37 replies to this topic

[mos6507]

I don't want to sabotage Longhorn's A/V mod thread so I'll just create this standalone topic. Chris Wilkson is in the final stages of preparing a new A/V mod. It's tentative name is CyberTech Pro.

Just a quick history lesson in A/V mods... There were always DIY mods out there but Chris was actually first person to productize an A/V mod board. The Cybertech was put up side by side with all of the DIY mod circuits and considered to be the best picture quality. I remember tweaking the pots with the color bars program and getting the output pretty close to the reference standard on the vectorscope. So I hold it in very high regard.

The Cybertech was sold by atari2600.com. It was a rather expensive product and I'm not sure how many people ever got them, but it quietly went out of production. Nevertheless, people continued to talk about doing their own one-off mods and it kind of bugged me because I knew the DIY mods never held a candle to the quality of the Cybertech.

Then 8-bit-domain came around and started offering A/V mod boards. Happy ending, right? Well, not really. As we all know, 8-bit domain's order fulfillment is hit-or-miss at best. So it was around that time that I started to wheel and deal with Chris to see if there would be a way to reissue the Cybertech board.

So it looks like we have a new board design that:

• Can be sold at a lower pricepoint than the original (nonprofit like Chimera is supposed to be)
  
• Should have an even cleaner picture
  
• Contains a stereo external audio mixer (designed for Atarivox)
  
• Is much smaller footprint vs. the original (should fit into most 2600s, not sure yet with the Jr.)

I'm not quite ready to take preorders, but Chris is already starting to float ETA dates of February 2009, so I feel comfortable enough making this announcement, that this will indeed be released in the near future.

More details will follow. For those who are looking for an A/V mod, you should weigh the pros and cons of preording Longhorn's A/V mod or waiting to see how the CyberTech Pro is. I have nothing against Longhorn's project. It's just that my interest in getting the CyberTech reissued predates Longhorn's involvement. It's just something I think is worth doing even though it does force some competition between the two items (or three if you consider 8bitdomain a contender).

I will continue to post updates here and on my blog.

Thanks.

[Longhorn Engineer]

Hope yall get it done. I am interested in seeing the solution Chris comes up with. Don't worry about stepping on toes or anything. I am all for competition.

If you check my thread I figured out what was causing the vertical lines (atleast from what I can tell) hope it helps you out.

[SpiceWare]

I bought one way back when and really like the image quality. The stereo output is why Medieval Mayhem was written for stereo sound.

The mixer for the AtariVox sounds pretty cool!

Edited by SpiceWare, Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:50 PM.

[cwilkson]

FYI, I'm lurking here. But I'm on vacation until January, so I won't be able to generate much original content until then. If you have questions, ask here and I can respond within a day or two.

STATUS:

The initial design is done and I placed an order for some Beta boards today. The beta PCBs should be done in a few days. But this is very complicated board with 70 surface mount components (it has a rich feature set!) so it'll be machine assembled. I expect that set up to take a while. I'll have to do that after I have the blank PCBs in hand. I hope to get the assembled betas back in mid January. I'll spend a couple of days testing them. Then, if all is well, I'll send them out to the beta testers for feedback.

I've done some things to clean up or entirely eliminate some long standing issues with 2600 video. All the circuits work individually, but as Longhorn found out with the vertical chroma lines, things don't get truly interesting until everything is plugged together and radiating on the same board. These may ship as the final design, or I may have to tweak some things first. I'll find out in a couple of weeks.

I'm looking for 3-4 beta testers targeting the last week of January for testing. Any volunteers? In particular, I'd like to focus on LCD monitors with composite and s-video inputs or mid- to high-end CRT studio monitors. It's hard to see certain problems on a standard low-res TV/monitor (like those cursed vertical lines). Another thing I'd like to do is run these in a broadcast studio as if the output was going live and needed to be calibrated. I can provide color bars software for the 2600, but I don't have the studio access to do this myself. Any video engineers here?

