atariksi Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 >No, it's a restriction if you want totally arbitary placement of colours too; if i want the third colour to be darker than the first two it can't be, if i want it to be grey whilst the other two aren't it can't do that either and these are just simple examples. Don't see any restriction with static palettes. Give an example. >Read what i said again, where i said "method allows for animated objects" in particular because yours doesn't; 16K will give static objects with X and Y movement ... I'm so sorry you did not understand my algorithm. Perhaps, if you allow your mind to allow for the possibility rather than trying to find fault, it may become more clear to you. It's dynamic. You can turn off sprite DMA if you are worried about cycles on other scan lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Can we just agree that both the A8 and C64 rock and move on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) 6 - ELEKTRA GLIDE Atari screenshots Here a example how a 128 color palette is totally superior instead a 16 set. C64 version is well programmed, really the CPU is not helping with the frame rate motion, but is aceptable. Atari make good use of ANTIC scroll ability and display many colors. There is no possible to reach this quality on any other 8bit system. And the best of all, any time you pass the level you get another race with other combination of colors, maybe at the whole it can be used 100 colors! C64 screenshots Edited November 28, 2008 by Allas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Coronation Street is the most popular and most watched soap in the UK, that does NOT make it any good. See the comparison? One more thing, TMR boy, MY posts are never irrelevant, the Atari 8-bit computer is still the most stylish. sure, and there are a lot of machines with terraflops, they are the fastest & most memory & hdd machines available, still they are not a bestseller. simply because people look at price/performance ratio and their wallets. c64 was better at that. but even without taking the price/perf ratio in gfx/sfx performance alone, and also better suited most of the game scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 It's all about personal preference, there is no impirical way of stating one is more powerful or better than the other. sure there is. cpu speed. nr of colors. nr of colors / line. etc etc. its all empirically comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Fact is I like my A8 - and nothing anyone says or demonstrates will change that, however loud they shout or however many statistics they shove under my nose. My affection for my first computer is not something I am able to surrender to logic, or facts - it just is! nobody wants to change your or anyone's atari affection. I havent seen such a post here. did you? its about the performance of the 2 machines. Still here I see... quote one then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 the Atari 8-bit computer is still the most stylish. which one? each one of them ? Yes, you got a problem with that? apparently you got a problem I don't have a problem with the Atari 8-bit computer being the most stylish. See, she can see style! I think most people can when comparing. in contrast how about the Vic20.. Ughhh you would think tramaiel would have learn and not used the same on the C64 when you would ask ppl most of them would pick c64. hence more was sold. more ppl have happy memories of the c64, yaddayadda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 See, she can see style! I think most people can when comparing. in contrast how about the Vic20.. Ughhh you would think tramaiel would have learn and not used the same on the C64 That was the cheapest way to production. Jack isn't known for throwing money around. Don't forget that the VIC shifted significant numbers (i believe it was the first machine to move a million units) so if you're deciding what a machine should look like that's one hell of a reason to recycle a design. And there you are, back to my point, you prefer quantity over quality (Don't thank me, it's just my 'talent', which comes naturally, of course). you know, he prefers both. as c64 had both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 - Dropzone- Eidolon - Koronis Rift - Rescue on Fractalus - Hero - Pitfall 2 - International Karate - Rainbow Walker - Pong - Star Raiders 2 - Zone ranger - Gremlins - M.U.L.E. - Archon 1+2 what was better in hero, IK, zone ranger, gremlins, archon 1+2 ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 "was a flop in my country"... heard it a million times already. There must be some obscure unknown country where all those VIC20's and C64's shipped to, otherwise I fail to explain why it was by far the most sold computers of the time since for all countries there is some guy who claims that it "flopped". That's explained easy, just look at the NES, 'flopped in Europe' according to Nintendo (Explained in the Game Over book), but a massive seller in Japan and USA (approx 62 million sold). that doesnt explains anything. the c64 was a hit both in us and eu. where do all the flop guys live ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 mmmm .... 1982 - 1986 C64 is cheaper -> people buy C64 -> companies make more games for C64 -> people buy C64 because have more games 1987 - 1994 C64 is absolutely cheaper -> people continue buy c64 because have tons of games -> companies produce garbage arcade ports at full speed that doesnt say anything. c64 has both more garbage and better games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 That was so later in it's life , earlier like 82 83 84 85, there were many, many more and better games and productivity on the Atari, dont think so. lemon64 has 519 games just from 84... 353 from 83. 