My only complaint is that those two games have that 7800 logo on them while not really being 7800 games.
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New Games at Atari7800.com
Started by Albert, Sep 15 2002 11:16 PM
47 replies to this topic
#26 OFFLINE
ubersaurus
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Posted Tue Sep 17, 2002 11:24 AM
#27 OFFLINE
Tempest
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Posted Tue Sep 17, 2002 11:38 AM
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At $45 (!) each, I'll stick with playing them on a real 2600 (via a Cutle Cart).
Or you can just buy the actual prototypes at ten times the price.
Actually one thing I'm looking forward to is the Shooting Arcade manual. I'm wondering how close my research and observations of the game are to theirs.
Quote
Why must everybody be so damn hostile about this? I'm not forcing you to buy any games, or to even like them. Do as you wish. Just stop flaming us for working hard, on our own, to get some new stuff out for the system we like.
Yeah I've got to admit I don't understand what all the hostility is about. Did Albert and Alex get all these flames when they released Super Pac-Man and Millipede for the 5200? People used to do this all the time, but lately it seems that everyone is getting nasty towards people when they do.
Quote
My only complaint is that those two games have that 7800 logo on them while not really being 7800 games.
Well I think they explained that already. They are 2600 games, but will only run on a 7800 due to the new board. So they can't really put them in 2600 boxes now can they? Besides, aftering seeing some of those "7800" games, I'd swear Atari did this once or twice themselves...
Tempest
#28 OFFLINE
MegaManFan
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Posted Tue Sep 17, 2002 1:26 PM
Tempest said:
Well I think they explained that already. They are 2600 games, but will only run on a 7800 due to the new board. So they can't really put them in 2600 boxes now can they? Besides, aftering seeing some of those "7800" games, I'd swear Atari did this once or twice themselves...
Tempest
Tempest
I'm sure Food Fight could be a 2600 game, if the graphics were pared down ever so slightly. When you look at the two versions of Centipede, the only significant difference on 7800 is that it looks better.
#29 OFFLINE
Tempest
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Posted Tue Sep 17, 2002 1:39 PM
Nah, Food Fight looks really good on the 7800, if you want to see a cruddy version try the XE. It's slow, choppy, and the graphics are really dull looking.
Food Fight WAS planned for the 2600, but I don't think work was ever started on it.
Tempest
Food Fight WAS planned for the 2600, but I don't think work was ever started on it.
Tempest
#30 OFFLINE
ubersaurus
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Posted Tue Sep 17, 2002 4:12 PM
Well all I'm sayin is that they should be differentiated from normal 7800 releases is all...it's kinda like those sega cd games that needed the 32x. They weren't called Sega CD games, they were called 32x CD. These are like those games, 2600 games that need the 7800 to run.
#31 OFFLINE
RJ
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Posted Tue Sep 17, 2002 6:07 PM
This is off topic, but I'd like to commend Scott on his avatar choice! What's the deal on the raving lunatic anyway? Was it a graphic anomaly/blurb that Atari had to turn into a "character"? It just seems so out of place in the game...
#32 OFFLINE
cx2k
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Posted Tue Sep 17, 2002 6:52 PM
Tempest said:
Yeah I've got to admit I don't understand what all the hostility is about. Did Albert and Alex get all these flames when they released Super Pac-Man and Millipede for the 5200? People used to do this all the time, but lately it seems that everyone is getting nasty towards people when they do.
People used to do this when? It's only recently that people have started grabbing roms that are already available to the community and making individual carts out of them.
John
#33 OFFLINE
Ze_ro
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Posted Tue Sep 17, 2002 7:25 PM
Eckhard Stolberg said:
Both games use the 128 bytes Superchip RAM though. ..... Since the 7800 has the read, write and clock signal on the cartridge connector, this is easier to build than for the 2600.
So basically, it's just easier and cheaper than making a 2600 version? But since you're limiting your target audience to 7800 people, it seems to me like you'd get a lot less sales... I guess they figured it was worth it?
As for the price, I don't really see much point in complaining about it. If you don't think it's worth it, then don't buy it. They're running a business, and if this is the price that they find makes them the most money, then that's their choice. Personally, I'm a little too spoiled by $3 games at the thrift stores, and trouble spending any more than $20 even on Dreamcast games...
