730 replies to this topic

[flashjazzcat]

w1k, on Fri Apr 3, 2009 7:41 PM, said:

ok.. how do i make that my buttons in the solution of turning upside down?

If you're using a black light, perhaps you could contrive to place the light source underneath. Far easier, though, to use a thickened "gel" mixture poured over all the keys laid out on a large tray. In the sun, the mixture will thicken up and maintain good coverage for an hour or two before it starts to dry out. However, if you put the tray of keys under some sort of clear covering, even better...

[w1k]

well done, i try it.. tommorow i buy vanish oxi, but how i create gel mixture?

[flashjazzcat]

All the instructions are here:

Retr0Brite Wiki

If you can get the peroxided gel mixture, it's even easier. I went shopping looking for liquid hydrogen peroxide but I came back from the hairdresser's supplier with a "Yellow" branded 40vol 12% bottle of Peroxide gel. Several other people have got hold of the same stuff and it basically removes the need to thicken the peroxide with Xanthan Gum, Cornflower, etc, because it's already thickened. All I did was add the Oxy as a catalyst. Still, if you get liquid hydrogen peroxide, simply follow the instructions on the Wiki: you'll need Glycerine, Xanthan Gum or some other kind of thickener, as well as the Oxy.

[w1k]

30 hydrogen peroxide + vanish (not oxi)

about 2-3 hours:


excellent

ouch

Edited by w1k, Sun Apr 5, 2009 4:27 AM.

[flashjazzcat]

Gloves are the order of the day. Great results, though!

[JellE]

JamesD, on Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:24 AM, said:

Nail polish remover contains Acetone which melts plastic so be careful with it.

They do make non-acetone fingernail polish remover. It is specifically made for fake nails.

[Bryan]

Just tried it on 2 800XL's with 30 vol. developer, a pinch of oxy booster and (a bit too much) xanthan gum. Worked like a charm and both cases were back to factory white within a couple hours. So, the things I've learned:

1. Very little oxy is needed. Put in a pinch before adding the thickener and mix it up.

2. Xanthan gum goes a long way. I made it a little too clumpy. It should be added gradually and stirred in.

3. H2O2 will eat the &$%! out of your hands.

4. Even interior "protected" plastic can exhibit some darkening over time. Digging into the plastic verified that the restored color is correct.

Now, I had a thought about people who are getting splotchy results. Make sure you scrub the plastic with a brush and detergent first. It's possible that residual skin oil or mold release compound from manufacturing will hinder the process.

I also tried it on polycarbonate headlights. The one on the left was treated. It appeared to be less yellow and slightly clearer afterward, although the picture doesn't really show it. The main problem is that the surface becomes pitted and requires polishing. Anyway, I only spent about 45 minutes on the headlights.

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[Bryan]

Today I treated my XF551 and discovered how to screw it up. With my 800XL's, I brushed it on and kept reapplying it as it dried. With the XF551 I put the goop on and covered it with plastic wrap so I could go run errands for an hour. Well, when I took the wrap off, the plastic had turned white and splotchy (permanently). I think the solution is capable of attacking other things in the plastic when sealed in like that. I will be doing all future treatments by hand.

[Bryan]

pic:

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[flashjazzcat]

That's kind of what happened to my ST, and I hadn't wrapped the case in plastic: it had just dried out in the sun and bloomed in much the same way. The only thing you can do is try a Magic Eraser on it. I ended up using acetone on the ST. It was drastic, but it worked. The blooming is confined to a very fine layer of plastic: if you can remove that as gently as possible, it should look much better.

No doubt about it: this treatment requires a lot of care, attention and experimentation, and we're still finding out how different plastics react in different circumstances.

Edited by flashjazzcat, Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:39 AM.

[Bryan]

The sad thing is that I had removed most of the yellow with hand applications before putting the plastic on for an hour. I tried dabbing with nail polish removed and wasn't able to remove it. I might try pure acetone.

