672 replies to this topic

[mimo]

wgungfu, on Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:15 PM, said:

Preppie!!, on Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:07 PM, said:

a 500ml batch that I did treated both halves of an ST, a 65XE a 1050 and two keyboards, re-coating every 15-20 minutes over a 5 hour period.I re-applied often as I was doing it in the garden at the height of summer, no "blooming" though. I say re-coating, really you don't add much more, just move around the wet stuff making sure you have an even application. I have also made up smaller quantities and still added 1/4 t-spoon of TAED ( I have some pure TAED:D)

Ok, so it's spread around every 15-20 minutes, wash off and completely reapply every 2 hours?

yep, that's it. The washing off is just for checking how far you have got, you could just leave it for 4/6/12 hours as long as everything is wet.
You get more of an idea how long to leave things when you have done it a time or two.
If you are worried it might be a good idea to have a go on something not too valuable first, an 800xl or a 1050 if you have one lying round.
Also badges/decals seem to be unaffected by the process, but I try and avoid paining them. Metal parts can get attacked by the chemicals so shoud be removed. I killed an 800xl cart flap the first time I did it (using the old soak it in a bath of peroxide method)

[Retro Rogue]

Preppie!!, on Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:23 PM, said:

yep, that's it. The washing off is just for checking how far you have got, you could just leave it for 4/6/12 hours as long as everything is wet.
You get more of an idea how long to leave things when you have done it a time or two.
If you are worried it might be a good idea to have a go on something not too valuable first, an 800xl or a 1050 if you have one lying round.
Also badges/decals seem to be unaffected by the process, but I try and avoid paining them. Metal parts can get attacked by the chemicals so shoud be removed. I killed an 800xl cart flap the first time I did it (using the old soak it in a bath of peroxide method)

Ok, thanks. That's actually one of my next things - this Bally was left out in a garage for a long time it looks like, the metal shielding and some other parts started rusting. Want to try and find away to remove it.

[wood_jl]

I forgot to say.... I just mixed up small quantities of this at a time - about 6oz (or less) because I only did 1/2 of a computer case at a time. That is, I did JUST the 800XL top half, then when I was done with that, moved to the bottom half. I couldn't see mixing up 500ml of stuff at a time, as I couldn't treat more than 1/2 computer at a time as my light was small.

Be sure and post some pics (before and after) of your stuff you're working on; it's fun to vicariously share in other's de-yellowing pleasures!

[flashjazzcat]

I used to have trouble with blooming when leaving parts under the sun in the garden (usually because of the part drying out in the breeze). Recently, I've taken to leaving cases and keyboards on the back bedroom windowsill, which gets the sun most of the day. I've had no drying out problems at all.

[Draikar]

Would this work for the Famicom ?

[Retro Rogue]

wood_jl, on Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:40 PM, said:

I forgot to say.... I just mixed up small quantities of this at a time - about 6oz (or less) because I only did 1/2 of a computer case at a time. That is, I did JUST the 800XL top half, then when I was done with that, moved to the bottom half. I couldn't see mixing up 500ml of stuff at a time, as I couldn't treat more than 1/2 computer at a time as my light was small.

Be sure and post some pics (before and after) of your stuff you're working on; it's fun to vicariously share in other's de-yellowing pleasures!

What did you ratio the glycerin to for the 6 oz then? I'm using the Sally Maximum Lift 40 vol Cream with it.

Did it for 6 hours with spreading after every half hour and a complete wash off and reapplication every 2 hours. Nowhere near done. I'm thinking the 18" UVB light isn't enough to hit the entire top (all the surfaces), and I'm starting to place it for two hours on each face. Probably will invest in a second 18" light in the future so I can cover it more completely (one on each side).

[mimo]

Draikar, on Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:59 PM, said:

Would this work for the Famicom ?

yep, anything plasic that has yellowed.
I even did the steering wheel from my 1966 VW Beetle:D

[mimo]

wgungfu, on Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:45 PM, said:

wood_jl, on Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:40 PM, said:

I forgot to say.... I just mixed up small quantities of this at a time - about 6oz (or less) because I only did 1/2 of a computer case at a time. That is, I did JUST the 800XL top half, then when I was done with that, moved to the bottom half. I couldn't see mixing up 500ml of stuff at a time, as I couldn't treat more than 1/2 computer at a time as my light was small.