--Zero
#34 OFFLINE
Mitch
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Posted Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:30 PM
CX2K said:
People used to do this when? It's only recently that people have started grabbing roms that are already available to the community and making individual carts out of them.
John
John
I thought he was talking about Randy at Hozer. Of course, he doesn't have fancy packaging or labels for most games but that's who comes to mind.
Mitch
http://atari7800.atari.org
#35 OFFLINE
Atari2600Lives
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Posted Thu Sep 19, 2002 9:31 PM
Justin-
I think what your doing is cool man. Your site looks great as well.
I think what your doing is cool man. Your site looks great as well.
#36 OFFLINE
Curt Vendel
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Posted Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:29 PM
[quote="Lee Krueger"][quote]
I support 7800.coms efforts. I am glad someone is paying attention to the 7800 finally!! If and when they get their site up and working, I'll order a cart or 2
I can vouch for this being a time intensive and expensive venture to do. I hope they will stay around and deliver.
-Lee[/quote]
Lee,
Its good to see how others appreciate fellow enthusiasts efforts and wanting to work with one another, bravo! This is how things should be approached vs those who would bash people's efforts. 7800 support is certainly lacking and ANY effort should be appreciated. As with anything, cost & effort can make for a high priced product, hopefully those guys will be able to bring their prices down in the future.
I will say this, they are certainly trying to put out high quality products, I've seen their packaging quality and its excellent, the labels are gorgeous compared to bland black & grey 7800 labels or the cheesy brick red 7800 labels.
Now, I will say this.... as for the carts sent to Joe over at DP, to be honest, if the deal was for standard carts and Joe was expecting exactly that, then the 7800.com guys should've made it clear that they would be sending upgraded label version to him and got his okay, that said....
The labels are a unique approach which look very cool, they have a kind of "7800 Meets XE Game System" Blue look, very good and original, a nice change.
Curt
I support 7800.coms efforts. I am glad someone is paying attention to the 7800 finally!! If and when they get their site up and working, I'll order a cart or 2
I can vouch for this being a time intensive and expensive venture to do. I hope they will stay around and deliver. -Lee[/quote]
Lee,
Its good to see how others appreciate fellow enthusiasts efforts and wanting to work with one another, bravo! This is how things should be approached vs those who would bash people's efforts. 7800 support is certainly lacking and ANY effort should be appreciated. As with anything, cost & effort can make for a high priced product, hopefully those guys will be able to bring their prices down in the future.
I will say this, they are certainly trying to put out high quality products, I've seen their packaging quality and its excellent, the labels are gorgeous compared to bland black & grey 7800 labels or the cheesy brick red 7800 labels.
Now, I will say this.... as for the carts sent to Joe over at DP, to be honest, if the deal was for standard carts and Joe was expecting exactly that, then the 7800.com guys should've made it clear that they would be sending upgraded label version to him and got his okay, that said....
The labels are a unique approach which look very cool, they have a kind of "7800 Meets XE Game System" Blue look, very good and original, a nice change.
Curt
#37 OFFLINE
Curt Vendel
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Posted Thu Sep 26, 2002 10:38 PM
[quote name='"Tempest"][quote]Yeah I've got to admit I don't understand what all the hostility is about. Did Albert and Alex get all these flames when they released Super Pac-Man and Millipede for the 5200? People used to do this all the time' date=' but lately it seems that everyone is getting nasty towards people when they do. [/quote']
Seeing Super Pac Man, Millipede and any others on cart form is a great thing IMHO, Hozer has been doing it for years for the 2600. By providing these games in cart format, they are providing a service to those who wish to play the games are they should be played.... on a REAL Atari console and not through emulation. They are providing a convenience of have something real to plug into their consoles or take to a friends house, not everyone enjoys playing emulation on a keyboard with the screen not perfect or the sound not perfect. Especially 5200 titles, none were available till recently since no one had created 5200 eprom boards, now with Joe Grands PCB's available, any 5200 game can now be burned to an eprom and played on a 5200 console, plus homebrewers now have one less hurdle to publishing their games in cartridge format...
