442 replies to this topic

[opcode]

corbysatarigame, on Thu Jul 9, 2009 1:41 PM, said:

kong sorta grabs the barrels alittle fast doesn't he?

Hehe... Perhaps you are too used to the "other" versions...
Actually exact same speed. Please check MAME.
BTW, just found a couple of bugs in the sprite driver. Ok, more than a couple actually. Anyway everything fixed: wrong colors, barrels not animating correcting when using ladders and skull barrels had sprite problems. I should post a new video shortly. I think I will take the chance and also add the oil drum fire animation, so screen 1 is complete.
Pixelboy, I checked CPU usage and stage 1 actually doesn't use a lot more CPU than the other stages. Free CPU is still 40% or more.

[opcode]

yurkie, on Thu Jul 9, 2009 9:22 AM, said:

opcode,

The game looks Awesome so far.

Several Questions:

1.) Will this require your opcode module to play?

Yep, it uses the extra RAM in the Opgrade Module. It should also use the flash memory to keep the high scores.

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2.) Is this Module completed and working?

The hardware I use for testing isn't complete but it has the components I need for DK Arcade. However the schematics for the complete module are done, so it's a matter of producing a prototype PCB now. I should do that very soon.

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3.) If module is needed what will it cost?

Very good question. I needs to cost less than $100, but preferably a lot less than that. Casing will probably define the final price.

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4.) Do you have an approximate completion date yet?

Lastly, I defiantly want to be on the list for a copy of this awesome game.

Since DK Arcade needs the module, we need both done before the game is available. So it's kind of hard to say right now. I hope by the end of the year, but it would take longer. I also want at least a second game ready for the module launch, probably Knightmare, so prospective buyers have more options (a shooter and a platformer). Then I hope to have Goonies and Arkanoid in 2010 (if the module does well).

[Pixelboy]

opcode, on Thu Jul 9, 2009 2:10 PM, said:

Pixelboy, I checked CPU usage and stage 1 actually doesn't use a lot more CPU than the other stages. Free CPU is still 40% or more.

Cool, thanks for letting me know.

EDIT: I do have a technical question: I know the DK arcade game uses 4K of RAM, but considering it's a non-scrolling platformer, why does it need that much RAM? Would it be that hard to shrink it down to 1K? Just curious.

Edited by Pixelboy, Thu Jul 9, 2009 2:47 PM.

[CV Gus]

opcode, on Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:00 PM, said:

I feel kind of sad today. Even though I haven't cared about MJ's career or music for a long time, as someone growing up during the 80s it's hard to not think of his influence on the pop culture of the time and, thus, on me. His music was cool back then and his music videos even cooler. Today it's like something is missing...
There isn't much I can do to prevent this feeling that the 80s are now farther away to the point that sometimes I cannot identify the world where I used to live anymore. I don't know if I even recognize myself. So many dreams, so many change of plans… Not sure if what I am saying makes any sense...
Anyway, what can I do besides going back to my games?...
I hope to use this thread to post my progress with Donkey Kong Arcade, my port of the classic arcade game to the CV. I just resumed the game after a long hiatus, so for now you can enjoy a video of some very preliminary work to get stage 3 running.

It makes perfect sense, Opcode, believe me. Things have changed a whole lot...a whole lot. Myself, I don't like it much.
And that version of DK looks FANTASTIC so far- it has that "essense" of the arcade version- if you played it back in the early 1980s, in a nice arcade, you'll know what I mean! Just as your SIC and your PMC both do.
I think I'd prefer the "regular" four-screen version.

Edited by CV Gus, Thu Jul 9, 2009 3:55 PM.

[opcode]

Ok, time for the update of the day, stage 2, aka "conveyor belts", aka "pie factory". Mostly playable.
However I will need to move the topmost platform (the one DK is using) a row up, because of some side effects I didn't foresee. Not a big deal, it just will look a bit different of the current version. Also, I will animate DK on the conveyor in some point in the future, probably near the end of the development cycle.


Anyway, with that I am done with the 4 stages. Now I need to finish the remaing attract mode (not much left), then intermissions and game start. Most of that is already done, but some major animation stuff is missing. Sound is also missing, and should take some time to emulate. And of course I also need the sprite driver, but I will also save that for last, as the current one is good enough to let me finish the game and it would be easier to think about the driver once I have all the pieces of the puzzle in place.
I hope to have the game playable for the next NAVA meeting, later this month.
Comments, please... No hardcore DK players here?