EDIT:
A minor correction to Glenn's original post. The original "complicated" version of the CyberTech board was able to fit in a 2600 Jr. with some care. But this one (the CyberTech Pro) doesn't support the Jr. Due to the added complexity I wasn't able to accomodate the rotated TIA option on the same board like I did before. If you really want to keep your Jr, if you simply can't live without it, then get the CyberTech Home version. It's much smaller and a little bit cheaper due to the lack of "Pro" features - no image adjustment (contrast, brightness, and saturation) and no audio input mixer. If there is enough interest, I *might* be able to do a board specifically for Jr's. But I would recommend getting a full sized 2600 to run the CyberTech Pro. It's *much* nicer!

-Chris

Edited by cwilkson, Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:31 AM.

[nonner242]

Any volunteers?

ME!

In particular, I'd like to focus on LCD monitors with composite and s-video inputs I have!

or mid- to high-end CRT studio monitors. Got 1 too!

How complicated of a install is it?

I have 3 2600 to fry!

Edited by nonner242, Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:41 AM.

[cwilkson]

nonner242, on Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:38 AM, said:

ME!

Man, that was fast! What kind of monitors do you have? (i.e. maker and model)

The install details are still being worked out, mainly how I'm going to do the cables. That's the kind of thing I can't do while on vacation. But here's the basic idea:
1 ) open the Atari
2 ) route the cables from the outside
3 ) plug the cables into the board
4 ) Remove the TIA chip from the Atari and plug it into the socket on the board then plug the board back into the Atari. (If the chip is soldered into your Atari, then you have to desolder it and install a socket in the Atari.)
5 ) Connect it to your display device and turn everything on.
6 ) Adjust the color pot in the Atari
7 ) If you don't like the factory settings, you can adjust the video on the board.
8 ) If you're happy with the picture, close the Atari and enjoy!

[Carpenter]

cwilkson, on Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:13 AM, said:

FYI, I'm lurking here. But I'm on vacation until January, so I won't be able to generate much original content until then. If you have questions, ask here and I can respond within a day or two.

STATUS:

The initial design is done and I placed an order for some Beta boards today. The beta PCBs should be done in a few days. But this is very complicated board with 70 surface mount components (it has a rich feature set!) so it'll be machine assembled. I expect that set up to take a while. I'll have to do that after I have the blank PCBs in hand. I hope to get the assembled betas back in mid January. I'll spend a couple of days testing them. Then, if all is well, I'll send them out to the beta testers for feedback.

I've done some things to clean up or entirely eliminate some long standing issues with 2600 video. All the circuits work individually, but as Longhorn found out with the vertical chroma lines, things don't get truly interesting until everything is plugged together and radiating on the same board. These may ship as the final design, or I may have to tweak some things first. I'll find out in a couple of weeks.

I'm looking for 3-4 beta testers targeting the last week of January for testing. Any volunteers? In particular, I'd like to focus on LCD monitors with composite and s-video inputs or mid- to high-end CRT studio monitors. It's hard to see certain problems on a standard low-res TV/monitor (like those cursed vertical lines). Another thing I'd like to do is run these in a broadcast studio as if the output was going live and needed to be calibrated. I can provide color bars software for the 2600, but I don't have the studio access to do this myself. Any video engineers here?

EDIT:
A minor correction to Glenn's original post. The original "complicated" version of the CyberTech board was able to fit in a 2600 Jr. with some care. But this one (the CyberTech Pro) doesn't support the Jr. Due to the added complexity I wasn't able to accomodate the rotated TIA option on the same board like I did before. If you really want to keep your Jr, if you simply can't live without it, then get the CyberTech Home version. It's much smaller and a little bit cheaper due to the lack of "Pro" features - no image adjustment (contrast, brightness, and saturation) and no audio input mixer. If there is enough interest, I *might* be able to do a board specifically for Jr's. But I would recommend getting a full sized 2600 to run the CyberTech Pro. It's *much* nicer!

-Chris

Hey Chris. I would love to betatest it. I can put it to play on LCD and CRT TV sets I do own. I have three different consoles to install the boards. I have an EE background, so I can provide you with some technical feedback.

