124 replies to this topic

[Jess Ragan]

save2600, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:00 AM, said:

Gorf, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:20 AM, said:

There is a secret way of getting an arcade bezel in Jaguar Gorf. But I'll never tell.
In fact there are a few dozen secrets in Jaguar Gorf that no one seems to have found.
In fact you have to get to most of them by how well you play the game.

Aww! More teasing?!? Well if more people actually had the damn game to play instead of collectors sitting on them, collecting dust...

Knowing your situation, how in the heck was Jess able to get his GBA version ported? I see all three © holders on the box, so he must have been able to perform some kind of rain dance? Why they care so much about a port on the Jaguar is beffudling. Or are the IP holders banking on the premise that a GBA version is going to sell big time?

I didn't ask anyone for anything. I just made the game and posted it online, knowing full well the viral nature of the internet. Once it was spread across numerous homebrew and emulation sites, there wasn't a damn thing any of the three IP holders could have done about it. Frankly, there was nothing Midway could do about it, since it was in the middle of a messy bankruptcy proceeding at the time the game was coded. I only put the names of the three companies in the opener as an acknowledgment of their respective contributions, and to give the game a more authentic feel.

The downside to this distribution approach is that I will never see a dime from this game. Now if gamers want to donate to my web site, that option exists, but it's not a condition of downloading the game. Money was never a goal when I made the GameBoy Advance version of GORF... I just wanted to see if it could be done; if I could do it. Also, I hit a hard jag of depression over the summer, and focusing on this game's development was the only thing that kept me sane.

Some may say that it's disrespectful to take on a project like this without obtaining permission through the proper channels. I would respond by pointing at the thousands of Pac-Man clones whose only significant difference from the original is a new title. I would also mention that GORF itself is a landmine of IP violations, barred from inclusion in Midway's classic arcade collections. Midway had a habit of overstepping its boundaries in its licensing agreements with Namco and Taito... it had no right to make original games based on Namco properties, yet did this constantly until 1984 when the two companies parted ways. So in other words, I don't give a crap about respecting the rights to a game that legally should never have been made in the first place.

[save2600]

Well said Jess! Some great and valid points here re: infringement. I guess when you boil it down, we're all hypocrites by nature and that's an ancient sentiment that nary needs going into

(Excluding the fact that Steve has integrity this way and wishes NOT to upset any official apple carts), I wonder what the real fear is behind not releasing more of the Gorf CD's on a commercially 'deader than dead' platform that hardly anyone cared about when it was commercially viable? Doesn't make sense to me that what's left of the IP's concepts would be worth fighting over in a court of law. Litigation wise, if they cared - they would first 'nicely' ask the publisher to cease distribution. If the publisher refused, they would then have to decide to spend the thousands fighting it out. Please don't get me wrong Gorf: I respect your decision, just hypothesizing this whole thing out)

I guess we'll know how much Midway, etc. cares about your distro of "their" game. Definitely a touchy subject and one (that I would think) not worth a corporations time getting all bothered about. It's not like they're competing anymore or against anyone either. If there was a current commercial Gorfian product out there, I could see the obvious infringement. But when somebody leaves something out to die, shouldn't matter who picks it up and gives it a brushing off

Edited by save2600, Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:13 PM.

[Jess Ragan]

Oh, I respect Gorf's decision not to release Gorf Pluz for the Jaguar. I just don't think I need to be that cautious. I'm sure the new management at Warner Bros. has better things to do than bully some hobbyist over a freeware version of a game that's only half theirs. Even if they wanted to step in a public relations cowpie and make me take it off my web site, they'll have a hell of a time removing it from the Internet!

[S1500]

If you are going to port someone else's work, whether it's Gorf or whatever, the best route is the freeware route. Any profit-driven motive, whether it's porting it to a current console or dead console, is just killing your creation with red tape & disappointment.

Let's all remember that talented wackjob who wanted Nintendo to release his RPG for the Nintendo DS. He provided more entertainment value with his attention whoring than the game he was trying to make.

[save2600]

S1500, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:14 PM, said:

If you are going to port someone else's work, whether it's Gorf or whatever, the best route is the freeware route.

