Very Unusual Atari 130XE on Ebay, experts please examine

[Mark Wolfe]

I'd like to hear from the experts out there regarding what you think is attached to this very unique auction that looks to be from the television industry for an Atari 130XE

 

it "looks" like there is a special video board attached to give it broadcast quality RGB video and I imagine a custom power supply but what else and to what degree? The guy has over 10 left and has sold more than 10 from "best offers" .

 

Does anyone know what the guy will accept as a low offer? Has anyone here bought one? I think I might want one and I have a feeling that the video upgrade alone might be worth the cost.

 

just a hunch

 

-MW

 

edit: I should mention I sent him a message through ebay asking if he could fire it up and take some screenshots and asked if there was any software booting when it was fired up but I've gotten no response now after more than 24hrs

Edited February 4, 2009 by Mark_Wolfe

[charliecron]

Have a look here...

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...p;hl=130xe+rack

[UNIXcoffee928]

I saw one of these once before on ebay.

 

It is odd, when you apply additional zooming to the pic, the bottom half of the case isn't there, the case is cracked in the lower right side, from being clamped down into the blue rack enclosure, and the SIO plug is GLUED in place with what appears to be messy bathtub caulking. I would mention these things when haggling.

 

The bus board has two ICs and does not appear to connect to anything externally. The video cable appears to only go to one BNC connector, so I don't think that it's RGB, but I don't know if that board hooked up to the SIO port is hooked into the other two BNCs.

 

Warerat and Metalguy66 can probably give you some educated guesses as to the function of the board hooked into the SIO port.

 

Looks like it would be neat to mess around with, if you get a very good deal on it.

Edited February 4, 2009 by UNIXcoffee928

[Mark Wolfe]

I saw one of these once before on ebay.

 

It is odd, when you apply additional zooming to the pic, the bottom half of the case isn't there, the case is cracked in the lower right side, from being clamped down into the blue rack enclosure, and the SIO plug is GLUED in place with what appears to be messy bathtub caulking. I would mention these things when haggling.

 

The external bus board has two ICs and does not appear to connect to anything externally. The video cable appears to only go to one BNC connector, so I don't think that it's RGB, but I don't know if that board hooked up to the SIO port is hooked into the other two BNCs.

 

Warerat and Metalguy66 can probably give you some educated guesses as to the function of the board hooked into the SIO port.

 

Looks like it would be neat to mess around with, if you get a very good deal on it.

 

 

I messed up with this thread because there is one with tons of pictures here:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...p;hl=130xe+rack

 

lots of descriptions and I think more speculation and confirmation is required. I think I'm going to buy one

[MEtalGuy66]

My personal oppinion is that it was probably only involved in the time-scheduled switching in/out (and/or dedicated control) of other more capable equipment.. Nothing an atari 8-bit can generate via it's own video hardware is even close to "broadcast quality." even by early 80s standards..

 

Judging by how many have appeared on Ebay though, I'd say that it's at the very least another good example of a nich-application that the ATARI was able to fill quite well.. Some professional studio gear company actually sold quite a few of those particular "rigs". Regardless of what its exact function was, you can bet it was ALOT cheaper than any stand-alone device that was designed from the ground-up for that specific purpose.. I bet the company that sold them made a huge profit..

Edited February 4, 2009 by MEtalGuy66

[Mark Wolfe]

My personal oppinion is that it was probably only involved in the time-scheduled switching in/out (and/or dedicated control) of other more capable equipment.. Nothing an atari 8-bit can generate via it's own video hardware is even close to "broadcast quality." even by early 80s standards..

 

Judging by how many have appeared on Ebay though, I'd say that it's at the very least another good example of a nich-application that the ATARI was able to fill quite well.. Some professional studio gear company actually sold quite a few of those particular "rigs". Regardless of what its exact function was, you can bet it was ALOT cheaper than any stand-alone device that was designed from the ground-up for that specific purpose.. I bet the company that sold them made a huge profit..

