Atari v Commodore

[Albert]

Conclusion: frenchmen still surrender monkey without ANY kind of skills apart from random trolling. Have you done ANYTHING valueable in your life at all? Your wife must be pretty disappointed.

Buh-Bye.

 

..Al

[Bryan]

The XE keyboard was only slightly better than having to short pins on Pokey to ground manually.

 

 

 

Oh, Hi Albert!

Edited April 27, 2009 by Bryan

[emkay]

Those Atari pictures look better than the '64 ones.

 

Putting artistic qualities aside, the Atari pics each have a different looking palette, practically all the '64 ones look the same.

 

C64 - It's like buying your kid one of those packs of 72 textas but losing three quarters of them on the way home... actually, you probably lost a few more than that.

 

VIC-II runs at 18 MHz? I kinda doubt that. Doesn't matter a lot anyway. Antic runs at 1.8 MHz, but outputs data to GTIA on both edges of the clock.

 

Typo sorry, yes it is 8mhz clock for VIC-II indeed which is why the C128 had the same VIC-II and ran the same bus and CPU speeds. 16mhz VIC-II wasn't possible for 2mhz CPU in C128 mode.

 

Being able to control an ADSR via software on Pokey to claim it has ADSR as standard is like saying the ST (not STE) has the same sample playback facility as the Amiga via the CPU and we all know how different sample playback quality is on those machines

 

Be consistent. If you are comparing hardware features and don't allow software simulations of ADSR then you should also accept there's no hardware scrolling on C64 (beyond 3 bits). You contradicted yourself in the very next post #5349 claiming C64 can do scroll using software.

 

that's logical. I like that Atariski. and you are right...

 

 

And there is another Point. I'm not writing incoherent stuff.

1. POKEY has real ADRS features. It is a timed offset between the main voice and the filter voice, making volume vatiations possible even between "50Hz" steps.

2. Ring modulation works. You know the plastic pop remake. It is a basically working ring modulation.

3. And, well sinewaves. The video shown in the other thread shows clearly sinewaves and they are pitch correct.

Well, back in the 80s I read a book about POKEY and that it is possible to have those analog sinewaves...

[Bryan]

1. POKEY has real ADRS features. It is a timed offset between the main voice and the filter voice, making volume vatiations possible even between "50Hz" steps.

 

I disagree. ADSR stands for Attack, Decay, Sustain, and Release. Pokey needs control over all four forms of volume ramping to qualify.

[emkay]

and now you do the same with this picture:

 

 

(its not interlaced, true 320x200)

 

 

Looks fine, but I think Atari can do a better picture. Maybe not on 320x200, but with better colors.

I try to do a fast conversion, it could be enhanced a lot more, because I use basically 4 colors (with the 5th color and sprite overlays will looks perfect).

Off course, the hand of an artist is necessary, not mine. It's enough to catch the idea.

 

 

 

 

Just to show how far from the original even the C64 pic is.

 

 

Let's have a proper working Graph2font and we will see the >more amiga like< version on the A8 in hires... really.

[emkay]

1. POKEY has real ADRS features. It is a timed offset between the main voice and the filter voice, making volume vatiations possible even between "50Hz" steps.

 

I disagree. ADSR stands for Attack, Decay, Sustain, and Release. Pokey needs control over all four forms of volume ramping to qualify.

 

You need some corrections there, but you don't need to correct the ADSR curve constantly. And that is the point.

The biggest benefit on the C64 is that volume control happens, even if not constantly adjusting the ADSR curve (but, they do because of the limited ADSR features)

[frogstar_robot]

Conclusion: frenchmen still surrender monkey without ANY kind of skills apart from random trolling. Have you done ANYTHING valueable in your life at all? Your wife must be pretty disappointed.

Buh-Bye. Fröhn

 

..Al

 

A couple of us find it very possible that account may have been hijacked. Up until a very suspect and out of character series of posts, Fröhn has at times been heated but respectful. Of course, an account compromised by a troll needs to be dealt with but I'm reserving judgment on Fröhn himself.

