41 replies to this topic

[jeremysart]

I just thought it would be fun to see what we could spark up about Sega's horrible quality control over the years.

I'll start by naming a couple things I personally own:

Doom 32X: They printed 32X UPSIDEDOWN on the side of the box.

Doom Sega Saturn: The back of the box says "2 player ready with death-match capabilities!" but on the bottom of the case it says "1 player".. and no, there is NO death-match capabilities in this game.

Astal Sega Saturn: They completely forgot to print the title of the game on the spine. So when im looking through my games I have Doom, Nights, ... , Command & Conquer etc.

Edited by jeremysart, Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:38 AM.

[the.golden.ax]

If you have ever cracked any of their consoles open for a repair, it is just as bad as the 360 and PS2 if not worse. They made the same mistakes for over 10 years on their power boards from many generations of systems, not just between models of the same units. Most places learn from their mistakes and improve. I love Sega, but they were really just as bad at QC as they were at keeping their company alive.

AX

[jeremysart]

the.golden.ax, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:36 AM, said:

If you have ever cracked any of their consoles open for a repair, it is just as bad as the 360 and PS2 if not worse. They made the same mistakes for over 10 years on their power boards from many generations of systems, not just between models of the same units. Most places learn from their mistakes and improve. I love Sega, but they were really just as bad at QC as they were at keeping their company alive.

AX

I agree. If I didnt love Sega, I probably wouldnt own all of their systems
But a lot of the junk they let through im sure had a lot to do with their demise. Its sad all of the junk Sonic games they keep dragging out. It would be nice to see another console from them, or maybe a rehash system that read dreamcast/saturn/sega cd/ disks and had a cart slot for gen/32x games.

[Hatta]

The big one in my mind is the crappy audio on anything but the first model Genesis. Glad that can be fixed with a mod these days though.

How are the capacitors in these things by the way? Are they generally in need of replacement?

[Reaperman]

hell, in addition to just sounding like crap, many of the genesis systems weren't even compatible with all games. I've seen some really weird genesis compatibility issues. I kept buying copies of knuckles chaotix (32x) because I thought I kept getting bad ones. Turns out it was the genesis under the 32x that wouldn't play them. Both were genesis 2 units, and it wasn't a cleaning issue.

to include dreamcast, whole shipments of certain launch games didn't work. I went through 4 copies of airforce delta before I got one that worked.

[DaytonaUSA]

Reaperman, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:28 PM, said:

hell, in addition to just sounding like crap, many of the genesis systems weren't even compatible with all games. I've seen some really weird genesis compatibility issues. I kept buying copies of knuckles chaotix (32x) because I thought I kept getting bad ones. Turns out it was the genesis under the 32x that wouldn't play them. Both were genesis 2 units, and it wasn't a cleaning issue.

to include dreamcast, whole shipments of certain launch games didn't work. I went through 4 copies of airforce delta before I got one that worked.

I have the same problem with Space Channel 5. I don't know what it is, but I've bought like 10 copies of that game and each has a different problem.. missing background, missing characters, game freezes at the same point on last level, no music, ect ect.

My DC is in mint condition, and every other game works on it. Makes no freakin sense to me.

I never had problems with Sega systems. Maybe I'm just lucky, but at the very least my Genesis and Saturns are built like tanks. But the Dreamcast, as much as I love it's games, is the only system I hold my breath (not literally) when I turn it on. Having disk issues ect is common place and it gets VERY annoying.

[shadow460]

Actually, that claim on the Doom box is true. A very few Saturn games use the Communication Connector on the back of the console along with something called a "Direct Link" cable. There is no logo or indication on the package that it can be used, though.

IIRC, Doom, Virtual On, and wipEout are among the US titles that can link system to system this way. It's not confirmed that Virtual On does, if fact, link up, but a few others have been tested. It's possible that the NetLink version of Virtual On might also use the Direct Link, or it might be that the standard version does. The options to link, such as Deathmatch, do not appear until the link is established. Out of those, I own wipEout and the standard Virtual On. Neither has any logos on the box or indication in the menu. It's probably due to how old the games are, or, in the case of Virtual On, that it has a NetLink capable version out and Sega just assumed that's how players would want to link up.