I did notice that Magic Eraser dulls the surface of the plastic so it should be used carefully.

[flashjazzcat]

Bryan, on Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:35 PM, said:

I did notice that Magic Eraser dulls the surface of the plastic so it should be used carefully.

This is true. It's a very, very mild abrasive, but this is the only way - apart from using a solvent - to remove the discoloured layer of plastic. The nice thing about the Magic Eraser is that you can actually work the texture of the plastic; I used one to even up the texture of the ST case in those areas where I'd had to use acetone. The result wasn't bad at all, but since doing the ST I've realized it's still far from its original colour.

[Merlin]

Hi guys,

This is why we recommend 10 to 15% strength H2O2 instead of 30% in the Wiki. It takes longer to get results, but you have more control of how far to take the treatment and the low strength should avoid the 'blooming' problem.

[flashjazzcat]

I was using 12% peroxide and I still experienced blooming. Almost certainly down to insufficient care during the treatment, but nevertheless it's worth stating that damage can occur even with the lower volume mixture. Though a brilliant discovery, this is far from a "set it and forget it" treatment. Regular checks and great care are required. It's worth reading the section on potential problems on the Wiki very carefully.

Edited by flashjazzcat, Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:48 PM.

[Bryan]

I was using 30vol developer which I think is 9%. Anyway, I agree that the way to do it is to apply it until all traces of yellow/brown are gone and then stop.

Anyway, I'm very happy that this method was developed. I wonder about adding a UV protectant. What could I spray on that would hold up and look good after 10 years or so? I'm afraid it might do more harm to the appearance than good.

[Merlin]

A decent acrylic lacquer with a UV absorber in it should sort it just about permanently; the lacquer seals the surface off so no oxygen can get to it and the UV absorber converts UV light to heat, so it can't get to the bromine.

Job done.

Edited by Merlin, Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:22 PM.

[Bryan]

The acetone blotting trick worked. I was able to get the back of the drive back to original color, and then I used magic eraser to even out the texture. Thanks fjk.

[mimo]

Merlin, on Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:22 PM, said:

A decent acrylic lacquer with a UV absorber in it should sort it just about permanently; the lacquer seals the surface off so no oxygen can get to it and the UV absorber converts UV light to heat, so it can't get to the bromine.

Job done.

How about a nice coating of Armor all protectant on a regular basis?

[Stephen]

mimo, on Sun May 3, 2009 8:14 AM, said:

Merlin, on Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:22 PM, said:

A decent acrylic lacquer with a UV absorber in it should sort it just about permanently; the lacquer seals the surface off so no oxygen can get to it and the UV absorber converts UV light to heat, so it can't get to the bromine.

Job done.

How about a nice coating of Armor all protectant on a regular basis?

LMAO - can someone please explain to me how the ArmorAll thing got started over here? I know it's been a long standing joke for many years now, but I never did know what started it. Was it something in the 2600 forum?

Stephen Anderson

[mellis]

I have just completed applying the retr0bright process to my Atari 800XL.

I used Merlin's recipe (40vol. H2O2, Xanthan Gum, Glycerin, Oxy) and the UV source was a 15W UV light for use in a reptile terrarium. The process took a long time. I started it at 5:00PM on Sunday, and I wasn't satisfied until about 8:00PM Tuesday. So after 51 hours of constant UV exposure and repeated retr0bright applications, I am thrilled with the results.

Some notes:
1. I decided to use a UV bulb instead of the sun in order to avoid the drying and associated issues that have been reported.
2. I found that rinsing and reapplying every eight hours works much better than just caking on repeated applications of the retr0bright gel.
3. Using a UV bulb, I had no issues with the dried gel or bleaching, but perhaps using a bulb slowed the process somewhat.
4. It takes a long time.

Here are some pictures:

A. The 800XL before treatment. It has severe yellowing on the side opposite the 800XL badge. It also has profound yellowing along its front edge below the space bar. Also, the key caps are noticeably yellow.