[frogstar_robot]

 

 

 

 

Just to show how far from the original even the C64 pic is.

 

Other than the inevitable green and purple tinging, the C64 is producing quite a nice likeness of it.

[Rybags]

Rybags said "The CIN+ mode I devised allows 96 colours (with some restrictions) using PAL mixing, with 160 pixels across, and not using the TIP like technique of alternating Modes 9 and 10."

 

Can you post some images?

 

 

They're from running in the emulator. The mode uses colour mixing like APAC and TIP. One GTIA colour line, then a truncated Antic Mode 4 line (single scanline).

 

That allows 5 colours due to the high-bit of the character selecting PF3 instead of PF2. Then the PMG underlay allows a sixth. So, you have 6 luma choices at 160 pixels across, colour representation is still at 80 pixel resolution.

 

You can alternate the colour with the luma lines per frame which gives a fuller effect (ie reduces the "blinds") but at the cost of the flicker effect.

 

That mode is rather memory hungry since it has to use 40 bytes of character set RAM for every 2 luma lines. Only 2 bytes of each 8 bytes for a character cell can be used.

 

I've devised a better system though, you can use bitmap mode instead, and a kernal to reuse Players on a scanline to get virtually the same effect with much less RAM usage.

 

There's a number of possibilities for what you can do - use the Players in OR mode, use them as underlays etc.

 

The pics are kinda quick & dirty implementations... some sort of proper editor would probably showcase the mode better.

 

FC2.zip - Far Cry pic (XEX) - pressing SPACE toggles between interleaving col/luma lines per frame, and static pic.

[atarian63]

I think its a very valid point. what most people like is usually a good thing, and what most peope dont prefer is usually a not so good thing.

 

Yes but not always...

 

Things most People like/liked that are just plain c%&p.

 

George Bush

Europop

Fast Food

The Spice Girls

C64

 

Lol

Don't forget the Pet Rock from the 70's. Sold a million, just like the VIC20. HA Ha!

[atarian63]

You probably are. Gay and unskilled. Gay would be fine...

 

Well, thank you, and it takes one to know one....unskilled that is, and we established that you are quite some posts back already.

"takes one to know one" is kinda cheap.

 

Like a C64 perhaps? They seem to thrive on 'cheap'.

 

Obviously a troll who doesn't read anything other than fanboy Atari posts and skips the rest. The C64 may have been $599 not $799 and the reason why is...dun dun dahhhh....Commodore OWNED MOS Technologies, MOS employees designed the VIC-II and SID for FREE, and produced the chips at COST PRICE for Commodore. The real price of producing the C64 for any other company would have been double the price. These are facts...please pay attention or you will just get ignored for ignorant trolling thanks

 

The reason why Jack Tramiel was the ONLY businessman in the world to ever screw Bill Gates over in business (he didn't pay Microsoft any royalties until the Commodore 128 version of Basic) is because he is clever, and because he was so damned clever in business he bought MOS Technologies with Irvine Gould's money so he would never get screwed over again by a 3rd party chip manufacturer after Texas Instruments screwed him on calculator chips. He did to everyone else with the C64 hardware and MOS ownership what Texas Instruments did to him with calculator chips.

 

What is cheap without a doubt is the horrible spongey 65XE/130XE keyboards (800 and 800XL had great keyboards)...now that was a cheap and nasty machine to type on for sure compared to the C64 frenchman...feel free to try and hurt my feelings with dumb nonfactual off topic insults about that though man LOL

LMAO the original C64 keyboard was a really POS, Not that they 65XE/130XE was great but to say it was worse that C64 is laughable. And the typing angle on C64 , just god awful. Was a dealer, sold both. C64 was crappy.

Also... if Jack was so smart. What happened later when he gave Atari 8bit the jack treatment..