Be sure and post some pics (before and after) of your stuff you're working on; it's fun to vicariously share in other's de-yellowing pleasures!

What did you ratio the glycerin to for the 6 oz then? I'm using the Sally Maximum Lift 40 vol Cream with it.

Did it for 6 hours with spreading after every half hour and a complete wash off and reapplication every 2 hours. Nowhere near done. I'm thinking the 18" UVB light isn't enough to hit the entire top (all the surfaces), and I'm starting to place it for two hours on each face. Probably will invest in a second 18" light in the future so I can cover it more completely (one on each side).

but are you seeing any improvement?
and if it is being stubborn you can easily leave it for 4 or 6 hours between washing, the key is to not let it dry out

[Retro Rogue]

Preppie!!, on Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:28 PM, said:

but are you seeing any improvement?
and if it is being stubborn you can easily leave it for 4 or 6 hours between washing, the key is to not let it dry out

Yes, I'm seeing some improvement. Regarding drying out, I'm doing this indoors with the UVB light as I mentioned. I think that lessens that risk considerably.

[wood_jl]

wgungfu, on Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:45 PM, said:

wood_jl, on Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:40 PM, said:

I forgot to say.... I just mixed up small quantities of this at a time - about 6oz (or less) because I only did 1/2 of a computer case at a time. That is, I did JUST the 800XL top half, then when I was done with that, moved to the bottom half. I couldn't see mixing up 500ml of stuff at a time, as I couldn't treat more than 1/2 computer at a time as my light was small.

Be sure and post some pics (before and after) of your stuff you're working on; it's fun to vicariously share in other's de-yellowing pleasures!

What did you ratio the glycerin to for the 6 oz then? I'm using the Sally Maximum Lift 40 vol Cream with it.

Did it for 6 hours with spreading after every half hour and a complete wash off and reapplication every 2 hours. Nowhere near done. I'm thinking the 18" UVB light isn't enough to hit the entire top (all the surfaces), and I'm starting to place it for two hours on each face. Probably will invest in a second 18" light in the future so I can cover it more completely (one on each side).

I'm kind of ashamed to admit this, but at first I was going to scale down the quantities from 500ml to my *roughly* 6oz.....but I got kind of carefree with it. I just kind of did it like "Gramma's Kitchen" - poured 4 to 6 ounces of the Cream Peroxide into a short drinking glass, then just gave "a little squirt" of glycerin, then "a little sprinkle" of Oxyclean, then mixed it up with a screwdriver and slapped it on the computers as thick as I could get it with the paintbrush. I know this sounds like sloppy, amateur shit, but since these were white computers, I wasn't too worried about overdoing it. It worked!

When I try something colored, I will pay closer attention to everything. Now I don't see/remember the original formula, but just keep it proportional when you scale down your glycerin (and Oxyclean stuff). Be careful if you're doing colored stuff, though!! I have read somewhere (maybe in this thread?) that some of the chemical-minded people (Merlin?) think there's some stuff in the creme hair preparation (like we both use) that can contribute to "blooming." Personally, I don't know what else to use since I can't get Arrowroot or Xanthan gum around here. I suppose with ENOUGH looking, maybe I can find it. But for the white computers, my sloppy/carefree methods and the hair stuff worked perfectly!

[Merlin]

Yes, that's it.

Edited by Merlin, Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:14 AM.

[Retro Rogue]

Well, the section by section method is getting better results. I also added a tin foil sheet (Reynolds Wrap) over the top like a cover - i.e. the light is elevated and on the side of the cover, I attach one side of the sheet to the light and let it drape over to the far side of the unit. Keeps the light trapped around the Bally cover, almost like one of those solar cookers.

As far as measuring out, what I did is just make the full peroxide/glycerin mixture in a small paint can, then poor a bit in to a plastic cup and add the oxy. So that process can be done as needed, and made more sense then trying to figure out a ratio with the glycerin.