Yeah, freeware... that's the ticket. Just add $30 for shipping, processing and handling

[S1500]

save2600, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:31 PM, said:

S1500, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:14 PM, said:

If you are going to port someone else's work, whether it's Gorf or whatever, the best route is the freeware route.

Yeah, freeware... that's the ticket. Just add $30 for shipping, processing and handling

I meant as in downloadable, not putting it to a physical cart form. Let people do that themselves.

[Gorf]

Midway has done no such violation of rights.

Actually Namco and Taito Have been partners with Midway since before the 80's. The fact is Midway
had exclusive American distribution rights to both of those companies games throughout the 80's
as part of a deal with Midway to import those games here. In fact, they still own the rights to
all such console versions and if Warner(who is now owner of Midway) wanted to bring you to court
over this, they'd have full jurisdiction to do so. In fact Midway was willing to let me distribute
the game for the JAguar but with some unreasonable conditions I was not willing to go with. As part
of the deal they told me that the Namco and Taito parts of the game would be legally covered under
any agreement I had with them. SO Jess, be careful. They have full rights to those classics under
that import agreement when it comes to non-arcade versions.

[Gorf]

S1500, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:35 PM, said:

save2600, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:31 PM, said:

S1500, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:14 PM, said:

If you are going to port someone else's work, whether it's Gorf or whatever, the best route is the freeware route.

Yeah, freeware... that's the ticket. Just add $30 for shipping, processing and handling

I meant as in downloadable, not putting it to a physical cart form. Let people do that themselves.

That would not help you in court if Midway was serious about it and from the talks I had with them
they are still VERY serious about any and all their IP's. They could claim that a free distribution
is indeed hurting them froma version they 'may' have in the works meant for profit. I would not be
barking up that tree if I were you guys. I dont think you have much to worry about but I would not
get cocky about it either.

[Lord Helmet]

I love this port of Gorf. IMHO it's the best version of Gorf ever released. I've never played the Jag version, but since it isn't available anywhere, it doesn't exist to me

[Jess Ragan]

Gorf, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:21 PM, said:

Midway has done no such violation of rights.

Actually Namco and Taito Have been partners with Midway since before the 80's. The fact is Midway
had exclusive American distribution rights to both of those companies games throughout the 80's
as part of a deal with Midway to import those games here. In fact, they still own the rights to
all such console versions and if Warner(who is now owner of Midway) wanted to bring you to court
over this, they'd have full jurisdiction to do so. In fact Midway was willing to let me distribute
the game for the JAguar but with some unreasonable conditions I was not willing to go with. As part
of the deal they told me that the Namco and Taito parts of the game would be legally covered under
any agreement I had with them. SO Jess, be careful. They have full rights to those classics under
that import agreement when it comes to non-arcade versions.

They had the right to import games made by Namco, not to make entirely new games based on Namco's characters. The Galaxians stage was removed from all home versions of GORF except ours, and I'm convinced it was because Namco objected to it. I'll admit that I don't know the full story behind Midway and Namco and why the two companies ended their licensing agreement, but I strongly, strongly suspect that it was because Midway was taking liberties with Namco characters that it had no right to take.

I also question Midway's claim of full ownership to GORF. If that was really the case, why hasn't the game appeared in any of the Midway Arcade's Greatest Hits or Midway Arcade Treasures collections? Heaven knows there have been enough of them. When Midway was selling "casual games" on its web site last year, most of the classic arcade games in its library were offered except GORF, but including Wizard of Wor, which runs on identical hardware. When Target was selling an arcade cabinet full of Midway games, GORF wasn't on it, but Wizard of Wor was.

Frankly, I don't think Midway was being honest with you. I don't know the specifics of the contract they wanted you to sign, but I suspect that it forced you to give them a large cut of the profit from the sales of your game and offered no protection from a Namco or Taito lawsuit. Why do I suspect this? Well, let's just say that I've been watching former owner Sumner Redstone for a while and I know how he does business.

Have you talked to Midway after the Warner Bros. acquisition, Gorf? Not to be confrontational here, but I suspect that much has changed in the transition from the lawsuit-happy Redstone family to Time-Warner. They may be a lot more flexible than the old guard, and certainly a lot less deceptive.

