Commodore 64 vs Atari 800 Xl

[TMR]

I mean that this place is for discussing old computers?

Old games?

 

This particular part of Atari Age isn't about discussing old games. It's not even exclusively about discussing old computers because the programming discussion can cover just about anything up to and including current generation hardware. It's about programming.

 

Not to make personal attacks?

 

And since you've been just as guilty of that as anyone else if not more so, admonishing people for doing it isn't going to hold water.

[PeteD]

 

Pete, i'm the first one to admit that i'm wrong and have done that several times in this thread. But what i certanly don't like is when people jump in just for a quick personal attack, and 5-6 against one isn't fair. What have you learned under this thread that wasn't what you first thought?

 

Nothing?

 

Or have you?

 

 

Just because someone jumps in with what you perceive as a personal attack doesn't mean you have to drag the rest of the forum into it. Does it not cross your mind for one second that the reason you're continually arguing with about five people is that maybe you're either wrong, being an ass or otherwise antagonising everyone?

 

As far as learning things, from you, nothing. From other people, not much as it's all been talk about either subjective stuff or arguing. There are things about POKEY that Bryan has brought up that I know "about" but don't know the in-depth technicalities behind them and atm don't need to as I'm not writing a POKEY player. When I do need to know, I now know he's one of the people likely to divulge the secrets.

[DimensionX]

I mean that this place is for discussing old computers?

Old games?

 

This particular part of Atari Age isn't about discussing old games. It's not even exclusively about discussing old computers because the programming discussion can cover just about anything up to and including current generation hardware. It's about programming.

 

Not to make personal attacks?

 

And since you've been just as guilty of that as anyone else if not more so, admonishing people for doing it isn't going to hold water.

 

I started this thread being polite. But when i got called idiot time after time by people who just jumped in for a quick attack, i kind of lost my temper. And when you don't admitted even one thing, i got tired. No matter what i showed you, it was all bad.

 

Then i'm not mr polite anymore.

[PeteD]

I mean that this place is for discussing old computers?

Old games?

 

This particular part of Atari Age isn't about discussing old games. It's not even exclusively about discussing old computers because the programming discussion can cover just about anything up to and including current generation hardware. It's about programming.

 

Not to make personal attacks?

 

And since you've been just as guilty of that as anyone else if not more so, admonishing people for doing it isn't going to hold water.

 

I started this thread being polite. But when i got called idiot time after time by people who just jumped in for a quick attack, i kind of lost my temper. And when you don't admitted even one thing, i got tired. No matter what i showed you, it was all bad.

 

Then i'm not mr polite anymore.

 

But don't you see? That's EXACTLY what you did to everyone else.. Post C64 shots, no, ugly, post comparisons to Crownland, no bad game. Does everyone have to agree with you to make you happy?

[DimensionX]

 

Pete, i'm the first one to admit that i'm wrong and have done that several times in this thread. But what i certanly don't like is when people jump in just for a quick personal attack, and 5-6 against one isn't fair. What have you learned under this thread that wasn't what you first thought?

 

Nothing?

 

Or have you?

 

 

Just because someone jumps in with what you perceive as a personal attack doesn't mean you have to drag the rest of the forum into it. Does it not cross your mind for one second that the reason you're continually arguing with about five people is that maybe you're either wrong, being an ass or otherwise antagonising everyone?

 

As far as learning things, from you, nothing. From other people, not much as it's all been talk about either subjective stuff or arguing. There are things about POKEY that Bryan has brought up that I know "about" but don't know the in-depth technicalities behind them and atm don't need to as I'm not writing a POKEY player. When I do need to know, I now know he's one of the people likely to divulge the secrets.

 

Off course you don't learn anything because everything someone else thinks, is wrong, or plain bad. And everything that someone shows you, is bad. Because you already knows everything better. You defend C64 to all costs. No matter what.

 

Well, you can continue doing that if you want. But i can tell you it's a long way to 16 bits.

[DimensionX]

I mean that this place is for discussing old computers?

Old games?

 

This particular part of Atari Age isn't about discussing old games. It's not even exclusively about discussing old computers because the programming discussion can cover just about anything up to and including current generation hardware. It's about programming.

 

Not to make personal attacks?

 

And since you've been just as guilty of that as anyone else if not more so, admonishing people for doing it isn't going to hold water.