 

Erm are you really saying the XE keyboard is better than the C64? LMAO? now I know you're an idiot the XE keyboard is probably the worst 8bit keyboard out there. It's unusable for anything other than 1 finger typing noobs

 

As for the 8bit...what did you expect him to do....spend the last of his cash on streamlining production costs for something that software houses found a pain in the arse to program compared to the rival 8bit machines out there....OR....make a modern 16bit machine that beat the pants of the Mac in speed and cost

 

This is why this thread is useless, for every wolfram there is 10 atari idiots still sniffing there butts and dreaming of 'what might have been' what actually happened was your 1978 difficult to handle technology was superceded with simpler machines producing the same or better results.

 

XE keyboard better than a proper keyboard....lol yeh ok mate....stop smoking the weed k?

Personal insults are a waste of time, if you can't see what a POS the C64 KB (proper my ass) is then there is no point talking to you. You just won't get it. I can't help you with a different perspective , but to each his own.

 

On the Jack stuff, actually the 800xl's he was moving out cheap, out cheaped the C64 that season and they sold ton's it was a recommended buy from CR that year I believe. Value for the money.

I can't help that there were idiots prior to that time that bought a crappy, cheap machine because it was cheap which it was. The result was a larger base to sell to, therefore more programs, Atari was just fine to program as many have shown here and as evidenced by thousands of titles.

I would have expected him maybe to license some titles, get some venture capital from others and really make a go of the fight. If "Business is war" and you only have $50million sized gun, well you better get some bigger guns! He had great products. A cheap consumer machine (130xe), A Mac Killer(ST) just advertise where someone can see it an push HARD. Lynx,easily the best handheld of it's day, Then later the Jag. Talk about a failure to license and advertise not to mention making programming tools available.DUH! Hard to loose when your are dealt mostly aces. Compromise and get some capital!

 

With Jack it was always about control and everything was personal. I personally am grateful he kept it going (drives Commodore people crazy) and in the end Atari did outlast Commodore. He could have done more that is all. License decent titles for Lynx, advertise in general. Funny thing is that Commodore seemed to have forgotten what to do without Jack as well. Good products, not much advertising.

 

The reality is that often the most popular item is usually not the best one, but one that will do the job in an ok fashion and is cheap. People are cheap.

Applies to cars, phones, etc. Look at Ipod restrictive software, not the best tech(ok iTouch is nice) but it's an apple... the Hanna Montana syndrome.

Edited April 27, 2009 by atarian63

[youki]

Rybags said "The CIN+ mode I devised allows 96 colours (with some restrictions) using PAL mixing, with 160 pixels across, and not using the TIP like technique of alternating Modes 9 and 10."

 

Can you post some images?

 

 

They're from running in the emulator. The mode uses colour mixing like APAC and TIP. One GTIA colour line, then a truncated Antic Mode 4 line (single scanline).

 

That allows 5 colours due to the high-bit of the character selecting PF3 instead of PF2. Then the PMG underlay allows a sixth. So, you have 6 luma choices at 160 pixels across, colour representation is still at 80 pixel resolution.

 

You can alternate the colour with the luma lines per frame which gives a fuller effect (ie reduces the "blinds") but at the cost of the flicker effect.

 

That mode is rather memory hungry since it has to use 40 bytes of character set RAM for every 2 luma lines. Only 2 bytes of each 8 bytes for a character cell can be used.

 

I've devised a better system though, you can use bitmap mode instead, and a kernal to reuse Players on a scanline to get virtually the same effect with much less RAM usage.

 

There's a number of possibilities for what you can do - use the Players in OR mode, use them as underlays etc.

 

The pics are kinda quick & dirty implementations... some sort of proper editor would probably showcase the mode better.

 

FC2.zip - Far Cry pic (XEX) - pressing SPACE toggles between interleaving col/luma lines per frame, and static pic.

 

 

the castle picture from C64 version of Defender of the Crown. It does not use any tricks here.

 

 

Just to compare. I think the A800 can do very nice pictures but in a too tricky way where you can get a very good results on a C64 without lot of effort. That's why i think the C64 design is better. (i don't speak about power, just about design)

Edited April 27, 2009 by youki

[Atari_Owl]

Conclusion: frenchmen still surrender monkey without ANY kind of skills apart from random trolling. Have you done ANYTHING valueable in your life at all? Your wife must be pretty disappointed.