 

so you're saying the video connections were not used to upgrade the signal? perhaps just made easier with the BNC connector.

 

I just bought one after I made an offer, which was accepted right away. far less than if I were to buy a used 130XE, at least from what I have seen in prices recently where one in the box is going for $200 and another used one sold for over $100.

[MEtalGuy66]

My personal oppinion is that it was probably only involved in the time-scheduled switching in/out (and/or dedicated control) of other more capable equipment.. Nothing an atari 8-bit can generate via it's own video hardware is even close to "broadcast quality." even by early 80s standards..

 

Judging by how many have appeared on Ebay though, I'd say that it's at the very least another good example of a nich-application that the ATARI was able to fill quite well.. Some professional studio gear company actually sold quite a few of those particular "rigs". Regardless of what its exact function was, you can bet it was ALOT cheaper than any stand-alone device that was designed from the ground-up for that specific purpose.. I bet the company that sold them made a huge profit..

 

so you're saying the video connections were not used to upgrade the signal? perhaps just made easier with the BNC connector.

 

I just bought one after I made an offer, which was accepted right away. far less than if I were to buy a used 130XE, at least from what I have seen in prices recently where one in the box is going for $200 and another used one sold for over $100.

 

Well, I guess the atari's output could have been resampled/resized by some other equipment and genlocked in as some small part of the screen, but judging by the software and the hardware, I dont see anything that could even come close to producing video production quality fonts, logos, or otherwise.. If you remember, the prevue channel looked pretty slick.. even back in the 80s.. It was definitely not based on the video output of an atari 8-bit.. Although the atari could have been responsible for some constituant part of the screen "real estate" so to speak.. Judging by the options in the software (Increase/decrease scroll speed, change ads, etc.) I'd say it was used to control/syncronize/ trigger events on other equipment that was actually producing the vast majority of the video output used for the broadcast. Most likely, the "video out" on that rack unit was just for the local monitor that the operator of the atari used..

 

If you notice, from the other thread, the company whose name is on the circuit board specialized in indutrial/commercial/manufacturing process control..

Edited February 4, 2009 by MEtalGuy66

[Mark Wolfe]

My personal oppinion is that it was probably only involved in the time-scheduled switching in/out (and/or dedicated control) of other more capable equipment.. Nothing an atari 8-bit can generate via it's own video hardware is even close to "broadcast quality." even by early 80s standards..

 

Judging by how many have appeared on Ebay though, I'd say that it's at the very least another good example of a nich-application that the ATARI was able to fill quite well.. Some professional studio gear company actually sold quite a few of those particular "rigs". Regardless of what its exact function was, you can bet it was ALOT cheaper than any stand-alone device that was designed from the ground-up for that specific purpose.. I bet the company that sold them made a huge profit..

 

so you're saying the video connections were not used to upgrade the signal? perhaps just made easier with the BNC connector.

 

I just bought one after I made an offer, which was accepted right away. far less than if I were to buy a used 130XE, at least from what I have seen in prices recently where one in the box is going for $200 and another used one sold for over $100.

 

Well, I guess the atari's output could have been resampled/resized by some other equipment and genlocked in as some small part of the screen, but judging by the software and the hardware, I dont see anything that could even come close to producing video production quality fonts, logos, or otherwise.. If you remember, the prevue channel looked pretty slick.. even back in the 80s.. It was definitely not based on the video output of an atari 8-bit.. Although the atari could have been responsible for some constituant part of the screen "real estate" so to speak.. Judging by the options in the software (Increase/decrease scroll speed, change ads, etc.) I'd say it was used to control/syncronize/ trigger events on other equipment that was actually producing the vast majority of the video output used for the broadcast. Most likely, the "video out" on that rack unit was just for the local monitor that the operator of the atari used..

 

 

that makes perfect sense especially considering the in/out BNC and the fact that SMPTE and other sync boxes used BNC connectors back in the 80s, at least the ones I used in an audio recording studio. i remember upgrading from a full rack space thing that cost is like 5 grand to one that was the size of a guitar stomp box that only cost about $100, such is the difference in technology, size and price between the 80s and 90s. and you're probably also right about whoever put this all together for TV Guide, must have made a small fortune doing it.

