98 replies to this topic

[Shannon]

atariksi, on Tue Oct 6, 2009 2:04 AM, said:

atariksi, on Tue Oct 6, 2009 1:58 AM, said:

Shannon, on Tue Oct 6, 2009 1:38 AM, said:

And your point is what? What advantage from a gamers point of view does that really provide?

8-bit computers typically have more RAM and can play more complex games. Especially if they are on a disk...

The point was for someone to list 32K A5200 cartridges which are 16K on A8. Perhaps, there are some. I noticed that Pac-man on A5200 has the scene running in between scenes that doesn't exist on A8 version of the cartridge.

That should be "scenes running in between mazes".

No problem... I got the point..

Edited by Shannon, Tue Oct 6, 2009 11:17 PM.

[moonpatrol]

tep392, on Mon Oct 5, 2009 10:06 AM, said:

EDIT: Yikes! Just searched and saw how a "vs" thread can unravel. I'm just looking for feedback, pros/cons, to help me decide on my next purchase. I'll probably end up with both at some point.


Original post:
I am looking for some opinions on the 5200 vs. 8-bit computers for gaming. I currently have a 7800 and am looking at picking up an 8-bit computer so I can play some of the games that are missing on the 7800, like Missle Command and Defender. What I'm trying to decide on is should I just get a 5200 since the hardware is so similarand there are quite a few other games available as well. What I see as pro's and con's are:

5200
pro's:
- good library of games that are not available on my 7800. Adventure 2, missle command, defender
- good trackball option
- programable multi cart available

con's:
- analog joystick (pro for missle command)
- will have to spend some bucks for a good alternative joystick.
- not sure if a good arcade style stick is available

8-bit computer
pro's:
- very large library of games including some of my fav's like missle command and defender.
- many good joystick alternatives
- programable multi cart available

con's:
- is a good trackball available?

What other pro's/con's am I missing?
Are there some "must have" games on the 5200 that I won't find for the 8-bit?

I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Regards,
Perry

You mentioned playing Missile Command with the analog stick as a con. As I remember, the arcade version was played using a trackball. The Atari 5200 trackball is probably the best controller Atari ever made for it's console. Being able to play Missile Command and Centipede like in the arcade is one of the compelling reasons to own a 5200. The joysticks that came with the system weren;t that well built. No one ever complains about the quality of the trackball.-Moonpatrol

[tep392]

moonpatrol, on Wed Oct 7, 2009 6:36 PM, said:

tep392, on Mon Oct 5, 2009 10:06 AM, said:

EDIT: Yikes! Just searched and saw how a "vs" thread can unravel. I'm just looking for feedback, pros/cons, to help me decide on my next purchase. I'll probably end up with both at some point.


Original post:
I am looking for some opinions on the 5200 vs. 8-bit computers for gaming. I currently have a 7800 and am looking at picking up an 8-bit computer so I can play some of the games that are missing on the 7800, like Missle Command and Defender. What I'm trying to decide on is should I just get a 5200 since the hardware is so similarand there are quite a few other games available as well. What I see as pro's and con's are:

5200
pro's:
- good library of games that are not available on my 7800. Adventure 2, missle command, defender
- good trackball option
- programable multi cart available

con's:
- analog joystick (pro for missle command)
- will have to spend some bucks for a good alternative joystick.
- not sure if a good arcade style stick is available

8-bit computer
pro's:
- very large library of games including some of my fav's like missle command and defender.
- many good joystick alternatives
- programable multi cart available

con's:
- is a good trackball available?

What other pro's/con's am I missing?
Are there some "must have" games on the 5200 that I won't find for the 8-bit?

I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Regards,
Perry

You mentioned playing Missile Command with the analog stick as a con. As I remember, the arcade version was played using a trackball. The Atari 5200 trackball is probably the best controller Atari ever made for it's console. Being able to play Missile Command and Centipede like in the arcade is one of the compelling reasons to own a 5200. The joysticks that came with the system weren;t that well built. No one ever complains about the quality of the trackball.-Moonpatrol

I guess I wasn't too clear.