BTW - does anyone know of a similar method now to get rid of rust? The metal shielding and some of the screws from this unit were starting to rust, looks like someone had this out in their garage for a while.

Edited by wgungfu, Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:57 AM.

[Zapf]

I got all the stuff for the original recipe yesterday, but I just realized I have 3% hydrogen peroxide - any idea how I might need to modify the recipe to make up for this? more oxy per hydrogen peroxide? Am I just screwed?

[flashjazzcat]

I long ago abandoned the original recipe in favour of 40 vol creme peroxide with no additions whatsoever. I'd advise against more OXY, though: when I used to add it (and I don't now), I tended to put in too much and it caused blooming. Nearly ruined an ST that way. I can imagine 3% peroxide might work, albeit agonisingly slowly.

I'm just waiting for a few hours of sun. When I was at work last week, every morning there was sun pouring in through the window. Now I'm at home, it's dull all the time. I have another XE case and keyboard waiting to be done!

[wood_jl]

wgungfu, on Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:56 AM, said:

BTW - does anyone know of a similar method now to get rid of rust? The metal shielding and some of the screws from this unit were starting to rust, looks like someone had this out in their garage for a while.

I have always wanted to try the electrolysis methods of rust removal. I have NOT tried this yet, but it looks like it would be the most non-destructive method there is.

Check out these Youtube videos of the process; you can likely draw from a more technical source, but this should pique your interest!!


This one uses Baking Soda



This one uses Arm and Hammer Washing Soda (I think it is sodium carbonate aka "soda ash")


I can not find the video that I am thinking of. It was from a 4x4 or truck/gearhead show; they used "20-mule-team Borax" which I think is sodium borate. You should try and find info on that one.

Unlike these videos I have linked to, the one I am thinking of used a metal bucket (on non-conductive floor) and had one battery charger clamp on the metal pan, and the other on the metal part to be de-rusted - so you didn't have to make electrodes - but you had to be careful to tie up/suspend the de-rusting part so it did not contact the sides/bottom of the pan but was only suspended in the water. The part sticking out of the water (with the battery charger clamp on it) would have to be done in a second session, where you turn the part over. I wish I could find this video; it was the first one I had seen but it has been some time. The Borax would likely be found easily; I don't remember black oxide coating in that video but I can't say for sure.

Please don't take what I say here literally; I have not done this, and I'm not sure about those chemical names - I just wanted to give you some ideas that sound interesting. When you get some *real* info and if you try this, I would be MOST interested in seeing/hearing about your results. I would like to try this but I don't have anything rusty at the moment!!!

[mimo]

Zapf, on Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:45 PM, said:

I got all the stuff for the original recipe yesterday, but I just realized I have 3% hydrogen peroxide - any idea how I might need to modify the recipe to make up for this? more oxy per hydrogen peroxide? Am I just screwed?

screwed, sorry.
Don't add more oxy that is asking for trouble. 40 vol is cheap so just cut your losses and get some of the good stuff

[Zapf]

I actually found a link of a guy using a 3% mix that worked wonders on his old apple computer. It was a cornstarched thickened gel though, and his recipe calls for a 1/4 teaspoon of oxy for every 50ml instead of 500, which seemed kinda extreme. I left a blacklight on it while the experiment resides in the water room - its my shittier snes anyway, so if it damages it, I wont be too disappointed.

http://www.flickr.co...N00/3822230561/

Edited by Zapf, Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:08 PM.

[Zapf]

Cool, he replied to my comment on the picture

Quote

It is no mistake. Now consider this. On the original recipe, they recommend higher concentrations of H202. Since anything stronger than 3% H202 is expensive and hard to come by, I decided to use the normal drug store 3% H202 along with extra OxiClean. The end result is the same, since OxiClean merely boosts the H202 content of the overall mix (this has been discussed on the 68kMLA. But the side benefit of using less powerful H202 and more OxiClean is that you will avoid "blooming" (white streaks after deyellowing that won't go away because you used too much pure H202 and damaged the plastics as a result).