[S1500]

Gorf, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:24 PM, said:

S1500, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:35 PM, said:

save2600, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:31 PM, said:

S1500, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:14 PM, said:

If you are going to port someone else's work, whether it's Gorf or whatever, the best route is the freeware route.

Yeah, freeware... that's the ticket. Just add $30 for shipping, processing and handling

I meant as in downloadable, not putting it to a physical cart form. Let people do that themselves.

That would not help you in court if Midway was serious about it and from the talks I had with them
they are still VERY serious about any and all their IP's. They could claim that a free distribution
is indeed hurting them froma version they 'may' have in the works meant for profit. I would not be
barking up that tree if I were you guys. I dont think you have much to worry about but I would not
get cocky about it either.

So if I take some shoot em up construction kit & make a Gorf for freely distributing, they send their goons after me? I dunno, that seems like a stretch for a video game company, over an almost 30-year old title.

You should stick it to the man and distribute your Gorf source code like DeCSS!

[Gorf]

S1500, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:56 PM, said:

You should stick it to the man and distribute your Gorf source code like DeCSS!

I'd rather take the do unto others thing. Sticking it to the man is hardly moral
or noble.

[Tom-Lynx]

Jess Ragan said:

I also question Midway's claim of full ownership to GORF. If that was really the case, why hasn't the game appeared in any of the Midway Arcade's Greatest Hits or Midway Arcade Treasures collections? Heaven knows there have been enough of them. When Midway was selling "casual games" on its web site last year, most of the classic arcade games in its library were offered except GORF, but including Wizard of Wor, which runs on identical hardware. When Target was selling an arcade cabinet full of Midway games, GORF wasn't on it, but Wizard of Wor was.

Interesting you brought that up....I've wondered the same thing for years. I have many of the Midway Arcade collections and GORF has never made an appearance.

[Gorf]

Jess Ragan, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:24 PM, said:

They had the right to import games made by Namco, not to make entirely new games based on Namco's characters. The Galaxians stage was removed from all home versions of GORF except ours, and I'm convinced it was because Namco objected to it. I'll admit that I don't know the full story behind Midway and Namco and why the two companies ended their licensing agreement, but I strongly, strongly suspect that it was because Midway was taking liberties with Namco characters that it had no right to take.

Nope, this is not that case at all. They had every right to the Namco Galaxians too. It was Atari getting exculsive
HOME rights to Galaxian from Midway in the 80's that was the cause of no home version being allowed to have Galaxian.
Midway is a professional company that would not take such a foolish chance and ruin any future deals. Trust me, you
are wrong on this one. I asked these questions when I dealt with Midway. Believe me.

Jess Ragan, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:24 PM, said:

I also question Midway's claim of full ownership to GORF. If that was really the case, why hasn't the game appeared in any of the Midway Arcade's Greatest Hits or Midway Arcade Treasures collections?

Go look up the copyright holder of Gorf. It still belongs to Midway. You will find that they renewed
the copyrights in 2000.

Jess Ragan, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:24 PM, said:

"Heaven knows there have been enough of them. When Midway was selling "casual games" on its web site last year, most of the classic arcade games in its library were offered except GORF, but including Wizard of Wor, which runs on identical hardware. When Target was selling an arcade cabinet full of Midway games, GORF wasn't on it, but Wizard of Wor was. "

The copy rights papers are right there in the US copyright site. Why they did not use Gorf has nothing to do with who
owns the rights.

Jess Ragan, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:24 PM, said:

Frankly, I don't think Midway was being honest with you. I don't know the specifics of the contract they wanted you to sign,
but I suspect that it forced you to give them a large cut of the profit from the sales of your game and offered no protection
from a Namco or Taito lawsuit. Why do I suspect this? "

For no good reason...again..a simple search on the US copyrights site will show you they indeed have such rights.

Jess Ragan, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:24 PM, said:

"Have you talked to Midway after the Warner Bros. acquisition, Gorf? Not to be confrontational here, but I suspect that much has changed in the transition from the lawsuit-happy Redstone family to Time-Warner. They may be a lot more flexible than the old guard, and certainly a lot less deceptive.