[nonner242]

In particular, I'd like to focus on LCD monitors with composite and s-video inputs

37" Poloroid LCD RCA/VGA/COMP/SVIDEO/HDMI/DVI
62" Sony LCD RCA/VGA/COMP/SVIDEO/HDMI/DVI
42" Zenith CRT RCA/SVIDEO/RGB
27" MGA CRT RCA/SVIDEO
21" HP LCD Monitor
2-15"/17" AMIGA CRT Monitors (Used for my Editing with Video Toaster)
21" Gateway CRT Monitor
Plus I have adapters convertjust about any signal to some type of input.

[Albert]

Glad to hear you're working on a new A/V mod!! I'd be glad to test one for you. As you know, I have several of your original mods and they've served me quite well over the years. I have several televisions (Sony 27" CRT, Sony 20" CRT, Samsung 26" LCD HDTV, Panasonic Plasma HDTV) and monitors (Commodore 1702, Dell 24" LCD, Gateway 20" LCD) that I can test on. I'm curious to see how the output looks relative to the original mod.

..Al

[Almost Rice]

I can volunteer. I have a Samsung 22" LCD for my computer that has Svideo and composite inputs. I also have a composite/Svideo to VGA converter and I just picked up a nice 32" Toshiba CRT with Svideo and composite inputs. Additionally I have a few older 20" CRTs with composite inputs and a Commodore 1702.

On the Atari side, I have a Sears Heavy 6 and Sears Video Arcade 2. They are both stock.
If needed, I also have a couple 7800.

Edited by Almost Rice, Thu Jan 1, 2009 9:29 PM.

[mimo]

Happy to do any testing on PAL 2600/7800 if you need it

[Xylosesame]

cwilkson, on Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:13 AM, said:

In particular, I'd like to focus on LCD monitors with composite and s-video inputs or mid- to high-end CRT studio monitors.

Delurking to find an AV mod solution for my 2600A.

I've got a 20.1" NEC 20WMGX2. A bit smaller than what you have listed, but it's an S-IPS panel if you're interested in specific LCD technologies...

[Carpenter]

Any update on this mod, Chris? What's the actual status?

[mos6507]

I'm the one really holding this up. I put the Atari stuff on hold until my daughter finishes the school year which is like a week away. Then I will get cracking on this and AtariVox.

Edited by mos6507, Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:13 PM.

[cwilkson]

mos6507, on Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:13 PM, said:

I'm the one really holding this up. I put the Atari stuff on hold until my daughter finishes the school year which is like a week away. Then I will get cracking on this and AtariVox.

Just to add a little detail. Working prototypes exist, so it's not vaporware. I have an alpha prototype and I sent one to Glenn. There will be a minor board spin and I wanted a second opinion, under the radar, before I finalize the circuits and open it up to beta testing. Clearly Glenn has a lot on his plate and I've been to busy to bug him anyway. But it looks like it may happen soon.

[Nathan Strum]

Looking forward to it!

(I need an excuse to update my mods page anyway. )

[Carpenter]

mos6507, on Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:13 PM, said:

I'm the one really holding this up. I put the Atari stuff on hold until my daughter finishes the school year which is like a week away. Then I will get cracking on this and AtariVox.

cwilkson, on Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:46 AM, said:

mos6507, on Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:13 PM, said:

I'm the one really holding this up. I put the Atari stuff on hold until my daughter finishes the school year which is like a week away. Then I will get cracking on this and AtariVox.

Just to add a little detail. Working prototypes exist, so it's not vaporware. I have an alpha prototype and I sent one to Glenn. There will be a minor board spin and I wanted a second opinion, under the radar, before I finalize the circuits and open it up to beta testing. Clearly Glenn has a lot on his plate and I've been to busy to bug him anyway. But it looks like it may happen soon.

That's great! As I said before, I volunteer to beta test it.

[mimo]

If you want PAL testing, I am happy to help, got a heavy and light sixer.
Can test on Philips 26" LCD, Sense 19" LCD, 32" Sony and LG LCD, Panasonic 42" Plasma. and whatever family/friends and neighbors let me loose on

*oops, forgot I already posted*

Edited by mimo, Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:49 AM.

[JackFlack]

I would love to see a update to the Cybertech 2600 A/V Mod.

Maybe this time you can make it more readily available? And less pricey.

Seems like last time you and the Cybertech went Lost in Space on us.

Chis since this is not vaporware, how about some Pictures and progress report?

I know your first Cybertech Mod took forever to come out, what is your projected release date on this one?