So my mix is safer and cheaper than the original recipe. And by the way, I was not the first to use this recipe. Another member of the 68kMLA tried it first. In fact, he used even lower concentrations of H202 than I did (sometimes diluting it down to 1% with water) simply because he didn't want to waste so much H202.

You don't simply need to trust my recipe on "faith." My photos are the evidence that it works, and again, my work was built upon another who also used lower concentrations of H202 and more OxiClean.

OxiClean alone will not work though. Neither will OxiClean and H202 in a dark room. You need all 3: UV Light, H202 and OxiClean. And so long as you use low concentrations of H202, boosting the OxiClean content to the level shown in my recipe will not harm anything.

[Retro Rogue]

Ok, here's the results of the Bally Computer case with before and afters.





Below is a closeup of the side shot of the side of the unit shown in the last photo above, so you can see what happened with the discoloring pattern. If you look at the before shot above, you'll see that the Bally had an uneven yellowing in a swirling shape there to begin with. The back had uneven yellowing as well, but it unyellowed evenly. This side and a portion inside the controller storage area with the swirls/oblong shapes did not. This leads me to believe that maybe those splotches were caused by something else, probably some other chemical (that's a gold paint splotch on the back of the side pick, so I'm guessing this was stored in a garage or somewhere and had stuff get on it over the years).



Here's the setup I used for indoors then, using tin foil to keep the UVB light source reflecting back at the unit.

[mimo]

great results:thumbsup:

[wood_jl]

Hey wgungfu - did you get the rust out and get that thing back together? How about some "after" pictures of that stuff reassembled? You know we love to see that stuff!

[flashjazzcat]

This arrived in the post today and the keyboard was covered in peroxide within five seconds of the sun first showing its face:



Actually the sun wasn't out long, and the top of the keyboard casing could do with a touch longer (it's a couple of shades darker than the bottom). The rest really does seem close to the original colour, however, as the inside of the casing is just the same as the outside (actually it seems closer to the colour of my XF551 than any of my other XE stuff). The mainboard case just needed a wash with a toothbrush to get the grime out. The keys are actually "borrowed" from a 65XE, because those on the XEGS were severely yellowed and will require several more hours' treatment.

I love it, though: my first XEGS.

Edited by flashjazzcat, Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:53 PM.

[Tempest]

Ok I'm finally getting around to doing this (and only a year late). I made the mixture tonight and applied it to my yellow Mac Classic which is now chilling in the basement under a UV light. My only concern is that when I made the mixture is wasn't 100% smooth and had some 'globs' in it but I don't know if that's normal or not. It spread on nicely enough with a little paintbrush though so we'll see.

I also didn't see the bit about letting the mixture cool before adding the Oxy so I hope it still works.

EDIT: Ok my mixture looked like it does in these pictures so I guess I'm ok: Other Mixture

Tempest

[Retro Rogue]

wood_jl, on Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:50 PM, said:

Hey wgungfu - did you get the rust out and get that thing back together? How about some "after" pictures of that stuff reassembled? You know we love to see that stuff!

No, haven't had time to do the rust yet. I'll post pics when I do.

[Retro Rogue]

Tempest, on Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:35 PM, said:

Ok I'm finally getting around to doing this (and only a year late). I made the mixture tonight and applied it to my yellow Mac Classic which is now chilling in the basement under a UV light. My only concern is that when I made the mixture is wasn't 100% smooth and had some 'globs' in it but I don't know if that's normal or not. It spread on nicely enough with a little paintbrush though so we'll see.

I also didn't see the bit about letting the mixture cool before adding the Oxy so I hope it still works.

EDIT: Ok my mixture looked like it does in these pictures so I guess I'm ok: Other Mixture

Tempest

Make sure and reapply or re-spread it around every hour and a half or so. Also, if you're going to do the keyboard as well - after my experience doing the keys on my Apple III, I'm firmly convinced the best solution for keyboard keys is to remove them and set them in a container full of the liquid version of the mixture. It's to hard to spread and reach all 5 faces of every single key evenly, and I wound up with some blooming. The liquid version will of course do that much easier.