Rights and ownership legalities do not change but are simply transfered. If or not Warner is more or less
willing is another story but I have my doubts. Again, dont believe me, go look up the IP on the US copyright
site and you will see that indeed they do still own the title. Niether Jamie Fenton, nor Dave Nutting
know where there original contract is so they don't even remember all the details. I dont think they will
come after you but if they wanted to they could and one thing they have that you nor I have is lots of money
and powerful lawyers behind them. Your call but I choose not to throw fuel on the fire.

Midway was very much serious about the IP last I talked to them. PErhaps you might see what Warner has to
say. They may find the game useless and marketless. Probably the reason why Midway never bothered to use
it in their classic packs....I m sure the games included in those where based on a dollar figure in sales
and not so much a popularity issue. If you are some how corect about all this, I will re-release Jag Gorf
immediately. However, I seriously doubt that is the case.

I too am not trying to be confontational with you but simply warning you that you are treading on ground
you may one day regret, especially by putting the names of the copyright holders on the label and the game
creds. You are admiting to the fact that it is their property and a lawyer would have a field day on this
point alone. I only point this out for your benefit and legal safety, not theirs.

[darthkur]

Jess Ragan, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:27 AM, said:

save2600, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:00 AM, said:

Gorf, on Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:20 AM, said:

There is a secret way of getting an arcade bezel in Jaguar Gorf. But I'll never tell.
In fact there are a few dozen secrets in Jaguar Gorf that no one seems to have found.
In fact you have to get to most of them by how well you play the game.

Aww! More teasing?!? Well if more people actually had the damn game to play instead of collectors sitting on them, collecting dust...

Knowing your situation, how in the heck was Jess able to get his GBA version ported? I see all three © holders on the box, so he must have been able to perform some kind of rain dance? Why they care so much about a port on the Jaguar is beffudling. Or are the IP holders banking on the premise that a GBA version is going to sell big time?

I didn't ask anyone for anything. I just made the game and posted it online, knowing full well the viral nature of the internet. Once it was spread across numerous homebrew and emulation sites, there wasn't a damn thing any of the three IP holders could have done about it. .....
The downside to this distribution approach is that I will never see a dime from this game. Now if gamers want to donate to my web site, that option exists, but it's not a condition of downloading the game. Money was never a goal when I made the GameBoy Advance version of GORF... I just wanted to see if it could be done; if I could do it. Also, I hit a hard jag of depression over the summer, and focusing on this game's development was the only thing that kept me sane.

Some may say that it's disrespectful to take on a project like this without obtaining permission through the proper channels. I would respond by pointing at the thousands of Pac-Man clones whose only significant difference from the original is a new title. I would also mention that GORF itself is a landmine of IP violations, barred from inclusion in Midway's classic arcade collections.

Kudos! Finally someone had the gumption to just do it and say the hell with all of that silly nonsense. And yes, that's exactly what it is when considering how old all of these antiques are that we all love so much. It certainly doesn't stop anyone else from making ports of all the other classic games.
Also, congratulations of the highest order for not making it a matter of capitalistic gain. If I was ever able to create and/or port something like that I would most definitely follow your example.
I love this version of Gorf and play it a lot on my GBA SP. Damn good work Jess. It's a masterpiece.

[Gorf]

darthkur, on Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:52 PM, said:

Kudos! Finally someone had the gumption to just do it and say the hell with all of that silly nonsense. And yes, that's exactly what it is when considering how old all of these antiques are that we all love so much. It certainly doesn't stop anyone else from making ports of all the other classic games.
Also, congratulations of the highest order for not making it a matter of capitalistic gain. If I was ever able to create and/or port something like that I would most definitely follow your example.
I love this version of Gorf and play it a lot on my GBA SP. Damn good work Jess. It's a masterpiece.

Well I dont things because 'everyone else is doing it' but I'm not trying to discourage JR at all.
Im just giving him a bit a friendly insight on what could potential cause him some trouble and you
must understand that I hate to see him get in any trouble. From what I can tell he's done a great
job with it and that's never a bad thing. Bottom line is Im just letting him know how things were
with my dealings with Midway.