[charliecron]

Check out this video at youtube of the prevue channel in 1988,

 

 

those screenshots of the sotware in the original thread look similar dont they?

[Mark Wolfe]

Check out this video at youtube of the prevue channel in 1988,

 

 

those screenshots of the sotware in the original thread look similar dont they?

 

 

I think you may have something there and it speaks to MEtalGuy66's theory about how it was used as only a portion of the broadcast screen. I wonder if it was the 130XE on screen or if the 1300XE was triggering something else? what were those things called back in the day, they used it to make titles, logos and for whatever else inhabits the "lower 3rd" of the broadcast screen.

[UNIXcoffee928]

"Titlers" as far as I recall. The Atari would have been good for scrolling things like stock prices, news, weather, & such, across the bottom of the screen, horizontally. If you genlocked Gr. 1 scrolling text, it would have looked pretty good in that application. Such text would also be pretty acceptable for teleprompters, too, if scrolled vertically.

Edited February 4, 2009 by UNIXcoffee928

[Mark Wolfe]

same ebay seller has this for sale as well:

Amiga audio/video demodulator card

 

this might have been used in conjunction with the card attached to the sio port on the atari 130xe

 

update:

 

got word from the seller about the box:

 

these are neat little boxes. They used to run the rolling scripts for TV Guide company, and each box controlled a broadcast for a different channel nationwide. I don't know the answers right off the bat to your questions.... I had my tech guy power each of them up for testing. I am not sure to what extent he tested them, but he gave them the "OK" so I submitted them for listing. When we received them from TV Guide after they closed down here in Tulsa, we were told that they were in use up to just a few years ago and had no known problems.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Mark_Wolfe

[MEtalGuy66]

Yep.. I'll be damn.. That does look like the font used.. I'd say the ltext could be generated by the ATARI, the colored gradients & backgrounds probably generated by the AMIGA, and the video streams, from a third source, probably tape.. The hardware used to combine the three signals into a single NTSC screen could have also been installed in the AMIGA. I can think of 3 or 4 cards right off hand that they could have used..

 

If you notice on the ATARI screenshots from the other thread, everything that isnt TEXT is black.. This is consistant with the requirements for GENLOCKING the TEXT over the AMIGA generated backgrounds..

 

I remember turning on the prevue channel in the early 90s and seeing an intuition requester near the top of the screen, where whatever software was running on the AMIGA had crashed.. I remember laughing at the fact that it was obviously being run on an AMIGA, but I never dreamed that an 8-bit ATARI could have been used for the TEXT..

 

They changed the format of their scrolltext some time in late 92 or early 93.. as is evident by this:

 

Its really kewl to watch all the examples of crashes & reboots of the Prevue Channel that they have on YouTube..

Edited February 5, 2009 by MEtalGuy66

[potatohead]

I've seen Atari 8 bit text in hotel menu and notice systems well into the 90's. Don't know a thing about the devices that were involved. There is no mistaking GR 0 text though.

[charliecron]

In the "Sound off with John Harris" in comp.sys.atari.8bit, he mentions the prevue channel using Amiga.

 

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.at...amp;lnk=nl&

 

 

Charlie

[MEtalGuy66]

In the "Sound off with John Harris" in comp.sys.atari.8bit, he mentions the prevue channel using Amiga.

 

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.at...amp;lnk=nl&

 

 

Charlie

 

Sounds like he wasnt aware at the time, that the actual "scrolling" on Prevue Guide was being done by an ATARI 8-bit, or he wouldnt have criticized it the way he did. hahah.. Thats hilarious..

 

Wouldnt it be awesome to actually get one of these entire systems back up and running, producing a complete "Prevue Guide" style video stream? Set it up in a Kiosk that could be taken to events, and have the "event schedule" scrolling where the TV-SHOW SCHEDULE would normally be..