[Pixelboy]

opcode, on Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:10 AM, said:

Ok, time for the update of the day, stage 2, aka "conveyor belts", aka "pie factory". Mostly playable.
However I will need to move the topmost platform (the one DK is using) a row up, because of some side effects I didn't foresee. Not a big deal, it just will look a bit different of the current version. Also, I will animate DK on the conveyor in some point in the future, probably near the end of the development cycle.

I'm curious as to what side effects you're refering to, but anyway, moving the topmost platform will probably alter the tile/sprite setup I created for DK's animation. So when you're ready to program DK's movement, please let me know. I'll try to rework everything for a perfect fit.

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Anyway, with that I am done with the 4 stages. Now I need to finish the remaing attract mode (not much left), then intermissions and game start. Most of that is already done, but some major animation stuff is missing.

Stuff like DK climbing the central ladder with Pauline, I suppose.

[Jess Ragan]

If you're going to add any special features, have a hidden Easter Egg where Donkey Kong throws a barrel at Richard Nixon's head, climbs the UN Building, and stomps on its roof, slanting all the floors.

[NightSprinter]

Jess Ragan, on Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:43 PM, said:

If you're going to add any special features, have a hidden Easter Egg where Donkey Kong throws a barrel at Richard Nixon's head, climbs the UN Building, and stomps on its roof, slanting all the floors.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I think that was probably my favorite episode of Futurama ever. "QUARTERS!! A million allowences' worth of quarters! NO SLUGS OR TOKENS!!"

[Yurkie]

opcode,

Is the Donkey Kong Arcade your working on going to be both Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Junior?

[opcode]

yurkie, on Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:51 PM, said:

opcode,

Is the Donkey Kong Arcade your working on going to be both Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Junior?

Nop, DK only.

[Bill_Loguidice]

opcode, on Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:59 AM, said:

yurkie, on Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:51 PM, said:

opcode,

Is the Donkey Kong Arcade your working on going to be both Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Junior?

Nop, DK only.

That's brings up a somewhat interesting question. Is the work you're putting into making DK as arcade perfect as possible in any way transferable to work on a DKJR or any other class of games that use the same DK arcade hardware?

[opcode]

Bill_Loguidice, on Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:06 PM, said:

opcode, on Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:59 AM, said:

yurkie, on Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:51 PM, said:

opcode,

Is the Donkey Kong Arcade your working on going to be both Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Junior?

Nop, DK only.

That's brings up a somewhat interesting question. Is the work you're putting into making DK as arcade perfect as possible in any way transferable to work on a DKJR or any other class of games that use the same DK arcade hardware?

Yep. But why? Is DKJr that desirable?

[Jess Ragan]

Heh, not really. I'd prefer Donkey Kong 3, but that'd be a bitch to pull off on the ColecoVision hardware. It's essentially Galaga with Donkey Kong in it.

[opcode]

Jess Ragan, on Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:31 PM, said:

Heh, not really. I'd prefer Donkey Kong 3, but that'd be a bitch to pull off on the ColecoVision hardware. It's essentially Galaga with Donkey Kong in it.

That's what I thought...

[Pixelboy]

opcode, on Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:33 PM, said:

Jess Ragan, on Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:31 PM, said:

Heh, not really. I'd prefer Donkey Kong 3, but that'd be a bitch to pull off on the ColecoVision hardware. It's essentially Galaga with Donkey Kong in it.

That's what I thought...

I would enjoy having DK and DK Jr on the same cart, since I love both games equally. A fun twist would be to have a secret option to mix both games together: Save Pauline on the rivets screen and make DK fall down, then the DK Jr opening screen (with DK in a cage being hoisted up the screen) would follow, then you'd play as Junior and would need to save DK, and once DK has been freed in the key chain level, DK would kidnapp Pauline again and the player would once again play as Mario in the regular DK levels. You'd alternate between DK and DK Jr until you run out of lives. That would be loads of fun to play, if only for the variety.

[opcode]

Pixelboy, on Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:56 PM, said:

opcode, on Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:33 PM, said:

Jess Ragan, on Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:31 PM, said:

Heh, not really. I'd prefer Donkey Kong 3, but that'd be a bitch to pull off on the ColecoVision hardware. It's essentially Galaga with Donkey Kong in it.

That's what I thought...

I would enjoy having DK and DK Jr on the same cart, since I love both games equally. A fun twist would be to have a secret option to mix both games together: Save Pauline on the rivets screen and make DK fall down, then the DK Jr opening screen (with DK in a cage being hoisted up the screen) would follow, then you'd play as Junior and would need to save DK, and once DK has been freed in the key chain level, DK would kidnapp Pauline again and the player would once again play as Mario in the regular DK levels. You'd alternate between DK and DK Jr until you run out of lives. That would be loads of fun to play, if only for the variety.

