185 replies to this topic

[Turnspike]

even www.archive.org can't get to that link.

[TheRedEye]

finalize said:

I work with flexured as engineer who help set him up with the graphics workstation which took the pictures.  please do not use foul language in these posts there is little need to be uncivil.  he will not be posting here but has asked me to answer questions about the graphics used and point out falsities in your reasoning at  

we develop graphics card and are not without the tools to properly capture simple video frequency

you should know about our actual ip's are masqueraded by the firewall (if you know what that means) and so there are thousands of others

thank you and good night

Dude, shut the fuck up. Ass shit bastard blowjob. These are very obviously fake, just stop trying. You were sloppy and you got caught.

Now go ahead and say something like "I don't appreciate your attitude, I'm keeping this proto and you won't EVER SEE IT!" Someone might even believe you!

[Albert]

finalize said:

I work with flexured as engineer who help set him up with the graphics workstation which took the pictures.  please do not use foul language in these posts there is little need to be uncivil.  he will not be posting here but has asked me to answer questions about the graphics used and point out falsities in your reasoning at

Very interesting, as Flexured has stated he is located in HOUSTON, TEXAS, while you placed yourself in SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA. Must be fun working with someone who's nearly 2,000 miles away, did you fly to Houston to help him setup that graphics workstation? As for being uncivil, I think it's generally rude and uncivil to lie and pretend to have something you do not.

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you should know about our actual ip's are masqueraded by the firewall (if you know what that means) and so there are thousands of others

That's a pretty interesting network setup you guys have if you're sitting behind the same firewall and using the same IP address from two geographically disparate locations.

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we develop graphics card and are not without the tools to properly capture simple video frequency

Really. Is this why you used an off the shelf ATI All-In-Wonder VE to "capture" the screenshots from AirWorld? Are you now claiming that you used more expensive equipment to do so? Your gig is up, pack it up and go home.

..Al

[Flexured]

All anyone has here are words and accusations. Anyone can write an email and claim it was sent from someone else, providing a venue for many accusations to flow. Even some accusations which don't even extend to myself, but to other, nameless conspirators in a classic paranoia pattern.

I don't understand why everyone seems to suddenly be upset about this ordeal. If it is a fake I accept that and will put it back in my closet. Or sell it from the website itself, _for what it is_ . Yes my email is both ifjq216@hotmail.com (away) AND jeremy@neosurf.net (home), who's saying Tod Frye is using my email address or that I have claimed to be him, or that anyone is posting anything deceptive here? Prove it?! It seems to me that the manner in which everyone is deriving their arguments here is bent towards the conclusion that the cartridge is a fake, which is still being debated among many. I asked a collegue to come on here and debunk the graphical questions, and you use curse language and accuse him of being me. Well he's not, and I for one hope that in the future we can discuss this along more civil lines, or none at all.

As for Tomas, or finalize as you all know him, he works in both San Jose and our Stafford office, where I am, as well as many of our European and Southeast Asia areas. The ATI card has drivers highly compatible for the purposes at hand.

As for a matter point, I must ask that people use normal language in future correspondence. I would hope that they don't feel they have to resort to 14 year old junior high bathroom talk.

--Jeremy

[Dutchman2000]

Jeremy-

I thought you weren't going to post here anymore?

You've been found out, now go away. Nobody here wants to listen to you anyway. You've had every chance to prove yourself and you've spurned them all.

[Albert]

Flexured said:

I don't understand why everyone seems to suddenly be upset about this ordeal. If it is a fake I accept that and will put it back in my closet. Or sell it from the website itself, _for what it is_ .

What's upsetting here is that someone would go through all this effort to try and pull one over on the classic gaming community. You'll put this "game" back in your closet because all you have is a fake mockup of a non-existant prototype. However, when you trot it out again in two years for more attention, everyone will ignore you.