Buh-Bye. Fröhn

 

..Al

 

A couple of us find it very possible that account may have been hijacked. Up until a very suspect and out of character series of posts, Fröhn has at times been heated but respectful. Of course, an account compromised by a troll needs to be dealt with but I'm reserving judgment on Fröhn himself.

 

REALLY?

 

Or is that just the 'my little brother logged onto my account and did it' excuse that's been used by trolls a million times.

 

I don't buy it, I've never seen an account really and truly hijacked and i doubt this is going to turn out to be a first time.

[+wood_jl]

He had great products. A cheap consumer machine (130xe), A Mac Killer(ST) just advertise where someone can see it an push HARD. Lynx,easily the best handheld of it's day, Then later the Jag.

 

Totally correct about everything but the Jag. I bought all of that stuff, too. The Jag was the worst $250 I ever spent on electronics and/or entertainment, as it failed to impress compared to its competitors. The XE, Lynx, and ST all favored well compared to their competitors, in price as well as performance. They tried to kill videogames by shelving the 7800 when it mattered, then releasing the XE game system with spending nothing on new software (re-releasing YEARS OLD 8-bit software on cart doesn't count), and they must have spend little on Jag software development as well, because so much was so bad, or at best failed to impress. It was extremely disappointing. Tramiels knew nothing of video game market, other than how to make the wrong moves.

 

I personally am grateful he kept it going (drives Commodore people crazy) and in the end Atari did outlast Commodore.

Ha Ha, so true! I never thought about it in those terms, but Atari *did* outlast Commodore. Explanation, anyone?

 

 

Good products, not much advertising.

Except for the Jag!!! The Jag is the only Atari product I saw heavily (relative term, to other Atari products) advertised. I probably never saw that many Atari ads since the 2600 heyday. So for that one, there was advertising. The product (games anyway) were not what I'd call "good."

[+SpiceWare]

Today's Penny Arcade! is so fitting for this topic.

[Heaven/TQA]

as I hooked up my C64 II and 1541... where the hell is TAB? sorry, never remembered that there is no tab key at all? it is restore there?

[Bryan]

as I hooked up my C64 II and 1541... where the hell is TAB? sorry, never remembered that there is no tab key at all? it is restore there?

TAB died so that £ could live.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Bryan

[oky2000]

Those Atari pictures look better than the '64 ones.

 

Putting artistic qualities aside, the Atari pics each have a different looking palette, practically all the '64 ones look the same.

 

C64 - It's like buying your kid one of those packs of 72 textas but losing three quarters of them on the way home... actually, you probably lost a few more than that.

 

VIC-II runs at 18 MHz? I kinda doubt that. Doesn't matter a lot anyway. Antic runs at 1.8 MHz, but outputs data to GTIA on both edges of the clock.

 

Typo sorry, yes it is 8mhz clock for VIC-II indeed which is why the C128 had the same VIC-II and ran the same bus and CPU speeds. 16mhz VIC-II wasn't possible for 2mhz CPU in C128 mode.

 

Being able to control an ADSR via software on Pokey to claim it has ADSR as standard is like saying the ST (not STE) has the same sample playback facility as the Amiga via the CPU and we all know how different sample playback quality is on those machines

 

Be consistent. If you are comparing hardware features and don't allow software simulations of ADSR then you should also accept there's no hardware scrolling on C64 (beyond 3 bits). You contradicted yourself in the very next post #5349 claiming C64 can do scroll using software.

 

that's logical. I like that Atariski. and you are right...

 

 

And there is another Point. I'm not writing incoherent stuff.

1. POKEY has real ADRS features. It is a timed offset between the main voice and the filter voice, making volume vatiations possible even between "50Hz" steps.

2. Ring modulation works. You know the plastic pop remake. It is a basically working ring modulation.

3. And, well sinewaves. The video shown in the other thread shows clearly sinewaves and they are pitch correct.

Well, back in the 80s I read a book about POKEY and that it is possible to have those analog sinewaves...

