29 replies to this topic

[salstadt]

Hey guys,

I haven't posted here in ages. Lately I've been developing games for GBA and DS, and now Wii at WayForward, the company I work for. Our latest game (which I directed) is LIT for WiiWare, a horror puzzle action game.



Although the character in the game controls fluid like a typical survival horror game, the game itself is very rigid and classic puzzle style. You control a teenager (Jake), trapped in his high school when it's overrun by dark creatures. You have to make your way from the entrance door to the exit in each room, in order to advance through the school and (eventually) find your girlfriend. However everything is dark and if you step into the darkness, you'll get pulled under by dark creatures and have to start the level over again. So the way you progress is by turning on lights and breaking windows, to introduce lit areas that you can safely walk into. You can't introduce too much light at once (or you'll blow the fuse), so you have to turn off lights you're no longer using (only electrical objects consume power, not windows). If you blow a fuse, all lights go out and you die, restart, etc.

The game's available now on WiiWare in the US and has gotten pretty good review scores.

Anyway, my theory is that any game design worth a damn should be possible on a 2600 (or similar older system), so I took some time today and thought out LIT for that system as sort of an experiment, and I was surprised by how well it fit.


1: In this first image, you see a dark classroom, the empty fuse meter at the top of the screen, an entrance and exit door, windows, and Jake standing near the doorway. Although Jake's sprite is slightly larger than a 16x16 block, he moves in 16x16 steps (in a 320x240 resolution). Every room starts with exactly 1 tile of safe light, where Jake is standing here.


2: If the player steps into the darkness, whoops - Jake dies. And the level must be restarted.


3: So let's start a puzzle. Jake starts in the room, and he's right next to a slingshot pellet (green dot) which is on a table (grey). Jake cannot walk through tables, so they block his progress in many situations.


4: Pressing the button causes Jake to grab the slingshot pellet. Notice that his 0 pellet counter at the top right is now replaced with 1, and he has an arrow pointing next to him (part of his sprite). Pressing the button again will fire his slingshot, which breaks any object in its path.


5: The player fires and breaks the window at the right, which creates a beam of light that can be walked across.


6: Jake walks the beam (his walk in this game would be block by block, ala Frogger). When Jake gets to a certain spot, a dark red spot appears next to him. This dot indicates an electrical object (in this case, a lamp) is in the darkness. This dot will only appear when Jake is close enough to use it (adjacent).


7: The player presses the button and the lamp turns on, illuminating a 3x3 area that can safely be walked in now. Note that the lamp itself i still a blocker (can't be walked through). The lamp also makes another collectable pellet become visible. If a collectable is 1 block away from the light (or in the light) it will become visible.


8: Jake collects the pellet and gets his aiming arrow again.


9: Jake walks left. Note that his arrow is pointing left. The arrow can point in any direction. The way Jake's mobility normally works is pressing any direction makes him hop one spot in that direction. But if he has a slingshot pellet, pressing in a direction will first move the player's aiming arrow to face that direction (without moving Jake). Pressing again (when the arrow is already facing the way you press) will move Jake.


10: So pressing up once causes Jake's aiming arrow to point up, without moving Jake's location. The player is now aiming at the next window.


11: The player fires, breaking a window, introducing more light, and revealing another collectable pellet. Note that a slingshot pellet will break a lamp or window (and stop there), but it will pass over collectable objects and tables.


12: Jake walks up the beam and collects the pellet.


13: Jake aims at the next window.


14: Jake fires. Note that there is a desk blocking the player's way. There's no way to get around it right now.


15: As the player walks, they pass a lamp (which lights in red, revealing itself).


16: The player turns on the lamp, revealing another collectable pellet.


17: The player collects the pellet and aims at the next window.


18: The player fires, creating another path and revealing another pellet.


19: The player aims at the last window.


20: The player fires, creating another beam. Notice that the desk they just grabbed the pellet from blocks them from moving further down the beam.


21: The player walks up and reveals another lamp.


22: The player turns on the lamp, which causes light to reach the exit door. Almost there!


23: The player reaches the exit door and the level is completed.

Now let's take a step back and look at some other gameplay items.


24: Note that in this example, the player shot the wrong window. Their path is blocked, there are no more collectables, so they must restart the level to try and beat it again.


25: In this situation, the player has a pellet AND is standing next to a window. What happens when the player presses the button?


26: The answer: the slingshot is fired. Since lamps can be turned on and off indefinitely, the player will always fire a slingshot first when in a situation where either action could occur.