I don't believe that you captured anything with any type of video capture equipment, simply because of the evidence that has been gathered. And now it's quite clear why you never offered to allow anyone to dump the game. The ball's in your court. If you have *something* in that cartridge that resembles an AirWorld game, then it would be interesting to see it, even if the game is obviously faked. However, I doubt you'll allow anyone to dump it or do it yourself, because you have nothing to show except some mocked up screenshots.

..Al

[Paul Slocum]

Since you captured the screenshots using that ATI card, it should be easy to capture a video clip of the game being played and clear all this graphics mess up. Can't wait to see how you're going to talk your way...err how the gameplay looks.

-Paul

[AtariKari]

Amen. To change the topic ever so slightly, does anyone remember the "Orange Ranger" hoax like this ever so long ago (1994?) on RGVC? That was the first fake 2600 game incident I remember, and it ended with the forger slinking away quietly, as I'd imagine this one does...Ah, the memories

[moycon]

I'd have to say it all interesting to say the least.

Of course after reading all this I am convinced its a hoax as well.
It seems to me, considering the cash that is involved if this guys is serious, he will find a way to verify its the real thing.

The way Jeremy keeps saying that if it turns out to be a fake so be it, makes me think he knows ahead of time it is a fake.

While I think these guys suck if they are in fact trying to pull one over on collectors for monetary gain, TheRedEye might choose his words a little more carefully as all ages read this forum and he's coming off like a 13 year old who hasn't realized he can get his point across more intelligently without using such ridiculous phrases as "Ass shit bastard blowjob"

[broncoman]

[Flexured]

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. Can't wait to how you're going to talk your way...err how the gameplay looks.  

I am in agreement that the game will need to be playtested and a ROM dumped before any of you will finally stop crying, even then, maybe not. But I'm going to do it anyways. This is exactly the assault of character and torrential bombardment of baseless accusation which filled my life with pain and suffering the first time around, except this time I've decided to address the issue instead of just putting it back in the closet.

I hope some of you reflect tonight on the manner in which you have acted. I have never lied, cheated, or stolen from any of you, yet you hurl stones of accusations my way out of hatred with nothing more than a few poorly placed assumptions.

--Jeremy

[broncoman]

well all i can say mr flexured is dump it and let them try it i have no idea my knowledge on this subject is very limited but u never know u might have a real deal

[Dutchman2000]

Once again, I have to say it. Put up or shut up. I will fully apologize to you if this does turn out to be real. But I have my doubts....

[jahfish]

yes, put it back in the Klo

(klo = german for toilet)

[Albert]

Flexured said:

I hope some of you reflect tonight on the manner in which you have acted.   I have never lied, cheated, or stolen from any of you, yet you hurl stones of accusations my way out of hatred with nothing more than a few poorly placed assumptions.

The assumptions are hardly poorly placed. Let me remind you of a few points, in case you didn't read all of the above messages:

1) Screenshots you posted are the exact size and resolution of those taken with the Stella 2600 emulator, and even line up exactly with previously captured images of Earthworld.
2) Each screenshot demonstrates elements that would require the 2600 to display a horizontal resolution of 320, which is not possible.
3) The horse from the title screen is amazingly similar to the one from the unreleased Lord of the Rings game from Parker Brothers, by a different programmer.
4) In one of the Airworld screenshots, the green hand is the exact same color as the background in one of the screens in Earthworld, where it should show the background color of the AirWorld shot instead (oops!)
5) You claim to have captured these images from an inexpensive capture card, producing perfect images that could only have been produced in an emulator.
6) After you declare you're not going to make any further posts here, a "co-worker" of yours, with the same IP address, signs up with a new account and posts two messages supporting you. But he naturally neglects to acknowledge the fact that he knows you or is a co-worker. He also lists his location as San Jose, CA, where you are in Houston. Only when I revealed that you two are posting from the same IP address do you "admit" he's a co-worker (oops!)
7) The dubious cartridge you took a snapshot of doesn't reflect any protos that made their way out of Atari.
8 ) Evidence has been produced that you faked an email from Tod Frye, which amazingly happens to describe the title screen from your "AirWorld" prototype.