Netlink/DirectLink FAQ at GameFAQs.

[coyo5050]

Reaperman, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:28 PM, said:

hell, in addition to just sounding like crap, many of the genesis systems weren't even compatible with all games. I've seen some really weird genesis compatibility issues. I kept buying copies of knuckles chaotix (32x) because I thought I kept getting bad ones. Turns out it was the genesis under the 32x that wouldn't play them. Both were genesis 2 units, and it wasn't a cleaning issue.

to include dreamcast, whole shipments of certain launch games didn't work. I went through 4 copies of airforce delta before I got one that worked.

My copy starts, then the graphics scramble and it locks up. Is this a known issue or something? I thought the cart must be bad since other carts worked fine on the 32x.

[Koopa64]

Take a hard look at the game in the middle... Do you see something that doesn't match up with the other two games?

[Koopa64]

coyo5050, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:26 PM, said:

Reaperman, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:28 PM, said:

hell, in addition to just sounding like crap, many of the genesis systems weren't even compatible with all games. I've seen some really weird genesis compatibility issues. I kept buying copies of knuckles chaotix (32x) because I thought I kept getting bad ones. Turns out it was the genesis under the 32x that wouldn't play them. Both were genesis 2 units, and it wasn't a cleaning issue.

to include dreamcast, whole shipments of certain launch games didn't work. I went through 4 copies of airforce delta before I got one that worked.

My copy starts, then the graphics scramble and it locks up. Is this a known issue or something? I thought the cart must be bad since other carts worked fine on the 32x.

This is only from what I've heard, but some Model 2 Genesis consoles need some sort of "dongle" where the Sega CD plugs in if one is not present in order to play Knuckles' Chaotix. I don't even know what this "dongle" looks like but I've heard from at least a few reputable people that what I mentioned here is true.

[shadow460]

Let's see, the UbiSoft logo is not centered in any way at all, and the Saturn logo is upside down on Rayman.

In my collection, there are different Midway logos, and the Warp logo is absent from the spine on Enemy Zero.

Then, too, I'm also looking at three Xonox games for my 2600 and I noticed that compared to the other two, Ghost Manor's title on the end label is upside down. Oopsie!

Edited by shadow460, Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:10 PM.

[Koopa64]

shadow460, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:09 PM, said:

Let's see, the UbiSoft logo is not centered in any way at all, and the Saturn logo is upside down on Rayman.

In my collection, there are different Midway logos, and the Warp logo is absent from the spine on Enemy Zero.

Then, too, I'm also looking at three Xonox games for my 2600 and I noticed that compared to the other two, Ghost Manor's title on the end label is upside down. Oopsie!

Correct! I guess the Ubisoft note is correct too, but it's not as big an issue.

[atarian63]

Interesting, I had all the systems and other than 32x I have had no problems at all. Yeah game gear sound was low but after many many years i did not think it was a big deal. quick cap replace and all is well.

[gdement]

Hatta, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:58 PM, said:

The big one in my mind is the crappy audio on anything but the first model Genesis. Glad that can be fixed with a mod these days though.

How are the capacitors in these things by the way? Are they generally in need of replacement?

My early Genesis hasn't really worked right since it was about 1-2yrs old.

Recently I fixed a video problem, which turned out to be caused by bad caps.
The bad caps are Chhsi, which are a notoriously bad brand. Every single one I removed tested way out of spec, while the other brands in the same Genesis were still good.
If you see a Genesis with Chhsi caps in it, you can assume they're bad.
They're also a pain to remove properly. I'm not sure if the board even has a through-hole via or if it's just 2 separate solder pads on top/bottom. I suspect the latter because Sega soldered the tops separately.
I had a hard time not damaging them. It's much easier to do the same job on modern PC motherboards.