B. Being treated after about 3.75 hours.


C. After about 17.5 hours. Notice the profound yellowing along the front edge of the bottom case.


D. After about 21.5 hours.


E. Completed and reassembled after 51 hours. I've included the 800XL's box in the photo so its color can be compared to the image on the packaging. Notice the nice white lettering on the key caps!






So that's my retr0bright success story. I am very pleased with the results.

It's amazing how beautiful the XL line is when presented in its true color.

[flashjazzcat]

Looks superb. I agree that the XL is quite a beautiful sight when mint. Your description and photos really prove that patience is the key to success with this process. If I did it again, I'd use a UV lamp as well. What's interesting is that quite a long way into the procedure, the yellow areas still looked really bad. Obviously perseverance paid off here, and you avoided all of the pitfalls by taking things slowly. An excellent job.

[mellis]

flashjazzcat, on Wed May 6, 2009 1:51 PM, said:

Looks superb. I agree that the XL is quite a beautiful sight when mint. Your description and photos really prove that patience is the key to success with this process. If I did it again, I'd use a UV lamp as well. What's interesting is that quite a long way into the procedure, the yellow areas still looked really bad. Obviously perseverance paid off here, and you avoided all of the pitfalls by taking things slowly. An excellent job.

Thanks for your kind words. Indeed, perseverance was key during this procedure. After about a day, I began to wonder if the machine was too far gone to benefit from the treatment.

There are a couple of things I forgot to mention:
1) For good measure, I ran the completed case (post 51 hours) through the dishwasher (with heated dry disabled) to eliminate all traces of retr0bright gel.
2) I masked the 800XL badge with Glad Press-n-Seal wrap. That's a sticky plastic wrap that they sell here in the states. This kept the retr0bright from possibly etching that nice metal badge.

I have an ST I'd like to do next, but I'll have to wait until the wife isn't around to do it

[Merlin]

@ mellis

That is a textbook case of how to do it. OK, it took longer than my tests, but remember I used 35% H2O2 which you can't get over the counter and I wouldn't advocate anyone using that strength. You have proved that some quite severe yellowing can be treated and reversed without causing blooming.

Well done!!

Edited by Merlin, Sat May 9, 2009 12:02 PM.

[mellis]

Merlin, on Sat May 9, 2009 2:01 PM, said:

@ mellis

That is a textbook case of how to do it. OK, it took longer than my tests, but remember I used 35% H2O2 which you can't get over the counter and I wouldn't advocate anyone using that strength. You have proved that some quite severe yellowing can be treated and reversed without causing blooming.

Well done!!

Thanks goes to you, Merlin, for working so hard on developing this process.

I followed your recipe to the best of my ability, but I did have to make one substitution. Instead of Glycerin USP liquid, I had to use a glycerin suppository that I dissolved in the solution. In the states, Glycerin liquid has been banned from all pharmacies due to its role in creating homemade explosives. Whatever your opinion of that policy might be, Glycerin suppositories are still readily available. Each suppository seemed to have the correct amount of glycerin in it, so I ran with it.

[Merlin]

Well, I'm glad you found the glycerin; the source is somewhat interesting though.... *cough* LOL

I'm just really pleased that so many people have taken to this World-wide; people are out there cleaning Transformer toys, old telephones, Lego bricks, Airstream caravan trims, vintage radios, classic car parts, the list goes on and on....people have finally gone from being skeptical about this to actually using it and proving it to themselves. Our hard work has finally paid off.

I usually Google Retr0bright once a week or so, just to see what's going on. I am amazed that the Wiki still gets over 500 hits a day and has logged nearly 124,000 hits!!

Retr0bright also made it into Retro Action magazine Issue 2, which was released today. Cool!!

http://www.retroacti...ne.com/magazine

Edited by Merlin, Mon May 11, 2009 3:30 PM.