Happy 25th 7800 - Sales Figures Attached...

[Retro Rogue]

I think the picture of the company Tramiel actually pulled back from the grave is becoming clearer.

 

Tramiel didn't pull any company back from the grave, Atari Inc. died. Atari Corp. is a completely different corporate entity based off of Tramel Technology's absorption of the Atari Consumer properties. Where the confusion lies, is he took on Atari Inc.'s debt as part of the deal (and there was a lot of it), so Warner could remove it from the books. And yes, Tramiel did an amazing job clearing up that debt and turning it in to a profitable company (at least until he retired and Sam took over).

[atarian63]

Reads like a Who's who of distributors I used back then for Atari consumer.

S.E.D.

Almo

International

CSS

 

We used to buy tons from these distributors! Brings back fun times and the memories of the people we used to deal with.

 

The company I managed before owning my own is on the 2nd list

Video Express

Edited May 28, 2009 by atarian63

[Atarifever]

I think the picture of the company Tramiel actually pulled back from the grave is becoming clearer.

 

Tramiel didn't pull any company back from the grave, Atari Inc. died. Atari Corp. is a completely different corporate entity based off of Tramel Technology's absorption of the Atari Consumer properties. Where the confusion lies, is he took on Atari Inc.'s debt as part of the deal (and there was a lot of it), so Warner could remove it from the books. And yes, Tramiel did an amazing job clearing up that debt and turning it in to a profitable company (at least until he retired and Sam took over).

Six of one half dozen of the other is how I see that, but difference noted.

[kool kitty89]

Wow, roughly 3.77 million, not counting the limited 1984 release, and post 1990 sales. Cout it have possibly beaten Sega Master System Sales in the US?

 

Tramiel didn't pull any company back from the grave, Atari Inc. died. Atari Corp. is a completely different corporate entity based off of Tramel Technology's absorption of the Atari Consumer properties. Where the confusion lies, is he took on Atari Inc.'s debt as part of the deal (and there was a lot of it), so Warner could remove it from the books. And yes, Tramiel did an amazing job clearing up that debt and turning it in to a profitable company (at least until he retired and Sam took over).

 

Yep, some of the products were retained, and some of the employees as well, but it was a different company. Though I suppose one could argue that Atari wasn't the "true" Atari after Bushnell left, it certainly changed.

 

 

Interesting thoughts from Curt on the ST based game console in place of the XEGS, I wonder how low they could have gotten the cost.

Edited May 29, 2009 by kool kitty89

[Murph74]

Once again, don't forget, these are 'left the warehouse' numbers, not to be confused with 'in homes' numbers.

 

I just peeked at the 1989 Sears Christmas catalog, and for reference, at the time, system pricing looked something like this 20 years ago...

 

$ 99 NES Action pack (SMB/Duckhunt)

$149 NES Power Pack (Dance Pad Type System)

$189 Sega Genesis (Altered Beast)

$ 59 Atari 7800

$ 89 Nintendo Gameboy

(SMS was in there too, but I didn't note the price)

 

7800 games mostly were at the $24.99 level, some at the $17.99 level.

 

There's a snapshot of system pricing. the 7800 isn't in my 1986 Catalog (NES is, with a $89 Control Deck), and I don't have 1987.

 

So the retail pricing, at least in this instance, can't be derived from Curt's sales sheets as most prices there are between $20 & $30 wholesale per unit based on how I read those numbers. But it still was the cheapest system of the bunch.

 

My experience in retail tells me that quite a few of these potentially never found a home. They very easily could have been written off and destroyed or still in a warehouse somewhere long forgotten. But point is, it would have been a hard sell to most kids after 1986 with NES's proliferation. I'm sure there was still a market, but it was quickly fading.

[DracIsBack]

My experience in retail tells me that quite a few of these potentially never found a home. They very easily could have been written off and destroyed or still in a warehouse somewhere long forgotten.

 

A couple of things:

 

- If they were written off, it would have shown up in later numbers as an return from the account. Maybe not always in the same year, but RMA's could have followed in the following year.

 

- Very few retailers do anything out of "niceness". If it wasn't moving, they wouldn't have kept it and said, "oh well, let's write it off". They'd have sent it back to Atari, who would have had to - under stockholder laws - reported it as a return.

