xxl Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) only v1.4 http://www.virtualdub.org/beta/Altirra-1.4pre10.zip Edited October 21, 2009 by xxl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I had a 1541 demo where the drive played "msx" by repositioning... never appeared something similar on 1050? You can send diag commands to move the head, but I'd say the process would probably be too slow as it needs a seperate SIO command sequence for every movement. In all likelyhood you could do it on a drive where you could execute user supplied code on the drive's CPU. Maybe something like the 1541 music has been done for the ST? From memory, you can use about 4 different stepping rates on it's drive controller, and each one generates a different sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I also have an APPLE //c computer. The music out of this computer, sounds almost 100% the same as this PIA sound sample! Awesome to know this is only EXTRA! AMAZING AMAZING AMAZING! Great work Miker M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hello all. Real fantastic. What will we discouver more on A8? This could be or not "out of the Topic" but I have a K7 with the A8 game Lone Rider from AtariSoft, an old one, and it plays some music during the loading. I remember I put the K7 on my music system and I got Loading sound from one side and the A8 music from the other speaker. The program loads some somne bytes and then starts the music and it loads the rest of the program. From what I remember in my mono T.V. I only got the music. How this work? And by the way, is there any more games on A8 like this? In my library over the years I only get this one? And with Emulator, is possible to load, in some way, this games with music? And for C64, so well known about music during loading, what's the technic behind this one? Is it like on A8 "Lone Rider" game? José Pereira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I remember I put the K7 on my music system and I got Loading sound from one side and the A8 music from the other speaker. The program loads some somne bytes and then starts the music and it loads the rest of the program. From what I remember in my mono T.V. I only got the music. How this work? The tape has 2 tracks for stereo reproduction, but data is recorded on only ONE track of the tape, the other is usually empty - but for some games including the Lone raider it has mono music recorded on it... sTeVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
José Pereira Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I remember I put the K7 on my music system and I got Loading sound from one side and the A8 music from the other speaker. The program loads some somne bytes and then starts the music and it loads the rest of the program. From what I remember in my mono T.V. I only got the music. How this work? The tape has 2 tracks for stereo reproduction, but data is recorded on only ONE track of the tape, the other is usually empty - but for some games including the Lone raider it has mono music recorded on it... sTeVE And is this that C64 games also do? If this is the way, all computers with cassete reccorders wil perforrm this, right? And in Disketes on real machines with 1050/XF551 or Commodore's 1541 is it possible in some way? Thanks, José Pereirra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 And is this that C64 games also do? If this is the way, all computers with cassete reccorders wil perforrm this, right? And in Disketes on real machines with 1050/XF551 or Commodore's 1541 is it possible in some way? Thanks, José Pereirra. C64 loading music is done with the SID chip and a 6502 music "driver" or player, the same is it's done in demos or in games (while the game is running). Nothing to do with the tape so it's possible without one and also possible to play SID tunes when loading from disk. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I had a 1541 demo where the drive played "msx" by repositioning... never appeared something similar on 1050? are u talking about "Daisy Daisy"? the fairly infamous program that play "music" by vibrating the drive heads against the stops of a 1541? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I had a 1541 demo where the drive played "msx" by repositioning... never appeared something similar on 1050? are u talking about "Daisy Daisy"? the fairly infamous program that play "music" by vibrating the drive heads against the stops of a 1541? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 And is this that C64 games also do? If this is the way, all computers with cassete reccorders wil perforrm this, right? And in Disketes on real machines with 1050/XF551 or Commodore's 1541 is it possible in some way? Thanks, José Pereirra. José, the Atari can play music while loading from disk. You lose a voice and IIRC it takes a custom SIO load routine, but it is possible. The only game I remember which played music while loading was Phantasie (don't remember if it was I or II I had). It was a Lord of the Rings clone graphical adventure. There are several demos that do it though. Joyride is a good one. Stephen Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 XXL, have you tried to use all sound sources (pokey, gtia, pia) with a small time-offset to produce real echo/reverb effects over the analogue signal? This was a serious question.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 That is rather cool. It certainly doesn't seem like it would be good for the drive though. Will this burn out anything in the drive or wreck the alignment? Stephen Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 It seems that there is some problem with multichannel sound on PIA. The existing documentation is messed up a bit. We'll test it using another player (with volume control). Current state: work in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 And is this that C64 games also do? If this is the way, all computers with cassete reccorders wil perforrm this, right? And in Disketes on real machines with 1050/XF551 or Commodore's 1541 is it possible in some way? Thanks, José Pereirra. José, the Atari can play music while loading from disk. You lose a voice and IIRC it takes a custom SIO load routine, but it is possible. The only game I remember which played music while loading was Phantasie (don't remember if it was I or II I had). It was a Lord of the Rings clone graphical adventure. There are several demos that do it though. Joyride is a good one. Stephen Anderson Even all 4 voices can be used. To be more precise: you'll lose a timer. Look here f.e.: http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bpos/loadingmusic The Total