"con's:
- analog joystick (pro for missle command)"

I mean that, in general, the analog joystick is a con. This is due to poor centering and feel of the stick. The comment in parentheses is that the joystick is a pro for games like Missle Command.

[dave4shmups]

moonpatrol, on Wed Oct 7, 2009 6:36 PM, said:

tep392, on Mon Oct 5, 2009 10:06 AM, said:

EDIT: Yikes! Just searched and saw how a "vs" thread can unravel. I'm just looking for feedback, pros/cons, to help me decide on my next purchase. I'll probably end up with both at some point.


Original post:
I am looking for some opinions on the 5200 vs. 8-bit computers for gaming. I currently have a 7800 and am looking at picking up an 8-bit computer so I can play some of the games that are missing on the 7800, like Missle Command and Defender. What I'm trying to decide on is should I just get a 5200 since the hardware is so similarand there are quite a few other games available as well. What I see as pro's and con's are:

5200
pro's:
- good library of games that are not available on my 7800. Adventure 2, missle command, defender
- good trackball option
- programable multi cart available

con's:
- analog joystick (pro for missle command)
- will have to spend some bucks for a good alternative joystick.
- not sure if a good arcade style stick is available

8-bit computer
pro's:
- very large library of games including some of my fav's like missle command and defender.
- many good joystick alternatives
- programable multi cart available

con's:
- is a good trackball available?

What other pro's/con's am I missing?
Are there some "must have" games on the 5200 that I won't find for the 8-bit?

I would appreciate any and all feedback.

Regards,
Perry

You mentioned playing Missile Command with the analog stick as a con. As I remember, the arcade version was played using a trackball. The Atari 5200 trackball is probably the best controller Atari ever made for it's console. Being able to play Missile Command and Centipede like in the arcade is one of the compelling reasons to own a 5200. The joysticks that came with the system weren;t that well built. No one ever complains about the quality of the trackball.-Moonpatrol

How heavy is the trackball; could you hold it in your lap? It looks pretty huge and weighty. And speaking of Atari 8-bit, are the floppy disk drives hard to install, and do you have to type in any command promps for disk games to start up?

[ApolloBoy]

dave4shmups, on Thu Oct 8, 2009 11:37 AM, said:

How heavy is the trackball; could you hold it in your lap? It looks pretty huge and weighty. And speaking of Atari 8-bit, are the floppy disk drives hard to install, and do you have to type in any command promps for disk games to start up?

The 5200 Trak-Ball isn't all that heavy and it shouldn't be too uncomfortable to have on your lap. For the 8-bit disk drives, all you have to is connect it to the A8, turn it on, insert the disk and then turn on the A8. The disk should boot automatically. It's not like the C64 where you have to type in a command in order for it to load a disk.

[dave4shmups]

ApolloBoy, on Thu Oct 8, 2009 6:22 PM, said:

dave4shmups, on Thu Oct 8, 2009 11:37 AM, said:

How heavy is the trackball; could you hold it in your lap? It looks pretty huge and weighty. And speaking of Atari 8-bit, are the floppy disk drives hard to install, and do you have to type in any command promps for disk games to start up?

The 5200 Trak-Ball isn't all that heavy and it shouldn't be too uncomfortable to have on your lap. For the 8-bit disk drives, all you have to is connect it to the A8, turn it on, insert the disk and then turn on the A8. The disk should boot automatically. It's not like the C64 where you have to type in a command in order for it to load a disk.

Good to know, thanks! With C64 cartridges, do you have to type anything in or do you just plug the cartridge in and turn the C64 on?

[ApolloBoy]

dave4shmups, on Fri Oct 9, 2009 11:34 AM, said:

ApolloBoy, on Thu Oct 8, 2009 6:22 PM, said:

dave4shmups, on Thu Oct 8, 2009 11:37 AM, said:

How heavy is the trackball; could you hold it in your lap? It looks pretty huge and weighty. And speaking of Atari 8-bit, are the floppy disk drives hard to install, and do you have to type in any command promps for disk games to start up?