Keep up the super work guys!!! :-)
Curt
Seeing Super Pac Man, Millipede and any others on cart form is a great thing IMHO, Hozer has been doing it for years for the 2600. By providing these games in cart format, they are providing a service to those who wish to play the games are they should be played.... on a REAL Atari console and not through emulation. They are providing a convenience of have something real to plug into their consoles or take to a friends house, not everyone enjoys playing emulation on a keyboard with the screen not perfect or the sound not perfect. Especially 5200 titles, none were available till recently since no one had created 5200 eprom boards, now with Joe Grands PCB's available, any 5200 game can now be burned to an eprom and played on a 5200 console, plus homebrewers now have one less hurdle to publishing their games in cartridge format...
Keep up the super work guys!!! :-)
Curt
#38 OFFLINE
mos6507
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Posted Sun Oct 20, 2002 11:02 PM
There is one VERY important fact that has not been revealed about these cart reissues....
Lance told me over the phone that he owns a great number of official pre-production EPROMs of these games which he acquired LEGALLY from Atari.
So the idea was that these carts could be sold legally since they are NOT pirates. It's simply packaging up the old chips which he owns and has every right to resell--for profit. When the chips run out, the game is no longer going to be sold.
This would be different from efforts by Lee and the CGE crew which are all technically pirates.
Now, I have my doubts as to whether an unaltered superchip cart could run on a 7800 board. Assuming
the game has to be altered, then new EPROMs are going to have to be burned, so I don't know what the actual truth is here, or how that would change the legalities.
And of course, it might not mean anything to the consumer who just wants to play the games...
Now, if you are doing hobby type projects you probably don't have to worry about copyright issues, but Video61 is a long-standing business and I don't think they would want to take any risks.
Lance told me over the phone that he owns a great number of official pre-production EPROMs of these games which he acquired LEGALLY from Atari.
So the idea was that these carts could be sold legally since they are NOT pirates. It's simply packaging up the old chips which he owns and has every right to resell--for profit. When the chips run out, the game is no longer going to be sold.
This would be different from efforts by Lee and the CGE crew which are all technically pirates.
Now, I have my doubts as to whether an unaltered superchip cart could run on a 7800 board. Assuming
the game has to be altered, then new EPROMs are going to have to be burned, so I don't know what the actual truth is here, or how that would change the legalities.
And of course, it might not mean anything to the consumer who just wants to play the games...
Now, if you are doing hobby type projects you probably don't have to worry about copyright issues, but Video61 is a long-standing business and I don't think they would want to take any risks.
#39 OFFLINE
Kaboomer
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Posted Sat Nov 23, 2002 1:16 PM
Am I the only one who is really looking forward to playing Save Mary on the 7800! ? !
#40 OFFLINE
voiddweller
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Posted Sat Nov 23, 2002 10:06 PM
[quote="Tempest"][quote]They are 2600 games, but will only run on a 7800 due to the new board. So they can't really put them in 2600 boxes now can they? Besides, aftering seeing some of those "7800" games, I'd swear Atari did this once or twice themselves...
Tempest[/quote]
That is too funny!
Tempest[/quote]
That is too funny!
#41 OFFLINE
Harry_Dodgson
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Posted Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:21 AM
"Eckhard Stolberg said:
...
Both games use the 128 bytes Superchip RAM though. 2600 games have to read the data from different addresses, than they can write to, to make it work. To get Save Mary and Shooting Arcade working on my homebrew 7800 RAM cart, I disassembled the games and changed the write accesses to use the same addresses as the read accesses. But if you are going to build a special board for this, you can probably just add some more decoding logic for accesses to the RAM chip. Since the 7800 has the read, write and clock signal on the cartridge connector, this is easier to build than for the 2600.
...
Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg
Both games use the 128 bytes Superchip RAM though. 2600 games have to read the data from different addresses, than they can write to, to make it work. To get Save Mary and Shooting Arcade working on my homebrew 7800 RAM cart, I disassembled the games and changed the write accesses to use the same addresses as the read accesses. But if you are going to build a special board for this, you can probably just add some more decoding logic for accesses to the RAM chip. Since the 7800 has the read, write and clock signal on the cartridge connector, this is easier to build than for the 2600.