27: The player presses the button again, and the lamp is turned on.


28: In this image, note the player is next to a light that is keeping them alive. What happens when they turn it off while in this light?


29: Death of course. The light goes out, they are caught in the darkness, and Jake dies.


30: Lastly, the fuse meter. Note that it goes up 1/4 of the meter each time a lamp is turned on. The player can safely turn on 4 lamps, but this maxes the meter out.


31: Turning on one more lamp shorts the fuse, all lights go out and the player dies.

So that's the game in a nutshell. The Wii version is much more complicated, and includes boss battles and non-rigid movement, but the basic puzzling concepts transfered over surprisingly well I thought. I'd be curious to hear what you guys think about this, how close or far it is from the 2600's capabilities, suggestions, etc. I have a feeling I'm over on colors per row, and color changes per row, but otherwise I think it's all kept pretty barebones. I don't rhave plans to actually make it for 2600 (unless someone here really wanted to), but I thought it would be a fun little exercise to see how the game transferred over and challenge myself as a game designer.

Edited by salstadt, Wed Mar 4, 2009 11:24 PM.

[nonner242]

I LIKE IT!

[rockman_x_2002]

So you're the mastermind behind Lit? Gotta tell ya, that's some awesome stuff there. A friend of mine downloaded it and showed it to me, and I had to have it for myself. Played through the whole thing in three nights. It was very refreshing to see a game like this on a modern console. I haven't played an action-puzzler quite like this since The Adventures of LoLo (NES) or Chip's Challenge (Atari Lynx), those two of course being much less on the horror side but puzzler games nontheless. So I must say I thoroughly enjoyed Lit, and I hope you guys are considering a sequel maybe.

As for the 2600 experiment here, looks awesome. It's always interesting to consider how a modern game might look like when restyled for the 2600, and the pictures do seem to capture the spirit of the game quite well. Such things always interest me since I'm a programmer myself (fresh college grad with a Masters in Computer Science). So it's interesting to see a work-in-progress as it moves along and is pieced together.

Incidentally, since you say you work at WayForward. Be sure to heap some praise on the folks responsible for Contra 4 on the DS for making a game that captures the true spirit of the original Contra while adding new things to the mix. That one's also nicely done.

[vampiricrogue]

rockman_x_2002, on Wed Mar 4, 2009 10:10 PM, said:

A friend of mine downloaded it and showed it to me, and I had to have it for myself.

-waves- I'm the friend

Yea, the game is awesome. ^_^ I think rockman said enough so all i can do is be a cheerleader in the background Forgive me. But i hope there is another one coming out.

[Legend]

This sounds really cool. I hope it does manage to get made into a 2600 game. I'd definitely play it. I like the concept and theme too. The only thing I would add is a move counter so the player can try to complete each level in the least amount of moves possible. SOrry I can't try the wii version. sounds cool too.

[salstadt]

Legend, on Thu Mar 5, 2009 1:03 AM, said:

This sounds really cool. I hope it does manage to get made into a 2600 game. I'd definitely play it. I like the concept and theme too. The only thing I would add is a move counter so the player can try to complete each level in the least amount of moves possible.

That's utterly brilliant! The Wii version had 'Dark Mode' where the game worked on a timer (fastest time possible). That doesn't make as much sense here, since you're moving space by space, but a move counter would be a fantastic way to essentially copy that, but more in the spirit of this version of the game.

Thanks for the kind words on LIT and Contra, guys. We definitely put our hearts into both of those games. As for a LIT sequel, we've definitely thought about it and have some ideas. Just comes down to timing and availability. Primary focus now is getting the game out for the PAL market.

[revolutionika]

great concept for a 2600 version.i too enjoyed LIT on wiiware......anyway...how is lit selling on there anyway? or is that top secret?

keep up the great work.

[salstadt]

revolutionika, on Thu Mar 5, 2009 1:23 AM, said:

great concept for a 2600 version.i too enjoyed LIT on wiiware......anyway...how is lit selling on there anyway? or is that top secret?

keep up the great work.

Top secret. It's reviewed well though (80% average so far).

[revolutionika]

salstadt, on Thu Mar 5, 2009 12:25 AM, said:

revolutionika, on Thu Mar 5, 2009 1:23 AM, said:

great concept for a 2600 version.i too enjoyed LIT on wiiware......anyway...how is lit selling on there anyway? or is that top secret?

keep up the great work.