The 5200 Trak-Ball isn't all that heavy and it shouldn't be too uncomfortable to have on your lap. For the 8-bit disk drives, all you have to is connect it to the A8, turn it on, insert the disk and then turn on the A8. The disk should boot automatically. It's not like the C64 where you have to type in a command in order for it to load a disk.

Good to know, thanks! With C64 cartridges, do you have to type anything in or do you just plug the cartridge in and turn the C64 on?

Just plug the cart in and turn it on.

[NightSprinter]

I think the only time one ever has to type in a command to load something on the A8 is with a cassette program. Just simply requires basic to be loaded (cartridge if you've a 400 or 800), have the tape recorder plugged in, and type "CLOAD" and hit enter.

[atariksi]

NightSprinter, on Fri Oct 9, 2009 12:07 PM, said:

I think the only time one ever has to type in a command to load something on the A8 is with a cassette program. Just simply requires basic to be loaded (cartridge if you've a 400 or 800), have the tape recorder plugged in, and type "CLOAD" and hit enter.

You can also boot cassettes by holding down the START key and turning on the computer...

[Shannon]

Holding the start key only works with machine language programs. Basic program required you to type cload and then run to play them.

[atariksi]

Shannon, on Fri Oct 9, 2009 5:35 PM, said:

Holding the start key only works with machine language programs. Basic program required you to type cload and then run to play them.

He seem to be saying that you NEED basic to use cassette loading. You can also boot up with START and still use BASIC as long as program knows what it's doing.

[tz101]

I have never owned an 8-bit Atari computer, but have a 5200 4-port model system. It is a great gaming console. I don't understand all the controller haters because the standard Atari units are very good, even on games like Pac Man. The word I always heard was that the controllers are non-centering so maze type games are difficult. This is simply not the truth. I rebuilt my controllers with new pots and rubber stick boots from Best Electronics. Wow, was that worth it. The new boots act like centering "springs" that return the sticks to center position. Get a 5200 in good working condition and buy Best parts for the controllers and you will be pleasantly surprised.

[atariksi]

tz101, on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:55 PM, said:

I have never owned an 8-bit Atari computer, but have a 5200 4-port model system. It is a great gaming console. I don't understand all the controller haters because the standard Atari units are very good, even on games like Pac Man. The word I always heard was that the controllers are non-centering so maze type games are difficult. This is simply not the truth. I rebuilt my controllers with new pots and rubber stick boots from Best Electronics. Wow, was that worth it. The new boots act like centering "springs" that return the sticks to center position. Get a 5200 in good working condition and buy Best parts for the controllers and you will be pleasantly surprised.

You can't compare until you try out better controllers. If you get used to Atari 800 joysticks, all other joysticks seem inferior including modern XBOX joysticks. A5200 are useable if they are working, but pac-man definitely is better with the A800 type joystick.

[tep392]

I'm the OP, and I thought I would report back that I ended up getting an 800XL and I couldn't be happier. The wealth of s/w available for this machine is just mind boggeling. I'm using Atarimax flash carts which are working out great for me. I would still like to pick up a 5200 with a few of my favorits carts though. You can never have too many Atari's!

Regarding joysticks, I was playing a few games last night with a new 2600 joystick that I picked up from Best Electronics, and the control was very tight and precise. Maybe it's because I grew up with this joystick, but the feel and control are just perfect for me.

[jetset]

atariksi, on Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:37 PM, said:

tz101, on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:55 PM, said:

I have never owned an 8-bit Atari computer, but have a 5200 4-port model system. It is a great gaming console. I don't understand all the controller haters because the standard Atari units are very good, even on games like Pac Man. The word I always heard was that the controllers are non-centering so maze type games are difficult. This is simply not the truth. I rebuilt my controllers with new pots and rubber stick boots from Best Electronics. Wow, was that worth it. The new boots act like centering "springs" that return the sticks to center position. Get a 5200 in good working condition and buy Best parts for the controllers and you will be pleasantly surprised.