 

Or, run the whole thing into a video-capture card on a PC and stream it to a website where everyone could check it out..

 

I gave away (or sold) all of my "BIG BOX AMIGAs" when I got married a year or so ago.. Otherwise, I'd donate one to the cause..

Edited February 5, 2009 by MEtalGuy66

[Mark Wolfe]

In the "Sound off with John Harris" in comp.sys.atari.8bit, he mentions the prevue channel using Amiga.

 

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.at...amp;lnk=nl&

 

 

Charlie

 

Sounds like he wasnt aware at the time, that the actual "scrolling" on Prevue Guide was being done by an ATARI 8-bit, or he wouldnt have criticized it the way he did. hahah.. Thats hilarious..

 

Wouldnt it be awesome to actually get one of these entire systems back up and running, producing a complete "Prevue Guide" style video stream? Set it up in a Kiosk that could be taken to events, and have the "event schedule" scrolling where the TV-SHOW SCHEDULE would normally be..

 

Or, run the whole thing into a video-capture card on a PC and stream it to a website where everyone could check it out..

 

I gave away (or sold) all of my "BIG BOX AMIGAs" when I got married a year or so ago.. Otherwise, I'd donate one to the cause..

 

 

that would have been an awesome idea for a Phily Classic show, I totally would have done that.

 

meanwhile, I am on a search for an inexpensive "big box Amiga" just for the hell of having one, lol

[MEtalGuy66]

I'll almost guarantee you that the machine they were using was the A2000.. Its got tons of room inside for custom cards (genlocks, frame grabbers, etc.), it has the video expansion slot (also known as the "Toaster Slot") that that "video demodulator" card (shown in the EBAY auction you linked to earlier in the thread) fits in..

 

The A3000 came out later, would have been overkill CPU-wise, had MUCH LESS room inside, and were more prone to cooling/ventilation problems...

 

The A3000T was just way to expensive, and would have taken up WAY too much space.. Try fitting that huge freakin behemoth in a "rack mount" environment. They'd have been stupid to use that machine (although it would be bad-ass if they did)..

 

The A4000 came out WAY too late... And would REALLY have been overkill from a CPU standpoint..

 

None of the "wedge amigas" (A500/A600/A1200) could have used that demodulator card.. And niether could the A1000..

 

So if your looking to "rebuild" a PREVUE-GUIDE setup, I"d look for an A2000.... Try to find one with a version 6 (or higher) motherboard. I gave away 5 of them last year.. DOH!

Edited February 5, 2009 by MEtalGuy66

[Fletch]

Atari 8-Bits were used by all kinds of cable companies and hotels back in the day. I had a lengthy discussion with Bruce from B&C a few years back and he still sells an occasional XL or XE to replace dead units. He said the XF351 drives were used extensively, and they would fail like crazy because of poor contact solder at the power connector.

 

There is an old sign generator you can download here that is fun to play with : http://www.atariarchives.org/swlibrary/

 

Its called SIMAX Video Sign Maker.

 

Fletch

[MEtalGuy66]

He said the XF351 drives were used extensively, and they would fail like crazy because of poor contact solder at the power connector.

 

I thought the XF351 was never actually sold to the public...

[Fletch]

He said the XF351 drives were used extensively, and they would fail like crazy because of poor contact solder at the power connector.

 

I thought the XF351 was never actually sold to the public...

 

 

Oops. XF551. Sorry

[sl0re]

Atari 8-Bits were used by all kinds of cable companies and hotels back in the day. I had a lengthy discussion with Bruce from B&C a few years back and he still sells an occasional XL or XE to replace dead units. He said the XF351 drives were used extensively, and they would fail like crazy because of poor contact solder at the power connector.

 

There is an old sign generator you can download here that is fun to play with : http://www.atariarchives.org/swlibrary/

 

Its called SIMAX Video Sign Maker.

 

Fletch

 

I noticed one (130xe) in a restaurant once too. Used to keep track of open tables.