 

- The other thing is that retailers most definitely do not by several years worth of inventory in advance. Usually they review inventory on a quarterly or - at worst - yearly basis. If the 7800 wasn't "moving", you would have seen it RMA heavily in 1986, 1987, 1988 etc.

 

. And if you follow the numbers closely, RMAs started really happening en-masse in 1989 and 1990 ... around the time retailers were preparing for the Sega Genesis, Turbografx-16 and Super Nintendo.

 

Yes, a small segment probably went to user groups. A small segment probably went to reviewers, software developers etc. But millions more went into retail.

 

But what you see looks very much like an by-account sell in report that I've seen in every high tech company I've ever worked at. If the units get sold, more got sold in. If the units didn't get sold, they got sent back.

 

ut point is, it would have been a hard sell to most kids after 1986 with NES's proliferation. I'm sure there was still a market, but it was quickly fading.

 

Think logically about this. If there was little opportunity after 1986, why did the retailers move so many in 1987 and 1988? If the 7800s didn't "sell", the retailers wouldn't have stockpiled them and ordered more to fill up the shelves. They'd send them back.

 

The NES did indeed proliferate. Even if the 7800 did sell 3.7 million units, how many did the NES sell? 40 million? With the market growing as quickly as it was, there was opportunity for more than one player. There are lots of companies that make a fortune having a niche in a large market.

Edited May 29, 2009 by DracIsBack

[atarian63]

Once again, don't forget, these are 'left the warehouse' numbers, not to be confused with 'in homes' numbers.

 

I just peeked at the 1989 Sears Christmas catalog, and for reference, at the time, system pricing looked something like this 20 years ago...

 

$ 99 NES Action pack (SMB/Duckhunt)

$149 NES Power Pack (Dance Pad Type System)

$189 Sega Genesis (Altered Beast)

$ 59 Atari 7800

$ 89 Nintendo Gameboy

(SMS was in there too, but I didn't note the price)

 

7800 games mostly were at the $24.99 level, some at the $17.99 level.

 

There's a snapshot of system pricing. the 7800 isn't in my 1986 Catalog (NES is, with a $89 Control Deck), and I don't have 1987.

 

So the retail pricing, at least in this instance, can't be derived from Curt's sales sheets as most prices there are between $20 & $30 wholesale per unit based on how I read those numbers. But it still was the cheapest system of the bunch.

 

My experience in retail tells me that quite a few of these potentially never found a home. They very easily could have been written off and destroyed or still in a warehouse somewhere long forgotten. But point is, it would have been a hard sell to most kids after 1986 with NES's proliferation. I'm sure there was still a market, but it was quickly fading.

We sold tons of them in 86 an alot in 87 as well, also a surprise during the late 80's was 2600jr sales. It was so cheap,people would buy 2 or 3.

We also sold lots of intellivision. We bought 2 semi loads of Intellivisions,with lots of peripherals like synsonic drums,keyboards etc. All had gotten some light water damage to the boxes but everything inside was fine. If I recall we were paying 5cents on the dollars for those spoiled goods. In 85 and 86 there were still lots of distributor closeouts, they wanted to move large volumes so badly that we got a semi per week from one distributer under the get it now,pay when you can deal. This went on for quite some time.

In 86 we were getting 1 semiload of Atari 800xl and 1050 drives in box per month as well as some crazy cheap composite color monitor(name escapes me now)sold those for $69 new(this is 1986 mind you and that was cheap!) and we sold many hundreds while we could get them. We used to have these great hotel sales where we would just dump all of the hardware and software at super cheap prices just to move it as we had more coming in. Items that were 19.99 retail were were selling at $1.99 to $2.99 for 10 or more games. Those were insane days.

We once bought 10000 Mr Robot games. Sold through bunches at $1 each, made the rest into bulk disk 50 packs.

Guess you had to be there. The locals loved it and the employees used to wait with a large box when we got a semi in and pick what they wanted at cost which we then just took out of their paycheck. I think some of them were working for nothing some weeks.

Good times!

Edited May 29, 2009 by atarian63

[Murph74]

Think logically about this. If there was little opportunity after 1986, why did the retailers move so many in 1987 and 1988? If the 7800s didn't "sell", the retailers wouldn't have stockpiled them and ordered more to fill up the shelves. They'd send them back.

 

The NES did indeed proliferate. Even if the 7800 did sell 3.7 million units, how many did the NES sell? 40 million? With the market growing as quickly as it was, there was opportunity for more than one player. There are lots of companies that make a fortune having a niche in a large market.

