free and no sales tax applies.

While doing so, several recommendations came up. While browsing them I discovered several games which I might otherwise have forgotten about or missed entirely. I was recommended World Heroes Collection, which is one of a tiny few 2D fighters I have a soft spot for. I was also recommended Drone Tactics and Rondo of Swords, two games for the DS which actually look interesting which I had not heard anything about whatsoever. I was also recommended Stargate: The Ark of Truth, which is good because I had forgotten about the Stargate direct to DVD movies. Most importantly, I was recommended R-Type Command, which I didn't even know was getting a North American release.

So, a few clicks later, I have a current order and two no money down pre-orders headed to my mailbox. Not only that, but I have several more games in my customized wishlist.

Had I gone to Gamestop, Eternal Sonata would have been $40, but sales tax would have hit me. And most likely the game would be a stripped copy. In other words it would have been a higher price for less.

The recommendations would have only focused on whatever their current major promotion is. From their website, I'm guessing the clerk would have tried to push a Super Smash Bros pre-order on me. In other words, I would only receive recommendations for games I would have absolutely no interest in whatsoever.

So, I can drag my currently slightly sick self (I'm coming down with a cold it seems) to Gamestop, and have a frustrating experience there and pay more for abyssmal customer service, irritating suggestive selling techniques, and mangled games. Or, I can sit here in my pajama bottoms wrapped in a cozy blanket, get extremely good suggestions for other stuff I may like, and get my games delivered directly to me.

[MCHufnagel]

Jetboot Jack, on Sat Mar 1, 2008 12:17 PM, said:

MCHufnagel - cars and games - I can see the comparison - a $25K loan for a Honda or $49.99 for game...

Yeah I buy 10 or 20 cars a year, oh no I don't I buy a new car every 5 years, and someone else buys my old car - the number of new car buyers is pretty much increasing globally year on year...

I'm not expecting a kick back each time the game is re-sold, but I do expect that the market RESPECTS my effort and that retailers try and sell the games when new not encouraging users into second hand games as soon as possible, long before the shelf life is over.

Look at the relatively limited markets for USED DVD or MUSIC CD's - does Virgin or HMV or Best Buy rack up used media alongside the new, and suggest you buy used as you browse, no I thought not...

sTeVE

It is a valid comparison, if you really think about economics in the big picture. People can chose to buy new cars and games or used cars and games. And all manufacturers would like people to buy new items instead of used ones. These types of choices have been available since commerce began centuries ago. People aren't forced to sell their used products though. People trade in used products to help finance their new product purchases. I'm willing to bet that if people weren't allowed to sell used games, new game sales would be smaller. If the industry doesn't want 2 - 3 week old games being sold as used, they should make more games that encourage people to keep them longer. Sure the publisher's could make deals that force places like Gamestop from selling a game until it's been out a certain amount of time. But that won't stop people from selling those items themselves on ebay, craigslist, etc. The Steam model isn't foolproof either. I know people who make a separate account for each game they buy in case they want to sell a game, but keep their others.

As far as DVD's and CD's. Well I can tell you don't get out much. Every store that rents DVD's also sells new and used copies of those DVD's. That's both national chains and "mom and pop" stores. As far as used CD's, try to find a "mom & pop" music store that sells new CD's and doesn't sell used CD's.

[BassGuitari]

Reaperman, on Sun Mar 2, 2008 9:32 AM, said:

I miss the video game xchange chain from back when I lived in madison, wi... there's lot of midwesterners here--take a road trip.

Those are cool stores. I've had some really good finds at the place on Mineral Point, and the two women who usually worked there are really cool. I've spent a lot of money there over the years. They had a whole box of TI-99 cartridges for next to nothing, sitting there for years... I wish I'd taken them, because I kinda want to get a TI-99/4a now.

The one on Lien Road used to have a really good selection (they even used to have C64 and Atari 8-bit cartridges), but one of the guys who works there is a jackass. Another annoying thing is there's all kinds of cool stuff behind the counter (I spotted an Atari Super Pong Pro-Am 10 once), but they won't sell it to you. And the shafting I saw some kid take on trade-in value for some Xbox games is at least as bad as anything GameStop pulls...we're talking pennies on the dollar. Ever since this clown (the aforementioned jackass) basically said I was an idiot, in so many words, when I thought $1.25 apiece or whatever was too much for common Atari manuals, I never went back. I don't need that shit. Kind of a shame, it was a really cool store for the most part. But their retro selection had dwindled significantly as of the last time I was there about a year ago, so screw it. And anyway, at this point in my collecting game, they don't have anything I need that I couldn't get for a better price elsewhere.

I remember when Game Xchange had only one location, on Johnson Street, just off of State. THAT place kicked ass. This was back when Chase The Chuckwagon still brought in $300+. They actually had it once, come to think of it...for $300. Those were the days....

I wish a Game Xchange-type store would open in Milwaukee. You'd think we'd have at least one, given the size of the city, but to the best of my knowledge, there isn't.