 

ADSR stands for hardware completely un monitored/modified transformation of muscial notes pertaining to the note's

 

Attack rate

Decay rate

Sustain duration before silence

release duration to silence

 

What ever it is you are trying to get us to believe it sure as hell isn't ADSR as defined by every manufacturer of musical hardware.

 

And VSP scrolling is hardware scrolling. It is no more effort than sprite multiplexing which is specifically hinted at in the 1982 official documentation of specification as detailed by the phrase "8 sprites per horizontal line, more with rasters" and certainly no more effort than getting more than for different unique colours per 160x200 screen than the A8 supports.

 

So take a pick? Be consistent yourself.

Edited April 27, 2009 by oky2000

[ZylonBane]

ADSR stands for hardware completely un monitored/modified transformation of muscial notes pertaining to the note's

No, that's HCUM/MTOMNPTTN.

 

ADSR stands for a certain very simplistic form of volume modulation, and it doesn't matter one bloody bit whether it's implemented in hardware or software.

[atariksi]

Those Atari pictures look better than the '64 ones.

 

Putting artistic qualities aside, the Atari pics each have a different looking palette, practically all the '64 ones look the same.

 

C64 - It's like buying your kid one of those packs of 72 textas but losing three quarters of them on the way home... actually, you probably lost a few more than that.

 

VIC-II runs at 18 MHz? I kinda doubt that. Doesn't matter a lot anyway. Antic runs at 1.8 MHz, but outputs data to GTIA on both edges of the clock.

 

Typo sorry, yes it is 8mhz clock for VIC-II indeed which is why the C128 had the same VIC-II and ran the same bus and CPU speeds. 16mhz VIC-II wasn't possible for 2mhz CPU in C128 mode.

 

Being able to control an ADSR via software on Pokey to claim it has ADSR as standard is like saying the ST (not STE) has the same sample playback facility as the Amiga via the CPU and we all know how different sample playback quality is on those machines

 

Be consistent. If you are comparing hardware features and don't allow software simulations of ADSR then you should also accept there's no hardware scrolling on C64 (beyond 3 bits). You contradicted yourself in the very next post #5349 claiming C64 can do scroll using software.

 

that's logical. I like that Atariski. and you are right...

 

 

And there is another Point. I'm not writing incoherent stuff.

1. POKEY has real ADRS features. It is a timed offset between the main voice and the filter voice, making volume vatiations possible even between "50Hz" steps.

2. Ring modulation works. You know the plastic pop remake. It is a basically working ring modulation.

3. And, well sinewaves. The video shown in the other thread shows clearly sinewaves and they are pitch correct.

Well, back in the 80s I read a book about POKEY and that it is possible to have those analog sinewaves...

 

ADSR stands for hardware completely un monitored/modified transformation of muscial notes pertaining to the note's

 

Attack rate

Decay rate

Sustain duration before silence

release duration to silence

 

What ever it is you are trying to get us to believe it sure as hell isn't ADSR as defined by every manufacturer of musical hardware.

 

And VSP scrolling is hardware scrolling. It is no more effort than sprite multiplexing which is specifically hinted at in the 1982 official documentation of specification as detailed by the phrase "8 sprites per horizontal line, more with rasters" and certainly no more effort than getting more than for different unique colours per 160x200 screen than the A8 supports.

 

So take a pick? Be consistent yourself.

 

It is ADSR if it's simulated exactly according to hardware. There are disk drives simulated in software that behave exactly like hardware disk drives. You need to be consistent first on who you are replying to. The point to take into account is what is cost of CPU cycles vs. a direct hardware support. If you do scrolling on C64, you have to move the entire bitmap whereas on Atari it's just a memory location update. If you are talking about scrolling a sprite layer, you still have to use raster interrupts to replicate your sprites; and that's techincally not the same as a scrolling bitmap. There is only a 160*200*5 color on A8 and the rest is a software simulation (except of course the sprite overlays and OR effects that don't require CPU intervention).

[atariksi]

 

 

 

 

Just to show how far from the original even the C64 pic is.