 

I started this thread being polite. But when i got called idiot time after time by people who just jumped in for a quick attack, i kind of lost my temper. And when you don't admitted even one thing, i got tired. No matter what i showed you, it was all bad.

 

Then i'm not mr polite anymore.

 

But don't you see? That's EXACTLY what you did to everyone else.. Post C64 shots, no, ugly, post comparisons to Crownland, no bad game. Does everyone have to agree with you to make you happy?

 

No i didn't.

 

If people had been more polite, i had been soo much more nicer in this thread.

 

I even said.

 

Don't make me hate C64, because i really want to like ALL 8 bit computers.

 

But no, you continued...

[PeteD]

 

 

Off course you don't learn anything because everything someone else thinks, is wrong, or plain bad. And everything that someone shows you, is bad. Because you already knows everything better. You defend C64 to all costs. No matter what.

 

Well, you can continue doing that if you want. But i can tell you it's a long way to 16 bits.

 

No, that's your biased opinion because I don't like what YOU do. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you without posting crap like that then a forum isn't the best place for you.

 

I continually defend the Atari on this forum (I've even done so in this very thread) BUT I DO KNOW when someone is talking out their arse about it and THAT is when I'll defend the C64 instead. Of course you won't have read any of that because you've been so busy telling everyone what to think in this thread.

[TMR]

And since you've been just as guilty of that as anyone else if not more so, admonishing people for doing it isn't going to hold water.

 

I started this thread being polite.

 

Again doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. You can't get on your high horse to tell other people off for insults when you're just as guilty of it.

[PeteD]

 

No i didn't.

 

If people had been more polite, i had been soo much more nicer in this thread.

 

I even said.

 

Don't make me hate C64, because i really want to like ALL 8 bit computers.

 

But no, you continued...

 

So you've got a memory problem now? Maybe that explains the 2 channels thing, you forgot all about the last argument about channels just like you've conveniently forgotten about saying 99% of the C64 stuff people have posted is bad or not a good game, without even playing them..

[DimensionX]

 

 

Off course you don't learn anything because everything someone else thinks, is wrong, or plain bad. And everything that someone shows you, is bad. Because you already knows everything better. You defend C64 to all costs. No matter what.

 

Well, you can continue doing that if you want. But i can tell you it's a long way to 16 bits.

 

No, that's your biased opinion because I don't like what YOU do. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you without posting crap like that then a forum isn't the best place for you.

 

I continually defend the Atari on this forum (I've even done so in this very thread) BUT I DO KNOW when someone is talking out their arse about it and THAT is when I'll defend the C64 instead. Of course you won't have read any of that because you've been so busy telling everyone what to think in this thread.

 

Admit it, you are a C64 freak who defends the machine to all costs.

 

Because anyone can see that a mile away.

 

I like C64 too, but only when people don't try to make it look better by attacking another computer. Like i said early, both are great computers in their own rights.

 

Let me hear you say this?

 

I think that C64 and Atari are great, no one is the better computer.

 

I said it

 

Honestly

 

Can you?

 

No, you can't.

 

(how about that killer comment?)

Edited May 7, 2010 by DimensionX

[GroovyBee]

I started this thread being polite.

 

Erm.... This thread wasn't started by you.

 

But when i got called idiot time after time by people who just jumped in for a quick attack, i kind of lost my temper. And when you don't admitted even one thing, i got tired. No matter what i showed you, it was all bad.

 

Its been pointed out numerous times that you are in the programming forum. You will be treated differently in here because the people responding to this thread know their machines of choice inside out. Arguing with a bunch of programmers when you can't explain things in a technical manner or don't understand technical discussions isn't going to get you anywhere. For example, showing us screenshots of game comparisons is pretty futile when the people you are arguing with can all make a very good educated guess or know how the tricks were done or even examine the code for the real answers. If that make you feel inferior its up to you to get up to speed, if not you have to learn to stop arguing when you can't continue the debate at the level its been taken to. Failing to do that makes you look dumb. However, if you want to "entertain" the masses please post to the A8 general forum.

[PeteD]

 

 

Admit it, you are a C64 freak who defends the machine to all costs.

 

Because anyone can see that a mile away.

 

I like C64 too, but only when people don't try to make it look better by attacking another computer. Like i said early, both are great computers in their own rights.

 

Let me hear you say this?