I believe DKJr on the CV should look like this...

On a more on topic note, DK Arcade is now mostly playable, including two players. I should post a new movie or playable demo soon.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Edited by opcode, Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:19 PM.

[r_type2600]

First off, congrats to this already spectacular looking port of Donkey Kong to the CV.
Your perfect CV arcade conversions are simply jaw-dropping

As for DK Jr. , I would love to see that one included in the package as well.
While it may not be as groundbreaking as DK, I think both definitely belong together.
The gameplay of Jr. is the logical evolution of DK, and its story its smooth continuation.
They are simply natural fits for another "collection".

[Pixelboy]

r_type2600, on Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:36 AM, said:

First off, congrats to this already spectacular looking port of Donkey Kong to the CV.
Your perfect CV arcade conversions are simply jaw-dropping

As for DK Jr. , I would love to see that one included in the package as well.
While it may not be as groundbreaking as DK, I think both definitely belong together.
The gameplay of Jr. is the logical evolution of DK, and its story its smooth continuation.
They are simply natural fits for another "collection".

Well, as Eduardo himself said, let's just see how he feels about it after DK is completely done. DK Arcade is already a fantastic offering in itself, which Eduardo has already put a lot of hours in, and I don't think it's fair to put more pressure on him to add stuff.

Still, I have to wonder if there's enough room on a 128K MegaCart to contain both games. And even if there is, cramming both games in the MegaCart's structure (16K fixed /16K bankswitched) may not be as easy as most people think. On the plus side, he would probably be able to reuse his patented sprite driver in Dk Jr, if the sorting algorithm is general enough.

If you ever decide to tranform Donkey Kong Arcade into Donkey Kong Collection, Eduardo, let me know, and I'll gladly put everything else aside and help you with the graphics. But please don't feel pressured. If you don't feel like doing it, then let's all forget about it.

[Yurkie]

Pixelboy, on Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:47 AM, said:

r_type2600, on Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:36 AM, said:

First off, congrats to this already spectacular looking port of Donkey Kong to the CV.
Your perfect CV arcade conversions are simply jaw-dropping

As for DK Jr. , I would love to see that one included in the package as well.
While it may not be as groundbreaking as DK, I think both definitely belong together.
The gameplay of Jr. is the logical evolution of DK, and its story its smooth continuation.
They are simply natural fits for another "collection".

Well, as Eduardo himself said, let's just see how he feels about it after DK is completely done. DK Arcade is already a fantastic offering in itself, which Eduardo has already put a lot of hours in, and I don't think it's fair to put more pressure on him to add stuff.

Still, I have to wonder if there's enough room on a 128K MegaCart to contain both games. And even if there is, cramming both games in the MegaCart's structure (16K fixed /16K bankswitched) may not be as easy as most people think. On the plus side, he would probably be able to reuse his patented sprite driver in Dk Jr, if the sorting algorithm is general enough.

If you ever decide to tranform Donkey Kong Arcade into Donkey Kong Collection, Eduardo, let me know, and I'll gladly put everything else aside and help you with the graphics. But please don't feel pressured. If you don't feel like doing it, then let's all forget about it.

Opcode - I apologize for asking if DKJ was going to be included. In hindsight, I think this could be a discouraging question.

Donkey Kong looks absolutely amazing. I would thrilled to try a playable demo. I have watched your development videos on youtube, it is interesting how thing have progressed.

[opcode]

r_type2600, on Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:36 AM, said:

First off, congrats to this already spectacular looking port of Donkey Kong to the CV.
Your perfect CV arcade conversions are simply jaw-dropping

Thanks, thanks. I really have a great time porting them.

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As for DK Jr. , I would love to see that one included in the package as well.
While it may not be as groundbreaking as DK, I think both definitely belong together.
The gameplay of Jr. is the logical evolution of DK, and its story its smooth continuation.
They are simply natural fits for another "collection".

<sigh>..... Yeah, I know...

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Well, as Eduardo himself said, let's just see how he feels about it after DK is completely done.

That's right, lets see what happens after DK is done.

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DK Arcade is already a fantastic offering in itself, which Eduardo has already put a lot of hours in, and I don't think it's fair to put more pressure on him to add stuff.

I don't mind the feedback, it's actually a good.

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Still, I have to wonder if there's enough room on a 128K MegaCart to contain both games.