...
Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg
Actually, if you are using hardware, you don't need to change the
ROM code and you don't need extra hardware. To get the RAM
to read one location and write another, you just leave off an address
line so it reads and writes at both locations. The code never tries to
write to the read addresses or read from the write addresses so it
doesn't make any difference. Lance sent me the ROM image for
"Save Mary" several years ago and I worked up a prototype for
him using my favorite board (from a Hat Trick cartridge).
Note that this trick only works with games that were developed on
the Atari 7800 dev system since all the banks are addressed
differently. The easy way to tell if you have one of these is to
check for the 2600 mode lockin code at the beginning of the
ROM image. Without that header, the dev system would try to
run the code as a 7800 game.
Harry
#42 OFFLINE
Curt Vendel
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Posted Thu Dec 5, 2002 8:19 AM
Expanding on that, Lance had shown me that he is the actual legal owner of 2600 Combat as he bought the rights from Atari, maybe he should go after Infogrames 
Curt
Curt
#43 OFFLINE
Tempest
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Posted Thu Dec 5, 2002 8:32 AM
No kidding? Now that would be a cool thing to auction off: The rights to various Atari games. I wouldn't mind being the owner of Crystal Castles. I guess some of this has already started to happen with the DP crew now owning the Commavid rights. Of course all of this makes you wonder about the future legality of selling or distributing games...
Tempest
Tempest
#44 OFFLINE
cx2k
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Posted Thu Dec 5, 2002 8:34 PM
Just for the record, the "DP crew" does not own the rights to the CommaVid games. They are owned by myself and Sean Kelly and even though we 're both involved in DP, they are complete and seperate entities.
John
John
Tempest said:
No kidding? Now that would be a cool thing to auction off: The rights to various Atari games. I wouldn't mind being the owner of Crystal Castles. I guess some of this has already started to happen with the DP crew now owning the Commavid rights. Of course all of this makes you wonder about the future legality of selling or distributing games...
Tempest
Tempest
#45 OFFLINE
Tempest
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Posted Thu Dec 5, 2002 10:04 PM
Quote
Just for the record, the "DP crew" does not own the rights to the CommaVid games. They are owned by myself and Sean Kelly and even though we 're both involved in DP, they are complete and seperate entities.
Sorry my bad. I meant You and Sean. Joe has no part of this?
Tempest
#46 OFFLINE
cx2k
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Posted Fri Dec 6, 2002 5:33 AM
No problem Matt. Joe wasn't involved in the purchase of CommaVid although he did reap some of the benefits.
It's not a big deal although we do try to keep a distinction between DP and our other activities. Another example is when people say that CGE is run by DP. It's not. It's run originally by two and now three people who also happen to be involved in DP.
I know it sounds like semantics but it's in the show's interest that we try to get people to realize the difference.
...And that's probably more info than you wanted to know. Sorry for rambling.
John
It's not a big deal although we do try to keep a distinction between DP and our other activities. Another example is when people say that CGE is run by DP. It's not. It's run originally by two and now three people who also happen to be involved in DP.
I know it sounds like semantics but it's in the show's interest that we try to get people to realize the difference.
...And that's probably more info than you wanted to know. Sorry for rambling.
John
Tempest said:
Sorry my bad. I meant You and Sean. Joe has no part of this?
Tempest
Tempest
#47 OFFLINE
Atari 7800.com
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Posted Tue Dec 10, 2002 10:06 AM
Hey,
I just want to thank you guys for all of your support. Lance and I both really appreciate it and we are looking forward to getting some real high-quality games out there for you guys to enjoy, and we will do our best to keep the prices reasonable.
Thanks again!
I just want to thank you guys for all of your support. Lance and I both really appreciate it and we are looking forward to getting some real high-quality games out there for you guys to enjoy, and we will do our best to keep the prices reasonable.
Thanks again!
#48 OFFLINE
Kaboomer
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Posted Sun Dec 15, 2002 8:30 AM
I can't wait to play these new games from 7800.com. Any word on when?????
Anxious,
Brad
Anxious,
Brad
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