 

I think that C64 and Atari are great, no one is the better computer.

 

I said it

 

Honestly

 

Can you?

 

No, you can't.

 

If that's the case, why am I defending A8, or is your memory so bad you've even forgotten that from my LAST post? I'm actually coding stuff for the machine, more so than the C64, how about you? Thought not.

 

As for "I think that C64 and Atari are great, no one is the better computer." you say that EVERY DAY then come back the next day with examples of where C64 is worse than every other computer ever built, be they A8, ST/Amiga, Megadrive, Spectrum.

 

I "prefer" the C64, It's what I've done the most stuff on in the past. I DO NOT think the Atari is bad, I DO NOT make up crap about the C64 to try to say it's better than anything else. If I say something about the C64 you can guarantee it is a fact, not a wikipedia one but one I've learned the hard way. The same goes for facts about the A8. I may not know as much as some people, I no doubt know more than others.

 

So now after your latest personal attack I wonder what will come as a reply to this post? More wounded victim nonsense I suppose..

[DimensionX]

I started this thread being polite.

 

Erm.... This thread wasn't started by you.

 

But when i got called idiot time after time by people who just jumped in for a quick attack, i kind of lost my temper. And when you don't admitted even one thing, i got tired. No matter what i showed you, it was all bad.

 

Its been pointed out numerous times that you are in the programming forum. You will be treated differently in here because the people responding to this thread know their machines of choice inside out. Arguing with a bunch of programmers when you can't explain things in a technical manner or don't understand technical discussions isn't going to get you anywhere. For example, showing us screenshots of game comparisons is pretty futile when the people you are arguing with can all make a very good educated guess or know how the tricks were done or even examine the code for the real answers. If that make you feel inferior its up to you to get up to speed, if not you have to learn to stop arguing when you can't continue the debate at the level its been taken to. Failing to do that makes you look dumb. However, if you want to "entertain" the masses please post to the A8 general forum.

 

"I started this thread"

 

Means that i was polite when i "started posting" in this thread.

 

Not when i started "the thread", because i hasn't.

 

You were one of those who just jumped in for a quick bite and then cowardly runned of to some other forum.

 

My first comment to you was a nice one, then you gave me a negativ comment back.

Edited May 7, 2010 by DimensionX

[DimensionX]

 

 

Admit it, you are a C64 freak who defends the machine to all costs.

 

Because anyone can see that a mile away.

 

I like C64 too, but only when people don't try to make it look better by attacking another computer. Like i said early, both are great computers in their own rights.

 

Let me hear you say this?

 

I think that C64 and Atari are great, no one is the better computer.

 

I said it

 

Honestly

 

Can you?

 

No, you can't.

 

If that's the case, why am I defending A8, or is your memory so bad you've even forgotten that from my LAST post? I'm actually coding stuff for the machine, more so than the C64, how about you? Thought not.

 

As for "I think that C64 and Atari are great, no one is the better computer." you say that EVERY DAY then come back the next day with examples of where C64 is worse than every other computer ever built, be they A8, ST/Amiga, Megadrive, Spectrum.

 

I "prefer" the C64, It's what I've done the most stuff on in the past. I DO NOT think the Atari is bad, I DO NOT make up crap about the C64 to try to say it's better than anything else. If I say something about the C64 you can guarantee it is a fact, not a wikipedia one but one I've learned the hard way. The same goes for facts about the A8. I may not know as much as some people, I no doubt know more than others.

 

So now after your latest personal attack I wonder what will come as a reply to this post? More wounded victim nonsense I suppose..

 

So you "prefer" C64.

 

Yet you working on Atari?

 

Why?

 

Why not working with the computer that you prefer?

 

At least you were honest. And i was right. You couldn't say that no one was the better computer.

[Bryan]

No i didn't.

 

If people had been more polite, i had been soo much more nicer in this thread.

 

I even said.

 

Don't make me hate C64, because i really want to like ALL 8 bit computers.

 

But no, you continued...

 

Here's some irony:

 

I actually warmed up to the 64 as a result of watching how a handful of Atari guys behaved in a debate. Basically, if you discover you can't stand with the group you're there to stand with, what do you do?

[DimensionX]

No i didn't.

 

If people had been more polite, i had been soo much more nicer in this thread.

 

I even said.

 

Don't make me hate C64, because i really want to like ALL 8 bit computers.