Top secret. It's reviewed well though (80% average so far).

ahhh, a textbook response ,almost like you work for nintendo!!!!!!!

j/k



anyway,im looking forward to lit 2!

[supercat]

I don't understand the rationale of requiring the player to waste a slingshot before being able to turn on a lamp. I would think it would make more sense to design things so that aiming at a lamp point-blank will turn it on without using a pellet.

I would think the game should fit pretty easily within the 2600's abilities, especially if there were only one lamp, desk, or other object per line (it would be possible to handle two or three such objects, plus the player, using 30Hz flicker, but I think it would be nicer not to). I'd also be inclined to allow the player to move smoothly if practical; I see no particular reason that shouldn't work.

[salstadt]

supercat, on Thu Mar 5, 2009 1:50 AM, said:

I don't understand the rationale of requiring the player to waste a slingshot before being able to turn on a lamp. I would think it would make more sense to design things so that aiming at a lamp point-blank will turn it on without using a pellet.

I agree, that does seem like it would work better.

[Nathan Strum]

salstadt, on Wed Mar 4, 2009 7:48 PM, said:

I haven't posted here in ages. Lately I've been developing games for GBA and DS, and now Wii at WayForward, the company I work for.

Cool - I didn't know you worked over there. Small world.

[vdub_bobby]

The game design is pretty cool though, like most puzzle games, the actual puzzles would determine whether the game was worth playing or not.

That said, the mockups are too abstract - I haven't played LIT, but it seems like a lot of the game is the creepy horror atmosphere. Looking at the mockups above, I don't see any of that.

Edited by vdub_bobby, Thu Mar 5, 2009 11:35 AM.

[Kurt_Woloch]

OK, since this is a WII only game, there seems to be no way to play the original version on a PC, so I have to judge that by the screenshots shown only.

Now... how could that reasonably be done?

Basically, the playfield only consists of one high-res figure (the player) and several blocks which more or less are static, i.e. get displayed or not, but never move.

I would do this as follows:
- Reduce the player to monochrome (red only, no second color), that way only one player gets used for it. The slingshot pellet should be red instead of green, that way the player's missile could be used for it. The entrance and exit could also be displayed by the player's missile, since nothing else exists on those scanlines.
- The yellow light stripes and areas are probably the best use for the 2600's playfield graphics. The playfield may be asymmetrical, however, which may pose some problems creating the display, but those are not unsolvable. The worst thing that might be required would be to have some black scanlines between each logical "line" on screen.
- This leaves the lamps, the windows and the tables to be displayed. On your mock-up, the lamps and the windows never occur on the same scanline. But they may occur on the same scanline with tables, which are a different color. In this case I'd say that if two of those objects appear on the same scanline, they either may have to flicker, or they would be displayed in a "striped" way, that is, on alternating scanlines.
However, some optimizations are thinkable:
- On lines where the "main" player isn't visible, both players could be used to display the other objects.
- If there is no light on a line, or the line is fully lit because an open window is on it, the background color may be set to either black or yellow, and the playfield / ball graphics are free to be used to display other objects.

So, let's give a quick rundown of how the different screens could be displayed:
1 and 2: Jake is player 1, the entrance and the exits are Missile 1. The windows on the dark lines are the ball (should be by default). The yellow square on the bottom is the playfield (it would be too complex to do it otherwise). Changes to the screenshot: Jake should be monochrome.
3 and 4: The table is player 2 (because nothing else occupies player 2). The playfield pellet is Missile 1.
5: The background color of the line where the window is on gets changed to yellow (should extend a bit more to the left, actually). Actually, the window itself could be removed now since it can't be closed anymore, so it's not relevant which side the light comes from.
6: The table is still player 2, the electrical object gets displayed by the ball (since no light is on the same line).
7 through 10: Here it gets complex. The lit lamp and the the table now have to share player 2 and thus flicker. But the lamp could switch to be player 1 from screenshot 8 on where Jake is on another line.
11 through 13: The vertical stripe of light is playfield graphics. The windows on the left and right now switch to be player 2. The table on top is also player 2, with the pellet laying on it as player 1.
14: The background color on the new horizontal stripe of light gets turned to yellow. The table on that line is player 2, and the window again could be removed to leave just a horizontal stripe, Jack (player 1) and the table (player 2) on that line.
15: The lamp, this time would switch to be player 2 since there's light on that line.
16: The turned-on lamp would be player 2 this time (since there's light on that line). On the line below, the table would be player 2, and the pellet on it would be missile 1 since Jake isn't on the same line. The window to the right could switch to be yellow instead of white, thus being displayed by the ball.
17: When both Jake and the pellet are visible on the same line, it's not a problem because both are red.
18: The background color again gets turned to yellow for the new horizontal path. The table blocking the path would be player 2. Oh, and I would make the window disappear again. The newly revealed table, again, is player 2, and the pellet on it is player 1.
20: The new vertical beam gets added to the playfield graphics.
21: The lamp revealed gets displayed by player 2 (or missile 2?)
22: The lit lamp also gets displayed by player 2 since no other object (except for Jake) is on that line.

