GroovyBee Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Currently HSC compatible software looks at two "magic locations" in the HSC ROM space to determine if its present. Could the the detection of the expansion module do the same with two different locations? Then all the new homebrew software wouldn't have to detect POKEYs or extra RAM. E.g. Software :- Read address X and Y and compare values to determine if HSC present. Read address P and Q and compare values to determine if expansion module is present. If expansion module present configure POKEY and RAM. Maybe the software could read another location to determine the RAM size available? The HSC ROM needs too much precious internal memory to work with in our games . Can that be issue be addressed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etschuetz Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Lots of good info here. I just want to throw in a "wish list" if I may.... Add some form of ability to do save states of any cart. Not just HSC compatible carts. I liked someones idea on Game Genie type cheats. Create a whole new sub-genre to the 7800 - Cheat Code Creaters Club CuttleCart type support with an SD card slot of some sort to all the use of BINS (regardless of being either 2600 or 7800 roms) I really like the idea of support for Atari Computer peripherals. How about some sort of Networking interface like that old Modem device for Genesis/SNES back in the 90's? That is a BIG Wish there, I am sure. To do some of the stuff, like the ROMs and Save states would probably require a specialized firmware OS...more than likely based on Linux. Save states could be loaded automatically based on the game inserted. The only real issue I see here is creating a software pass through. The OS wold have to load up before the game was allowed to actually start. Of course, this would be similar to how the old Game Genie and Action Replay carts worked. Incorporating the Cheat system with the Save state loader would save time and possible space. The issue with Game cheats would be adding in to the expansion the ability to read memory and determine what memory does what at what times. Perhaps, those with the programming know how would be able to implement some advice to would be cheat code creators on how to do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 To do some of the stuff, like the ROMs and Save states would probably require a specialized firmware OS...more than likely based on Linux. Linux on a 6502? :lol: :lol: Are you mad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 To do some of the stuff, like the ROMs and Save states would probably require a specialized firmware OS...more than likely based on Linux. Linux on a 6502? :lol: :lol: Are you mad? Yeah I was kinda thinking the same thing but then realized all the amazing things that have been accomplished with the 6502. I'm willing to bet there is a Linux version out there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanallan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Unix is definitely possible on the 6502, just not in any of the present forms. Just as many amazing things have been done with Linux as there have been with that processor. No MMU? Go with ELKS linux. It runs on lots of older devices. Put it on a cart with some extra hardware. Anyway. Curt's really good about designing in places on a board for future expansion (a la FB2) so why not leave a space open for a second processor that can definitely handle unix/linux in the expansion? Or specialty games specifically for use with the expansion? I'm nowhere near versed enough to guess where/when/how. I just know that when an idea floats around long enough, regardless of how crazy or impossible it sounds, someone makes it happen. This could be one of those ideas. There was a question about if this will affect future development of games and carts. Sure it will. The supercharger did, iirc, there are games designed to work with it. I wouldn't be surprised if someone made a pass thru cart in the future to be used with the expansion that won't work with a stock 7800. I say go for it. It's a great hobby and the 7800 really needs some more love anyway. Bit of a rant, sorry about that. It's neat how this thread and the one about having a processor on a 2600 cart are so closely related. I see a convergence very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Why would anyone want to run Linux or Unix on a 7800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanallan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 That occurred to me, too, but I figured what the hell and went with it. A person a while back had an idea of using an OS on the 2600 as a basic front loader for games, it may be able to do that also. HERE it is, an old thread but still a classic. I had an idea to use it in the FB2 portable but that never happened, so the OS never got past that point. Neat idea, imho needs to be followed up on, but that's just me. 'Never see a 7800 running linux/unix, but it can be friends with it. Too many possibilities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Will there be any issues using a Cuttle Cart II with its capabilities such as high score support on this device? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Why would anyone want to run Linux or Unix on a 7800 I'm actually surprised that nobody brought it up sooner. There's some instinctive urge among hardware hackers that makes them want to run Linux on everything imaginable, whether it would have any practical use or not. Kind of like the guy who made a GBA into a web server years ago, "just to see if he could do it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrekMD Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 This looks like a fascinating idea. If it does become availabe, I would be interested in getting one of these modules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanallan Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Just had a brainstorm. How about a front-loading program to let you "hot-swap" carts? Maybe in a small rom in the expansion? Too much?? Would something like this be even feasible?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etschuetz Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Lots of good info here. I just want to throw in a "wish list" if I may.... Add some form of ability to do save states of any cart. Not just HSC compatible carts. I liked someones idea on Game Genie type cheats. Create a whole new sub-genre to the 7800 - Cheat Code Creaters Club CuttleCart type support with an SD card slot of some sort to all the use of BINS (regardless of being either 2600 or 7800 roms) I really like the idea of support for Atari Computer peripherals. How about some sort of Networking interface like that old Modem device for Genesis/SNES back in the 90's? That is a BIG Wish there, I am sure. To do some of the stuff, like the ROMs and Save states would probably require a specialized firmware OS...more than likely based on Linux. Save states could be loaded automatically based on the game inserted. The only real issue I see here is creating a software pass through. The OS wold have to load up before the game was allowed to actually start. Of course, this would be similar to how the old Game Genie and Action Replay carts worked. Incorporating the Cheat system with the Save state loader would save time and possible space. The issue with Game cheats would be adding in to the expansion the ability to read memory and determine what memory does what at what times. Perhaps, those with the programming know how would be able to implement some advice to would be cheat code creators on how to do so? Sad, quoting myself here, but