 

Other than the inevitable green and purple tinging, the C64 is producing quite a nice likeness of it.

 

You need to look closely; C64 image is dithered in addition to being miscolored.

[atariksi]

atariksi - I should have further qualified that statement...

 

3 bit color in 160 wide resolution with color indirection is what the 8bit offers really - now do a horizontal split and double that for SOME registers, and it's quite easy to get 12 colors per scanline, but it does tie up the system a bit

 

I personally find GTIA modes a bit too coarse for static artwork, but great for games...

 

sTeVE

 

I use GTIA modes mostly and original argument of color depth favors Atari since it offers 16+ colors for more pixels than C64. Here's a sample executeable that will put up different color for every pixel in the scanline for GTIA modes. Theoretically, this does 7 different 16-shade palettes per scanline with player #5 for another 16 shades, 4 players for another 6 colors = 134 colors/scanline from palette of 256. Since there are only maximum of 96 GTIA pixels/scanline, you end up with a different color for every pixel. You can also switch to other GTIA modes or Graphics 8 at any of the 7 points where modes are switched. There's the fifth player scrolling around on top of the 112 GTIA colors and 6 colors of 4 players in the overscan area:

ATARIHC.zip

[www.atarimania.com]

This is why this thread is useless, for every wolfram there is 10 atari idiots still sniffing there butts and dreaming of 'what might have been' what actually happened was your 1978 difficult to handle technology was superceded with simpler machines producing the same or better results.

You're misinformed and the one completely missing the point...

 

You're comparing platforms with some real presence in the UK, lots of active developers, proper distribution and full support with the Atari, a computer that could never compete due to failing price policies, the company's mismanagement and sales that couldn't create any market.

 

Here's a simple question: what makes you think a respectable market share in the UK wouldn't have created true "emulation" within the Atari community? Look what happened in the US from 1982 to 1984...

 

You need perspectives to push creativity and that's why there's technical progress. You don't seem to realize that the Atari platform lost many years because it never was a true contender during the European software boom.

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[oky2000]

You probably are. Gay and unskilled. Gay would be fine...

 

Well, thank you, and it takes one to know one....unskilled that is, and we established that you are quite some posts back already.

"takes one to know one" is kinda cheap.

 

Like a C64 perhaps? They seem to thrive on 'cheap'.

 

Obviously a troll who doesn't read anything other than fanboy Atari posts and skips the rest. The C64 may have been $599 not $799 and the reason why is...dun dun dahhhh....Commodore OWNED MOS Technologies, MOS employees designed the VIC-II and SID for FREE, and produced the chips at COST PRICE for Commodore. The real price of producing the C64 for any other company would have been double the price. These are facts...please pay attention or you will just get ignored for ignorant trolling thanks

 

The reason why Jack Tramiel was the ONLY businessman in the world to ever screw Bill Gates over in business (he didn't pay Microsoft any royalties until the Commodore 128 version of Basic) is because he is clever, and because he was so damned clever in business he bought MOS Technologies with Irvine Gould's money so he would never get screwed over again by a 3rd party chip manufacturer after Texas Instruments screwed him on calculator chips. He did to everyone else with the C64 hardware and MOS ownership what Texas Instruments did to him with calculator chips.

 

What is cheap without a doubt is the horrible spongey 65XE/130XE keyboards (800 and 800XL had great keyboards)...now that was a cheap and nasty machine to type on for sure compared to the C64 frenchman...feel free to try and hurt my feelings with dumb nonfactual off topic insults about that though man LOL

LMAO the original C64 keyboard was a really POS, Not that they 65XE/130XE was great but to say it was worse that C64 is laughable. And the typing angle on C64 , just god awful. Was a dealer, sold both. C64 was crappy.

Also... if Jack was so smart. What happened later when he gave Atari 8bit the jack treatment..