As you can see, most of the time there's no need for flicker to create a reasonable display with just some more restrictions (make the pellet red, Jake monochrome and the windows disappear once shot). Also, the objects all have some default representation (Player 1 for Jake, missile 1 for the pellet and exits, player 2 for tables and lamps, background graphics for light, background color for horizontal light stripes, and the ball for vertical windows), but may switch to another object if their default object isn't free (which, however, requires some complex kernal).

I think the following mock-up (modified from screenshot #18) might be closer to what the 2600 actually may be able to display:


Oh, and why have you chosen to work with a bigger matrix for the 2600 version? The WII version only works with a 9x12 matrix, as far as I can see. Since the 2600 would have to store some kind of playfield in RAM, and only has got 128 bytes of RAM, it might be good to stick with the smaller matrix instead of blowing it up to 12x20 (presumably), as you have done. At least the 9 horizontal lines should be kept, otherwise you might be doing more scanlines than a normal NTSC TV is able to display. Seems like you're doing 240 scanlines in that mockup. The reduction to 9 lines would reduce that to the standard 192 scanlines.

Edited by Kurt_Woloch, Sun Mar 8, 2009 3:39 PM.

[jbanes]

It seems you've attracted the attention of WiiWare World:

http://www.wiiware-world.com/news/2009/03/..._version_of_lit

Say hi to Corbie for me when you get there.

[ZIMM]

Looks great salstadt! Now make it into a real game!

about Wayforward - I enjoyed Contra 4 very much. Great job with that game! I probably played other games from the company, especially since I had a SNES.

about Lit wiiware - I never really enjoyed horror games, but I was interested in Lit especially since it seems to focus more on puzzles. Showing that you enjoy Atari 2600 (my favorite console of all-time, with Wii coming very close behind it), and hopefully this was just not a test on your part to see what happens if you transfer the game to Atari 2600, I have much more respect for the company now since you like old school. Very cool! For some reason I always felt an old school influence on Wayforward games. I will for sure buy the game soon.

about future wiiware games - So, are there any plans for future Wayforward wiiware games? How is Shantae working out?

about DSi ware games - Can't wait for the handheld to come out! Any plans for DSi ware games? Mighty Flip looks cool.

about DSi VC games - So, do you know or do you think it is possible for a "VC system" for the DSi? I know many people who want that to happen. They especially want Gameboy games, but I would want any handheld system. I would love GBC games so I can play Shantae. Sega Game Gear would be cool as well, so I can play games made by Wayforward for that system as well. I still need to play Duck Amuck on the DS.

about VC games - So, maybe now you can influence someone at Nintendo to bring Atari 2600 games to VC? Eventhough I am an Atari 2600 collector, I would still love to see it on the VC and of course I would buy the games. I know a bunch of people who would love to see it on the VC, especially the young kids who did not play it back in the day.

about Lit 2600 - All of the suggestions are excellent and I really can't think of anything else. What might be cool for you to do is make a title screen and also give your thoughts about what the intro song would be? Of course you don't need any music, but I always love some of those intro songs for Atari games. What are your thoughts about sfx for the game? Of course the next step is the box with artwork and the cart. What would those look like?

I would actually love to see a real 2600 game of this and it looks promising so far. I love when homebrewers bring arcade games to 2600 or even computer games. It is always so interesting to see how those games play/look like on the 2600. When I buy homebrew games, those are the ones that I buy.

Keep up the excellent job and your support for Nintendo!

[Kurt_Woloch]

Well... I always like to keep things as close to the original as possible, so I'd vote for the original music from the WII, of course adapted to the 2600... I think the baseline with the whistling on top, and then the breathing (which is essentially noise) could convert pretty well.

