tezza Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Sounds interesting if it is already in the form of a gel. Do you have a junk case you could try this cream on? Tez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds-kool gamer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 @ AndyR @ tezza @ Merlin @ Guitarman Hi guys, Well I'm back with a progress update, as before the same mix:- Materials used 3/4 cup Peroxide @12%, 1xTbs Arrowroot, I x TeSp Glycerin, 1/4 TeSp Oxy Original condition C64 (Looking very sad) C64 4 treatments later. C64 4 treatments later (better lighting) This was achieved with another 3-4 hours yesterday (direct sunshine) and today for approx 4-5 (direct sunshine) Well I must say I'm somewhat pleased with the results. It's not 100% but it's very close. I think Merlin may be right 12% Peroxide for a C64 might be a bit weak but as you can see it isn't bad. Still not confident to do any of my Atari's yet but there not really yellowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 That's my Boy!! Well done!! See, all you needed to have was a little faith....that looks just like my C64, now that I've treated the other half. When it comes to flame retardants, the treatment level could be as high as 15% and I think Commodore went right over the top with the amount in the C64 cases. I am uber-chuffed for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Oops, double post.......... Edited February 21, 2009 by Merlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds-kool gamer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 That's my Boy!! Well done!! See, all you needed to have was a little faith....that looks just like my C64, now that I've treated the other half. When it comes to flame retardants, the treatment level could be as high as 15% and I think Commodore went right over the top with the amount in the C64 cases. I am uber-chuffed for you. Hello Merlin, Cheers for that mate… It took quite a lot of work and I think it still could do with another go. I think I'll try and get hold of some stronger Peroxide. Luckily my Nephew has a trade account with a Salon supplier. I only paid £1.88 for a 1ltr bottle of Peroxide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezza Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Well done, Looks like a pretty good result to me. Similar to what I found with my Atari 130XE. How did you get on with the Arrowroot recipe? Did you find it thickened up enough this time with some heating? From memory I think others use glycerine to help smooth out the lumps from Xanatan gum? I found with the arrowroot , providing you mixed it well (and broke up any lumps) before heating you didn't need glycerine. Personally I wouldn't go for higher concentration peroxide, unless you are going to dilute it. It may be a trade off between peroxide strength and time, but lower conc. peroxide is far safer. My treatments worked well at 6%. H2O2. Tez Tez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds-kool gamer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Well done, Looks like a pretty good result to me. Similar to what I found with my Atari 130XE. How did you get on with the Arrowroot recipe? Did you find it thickened up enough this time with some heating? From memory I think others use glycerine to help smooth out the lumps from Xanatan gum? I found with the arrowroot , providing you mixed it well (and broke up any lumps) before heating you didn't need glycerine. Personally I wouldn't go for higher concentration peroxide, unless you are going to dilute it. It may be a trade off between peroxide strength and time, but lower conc. peroxide is far safer. My treatments worked well at 6%. H2O2. Tez Hello Tez, I basically followed your recipe from your Blog but with 12% Peroxide. I had already bought the Glycerine so I thought id use it up, once it's gone I won't buy anymore. Mixed it all up using the above materials 3/4 cup Peroxide 12% about 4 x heaped Teaspoons of Arrowroot, 1 xTeaspoon of Glycerine, microwaved it for about 45-60 secs @750W. Gave it a good stir every 20 seconds or so. Then added 1/4 teaspoon of Oxy. I never had any lumps at all with Arrowroot and the consistency was like think wallpaper paste. One thing I did notice, I got absolutely no reaction when I added the Oxy, It did not foam up or react at all. Re: Stronger Peroxide. I agree it may be detrimental to use a higher volume but going in and out of the back garden to re-apply the paste has proven quite labour intensive. I may leave it @ 12% and just go out and buy a UV Bulb instead. Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezza Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Thanks for that feedback. One thing I did notice, I got absolutely no reaction when I added the Oxy, It did not foam up or react at all. Interesting. With 6% I got a mild foaming (you can see it in the Vic blog post). One other person over at the Vintage Computer Forums who did this with 12% said it foamed a lot..so much so it spilled over the side of the container. Hence Merlin's warning about foaming on the wiki. I think he might have overheated the mixture though and it was very hot. He had a 1000W microwave and it's diffcult to get the timing right, especially with just a small amount of liquid. One thing I did was to stir the mixture fairly vigourously after I added the Oxi, just to make sure it was well-distributed in the paste. Did you do this? If this wasn't done, perhaps it doesn't foam much. Alternatively, perhaps the glycerine has an anti-foam effect? Re: Stronger Peroxide. I agree it may be detrimental to use a higher volume but going in and out of the back garden to re-apply the paste has proven quite labour intensive. I may leave it @ 12% and just go out and buy a UV Bulb instead. Yes, I agree re-application due to drying out is a pain, and if I had had a blacklight I would have used that. I found that even though my units spent a lot of time "dry" during the process it still worked! (The paste dried in about 30 mins but I generally only re-applied 4x a day or so). I can only conclude either the thirty minutes at the time the units were wet under the strong UV we have here was enough bursts at a time, or the reaction continued under the dried flakes (probably the latter). But yea, using the sun is the el-chepo option and I would only recommend it if people had a very small number of cases, and didn't want to buy a blacklight for a one-off use. Tez Edited February 21, 2009 by tezza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 @ Tezza / OldSkoolGamer I used 'Vanish Oxy Action Ultra' which may have more surfactants and detergents in it than the grade you guys used; If I use neat TAED, it doesn't foam up much, however, you will always get some foaming as the thick gel doesn't release air very quickly and the TAED is catalysing the peroxide, remember. Personally, I think that adding less Oxy is a good thing, as it keeps the reaction on the slower side, which will minimise the possible bleaching of the polymer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds-kool gamer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 One thing I did was to stir the mixture fairly vigourously after I added the Oxi, just to make sure it was well-distributed in the paste. Did you do this? If this wasn't done, perhaps it doesn't foam much. Alternatively, perhaps the glycerine has an anti-foam effect? Yes, it was mixed very well, although I had to dilute it first in a little bit of water, as initially the Oxy did not dissolve in the paste at all, no matter how long I mixed it. I'll leave out the Glycerine next time and see what happens, although I may need to buy a better brand of Oxy as this was a Tesco "cheapo version" for about £1.70. The better brands where about £5 plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds-kool gamer Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) @ Merlin As I just mentioned to Tez I may buy a better brand of Oxy although I'm getting results with what I'm using just slower than I hoped for. So can I conclude from the above statement that in some cases some "Bleaching may / will happen?" Edited February 21, 2009 by Olds-kool gamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) No, don't read too much into that statement; What I mean is that keeping the Oxy to the minimum will minimise the risk, nothing more. Temperature and peroxide concentration have more to do with bleaching of the polymer than the amount of Oxy. Just be aware that we are using the Oxy to enable the reaction to favour the bromine instead of the polymer, so less is more, if you follow me. Edited February 21, 2009 by Merlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezza Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) One thing I did was to stir the mixture fairly vigourously after I added the Oxi, just to make sure it was well-distributed in the paste. Did you do this? If this wasn't done, perhaps it doesn't foam much. Alternatively, perhaps the glycerine has an anti-foam effect? Yes, it was mixed very well, although I had to dilute it first in a little bit of water, as initially the Oxy did not dissolve in the paste at all, no matter how long I mixed it. I'll leave out the Glycerine next time and see what happens, although I may need to buy a better brand of Oxy as this was a Tesco "cheapo version" for about £1.70. The better brands where about £5 plus. Hmm..interesting. I stirred it quite vigourously when I added the Oxi. I used 2 heaped tablespoons to get a really thick paste, and stirring after it had formed (i.e. after heating) helped thin it a little as well as to thouroughly mix in the Oxi. I found the Oxi didn't so much dissolve (as you'd see it dissolve if it was in water), but the mixture started to lighten up a little. Become light and frothy, and in fact it was impossible to see into it to see if Oxi lumps where there or not. I only used a tiny bit of Oxi. About 1/5 of a teaspoon. Strange that you didn't get any kind of reaction? I guess there are different brands of Oxi as you say, and maybe the glycerine also had an effect. The good thing is that it worked, regardless! Tez Edited February 21, 2009 by tezza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezza Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 ...I stirred it quite vigourously when I added the