Probably yes, but if there isn't, we always have 256K.

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And even if there is, cramming both games in the MegaCart's structure (16K fixed /16K bankswitched) may not be as easy as most people think.

That's true, however DKA is a Opgrade module game, and the OM offers MegaRAM, which is infinitely more flexible.

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On the plus side, he would probably be able to reuse his patented sprite driver in Dk Jr, if the sorting algorithm is general enough.

That and more. Both games share a lot.

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If you ever decide to tranform Donkey Kong Arcade into Donkey Kong Collection, Eduardo, let me know, and I'll gladly put everything else aside and help you with the graphics. But please don't feel pressured. If you don't feel like doing it, then let's all forget about it.

Your help would be very welcome.
You know, I am starting to believe that there is a genuine interest for DKJr. But here is how I see things:

First the cons:
- It would take longer to finish the games, maybe an extra year, I dunno
- That would delay not only the game itself but the OM too
- Both games are already available for the CV, and I know some people would prefer something new. I decided to port DK because I think it's one of the 3 most influential arcade games ever, Pac-Man and Space Invaders being the other two. DKjr, probably not so much.
- Twice the work...
- Twice the chance to get sued...

The pros:
- Two games for the price of one
- Something like Pixelboy described above, mixing both games in a special mode, would be fairly easy to implement.
- The original CV version isn't... well... that great (there, I said it. Don't hate me)
- "Hideout" stage missing in the original CV version
- When the OM is released you get two arcade ports in day one.

So, I don't know. At this point I prefer to finish DK then think about DKJr after that. In the meantime feel free to post your thoughts...

Now, back on-topic, I was play testing DK and found a problem with the elevator stage. Since Pauline’s platform is placed lower in the CV version, I always get hit by the springs while I am climbing the final ladder. The problem is that springs are still jumping as high as before, but I don’t think I can change that since the spring should be able to jump over Mario without hitting him.

[Bill_Loguidice]

opcode, on Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:51 AM, said:

So, I don't know. At this point I prefer to finish DK then think about DKJr after that. In the meantime feel free to post your thoughts...

As much as I love DKjr, even moreso than DK, I'd rather have DK and the Opcode Module sooner, rather than later. DKjr could always be made at a later date with what could be leveraged from the DK work. With that said, man, a DK/DKjr mash-up mode would be tremendous fun!

[Corby]

I'd like to have donkey kong jr. made on the opcode module. I think its a must! donkey kong and dk jr. is like pacman and ms pacman together.

[Murph74]

corbysatarigame, on Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:48 AM, said:

I'd like to have donkey kong jr. made on the opcode module. I think its a must! donkey kong and dk jr. is like pacman and ms pacman together.

As always, I'll offer my opinion at no charge to you, the home reader.

Eduardo, you make some great points as always! I totally agree with the notion that most fans want 'new' games, not rehashes, and I still agree that there are a few games that are already out for the CV but are worthy of re-doing the 'right way'.

I also love the idea of getting a better DKJ port, and possibly (long shot, I know) even a DK3 port and offering up a Classic DK Collection! Although I still agree with the One Step At A Time mentality.

DK Arcade is a definite surefire sellout I'm thinking (pending OCM pricing of course!). But why not 'borrow' a page from Coleco's own original marketing plan? Or at least something similar. May I suggest launching the OCM with DKA as soon as things are ready, then you could potentially offer a "SUPER DK Collection" which could add DKJ (and the hideout, maybe even the hidden DKJ Pie factory! A Coleco exclusive if memory serves me!) and the mixed play modes. At the risk of some saying 'watered down', it would at least offer a 1/2 finished game to add to the upcoming OCM library (The DKA part being done, the DKJ to be added)! And I honestly think that is going to be a driving force behind the OCM's overall success level-- the number of titles available.

Just a thought. I doubt many people would balk at DKA coming out in a collection format just because it was the pack-in for the OCM. Especially if it has the unique gameplay Pixelboy suggested, or any other goodies Opcode may decide to throw in!

But hey, I'll still be amazed at Eduardo's work no matter the path is choosen! We're a blessed fan base just to have his talents offering us anything! (So please don't think I'm trying to dictate what he should or shouldn't do! Just throwing ideas out there!)

[opcode]

Murph74, on Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:37 PM, said:

As always, I'll offer my opinion at no charge to you, the home reader.

Eduardo, you make some great points as always! I totally agree with the notion that most fans want 'new' games, not rehashes, and I still agree that there are a few games that are already out for the CV but are worthy of re-doing the 'right way'.