375 from 85... thats about a game every day right after the start of the machine. how much did the a8 have for those years? Prices on Atari didn't drop much until 84.After that the reason people bought the C64 was twofold, Atari was out of the market for a bit while Tramiel took over and they never did re-establish their distribution network. So it was more a matter of monkey see monkey buy. the c64 was better and cheaper. no need to create myths. Software sold like crap due to this. We dropped the platform due to high defect,low margin, and bad software sales. sure. you dropped it while it sold like free gold. yeah.. I can believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 On you C64 "fact" What can I say the public is pretty stupid, easy to see that in everyday like, retail never ceases to amaze me. It only has to be good enough, the best seldom sell the best.C64 is just another example of that, though a really good one. the c64 was both better and cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Alright guys, this thread has degenerated quite far enough. Please stop the personal insults or I'll have to lock it. Agreed, though what do you expect when C64 guys troll the Atariage site? most of the personal attacks was done by atarians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Original point: multicolor sprite on Atari is better implementation.QED, you're using 4 sprites. thats why atari has "better" multicolor based sprite games huh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 (edited) >the screen rendered by a8/c64 is 2d. forget the z axis for god's sake. >It expands and shrinks on my version. what? the screen? you have a 3d one with z axis ? >why should you accept anything I say or link, or anything on the world, like facts that there were sprite capable video chips before the atari ? >You gave a link stating earlier existence of sprites. I gave a link to article stating Atari 800 was first to use them. It does not follow that your article is correct. and why does it follow that your article is correct ? >>Why do you call look-up tables are WASTING RAM? It's a way of SPEEDING things up. I use the following code all the time: >compared to VICII where they are not needed arent they ? either 11x slower or much more ram needed to reach the same speed... >Original point: POTENTIAL OF machine targetting 800XL vs. C64. Now you want to compare RAM useage 16K vs. 1K. sure, and potentially the c64 is either faster or uses much less ram for moving around sprites. goto 10. >Restricted modes, I can pump out 16 colors in 320*200 as well. I gave you mode where it's not restricted. I can do any of the 16 shades at any point. >Original point: most imagery has shading. Your resolution cannot have as much shading as that's a hardware restriction. you can not pump out 16 colors in 320x200 without using the cpu. the c64 can. and its certainly much better for gfx than a monochrome screen with 4x wide pixels, it uses 1000 bytes more data to build up the screen. remember? the more data the better picture: Edited November 28, 2008 by Oswald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I can explain how it's doable as I already have it working. However, when you have some biased people already finding fault with it before I even show it, I'll wait for their attitude to change or for them to shut-up. sure I also have a 50fps doom clone for the c64, but I wont show it until atari ppl are so biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 C64 version is well programmed, really the CPU is not helping with the frame rate motion, but is aceptable. Atari make good use of ANTIC scroll ability and display many colors. There is no possible to reach this quality on any other 8bit system. - the c64 version is 50fps it cant be any faster. - for example the plus4 could do it aswell in this quality. add NES, MSX, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 the c64 was both better and cheaper. Different and cheaper, yes. Why not using a game for comparision where the C64 looks like the 4 years older computer? The name is Koronis Rift. http://www.mobygames.com/game/koronis-rift/screenshots The only picture that looks worse on the Atari is the title screen. But in game you see the clear difference. Around 50 colours (incl. 16 steps of one hue) on the Atari with a 3 layer depth of view and fading hills come into the scene softly. The C64 even shows not 16 colours, has only two layers of depth, and due to the missing palette the hills are hard popping into the scene... and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Oswald, can you please just make one post instead of making post after post after post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 @ Allas ok... end how many C64 better versions than Atari can you post??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Why not using a game for comparision where the C64 looks like the 4 years older computer? The name is Koronis Rift. emkay, yes koronis rift is better on the a8, but there are more better games for the c64, if you wanna play like this. apollo, sorry simply I was replaying to a lot of posts in one go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaPa Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Why not using a game for comparision where the C64 looks like the 4 years older computer? The name is Koronis Rift. emkay, yes koronis rift is better on the a8, but there are more better games for the c64, if you wanna play like this. First post in this thread: Does anybody have any views on where any titles were launched on both Atari and Commodore - and the Atari version is the better of the two? Any problem with someone answer to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 @MaPa... sorry forgot the topic... so we should search further... do we get 20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oswald Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 First post in this thread: Does anybody have any views on where any titles were launched on both Atari and Commodore - and the Atari version is the better of the two? Any problem with someone answer to it? no. tho emkay wasnt answering to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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