Daze loader uses 4 channels: channel 1,2 are free and channel 3&4 is combined 16bit timer for SIO, but it's used for some percussions. Energy also uses 4 channels, even 2 of them are digi-voices: voice 3 and 4. So, you'll lose the timer(s), but the volume only voices of ch.3 & 4 can still be used as independent voices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 That is rather cool. It certainly doesn't seem like it would be good for the drive though. Will this burn out anything in the drive or wreck the alignment? As Ste mentioned, it's banging the heads against the head-stops to generate the frequencies so I don't imagine it does it much good at all, but it never did my drives any harm back in the day and I remember running that a few times.. As for alignment ? I don't know.. I used to have the top off my drive anyway (parallel disk board inside) all the time and when the heads got stuck on track 35+ (or maybe some other reason) I just used to just slide the head back to the stops with my finger when that happened, so I've no idea how alignment sensitive they were I'm a little more sensitive to my hardware nowdays though those things do seem fairly bullet proof to me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 OK - now... Music is played by PIA & GTIA simultaneously (6 virtual voices with delay). "...Unplug" - GTIA only playing. Utter crap compared to "Plugged" one. Of course (un)plugged stands for tape drive connected through SIO or not. Additionally, there's some exaple with volume changing. "Binaries" - self explatanatory. Use START & SELECT to manipulate with volume. Remember to have tape drive connected or you didn't hear anything. pia_gtia_unplug.zip pia_gtia_plugged.zip binaries.ZIP volume2.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 PACTL bit 3 is for motor control - you should clear this bit the true is that combination b5,b4,b3 set to 1 is forbid Actually, no. That's what the Hardware Manual says, but it's actually bits 3-5 that control the motor control line, and all eight combinations are documented in pages 67-68 of the MCS6500 Family Hardware Manual. It's just that only the 110 and 111 combinations are actually useful in most cases. I stuck a voltmeter across pins 4 and 8 of the SIO port on my 800XL while toggling PACTL between $00 and $30 in BASIC, and the motor control line was indeed toggling between ground and +5V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 In my last year of school, we had a computer room with about 8 BBCs. Myself and a mate set all of them up with a program that turned the cassette motor on/off with random short intervals in between. Since it uses a relay, it sounded like a bunch of geiger counters all going off. Might have to dig out my cassette player and give this a go... wonder though - would it work if you just fed the cassette motor enable line back into the audio input on a SIO cable? The audio input is analog (<1.0Vpp) and Motor line is TTL +5V/0V so not same as going through tape recorder. If Atari can handle the extra voltage, on the audio input, you can get away toggling it on/off but mostly it would be clipped and risky. Going through tape recorder would be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I modified Altirra to emulate the feedback from the motor control line to the audio line: http://www.virtualdub.org/beta/Altirra-1.4pre11.zip The volume level and decay constants probably aren't tuned correctly (I don't have an Atari tape drive to test against), but at least the demos make sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 nice! volume.xex plays fine but piagtia38.xex not.... is too silent (plays like tape is not connected), maybe only gtia is the source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 PACTL bit 3 is for motor control - you should clear this bit the true is that combination b5,b4,b3 set to 1 is forbid Actually, no. That's what the Hardware Manual says, but it's actually bits 3-5 that control the motor control line, and all eight combinations are documented in pages 67-68 of the MCS6500 Family Hardware Manual. It's just that only the 110 and 111 combinations are actually useful in most cases. I stuck a voltmeter across pins 4 and 8 of the SIO port on my 800XL while toggling PACTL between $00 and $30 in BASIC, and the motor control line was indeed toggling between ground and +5V. So toggling 56 and 48 vs. 48 and 0 makes a difference on the audio circuitry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 PACTL bit 3 is for motor control - you should clear this bit the true is that combination b5,b4,b3 set to 1 is forbid Actually, no. That's what the Hardware Manual says, but it's actually bits 3-5 that control the motor control line, and all eight combinations are documented in pages 67-68 of the MCS6500 Family Hardware Manual. It's just that only the 110 and 111 combinations are actually useful in most cases. I stuck a voltmeter across pins 4 and 8 of the SIO port on my 800XL while toggling PACTL between $00 and $30 in BASIC, and the motor control line was indeed toggling between ground and +5V. So toggling 56 and 48 vs. 48 and 0 makes a difference on the audio circuitry. Does it? It shouldn't, according to the PIA docs, but I can't test it since I don't have a tape drive. $00 and $38 should both pull the output high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 nice! volume.xex plays fine but piagtia38.xex not.... is too silent (plays like tape is not connected), maybe only gtia is the source? GTIA and PIA were destructively cancelling -- I've inverted the PIA output so they add instead. http://www.virtualdub.org/beta/Altirra-1.4pre12.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 And is this that C64 games also do? If this is the way, all computers with cassete reccorders wil perforrm this, right? And in Disketes on real machines with 1050/XF551 or Commodore's 1541 is it possible in some way? Thanks, José Pereirra. José, the Atari can play music while loading from disk. You lose a voice and IIRC it takes a custom SIO load routine, but it is possible. The only game I remember which played music while loading was Phantasie (don't remember if it was I or II I had). It was a Lord of the Rings clone graphical adventure. There are several demos that do it though. Joyride is a good one. Stephen Anderson Stephen, actually you are loosing 2 channels so you can use 2 pokey channels while the remaining 2 are used for the sio loading procedure. but this is only possible with custom routines because the OS is touching all 4 pokey channels even only 2 are needed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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