oh well... The reason I suggested Linux, or at least some form of Unix, was to act as a means of handling the "features" I would wish for. You don't need a full spread OS involved, just the basic kernel, along with the necessary programs/files/drivers/etc to handle the functions such as BIN/ROM loading, SAV feature, Game Genie type cheat support, etc. If not Linux, the only other option is creating a basic firmware OS using 6502 code, all made from scratch...anyone up for that? Didn't think so. The use of a stripped down Linux OS would be easiest. Linux, depending on the kernel version was always designed for flexibility and compatibility. Most people think of Linux in the forms of Red Hat or Ubuntu, loaded with features. However, I run a version of Linux called "Freesco" that is designed to work on older 386 processors and up, and fits entirely ona Floppy. After I installed it, I added needed features that I wanted to take advantage of. Implementing this whole concept wouldn't be outrageous. If the Linux kernel did have issues, slapping in a compatible mircoprocessor would add price, but also maybe additional functionality. However, in the vein of keeping this inexpensive, just shaving down the kernel enough to provide only the needed functions isn't outrageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathanallan Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 right, like a front end for loading programs and handling the extra stuff. I had a similar idea. Following this, maybe it could be used to hot-swap carts, activating and deactivating as needed, the Expansion providing all this instruction. Mounting/unmounting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaWarrior Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 When will it be done & how will the games look on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biscuitdough Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I missed my chance at the cuttle cart 2, didn't care much for the emulation aspect, but im still desperate for some kind of high score cart to play the original 1984 games like they were ment to be. if you can keep it below 100$, im in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I missed my chance at the cuttle cart 2, didn't care much for the emulation aspect.... What emulation aspect? desiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) I wonder if Curt has had a chance to work on this. Edited October 23, 2009 by HammR25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biscuitdough Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I missed my chance at the cuttle cart 2, didn't care much for the emulation aspect.... What emulation aspect? desiv I meant the flash cart aspect, there isn't a huge homebrew community around the 7800, the 7800 doesnt have a large library of games, almost all of the games can be had for under 50 bucks (at most). honestly the few 7800 homebrews released id rather buy and support the author, than load it up onto a cart. in terms of the 2800 library, most of the really great games can be had for pennies, there are alot of obscurities, but they are not really must play because of their gameplay. there are some prototypes, and smaller demos that it might be nice to have a flash cart for, but other than that, it was just too expensive for such a small/cheap library of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 Just wondering if this project is still active... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted April 6, 2010 Author Share Posted April 6, 2010 Hi, Yes, still active, I've messed around with 3 different approaches, but trying to nail down a few key things which are still bugging me a bit which is ram and pokey, HSC built in is down and in the design, I'm looking at a few things and actually going back to talk with some of the GCC guys and ask them some of their approaches and what problems they encountered. Curt Just wondering if this project is still active... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Excellent, glad to know. It's funny that I asked Marty about that during MGC and he told he wasn't aware about the project, so I feared the worst. I hope homebrewers support it with lots of games. Oh, and the case is soooo cool, I cannot wait to see it materialize. Atari was king with designs... Hi, Yes, still active, I've messed around with 3 different approaches, but trying to nail down a few key things which are still bugging me a bit which is ram and pokey, HSC built in is down and in the design, I'm looking at a few things and actually going back to talk with some of the GCC guys and ask them some of their approaches and what problems they encountered. Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARMIK Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 This sounds awesome I would defiantly want one if you can make it happen Curt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Hi, Yes, still active, I've messed around with 3 different approaches, but trying to nail down a few key things which are still bugging me a bit which is ram and pokey, HSC built in is down and in the design, I'm looking at a few things and actually going back to talk with some of the GCC guys and ask them some of their approaches and what problems they encountered. Curt I'm glad to hear this is still being worked on. It's a real pity that the 7800 expansion port didn't include more CPU lines; this would have made it so much easier to design the expansion module as a convenient sidecar peripheral, without having to go through the joystick ports or the cartridge slot. It would have been great to have something along the lines of the ECS Computer Module for the Intellivision, only built around the POKEY chip for the 7800: extra controller inputs, a keyboard interface, more sound channels, and an SIO port (plus more RAM). The issue of whether to include the extra controller inputs came up earlier, and for whatever it's worth, I think it would be useful to have them for several reasons. In addition to being able to sample the paddles more conveniently through POKEY (making it much easier to develop 7800 paddle games), the extra ports would also provide a way to plug in the AtariVox and SaveKey devices while still having two joysticks plugged into the main console. But whether they are included or not, I definitely agree with the idea of using POKEY to its fullest possible potential: it always struck me as a tremendous waste that the 7800 has (so far) used POKEY only for upgraded sound. Speaking of the SaveKey, I've been wondering about a possible upgrade to the High Score Cartridge design. Instead of using battery-backed SRAM (or even flash), could the routines in the HSC ROM be rewritten to use a dedicated portion of the SaveKey for the score data instead? If so, would this be backward-compatible with the existing HSC-enabled 7800 games, or do they contain their own routines for manipulating the data in the HSC directly? (I really should look through the source code to answer that one myself). This idea occurred to me because it would separate the score data out from the hardware and onto a little SaveKey, making it even more convenient to carry your scores from one console to another--which is, after all, what the HSC was designed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 I was wondering, does having a POKEY make possible to use Sega Genesis controllers with a lots of buttons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 I was wondering, does having a POKEY make possible to use Sega Genesis controllers with a lots of buttons? Only if the game supports it and the joystick connector has the connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.