I also love the idea of getting a better DKJ port, and possibly (long shot, I know) even a DK3 port and offering up a Classic DK Collection! Although I still agree with the One Step At A Time mentality.

DK Arcade is a definite surefire sellout I'm thinking (pending OCM pricing of course!). But why not 'borrow' a page from Coleco's own original marketing plan? Or at least something similar. May I suggest launching the OCM with DKA as soon as things are ready, then you could potentially offer a "SUPER DK Collection" which could add DKJ (and the hideout, maybe even the hidden DKJ Pie factory! A Coleco exclusive if memory serves me!) and the mixed play modes. At the risk of some saying 'watered down', it would at least offer a 1/2 finished game to add to the upcoming OCM library (The DKA part being done, the DKJ to be added)! And I honestly think that is going to be a driving force behind the OCM's overall success level-- the number of titles available.

Just a thought. I doubt many people would balk at DKA coming out in a collection format just because it was the pack-in for the OCM. Especially if it has the unique gameplay Pixelboy suggested, or any other goodies Opcode may decide to throw in!

But hey, I'll still be amazed at Eduardo's work no matter the path is choosen! We're a blessed fan base just to have his talents offering us anything! (So please don't think I'm trying to dictate what he should or shouldn't do! Just throwing ideas out there!)

Sounds like a good idea at first, but then a problem would be that if a DK Collection is to be offered at some point after the OM, then why would someone expend money buying DKA in first place? I believe people would hold off on buying the OM until DKC is available, but if that happens I could be led to believe that the OM was a "commercial" failure and not worth investing anymore. On the other hand I probably wouldn't start manufacturing OM if I don't get a 100 units minimum pre-order...
And if I make DKA a "free" pack-in game, kind of an appetizer before the final game, there is still the risk that most people would be happy enough with it to skip DKC. Since I spend [a lot of] money upfront with packaging, that would be a problem. On the other hand, if I release both games separately, then there is still the risk that DKJr is a flop. Actually I am just digressing here, trying to figure out the best way to handle this...
But then, thinking better, I am starting to like your idea, sounds good. In the worst case we end with the OM and DKA only. In the best case we get the OM and DKA, then DKC a while later. That would work if DKA is offered "free" (and by free I mean "at the cartridge manufacturing cost", what should be around $10), with laser printed manual and no box (offset printed, or whatever they call it here in the US, packaging is by far the most expensive component of a game, usually more than $2,000 that must be paid upfront), just like most pack-ins. I could even use a variation of the DKC cartridge label, so I can save a few hundred bucks with package development. You know, now thinking better about that, I am starting to like your idea more and more. And offering DKA as a free pack-in like discussed above would solve another problem: I always planned to have a second game in day one, but the problem with that was the huge amount of money required to have two complete packaging sets created and printed (and that's not even counting the money required for the OM). With DKA as a free pack-in I save on packaging and we still get two games. Good, good...

[Murph74]

opcode, on Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:45 PM, said:

I am starting to like your idea, sounds good. In the worst case we end with the OM and DKA only. In the best case we get the OM and DKA, then DKC a while later. That would work if DKA is offered "free" (and by free I mean "at the cartridge manufacturing cost", what should be around $10), with laser printed manual and no box (offset printed, or whatever they call it here in the US, packaging is by far the most expensive component of a game, usually more than $2,000 that must be paid upfront), just like most pack-ins. I could even use a variation of the DKC cartridge label, so I can save a few hundred bucks with package development. You know, now thinking better about that, I am starting to like your idea more and more.

See, I can have a good idea every once in a while! lol (The marketing background doesn't hurt either!)

But yes, I think the DKA game would drive sales of the OCM with little trouble! Not sure what the final prototype specs were off hand, but I doubt you'd get much flack if the package pricing was still near the $100 mark. Cart prices could be offset by using the flash port if that's still included, or even as an on-board game. Most of us were already paying half of that for PMC, and there's still a line last I heard! The $100-ish tag seems worthy especially if it significantly increases the capability of the system (with the 80's flavor still of course!), offers an upgraded or increased library of games, and may even be able to lower the cost of future releases that may not have to be on a pricey cartridge format!

I have to go re-visit the module thread for the final/near-final specs, but as still thinking of the OCM as the answer to the never-released SuperGame Module. And if the flash memory port is still a go, is/was it possible to use the OCM in a fashion similar to the AtariMax 128 in one cart? Maybe Steve could help implement such an option if not already though of? If so, I think you got a hands-down must-have winner with the project. If not, I think you're still going to succeed with this!