You can't compare until you try out better controllers. If you get used to Atari 800 joysticks, all other joysticks seem inferior including modern XBOX joysticks. A5200 are useable if they are working, but pac-man definitely is better with the A800 type joystick.

Huh? What joystick is this you speak of? Are you talking the original stock/2600 controllers? I've heard many things, but never that they are superior to all other joysticks including modern ones like the xbox.
Still it's all in what you're used to. I have several adapters for the 5200, and the LAST game I'd play using the 2600 sticks is PacMan. Everyone is so quick to point out how terrible the 5200 sticks are, but they're great for PacMan. You have no reason for them to self center on that game since you hardly ever come to a stop. Not saying the 2600 stock controllers are bad, but after a few rounds at fast speeds you hands will likely cramp being they're so stiff.

[atariksi]

jetset, on Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:25 PM, said:

atariksi, on Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:37 PM, said:

tz101, on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:55 PM, said:

I have never owned an 8-bit Atari computer, but have a 5200 4-port model system. It is a great gaming console. I don't understand all the controller haters because the standard Atari units are very good, even on games like Pac Man. The word I always heard was that the controllers are non-centering so maze type games are difficult. This is simply not the truth. I rebuilt my controllers with new pots and rubber stick boots from Best Electronics. Wow, was that worth it. The new boots act like centering "springs" that return the sticks to center position. Get a 5200 in good working condition and buy Best parts for the controllers and you will be pleasantly surprised.

You can't compare until you try out better controllers. If you get used to Atari 800 joysticks, all other joysticks seem inferior including modern XBOX joysticks. A5200 are useable if they are working, but pac-man definitely is better with the A800 type joystick.

Huh? What joystick is this you speak of? Are you talking the original stock/2600 controllers? I've heard many things, but never that they are superior to all other joysticks including modern ones like the xbox.
Still it's all in what you're used to. I have several adapters for the 5200, and the LAST game I'd play using the 2600 sticks is PacMan. Everyone is so quick to point out how terrible the 5200 sticks are, but they're great for PacMan. You have no reason for them to self center on that game since you hardly ever come to a stop. Not saying the 2600 stock controllers are bad, but after a few rounds at fast speeds you hands will likely cramp being they're so stiff.

I didn't say anything about self-centering. Analogicity and having small buttons on the side is not as good as a digital joystick with a button on top for majority of Atari games. Pac-man does better at turning with a digital joystick. I have used both and played on both systems and it's easier with a digital joystick. As far as being better than modern joysticks, yes-- from simplicity and programmability point of views, the A800 joystick is superior. The keypad/keyboard were always there if you wanted to make things complex but joystick like mouse was supposed to make things EASIER. There's no sense in putting 10 buttons on a joystick to confuse things just like there's no sense in putting 10 buttons on a mouse. Yes, LDA 54016 in 4 cycles is better than reading analog values and doing some sort of threshold and not knowing exactly what values to expect or how long it will take to retrieve the values given the variety of modern interfaces and speeds.

[chrisbid]

two words that should sway the arguement to the A8 side

Donkey Kong

[atarian63]

jetset, on Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:25 PM, said:

atariksi, on Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:37 PM, said:

tz101, on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:55 PM, said:

I have never owned an 8-bit Atari computer, but have a 5200 4-port model system. It is a great gaming console. I don't understand all the controller haters because the standard Atari units are very good, even on games like Pac Man. The word I always heard was that the controllers are non-centering so maze type games are difficult. This is simply not the truth. I rebuilt my controllers with new pots and rubber stick boots from Best Electronics. Wow, was that worth it. The new boots act like centering "springs" that return the sticks to center position. Get a 5200 in good working condition and buy Best parts for the controllers and you will be pleasantly surprised.

You can't compare until you try out better controllers. If you get used to Atari 800 joysticks, all other joysticks seem inferior including modern XBOX joysticks. A5200 are useable if they are working, but pac-man definitely is better with the A800 type joystick.