 

All good points, Drac. I guess if your theory is more accurate (which it very well could be), then the problem wasn't getting the units out there, the problem profiting from them. Whether it's the profiting of the hardware sales (which looks to be minimal by this point most likely at <$30 per unit, sometimes half of that), or via software sales (a huge cash flow generator for Nintendo as I understand it thanks to their lockout chip and licensing).

 

As for the retail aspects of it, I guess it depends on the sales agreements, as I was much more accustomed to markdowns to below cost with a credit from the vendor or a completely destroyed writeoff than I minimal amount that actually got RMA'd to the manufacturer. Typically I seem t recall we only RMA'd things that were actually current model defective returns. This was in the early 90's Bizmart/Office Max era. How the manufacturer listed or handled the credits is a completely different issue, and a matter for the creative book cookers to figure out. lol

[kool kitty89]

Remember though that the NES was on the market for a long time, and in addition to that, consoles continue to sell for rediculously long periods in Japan. (it was discontinued in the US in 1995, but not in Japan until 2003! Super NES was discontinued simultaneously) That's 20 years in that market! (Famicom released in 1983) The Famicom is like the Japanese equivelent of what the VCS/2600 was in the US, but even more extreme. Even then the 7800 was discontinued before the NES in the US...

 

BTW on the market prices, not really too much of a resourse, but some can be seen in this news report from

 

Wow, is that an Atari XE for $100, nest to the $90 7800, and $50 2600?

(note: the date listed by the video's poster is obviously erronious, as is his discription, it sounds like 1987, just before the launch of the XEGS)

 

 

Also, the Atari name still had a very strong presence at the time, and even by 1987/88 Nintendo was still pretty new and had just really become a household name across the country. (and still unfamiliar to many who were probably familiar with Atari)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGFRi_ueq-M

Edited May 29, 2009 by kool kitty89

[DracIsBack]

All good points, Drac. I guess if your theory is more accurate (which it very well could be), then the problem wasn't getting the units out there, the problem profiting from them.

 

Could be. I remember reading once how Michael Katz from Atari commented how amazingly profitable the Atari consoles were for a while. My theory was that this is because they spent so little on advertising and licensing relative to the competition.

 

 

As for the retail aspects of it, I guess it depends on the sales agreements, as I was much more accustomed to markdowns to below cost with a credit from the vendor or a completely destroyed writeoff than I minimal amount that actually got RMA'd to the manufacturer.

 

 

Sorry, I should have been more clear about what I meant by "RMA". You're completely right in that each retailer will have different sales agreements. Some will send back. Some will do a DIF ("Destroy in Field") for a credit, provided proof of destruction is provided. Others will do a "price protection" markdown (hence all the "50% clearence sales") that is funded by the manufacturer. In that case the vendor would lower the price and credit the vendor the difference in their distribution cost for units they still have in stock. Units not sold have that will either get returned, destroyed or marked down again. Either way though, they come off the vendor's revenue line.

 

In my experience (which may not be the norm), high margin products like paperback books and software products are more apt to be destroyed in field and given credit upon proof of destruction. Not always, but it's cheaper for everyone to destroy and move on if your gross margin is 90%.

 

Hardware can have much lower gross margins (ie 30-45%, IIRC) so in some cases it may be cheaper to take back and try to resell.

 

Vendors also have the option of doing short term promotions such as funding an instant or mail-in rebate to temporarily lower the price to boost sales. (ie. $20 off the 7800 this week). Sometimes the retailers will kick in a portion, though the vendor usually pays for it. Mail-ins were preferred because fewer than half of people would redeem them and they could still advertise the full amount off. Usually, that goes along with a flyer ad like you see in Best Buy to promote the sale. The vendor also usually foots the bill for that, not the store ... and they aren't cheap! Ads in a Best Buy flyer can be as much or more than a major magazine.

 

One thing I remember the Tramiels doing pretty aggressively was retail promotion and advertising. Not a lot in the way of print ads and tv ads, but I saw their stuff in catalogs, newspaper flyers etc.

[kool kitty89]

All good points, Drac. I guess if your theory is more accurate (which it very well could be), then the problem wasn't getting the units out there, the problem profiting from them. Whether it's the profiting of the hardware sales (which looks to be minimal by this point most likely at <$30 per unit, sometimes half of that), or via software sales (a huge cash flow generator for Nintendo as I understand it thanks to their lockout chip and licensing).