[Mark Wolfe]

I'll almost guarantee you that the machine they were using was the A2000.. Its got tons of room inside for custom cards (genlocks, frame grabbers, etc.), it has the video expansion slot (also known as the "Toaster Slot") that that "video demodulator" card (shown in the EBAY auction you linked to earlier in the thread) fits in..

 

The A3000 came out later, would have been overkill CPU-wise, had MUCH LESS room inside, and were more prone to cooling/ventilation problems...

 

The A3000T was just way to expensive, and would have taken up WAY too much space.. Try fitting that huge freakin behemoth in a "rack mount" environment. They'd have been stupid to use that machine (although it would be bad-ass if they did)..

 

The A4000 came out WAY too late... And would REALLY have been overkill from a CPU standpoint..

 

None of the "wedge amigas" (A500/A600/A1200) could have used that demodulator card.. And niether could the A1000..

 

So if your looking to "rebuild" a PREVUE-GUIDE setup, I"d look for an A2000.... Try to find one with a version 6 (or higher) motherboard. I gave away 5 of them last year.. DOH!

 

 

It is amazing to me the popularity of these machines and the freakin' high cost as well considering that Macintoshes from the same era could do anything an Amiga could do with a lot more hardware and software support to boot. Consider the PPC 9600. Plenty of room for cards, numerous 3rd party speed and ram upgrades, tons of audio and video hardware/software packages that were used and probably still used in studios somewhere today and yet the PPC tower sells for chump change and the Amiga tower sells for hundreds, sometimes thousands more.

 

The Amiga fanboys cry in their beers over the fact that OS4, [is that the right number?] will never be released because the powers that now hold Amiga are sitting on it and yet with a few easy hacks I can get OSX running on my legacy PPC with no trouble and it blows anything the Amiga boys can do out of the water... 24 track Pro Tools with hardware plugins and full midi, smpte implementation, no problem, industry standard NTSC or PAL video capture, editing and rendering, NO PROBLEM... running both together on one machine... NO PROBLEM, yet my baby Mac is seemingly worthless to the market.

 

I just don't get it. name ONE thing the Amigas can do that my Apple PPC can't... just one thing. I can even emulate the older Amigas on it to run games. I think there was even a CD32 add on board for the PPC that let it run the later Amiga games

 

wtf

Edited February 5, 2009 by Mark_Wolfe

[MEtalGuy66]

It is amazing to me the popularity of these machines and the freakin' high cost as well considering that Macintoshes from the same era could do anything an Amiga could do with a lot more hardware and software support to boot. Consider the PPC 9600. Plenty of room for cards, numerous 3rd party speed and ram upgrades, tons of audio and video hardware/software packages that were used and probably still used in studios somewhere today and yet the PPC tower sells for chump change and the Amiga tower sells for hundreds, sometimes thousands more.

 

The Amiga fanboys cry in their beers over the fact that OS4, [is that the right number?] will never be released because the powers that now hold Amiga are sitting on it and yet with a few easy hacks I can get OSX running on my legacy PPC with no trouble and it blows anything the Amiga boys can do out of the water... 24 track Pro Tools with hardware plugins and full midi, smpte implementation, no problem, industry standard NTSC or PAL video capture, editing and rendering, NO PROBLEM... running both together on one machine... NO PROBLEM, yet my baby Mac is seemingly worthless to the market.

 

I just don't get it. name ONE thing the Amigas can do that my Apple PPC can't... just one thing. I can even emulate the older Amigas on it to run games. I think there was even a CD32 add on board for the PPC that let it run the later Amiga games

 

wtf

Pfft Please.. Its obvious you never owned one.. Dont turn this thread into a rediculous platform-war.... But Im telling you that you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to the classic AMIGA, and OS4 has nothing to do with the classic AMIGA.. Its for a bullshit platform that the current owners of the AMIGA name are pushing.. And yeah.. It's tied up in legal crap because of some of the stupidest contracts Ive ever heard of.. Heh. They deserve what they get.. Before they even decided to make their "new PPC platform", mac had shit that was 100 time superior to what they hadnt even made yet.. I told everyone this.. None of them listened.. So Im in total agreement with you on the current state of things, and how rediculous these "fanboys" are... But theres alot of things about the original amiga architecture that makes it a hundred times more suitable (from a hardware standpoint only)for video production than the macs of the same era. And thats why it was chosen by so many, for so many Video Production/Broadcast Applications.. Like I said.. Lets not get into this argument in here.. I have no desire to.. In fact, I'm pleading with you not to..