Not looking to be negative. It's not like I don't agree with the sentiment that these old classics
are long forgotten and I too think, that just out of appreciation to fan loyalty over all these years,
that these companies should consider letting the GP have them once and for all.

However, until then I will tread lighty if at all on someone elses IP, mainly out of respect for someone
elses property. Again..the do unto others thing and no disrespect toward JR at all.

[Jess Ragan]

Thanks for the encouraging words, guys. Always nice to feel like your work has meaning and significance!

I really wish the BASIC compiler I used to design this game had a Nintendo DS counterpart. Sadly, the developer of the compiler is working for Disney's gaming division now, so I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and assume that he'll never make one.

[S1500]

Life's too short to worry! Code onward!

[Gorf]

Jess Ragan, on Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:39 AM, said:

Thanks for the encouraging words, guys. Always nice to feel like your work has meaning and significance!

I really wish the BASIC compiler I used to design this game had a Nintendo DS counterpart. Sadly, the developer of the compiler is working for Disney's gaming division now, so I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and assume that he'll never make one.

No problem.

Disney huh? Some people have all the luck.

Yeah a batari basic for the 7800 would be nice....Jag too.

[Tursi]

never mind

Edited by Tursi, Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:56 PM.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

Jess Ragan, on Sun Oct 4, 2009 9:33 PM, said:

The final build is right here:
http://www.lakupo.co...rf_final_03.zip

Digging up this older story, can I ask why neither the final build of Gorf nor the previous build from September work on my Gameboy Micro? I get a stuck image of some text very large on the left and a jumbled mass on the right. If I try it on Visual Boy Advance I get farther, title screen etc. but as soon as I load the arcade mode to play, my ship does not shoot. The only thing I can do with it it move it around and it somehow flips to the top of the screen and dies.
Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to set some weird parameters or something?

[Jess Ragan]

You're going to have to give me more information. What version of Visual Boy Advance are you using? Which flash cartridge? These things are important.

I'm using the latest version of VBA and the Supercard Mini SD flash cartridge, and my game works properly in both. The only suggestion I can make is to delete all copies of GORF, download the one from my web site, and start over. Also, if your flash cartridge is older you're going to need to patch the game first... this is what I need to do to run all my Game Boy Advance games. Shutting off the BIOS in Visual Boy Advance can also help.

[ComputerSpaceFan]

Jess Ragan, on Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:55 PM, said:

You're going to have to give me more information. What version of Visual Boy Advance are you using? Which flash cartridge? These things are important.

I'm using the latest version of VBA and the Supercard Mini SD flash cartridge, and my game works properly in both. The only suggestion I can make is to delete all copies of GORF, download the one from my web site, and start over. Also, if your flash cartridge is older you're going to need to patch the game first... this is what I need to do to run all my Game Boy Advance games. Shutting off the BIOS in Visual Boy Advance can also help.

I'm using Visual Boy Advance version 1.4
Where do I shut off the BIOS in there?

My flash cart is an EZ Flash 2 Powerstar, the 128 mb version

[Jess Ragan]

The game hasn't been tested with the EZ Flash 2 Powerstar and I cannot guarantee it will function properly with that cartridge. If you can afford it, I would recommend a Supercard Mini SD or something more recent... it has a far larger storage capacity and I know from thorough testing that it will run GORF.

Your copy of VisualBoy Advance is outdated. Please download a more recent copy of the emulator from this site:

http://vba.ngemu.com/downloads.shtml

My version of the emulator is 1.7.2, and that's what should be available on the VBA web site. To turn off the BIOS file, run the program and click Options, then Emulator, then Skip BIOS. Remember to turn it back on to run official games.

I hope that helps.

[Jess Ragan]

Also, I'm just going to go on the record as saying that Wikipedia's reputation as a den of "officious pricks" is well-deserved. The tyrannical morons just took off all mentions of both the Jaguar and GameBoy Advance versions of GORF on its encyclopedia that anyone can edit, but only Jimmy Wales can approve. I didn't work on this game for three months only for it to be ignored! I'm GIVING IT AWAY and nobody's biting or will even acknowledge its existence... it's infuriating!