 

I mised this point earlier, but it should be noted that the 7800 introduced a lock-out system (copyright/piracy protection) as well, only switching to 7800 mode after unlocking/verification of authenticity, otherwise leaving it in 2600 mode.

 

And of course the lockout chips were hardley fool proof, there were plenty of unlicenced (and some pirate) NES as well Sega Genesis games, of course the Famicom had even more of a problem, especially in other parts of Asia and Russia too, as there was not protection at all. (and the general nature of the markes in those regions) The 10NES system was fairly easy to bypass for 3rd parties not wanting to put up with Nintendo's restrictive licencing (or not big/wealthy enough to set up subsidiaries to get arround some of the limitations ie Ultra of Konami). CodeMasters (released under Camerica) as well as others like Color Dreams, simply used a voltage spiking mechanism to glitch the lockout chip, while Atari (as Tengen) actually went to the trouble of reverse engineering their own "Rabbit" chip, which ironically led to legal disputes with nintendo. (while the simpler glitching system had no bearing on such matters, though I do thinkNintendo attempted leagal action with these in some cases too)

 

Could be. I remember reading once how Michael Katz from Atari commented how amazingly profitable the Atari consoles were for a while. My theory was that this is because they spent so little on advertising and licensing relative to the competition.

 

You could also mention that Katz also worked for Mattel, did marketing for Coleco, and was later the president of Sega of America as well. (89-91)

[Dan Iacovelli]

There is an Atari Chicago in there. Anybody know anything about this?

 

Allan

looking at the year: I would say Atari chicago was Atari Entertainment division(this was when the computer and video game divisions split

the computers stayed in CA while the video games went to IL(Lombard,IL to be exact)

AVC Online had a connection with them Tom Crosby who was doing Pr for Atari Entertainment, at the time.

I wish Ihad one of those 7800 on loan back then, got mine for xmas when it first came out.

[carmel_andrews]

Reads like a Who's who of distributors I used back then for Atari consumer.

S.E.D.

Almo

International

CSS

 

We used to buy tons from these distributors! Brings back fun times and the memories of the people we used to deal with.

 

The company I managed before owning my own is on the 2nd list

Video Express

 

 

 

 

 

well it's nice to see someone that was on the front line and pretty close to the horses mouth (though it seems you didn;'t deal with the big A directly)

 

perhaps you have some titbits or information that us peeps aren't or weren't privy to atarian

[DanBoris]

To me, the most interesting part to see are the company names listed in the loan units. Some good software houses in there that did nothing for the machine .

 

 

Like these?

 

L001038 - IBID INC. 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001042 - BOB VIERA 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001045 - COMPUTER MANIA 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001047 - DAVID PAYNE 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001048 - LAWRENCE HALL OF SCIENCE 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001050 - ANDROMEDA SOFTWARE 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001051 - SORJANA PUBLICATIONS 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001052 - ULTIMATE SUPPORT SYSTEMS 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001056 - COMPUTER CURRICULUM CORP 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001058 - COMPUTER CURRICULUM CORP 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001059 - COMPUTER CURRICULUM CORP 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001060 - IMA 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001061 - COMPUTER & SOFTWARE NEWS 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001062 - AKRON BEACON JOURNAL 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001063 - COMPUTER CURRICULM 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001064 - M.I.S. WEEK 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001065 - DESKTOP PUBLISHING JOURNA 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001066 - MILATARI 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001067 - SOFTGOLD GMBH 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001068 - U.S. VIDEO GAME TEAM 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001075 - WOLFRAM RESEARCH 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001079 - BORLAND INTERNATIONAL 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001083 - DAVE SMALL & ASSOCIATES 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001088 - GRIFFITH OBSERVATORY 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001096 - PRODIGY SERVICES 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001109 - KENNETH HILL 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001111 - VIDEO CONNECTIONS 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001113 - N VIEW CORP. 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001115 - ELECTRONIC GAME PLAYER 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001121 - EXIDY, INC 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001123 - AMIDEI & CO. 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001128 - DRAUDT & ASSOCIATES 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001131 - MILWAUKEE JOURNAL 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001132 - LIZ METZGER 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001159 - D.M. PRODUCTS 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001168 - JOE COPSON 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001172 - MEDIA WEST 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001184 - U.S. GOLD 0 $.00 0 $.00

L001196 - I.T.D.C. 0 $.00 0 $.00

 

Interesting. I see Joe Copson of 5200 Star Raiders and Elevator Action fame was possible working on a 7800 game in 1987. Cool.