Edited February 5, 2009 by MEtalGuy66

[Mark Wolfe]

It is amazing to me the popularity of these machines and the freakin' high cost as well considering that Macintoshes from the same era could do anything an Amiga could do with a lot more hardware and software support to boot. Consider the PPC 9600. Plenty of room for cards, numerous 3rd party speed and ram upgrades, tons of audio and video hardware/software packages that were used and probably still used in studios somewhere today and yet the PPC tower sells for chump change and the Amiga tower sells for hundreds, sometimes thousands more.

 

The Amiga fanboys cry in their beers over the fact that OS4, [is that the right number?] will never be released because the powers that now hold Amiga are sitting on it and yet with a few easy hacks I can get OSX running on my legacy PPC with no trouble and it blows anything the Amiga boys can do out of the water... 24 track Pro Tools with hardware plugins and full midi, smpte implementation, no problem, industry standard NTSC or PAL video capture, editing and rendering, NO PROBLEM... running both together on one machine... NO PROBLEM, yet my baby Mac is seemingly worthless to the market.

 

I just don't get it. name ONE thing the Amigas can do that my Apple PPC can't... just one thing. I can even emulate the older Amigas on it to run games. I think there was even a CD32 add on board for the PPC that let it run the later Amiga games

 

wtf

Pfft Please.. Its obvious you never owned one.. Dont turn this thread into a rediculous platform-war.... But Im telling you that you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to the classic AMIGA, and OS4 has nothing to do with the classic AMIGA.. Its for a bullshit platform that the current owners of the AMIGA name are pushing.. And yeah.. It's tied up in legal crap because of some of the stupidest contracts Ive ever heard of.. Heh. They deserve what they get.. Before they even decided to make their "new PPC platform", mac had shit that was 100 time superior to what they hadnt even made yet.. I told everyone this.. None of them listened.. So Im in total agreement with you on the current state of things, and how rediculous these "fanboys" are... But theres alot of things about the original amiga architecture that makes it a hundred times more suitable (from a hardware standpoint only)for video production than the macs of the same era. And thats why it was chosen by so many, for so many Video Production/Broadcast Applications.. Like I said.. Lets not get into this argument in here.. I have no desire to.. In fact, I'm pleading with you not to..

 

 

I was not looking for an argument, I'm sorry it came off that way, and you're right about one thing [probably more once I'm convinced] I never owned a larger Amiga but I plan to. That being said, I won't be using it for video considering I can do whatever it can do 10X FASTER on my Titanium laptop let alone my dual processor G5. I was just lamenting over the extremely high cost, I mean it is way out of proportion to anything even closely resembling logic... and you're wrong about one thing... I DO know what I'm talking about for the most part, but I am sure I am not nearly as technically savvy as you are. But I have worked in "the industry" so I am not just talking out my ass. I've made movies, shorts and albums in a variety of settings over the past 30 years including one project with a Grammy winner, and in almost every case a mac was involved with nary an Amiga to be seen.

 

For as many studios you can name that chose Amiga to handle the work, I can name as many that chose Apple and yes, I admit I am a classic apple fanboy, no doubt, but the fact is, from where I sit, and this is my main point, the price difference between the two "dead" platforms is fucking ridiculous and I refuse to pay more than $200 for an Amiga tower which means I am going to be waiting a good long time and watching thousands of auctions on ebay and craig's list before I finally snag one but that's ok because I'm anything if not patient.