Oxi. I used 2 heaped tablespoons to get a really thick paste, and ... Just to make it clear, in the sentence above I'm talking about 2 heaped tablespoons of Arrowroot prior to heating , NOT two tablespoons of Oxi. As I re-read it it struck me it could be ambigious. I just used a pinch of Oxi-magic Tez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Great thread, and this method is great news for collectors. I've updated my article on plastics yellowing to include this option (someone mentioned it earlier in this thread). http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/189 --Benj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds-kool gamer Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Great thread, and this method is great news for collectors. I've updated my article on plastics yellowing to include this option (someone mentioned it earlier in this thread). http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/189 --Benj Hello RedWolf And welcome to the forum. That was an excellent read and much appreciated. I've got some badly Yellowed Pal Snes's if I get a chance I'll give them the Retr0-Bright treatment and post my results up for all to see. B regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 @ all One thing Tezza and Lorne over at VCF found is that cleaning plastic is addictive; Once you get one item looking totally original, it makes the rest look tatty and you get hooked. It looks like OldSkoolGamer has also been bitten by the bug... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds-kool gamer Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 @ all One thing Tezza and Lorne over at VCF found is that cleaning plastic is addictive; Once you get one item looking totally original, it makes the rest look tatty and you get hooked. It looks like OldSkoolGamer has also been bitten by the bug... Hi Merlin, Problem with me is I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to my collection. I seem to have acquired quite a few Retro Computers / consoles over the years. I think I've got over 40 individual 8 bit & 16 bit Computers and too many consoles to mention. I normally shy away from Yellowed stuff but the few bits I do own will have to get the Retr0-Bright treatment (it would be rude not to) B regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaXKiLLz Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 C64 4 treatments later (better lighting) What I'm not satisfied with is the patchy results. It's not a smooth even color like when it was new. That's what concerns me about doing any other de-yellowing projects. I want an even tone as the end result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds-kool gamer Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 C64 4 treatments later (better lighting) What I'm not satisfied with is the patchy results. It's not a smooth even color like when it was new. That's what concerns me about doing any other de-yellowing projects. I want an even tone as the end result. Hi, Yes you’re absolutely right, I too was hoping for a more even colour finish and this has taken 4 attempts thus far. I still think it looks a lot better than the yellow abomination (see a few posts up) but nowhere near as nice as I was hoping for. I will give it another go but I would recommend caution. I did a Commodore C2N Cassette Deck and I was more than happy. So for whiter plastic I think you’re OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I've updated the Wiki with a bit more explanation in the UV energy section about how the Bromine gets destabilised and forms co-ordinate bonds, with some pictures included to help explain what I mean by this. It should be fairly easy reading for non-science folk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Help! A French forum at system-cfg.com has made contact and they are working on cleaning their retro kit. I am trying to help as best I can but my French isn't 100% by a long way. Is there anyone on here that could help me translate the Wiki into French? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 That was an excellent read and much appreciated.I've got some badly Yellowed Pal Snes's if I get a chance I'll give them the Retr0-Bright treatment and post my results up for all to see. That would be wonderful. I'd love to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Same here; that would close off RedWolf's blog absolutely perfectly. Edit: Stop Press!! I've found Eastofeastside's results - here's the pictures, be impressed!!! I hope I'm not stealing his thunder. It took him ten days using 3% peroxide, but what a result!! Edited February 26, 2009 by Merlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds-kool gamer Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 That was an excellent read and much appreciated.I've got some badly Yellowed Pal Snes's if I get a chance I'll give them the Retr0-Bright treatment and post my results up for all to see. That would be wonderful. I'd love to see it. Hi, As soon as I said that the sun went in and we haven’t had a proper sunny day since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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