 

But no, you continued...

 

Here's some irony:

 

I actually warmed up to the 64 as a result of watching how a handful of Atari guys behaved in a debate. Basically, if you discover you can't stand with the group you're there to stand with, what do you do?

 

As long as people are nice. I don't care at all if i'm not right, but i do care if people call me for idiot. People who just jump in to do a quick attack.

 

I like the colours on A8.

 

Then people call me idiot?

 

If you have time, read the thread and see why i'm upset.

Edited May 7, 2010 by DimensionX

[PeteD]

 

 

So you "prefer" C64.

 

Yet you working on Atari?

 

Why?

 

Why not working with the computer that you prefer?

 

At least you were honest. And i was right. You couldn't say that no one was the better computer.

 

Because unlike you I'm willing to actually do something other than play games or post screenshots to find out which machine can do what.

 

And maybe you are right, I can't say which one is better. That means I can't say if C64 OR Atari is. Not just "to save people attacking me with pointless arguments I'll sit on the fence". I've got to prove to myself which is the most capable machine and so far I've not finished the things I want to on Atari.

 

With Atari, I KNOW it's got a faster CPU, I KNOW it's got full screen height hardware sprites, I KNOW it's got 128/256 colours, I KNOW it's got LMS to help with scrolling etc etc. However I KNOW lots of things on the C64 that either counter those things, are better than them or at least go some way to replicating them.

 

So yes, I "prefer" the C64, you don't have to guts to have a preference.

[DimensionX]

 

 

So you "prefer" C64.

 

Yet you working on Atari?

 

Why?

 

Why not working with the computer that you prefer?

 

At least you were honest. And i was right. You couldn't say that no one was the better computer.

 

Because unlike you I'm willing to actually do something other than play games or post screenshots to find out which machine can do what.

 

And maybe you are right, I can't say which one is better. That means I can't say if C64 OR Atari is. Not just "to save people attacking me with pointless arguments I'll sit on the fence". I've got to prove to myself which is the most capable machine and so far I've not finished the things I want to on Atari.

 

With Atari, I KNOW it's got a faster CPU, I KNOW it's got full screen height hardware sprites, I KNOW it's got 128/256 colours, I KNOW it's got LMS to help with scrolling etc etc. However I KNOW lots of things on the C64 that either counter those things, are better than them or at least go some way to replicating them.

 

So yes, I "prefer" the C64, you don't have to guts to have a preference.

 

Much better.

 

Now i understand why.

 

And think it was a good explanation.

[DimensionX]

I'll better log out for toonight.

 

I'm not a programmer and perhaps should post in another part of AtariAge from now on.

[PeteD]

Well, I'll take that in it's non-patronising form because I can't be bothered to ask any longer

[PeteD]

I'll better log out for toonight.

 

I'm not a programmer and perhaps should post in another part of AtariAge from now on.

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/forum/12-atari-8-bit-computers/

 

You'll find plenty of like minded people there and really is the place for most of what's been posted in this thread (apart from the arguments but they seem to crop up everywhere).

[TMR]

As long as people are nice. I don't care at all if i'm not right, but i do care if people call me for idiot. People who just jump in to do a quick attack.

 

And telling people who can program a computer what that machine is or isn't capable of just because you'd read it on wikipedia is hideously arrogant.

[DimensionX]

I'll better log out for toonight.

 

I'm not a programmer and perhaps should post in another part of AtariAge from now on.

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/forum/12-atari-8-bit-computers/

 

You'll find plenty of like minded people there and really is the place for most of what's been posted in this thread (apart from the arguments but they seem to crop up everywhere).

 

Thanks Pete, seems to be a more suitable part of the forum for me.

[DimensionX]

As long as people are nice. I don't care at all if i'm not right, but i do care if people call me for idiot. People who just jump in to do a quick attack.

 

And telling people who can program a computer what that machine is or isn't capable of just because you'd read it on wikipedia is hideously arrogant.

 

Not if it's about facts, that even shows in all screenshots. The ONLY thing i said was that colours is better on Atari because they are more clear and vivid, not to mention 256.

 

Then you can forget everything else, like i said. Forget sprites.

 

Further discussion unnecessary.

 

Goodnight TMR.

[PeteD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQNT9Whg4r4&feature=related a better example of sample stuff. Sounds a lot cleaner than the other one.

 

 

Pete