The onus is on you to produce the binary. But I feel that you are simply trolling at this point, and we're doing a great job of feeding the troll. I'd love for you to prove us wrong, but I don't have my hopes up. We've offered to dump this game for you in the past and you have shunned our requests.

..Al

[NE146]

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The onus is on you to produce the binary

How about just a couple of quick pics of it playing on a 2600 on a tv?

[jahfish]

you might as well stay with your cart in the closet (or klo) the next two years ;D

[DuckandCover]

"Oh what tangled webs we weave..." Heh.

[Chris++]

This is one of the most fascinating threads I've ever read. It was like Private Eye II: Prove the Fake. God help the poor bastard who crosses the scrutinous, intelligent members of the 2600 community! This guy didn't stand a CHANCE. I'm quite in admiration of all of the work done to expose this thieving cocksucker. There's no way in hell I would've been knowledgeable enough to notice the discrepancies.

Regarding RedEye's profanity, I believe he was sarcastically responding to a post that asked for non-cursing language. I laughed my ass off, personally.


CF

[punkoffgirl]

finalize said:

i have tv wonder card and get good pictures using the linux drivers supplied.  especially with opengl capture rendering you can eliminate most all statics.  the images are distorted because tv wonder does not save images in card the same way that it captures them because linux drivers eliminate static with both the post capture renderer and the gif conversion process alters the pixel enumeration causing the alteration everyone is writing about

http://www.volny.cz/geby/

i'm excited to see more, the misplaced pixel in the man piccture above is also common in the earthworld series in somplaces, so i would not worry about it

can we see more images pleez

Correct me if I'm wrong but.. if the above person is the one who supposedly helped set up for the screen captures in the first place, then why is he so eagerly awaiting "more images"? I mean, he would have been THERE when they were captured in the first place, wouldn't he?

[TheRedEye]

Chris Federico said:

Regarding RedEye's profanity, I believe he was sarcastically responding to a post that asked for non-cursing language. I laughed my ass off, personally.

Indeed.

moycon said:

While I think these guys suck if they are in fact trying to pull one over on collectors for monetary gain, TheRedEye might choose his words a little more carefully as all ages read this forum and he's coming off like a 13 year old who hasn't realized he can get his point across more intelligently without using such ridiculous phrases as "Ass shit bastard blowjob"

Man, seriously. If I ever had need for a quote or something (like, say, I wrote a book and needed some feedback quotes on the back), I swear to god this would be there.

[Albert]

punkoffgirl said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but.. if the above person is the one who supposedly helped set up for the screen captures in the first place, then why is he so eagerly awaiting "more images"?  I mean, he would have been THERE when they were captured in the first place, wouldn't he?

Excellent point and just another example of how this sham has fallen apart. Obviously "flexured" didn't expect that we'd tie the two accounts together so quickly and intended to use the "finalize" account as a booster for his cause.

..Al

[Snider-man]

<using his best announcer voice>

And thus concludes our broadcast. PLease tune in tomorrow for another thrilling installment of "On the Edge of Airworld." Stay tuned for "As The Fake Proto Turns," coming up next on this station.

You're watching AAN - The Atari Age Network.

<cue commerical for Mr. Clean>

[Flexured]

I will now answer your claims:

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1) Screenshots you posted are the exact size and resolution of those taken with the Stella 2600 emulator, and even line up exactly with previously captured images of Earthworld.  

Anyone can scale images to their choosing to prove or disprove anything, given all other variables being constant. I think Tomas explained this, however inadequate, in his own language, and reproduced this effect using MS-PAINT on other images of totally unrelated cartridges.

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2) Each screenshot demonstrates elements that would require the 2600 to display a horizontal resolution of 320, which is not possible.  