 

Maybe somebody could find some prototypes by using this list.

 

Allan

 

Another interesting company on that list is WOLFRAM RESEARCH. They were founded in 1987 and went on to create Mathematica. Wonder if they were looking to get into the video game business at first.

 

Dan

[kool kitty89]

Are the sales figures for worldwide or just US/North America?

[8th lutz]

Are the sales figures for worldwide or just US/North America?

US/North America

[MegaManFan]

To me it's not at all shocking the 7800 could have sold almost two million units in one year. No conspiracy theories that a bunch were unsold and destroyed are necessary. Just put yourself in the shoes of the parent - your kid wants a game system, Nintendo is awfully expensive, but hey there's this Atari 7800 and it's under $100 and look at all these arcade games it can play. SOLD. The kid whines he can't play Super Mario or Mega Man, the parent says you wanted a game system well you got one. If their only competition was Sega Master System at the time, they may have outsold it on name equity alone. The name Sega on a game console (sadly) didn't mean much in the U.S. until the Genesis came along.

 

PS: Funny how that never worked for me at that age. I bitched and moaned and never even got a 7800. I got a GameBoy - one of those brick sized ones that came with Tetris. My best friend did loan me his Sega Master System for about six months though when he got bored with it. *heh*

Edited August 4, 2009 by MegaManFan

[Joey Kay]

I susp[ect these figures are USA only.

 

Atari Canada is nowhere to be seen in here, neither are the Canadian retailers that carried the 7800 (ie - Toy City).

[Retro Rogue]

I susp[ect these figures are USA only.

 

Atari Canada is nowhere to be seen in here, neither are the Canadian retailers that carried the 7800 (ie - Toy City).

 

 

What gave it away? The fact that every column is entitled either "US Sales" or "US Returns"?

[Joey Kay]

Are the sales figures for worldwide or just US/North America?

US/North America

 

 

I susp[ect these figures are USA only.

 

Atari Canada is nowhere to be seen in here, neither are the Canadian retailers that carried the 7800 (ie - Toy City).

 

 

What gave it away? The fact that every column is entitled either "US Sales" or "US Returns"?

 

Hah! Good call - this was meant in reply to 8th lutz, but perhaps I could have pointed to the more obvious.

 

Now back to my Mensa meeting...

Edited August 7, 2009 by Joey Kay

[atarian63]

Reads like a Who's who of distributors I used back then for Atari consumer.

S.E.D.

Almo

International

CSS

 

We used to buy tons from these distributors! Brings back fun times and the memories of the people we used to deal with.

 

The company I managed before owning my own is on the 2nd list

Video Express

 

 

 

 

 

well it's nice to see someone that was on the front line and pretty close to the horses mouth (though it seems you didn;'t deal with the big A directly)

 

perhaps you have some titbits or information that us peeps aren't or weren't privy to atarian

What would you like to know? Mostly Atari sold only to chains and distributors though at various times you could buy direct. The quataties were huge in order to do so, though under tramiel Atari not so much and you could buy some items direct. Atari kept changing the terms of who and how much you had to buy. Tramiel wanted you to buy through and authorized distributor,kind of like Commodore Amiga did. You could always buy service part through Atari if you were an authorized dealer. We were there during the great liquidations of the 80's which still went on up into 88 for many companies including coleco and Intellivision. We used to buy truckloads as in 53" truckloads of 800xl's and 1050 drives as well as printers etc. We were doing 1 per month. Most of it was coming in through distributors like International. They really wanted to be rid of it all. So much so they would truck it out to us and we could pay as we sold at a price to be determined later.

[atarian63]

To me it's not at all shocking the 7800 could have sold almost two million units in one year. No conspiracy theories that a bunch were unsold and destroyed are necessary. Just put yourself in the shoes of the parent - your kid wants a game system, Nintendo is awfully expensive, but hey there's this Atari 7800 and it's under $100 and look at all these arcade games it can play. SOLD. The kid whines he can't play Super Mario or Mega Man, the parent says you wanted a game system well you got one. If their only competition was Sega Master System at the time, they may have outsold it on name equity alone. The name Sega on a game console (sadly) didn't mean much in the U.S. until the Genesis came along.