C'mon 2600 joysticks are the best for Pacman. I like the 5200 as well but 2600 joysticks are really great! Moddern controllers really stink for classic arcade games.


Huh? What joystick is this you speak of? Are you talking the original stock/2600 controllers? I've heard many things, but never that they are superior to all other joysticks including modern ones like the xbox.
Still it's all in what you're used to. I have several adapters for the 5200, and the LAST game I'd play using the 2600 sticks is PacMan. Everyone is so quick to point out how terrible the 5200 sticks are, but they're great for PacMan. You have no reason for them to self center on that game since you hardly ever come to a stop. Not saying the 2600 stock controllers are bad, but after a few rounds at fast speeds you hands will likely cramp being they're so stiff.

[frogstar_robot]

atariksi, on Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:37 PM, said:

You can't compare until you try out better controllers. If you get used to Atari 800 joysticks, all other joysticks seem inferior including modern XBOX joysticks. A5200 are useable if they are working, but pac-man definitely is better with the A800 type joystick.

If you mean a quality item with a ball top and leaf switches then I'll mostly agree with you. But the original Atari joysticks wear out quickly and an extended session always gives me a case of "Atari Thumb".

[jetset]

chrisbid, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:49 AM, said:

two words that should sway the arguement to the A8 side

Donkey Kong

Not really...

http://www.atariage....post__p__453780

[atariksi]

frogstar_robot, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:43 AM, said:

atariksi, on Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:37 PM, said:

You can't compare until you try out better controllers. If you get used to Atari 800 joysticks, all other joysticks seem inferior including modern XBOX joysticks. A5200 are useable if they are working, but pac-man definitely is better with the A800 type joystick.

If you mean a quality item with a ball top and leaf switches then I'll mostly agree with you. But the original Atari joysticks wear out quickly and an extended session always gives me a case of "Atari Thumb".

Some of the clones are too big to grasp. Yeah, but anything with the same simplicity and digital states would be in the same catagory.

[atariksi]

jetset, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:18 AM, said:

chrisbid, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:49 AM, said:

two words that should sway the arguement to the A8 side

Donkey Kong

Not really...

http://www.atariage....post__p__453780

In that thread, they are also complaining about the A5200 joystick (although game is excellent).

[jetset]

atariksi, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:18 PM, said:

jetset, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:18 AM, said:

chrisbid, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:49 AM, said:

two words that should sway the arguement to the A8 side

Donkey Kong

Not really...

http://www.atariage....post__p__453780

In that thread, they are also complaining about the A5200 joystick (although game is excellent).

They just haven't played much 5200 apparently. Just takes some practice and the controllers are great. I wouldn't argue they're better than 2600 sticks certainly, but most of the complaining about the 5200 sticks just means they aren't very adaptable gamers imo. A little practice goes a long way.

[DracIsBack]

Shannon, on Tue Oct 6, 2009 1:04 AM, said:

XEG carts can hold up to 128k....

All the eight bit systems (2600, 5200, 7800, XEGS, NES etc) all do it more or less the same way. None of their processors can access that much memory directly so they switch between smaller memory banks.

There's nothing technical preventing the 5200 from playing larger games or the XEGS from going beyond 128K for that matter.

[atariksi]

jetset, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:20 PM, said:

atariksi, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:18 PM, said:

jetset, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:18 AM, said:

chrisbid, on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:49 AM, said:

two words that should sway the arguement to the A8 side

Donkey Kong

Not really...

http://www.atariage....post__p__453780

In that thread, they are also complaining about the A5200 joystick (although game is excellent).

They just haven't played much 5200 apparently. Just takes some practice and the controllers are great. I wouldn't argue they're better than 2600 sticks certainly, but most of the complaining about the 5200 sticks just means they aren't very adaptable gamers imo. A little practice goes a long way.

Even if you get used to A5200 sticks, you will still find some problems with some games in regards to button positioning and analogicity. Analogicity just lends itself to problems whether it's programming or using it.