 

Erm are you really saying the XE keyboard is better than the C64? LMAO? now I know you're an idiot the XE keyboard is probably the worst 8bit keyboard out there. It's unusable for anything other than 1 finger typing noobs

 

As for the 8bit...what did you expect him to do....spend the last of his cash on streamlining production costs for something that software houses found a pain in the arse to program compared to the rival 8bit machines out there....OR....make a modern 16bit machine that beat the pants of the Mac in speed and cost

 

This is why this thread is useless, for every wolfram there is 10 atari idiots still sniffing there butts and dreaming of 'what might have been' what actually happened was your 1978 difficult to handle technology was superceded with simpler machines producing the same or better results.

 

XE keyboard better than a proper keyboard....lol yeh ok mate....stop smoking the weed k?

Personal insults are a waste of time, if you can't see what a POS the C64 KB (proper my ass) is then there is no point talking to you. You just won't get it. I can't help you with a different perspective , but to each his own.

 

On the Jack stuff, actually the 800xl's he was moving out cheap, out cheaped the C64 that season and they sold ton's it was a recommended buy from CR that year I believe. Value for the money.

I can't help that there were idiots prior to that time that bought a crappy, cheap machine because it was cheap which it was. The result was a larger base to sell to, therefore more programs, Atari was just fine to program as many have shown here and as evidenced by thousands of titles.

I would have expected him maybe to license some titles, get some venture capital from others and really make a go of the fight. If "Business is war" and you only have $50million sized gun, well you better get some bigger guns! He had great products. A cheap consumer machine (130xe), A Mac Killer(ST) just advertise where someone can see it an push HARD. Lynx,easily the best handheld of it's day, Then later the Jag. Talk about a failure to license and advertise not to mention making programming tools available.DUH! Hard to loose when your are dealt mostly aces. Compromise and get some capital!

 

With Jack it was always about control and everything was personal. I personally am grateful he kept it going (drives Commodore people crazy) and in the end Atari did outlast Commodore. He could have done more that is all. License decent titles for Lynx, advertise in general. Funny thing is that Commodore seemed to have forgotten what to do without Jack as well. Good products, not much advertising.

 

The reality is that often the most popular item is usually not the best one, but one that will do the job in an ok fashion and is cheap. People are cheap.

Applies to cars, phones, etc. Look at Ipod restrictive software, not the best tech(ok iTouch is nice) but it's an apple... the Hanna Montana syndrome.

 

Well if a 'crap' machine can produce a game like Enforcer II with no funny add ons at all then what does that make a so called super powerful games machine like the A8 hmmm? I have yet to see a single fast arcade game as impressive as that piece of coding linked to on youtube by a single member in this forum.

 

The XE keyboard IS a POS and therefore you ARE being an idiot over it. Like I said the 800 and 800XL had great keyboards (and better than the C64 as I said) XEGS keyboard, 65XE and 130XE had a POS for a keyboard. If you take that as a personal insult then I suggest you never leave your house into the world of facts......

 

Most A8 games looked like 1983 first generation C64 stuff at best. The fact was generally games on the C64 looked and sounded better, games on the Amiga looked and sounded better.....history tells the rest.

 

You are living in a dream world mate, if this was a multiformat machine forum where any kind of level headed common sense was required you would have been banned for trolling within days of joining it...sadly the moderators here are Atari fanboys looking at the banning of JUST frohn so it's a shame that I shall have to leave you Atarians in this section of the forum to live in your delusional world that your machine is a super fantastic 100 slamdunk winner against any other 8bit machine ever produced in the world

[oky2000]

 

 

 

 

Just to show how far from the original even the C64 pic is.

 

Other than the inevitable green and purple tinging, the C64 is producing quite a nice likeness of it.

 

You need to look closely; C64 image is dithered in addition to being miscolored.

 

You need to take your fanboy glasses OFF and notice the Atari image posted looks much worse and amatuerish in the first place. Use a consistent base for your comparisons please...no wait you can't because you are nothing more than a trolling fanboy trying to use deception and distraction from true bare faced facts to 'win' and argument with inferior 'evidence' like emkay.

 

Maybe you two should hook up outside the forum, sure you will both get on like a house on fire in your own delusional world