 

PS: Funny how that never worked for me at that age. I bitched and moaned and never even got a 7800. I got a GameBoy - one of those brick sized ones that came with Tetris. My best friend did loan me his Sega Master System for about six months though when he got bored with it. *heh*

When Tramiel finally release the system we sold tons! You are probably right. Lots of parents bought it as it was cheaper and had a name they knew. We had lot's of 2600 closeouts around so at the time it looked like selection was great!

[Lynxpro]

The Milwaukee Journal is not a software house to my knowledge.

I never said it was. For some reason what tickled me most was seeing Borland International in there.

Allen listed it with software houses. I even seen another newspaper in his list.

Actually the list was loaned 7800s. That could be for reviews or other things as well as development.

 

Allan

 

 

Yes, there were Atari user groups in the list as well - such as Milatari.

 

 

 

That really sucks. I don't recall ACCESS here in Sacramento getting any loaner equipment and we had a pretty large user's group before the ST portion broke away to create its own user's group...

[Lynxpro]

I think the picture of the company Tramiel actually pulled back from the grave is becoming clearer.

 

Tramiel didn't pull any company back from the grave, Atari Inc. died. Atari Corp. is a completely different corporate entity based off of Tramel Technology's absorption of the Atari Consumer properties. Where the confusion lies, is he took on Atari Inc.'s debt as part of the deal (and there was a lot of it), so Warner could remove it from the books. And yes, Tramiel did an amazing job clearing up that debt and turning it in to a profitable company (at least until he retired and Sam took over).

 

 

 

Don't make him sound like such a hero. He "bought" the company in an accounting maneuver to improve Warner's stock in order to fight off Rupert Murdoch's hostile takeover [of Warner]. People keep on omitting this from the Atari historical account on these forums. Tramiel's purchase was with about $350 million in promissory notes, i.e. monopoly money equal to the number of 800XLs sitting in the warehouses at the time valued at $80 per unit. Warner had no intention of selling off the company in full which is why Ross rejected Philips offer to purchase 100% of the company. Ross insisted on keeping a 25% stake in the new company and Warner did so [well, sometimes dipping to 22% and sometimes above 25%] throughout the history of Atari Corp. even when [Time] Warner was also hedging their bets by investing in 3DO. [To this day, Warner is hedging bets; they are one of the investors in OnLive which will probably turn out to be a gimmick].

 

Tramiel did not spend his own cash on the acquisition. He did sink in something like $10 million during the rough development time of the ST according to what I've read elsewhere but the "repayments" to Warner came from Atari's profits - not Tramiel's checkbook - which came from you and me buying Atari products since we were good Atarians. Tramiel finally paid off the Warner debt when the Atari Corp. IPO happened.

 

Had Rupert Murdoch not been an a$$ - who ultimately bought 20th Century Fox - Warner would not have dumped Atari Inc. [thus it wouldn't have "died"] and Morgan probably could've turned the company around on his own. Instead, we got the sucky history that happened and James Morgan will forever be remembered by the public as the tobacco executive who told Congress that cigarettes were about as addictive as gummy bears.

[Retro Rogue]

Don't make him sound like such a hero.

 

Wasn't aware anyone was, but how about this - don't have such a complex about the man that you have to go from old thread to old thread on some sort of crusade. Regardless of your personal issues, he still did what we said he did.

 

He "bought" the company

 

He didn't buy the company, he bought a division. Specifically Atari Consumer.

 

in an accounting maneuver to improve Warner's stock in order to fight off Rupert Murdoch's hostile takeover [of Warner]. People keep on omitting this from the Atari historical account on these forums. Tramiel's purchase was with about $350 million in promissory notes, i.e. monopoly money equal to the number of 800XLs sitting in the warehouses at the time valued at $80 per unit. Warner had no intention of selling off the company in full which is why Ross rejected Philips offer to purchase 100% of the company. Ross insisted on keeping a 25% stake in the new company and Warner did so [well, sometimes dipping to 22% and sometimes above 25%] throughout the history of Atari Corp. even when [Time] Warner was also hedging their bets by investing in 3DO....etc., etc. about purchase....

 

Great, and how is any of that new?