By the way, I made a mistake in my previous post... actually, the WII screenshot does show a grid of 12x12. So the 2600 display could consist of 12 logical lines as well, but they would have to be less high than in the mock-up... let's say 12 scanlines each instead of 16. Actually, since with Jake being upright, a sort of pseudo-3D look would be displayed, it could fit the perspective pretty well if each cell was less high than wide. Oh, and the tables and lamps could actually be more detailed than simple squares if displayed by the other player.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

LIT reminds me at a great game I played on my mobile phone called Darkest Fear (all 3 of them, loved the concept).

What came first? Any relations between the two?

http://www.midlet-review.com/index?content...41&rel=j2me
http://www.midlet-review.com/index?content...71&rel=j2me
http://www.midlet-review.com/index?content...26&rel=j2me

[salstadt]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:53 PM, said:

LIT reminds me at a great game I played on my mobile phone called Darkest Fear (all 3 of them, loved the concept).

What came first? Any relations between the two?

http://www.midlet-review.com/index?content...41&rel=j2me
http://www.midlet-review.com/index?content...71&rel=j2me
http://www.midlet-review.com/index?content...26&rel=j2me

You know, I'd never heard of that game until LIT was released, but since then a few people have mentioned it. The ideas behind LIT predate that game's release (I have an old treatment for LIT from early 2005). But no, no connection between the two. That game also seems to be more about moving objects ala Sokoban and walking around with portable light sources, as opposed to LIT where you can only set up immobile light sources to create intersecting paths. The flashlight in LIT can't actually be used to give you safe passage.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

salstadt, on Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:59 PM, said:

That game also seems to be more about moving objects ala Sokoban and walking around with portable light sources, as opposed to LIT where you can only set up immobile light sources to create intersecting paths. The flashlight in LIT can't actually be used to give you safe passage.

DF uses both, stationary and mobile lights (usually with some limitations). It also uses movable mirrors to bring the light where you need it. The Sokoban elments are just minor additions. So yes, there are some differences, but the fundamental idea is very similar.

If you ever have the chance, try to play DF. Maybe you get some ideas for LIT 2.

[Kurt_Woloch]

Hate to say it, but in view of the recent school shootings in Germany and Alabama I would actually vote for retracting this game from sale... shooting with guns in a school setting just doesn't feel right to me.

Edited by Kurt_Woloch, Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:37 AM.

[salstadt]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:24 AM, said:

If you ever have the chance, try to play DF. Maybe you get some ideas for LIT 2.

Hey, I think that's exactly why I shouldn't play it. We actually had reflecting mirrors in LIT initially, but took them out because we figured it'd make the puzzling way too organic and hard to predict.

Kurt_Woloch, on Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:36 AM, said:

Hate to say it, but in view of the recent school shootings in Germany and Alabama I would actually vote for retracting this game from sale... shooting with guns in a school setting just doesn't feel right to me.

Slingshot, ala Dennis the Menace. No guns in LIT.

- Adam

[Kurt_Woloch]

Oh, sorry then... I misremembered that part. I just thought when I heard about the massacres "hey, those two people must have been playing LIT". But if there's only a slingshot as a weapon, then my last posting is obsolete.

salstadt, on Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:11 AM, said:

Kurt_Woloch, on Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:36 AM, said:

Hate to say it, but in view of the recent school shootings in Germany and Alabama I would actually vote for retracting this game from sale... shooting with guns in a school setting just doesn't feel right to me.

Slingshot, ala Dennis the Menace. No guns in LIT.

- Adam

[ZIMM]

Kurt_Woloch, on Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:49 AM, said:

Oh, sorry then... I misremembered that part. I just thought when I heard about the massacres "hey, those two people must have been playing LIT". But if there's only a slingshot as a weapon, then my last posting is obsolete.

salstadt, on Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:11 AM, said:

Kurt_Woloch, on Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:36 AM, said:

Hate to say it, but in view of the recent school shootings in Germany and Alabama I would actually vote for retracting this game from sale... shooting with guns in a school setting just doesn't feel right to me.

Slingshot, ala Dennis the Menace. No guns in LIT.

- Adam

but, can't a slingshot kill someone? depends on what you are using for ammo and how close you are to target, right?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Kurt_Woloch, on Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:36 AM, said:

Hate to say it, but in view of the recent school shootings in Germany and Alabama I would actually vote for retracting this game from sale... shooting with guns in a school setting just doesn't feel right to me.

2600 graphics are abstract enough, you just have to slightly change the storyline in the manual.

Or mayke the game completely abstract, a puzzle with no horror storyline at all.