It is possible to have resolution differences after converting from MP2 format to the more web friendly GIF. And if you claim the resolutions are impossible, why do you say in your first arguement that they are the same as Earthworld?

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3) The horse from the title screen is amazingly similar to the one from the unreleased Lord of the Rings game from Parker Brothers, by a different programmer.  

Who knows, they do look very similiar, yet there are minor differences aside from the obvioius that one can point out, including the slight difference in curvature on the right side of the horse. It has always been a good coding practice to import as much workable code into a game before it is released, for testing purposes, before tweaking objects to their final state. I don't know if this was common practice of the 1980's Atari environment, but can tell you assuredly that it is in place in today's world.

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4) In one of the Airworld screenshots, the green hand is the exact same color as the background in one of the screens in Earthworld, where it should show the background color of the AirWorld shot instead (oops!)  

And the feet are longer. IE, this is not a quick cut and paste job obviously. If there was only one cartridge released, and I had a screenshot of Fireworld, would you ever believe that the programmers were so lazy as to not even color him in? Aside from that retort, it's not out of the question to think that whoever created this cartridge decided that the all-black or all-white character of the two preceding cartridges in the series was just too bland, and returned to the old school Earthworld style with some color differences. I don't think there are that many frequently used colors on the 2600 palette so anyone pointing out similarities between earthworld and the airworld should have more to say than that.

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5) You claim to have captured these images from an inexpensive capture card, producing perfect images that could only have been produced in an emulator.  

It's not just the card, it's the drivers. And the platform. And the capture/rendering tools. And the connecting hardware environment. All of these things lend themselves to producing the images I created. If it's similiar to an emulator, it should be. It's a screenshot.

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6) After you declare you're not going to make any further posts here, a "co-worker" of yours, with the same IP address, signs up with a new account and posts two messages supporting you. But he naturally neglects to acknowledge the fact that he knows you or is a co-worker. He also lists his location as San Jose, CA, where you are in Houston. Only when I revealed that you two are posting from the same IP address do you "admit" he's a co-worker (oops!)  

I didn't admit to anything, questions were posted pointing out that he and I were logging in from the same IP. We have over 100,000 computers worldwide that use the same internet gateway running IP masquerading. The whole of our company uses a private subnet for internal traffic. He answered some questions when I was putting the environment together, and when people began to attack the way in which the images were taken, I asked him to post, because I stated I wasn't going to anymore and had more technical information than I did anyway in that realm. So, seeing how everyone was, once again, attacking a non collector on this board, I asked him to post as a friend.

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(6B) Correct me if I'm wrong but.. if the above person is the one who supposedly helped set up for the screen captures in the first place, then why is he so eagerly awaiting "more images"? I mean, he would have been THERE when they were captured in the first place, wouldn't he?

No, he wasn't, but good point.

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7) The dubious cartridge you took a snapshot of doesn't reflect any protos that made their way out of Atari.  

I have no knowledge of what the standard prototype cartridge of Atari was. I think that if mine does not look like the standard, it's probably not a prototype.

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8 ) Evidence has been produced that you faked an email from Tod Frye, which amazingly happens to describe the title screen from your "AirWorld" prototype.  

Produce the 'evidence' before making claims of this nature. As stated before, I will not repond to baseless accusations unless they are obviously an expressed or implied assault of my character

And now a point for thought...
-- * --
The much hailed Tod Frye, who's supposed email (still unverified by anyone) never said the cartridge resembled Earthworld, like everyone here keeps saying. He in fact said something quite different:

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the screens shown on this website are variants of the fireworld concepts  

But alas, these posts go nowhere, must... dump... rom...

[Lemmi]

@flexured

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FROM ALBERT: We've offered to dump this game for you in the past and you have shunned our requests.  

Why didnt you take him up on his offer?

i know he would pay for the shipping to him and back to you of the cart