[cwilkson]

JackFlack, on Wed Jul 1, 2009 7:20 AM, said:

I would love to see a update to the Cybertech 2600 A/V Mod.

Maybe this time you can make it more readily available? And less pricey.

Seems like last time you and the Cybertech went Lost in Space on us.

Chis since this is not vaporware, how about some Pictures and progress report?

I know your first Cybertech Mod took forever to come out, what is your projected release date on this one?

It's almost entirely up to Glenn. He has the prototype and I need feedback from him before going forward with the final design. Plus he's getting a "Producer Credit" as they say (= paying for it and making the ordering/delivery machinery run) so really, he gets to set the schedule. All I can do is slow it down by insisting on further tweaks. The good news is if/when it's released it will be both cheaper and easier to find. (those are strangely interrelated BTW).

I can't post any more pictures. I don't have a completed prototype of the CyberTech Pro. I blew mine up by working on it with no sleep. <STUPID> So Glenn has the only one. Right now I'm concentrating on the CyberTech VGA, entering Beta test....RSN. As in the next couple of days. I just completed the second board (these are tough to build sadly) so I may be able to send one to a tester before the end of the week. Here's a thread on that if you're interested.

http://www.atariage....howtopic=145950

[mos6507]

I had to buy another 2600 on Ebay as the two I have now are in disrepair. One of them has an A/V mod hard-soldered to it, but otherwise works. The other one looks to be a dead motherboard. So I'm waiting for the console to arrive before I can test the mod.

[BigO]

mos6507, on Wed Jul 1, 2009 12:09 PM, said:

I had to buy another 2600 on Ebay as the two I have now are in disrepair. One of them has an A/V mod hard-soldered to it, but otherwise works. The other one looks to be a dead motherboard. So I'm waiting for the console to arrive before I can test the mod.

These things always sound good at the beginning and then they fizzle out. What is it about these projects that seem to burn people out? I assume that's what's happened to another supplier since I haven't heard anything in a while and am waiting on something from him.

Anyway, if you find yourself in need of another console and can use a 4 switch just PM me. I've got a few more than I need and can make you a smokin' deal.

[mos6507]

With this and the AtariVox I plan on having pile of inventory built and ready to go before I start taking orders. So nobody is going to have to sit around once I start taking orders. I can handle tying up the overhead. It doesn't have to be just-in-time.

Edited by mos6507, Wed Jul 1, 2009 3:04 PM.

[JackFlack]

To me it sounds like the Cybertech Pro is dead. I don't see this being released any time soon. Deja Vu

mos6507, on Wed Jul 1, 2009 4:03 PM, said:

With this and the AtariVox I plan on having pile of inventory built and ready to go before I start taking orders. So nobody is going to have to sit around once I start taking orders. I can handle tying up the overhead. It doesn't have to be just-in-time.

[BigO]

JackFlack, on Thu Jul 2, 2009 11:40 AM, said:

To me it sounds like the Cybertech Pro is dead. I don't see this being released any time soon. Deja Vu

mos6507, on Wed Jul 1, 2009 4:03 PM, said:

With this and the AtariVox I plan on having pile of inventory built and ready to go before I start taking orders. So nobody is going to have to sit around once I start taking orders. I can handle tying up the overhead. It doesn't have to be just-in-time.

Maybe I'm missing something. I don't understand why you would make that statement, JackFlack. He's actually making an unusually stand-up kinda move here buy investing his own money without taking pre-orders/pre-payments to minimize his risk. The way I read this, he's essentially paying for someone else to develop a product.

I know he attempted to fund and support development of another (really cool) product in the past that didn't come to fruition due to some key players going flakey on him. I suspect he lost money on that deal and yet, he's now doing another project that will benefit the classic gaming community with very little possibility of making him any significant profit in my estimation.

I appreciate the fact that when he says the product is ready for sale, that means that it will be ready for delivery. It might not be soon, but I think it will be real. I suspect (I don't know the guy/gal from Adam) that he has deeper pockets than some of us so can maybe afford to take a risk like this, but I still respect his integrity in the way he chooses to conduct business.

Edited by BigO, Thu Jul 2, 2009 1:04 PM.