I also noticed a very bad solder joint under one of the video RAM chips.

The remaining issues are lockups/sound glitches (Z80 problem?) and controller glitches. I noticed a particular component that triggers instability when I nudge it, so maybe I've found the problem.

[jeremysart]

atarian63, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:55 PM, said:

Interesting, I had all the systems and other than 32x I have had no problems at all. Yeah game gear sound was low but after many many years i did not think it was a big deal. quick cap replace and all is well.

Were mostly talking about quality control issues like misprints and what not. But let me hear anyone say game gear is bad.. It was one of the best hand helds ever!! Way ahead of its time.

Now it is pretty funny sitting next to a psp slim.

[Austin]

I wouldn't say it was ahead of its time, but I think Sega could have really stuck it out in the handheld wars with it if they released a thinner, smaller, power-efficient version compete with the GB pocket and the GBC.

Edited by Austin, Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:52 PM.

[shadow460]

jeremysart, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:19 PM, said:

atarian63, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:55 PM, said:

Interesting, I had all the systems and other than 32x I have had no problems at all. Yeah game gear sound was low but after many many years i did not think it was a big deal. quick cap replace and all is well.

Were mostly talking about quality control issues like misprints and what not. But let me hear anyone say game gear is bad.. It was one of the best hand helds ever!! Way ahead of its time.

Now it is pretty funny sitting next to a psp slim.

lol, you mean something like this

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[The_Laird]

jeremysart, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:19 PM, said:

atarian63, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:55 PM, said:

Interesting, I had all the systems and other than 32x I have had no problems at all. Yeah game gear sound was low but after many many years i did not think it was a big deal. quick cap replace and all is well.

Were mostly talking about quality control issues like misprints and what not. But let me hear anyone say game gear is bad.. It was one of the best hand helds ever!! Way ahead of its time.

Now it is pretty funny sitting next to a psp slim.

How was the Lamegear ahead of its time? It was just a Master System in a smaller case!!!

The Lynx came out over a year earlier and blew it away, now that was ahead of its time

[jeremysart]

The_Laird, on Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:30 AM, said:

jeremysart, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:19 PM, said:

atarian63, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:55 PM, said:

Interesting, I had all the systems and other than 32x I have had no problems at all. Yeah game gear sound was low but after many many years i did not think it was a big deal. quick cap replace and all is well.

Were mostly talking about quality control issues like misprints and what not. But let me hear anyone say game gear is bad.. It was one of the best hand helds ever!! Way ahead of its time.

Now it is pretty funny sitting next to a psp slim.

How was the Lamegear ahead of its time? It was just a Master System in a smaller case!!!

The Lynx came out over a year earlier and blew it away, now that was ahead of its time

I guess I wouldnt know, I never owned a Lynx. They are SO big though. The reason I say the Game Gear was ahead of its time was just because compared to its true competitor, the Game Boy, it really came out on top. (minus really awesome games like Super Mario Land, Tetris, Bubble Bobble, Donkey Kong Land etc.)

It took Nintendo up until a few years after the new millenium to create a hand-held with color and a backlit screen.

[The_Laird]

jeremysart, on Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:38 AM, said:

The_Laird, on Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:30 AM, said:

jeremysart, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:19 PM, said:

atarian63, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:55 PM, said:

Interesting, I had all the systems and other than 32x I have had no problems at all. Yeah game gear sound was low but after many many years i did not think it was a big deal. quick cap replace and all is well.

Were mostly talking about quality control issues like misprints and what not. But let me hear anyone say game gear is bad.. It was one of the best hand helds ever!! Way ahead of its time.

Now it is pretty funny sitting next to a psp slim.

How was the Lamegear ahead of its time? It was just a Master System in a smaller case!!!

The Lynx came out over a year earlier and blew it away, now that was ahead of its time

I guess I wouldnt know, I never owned a Lynx. They are SO big though. The reason I say the Game Gear was ahead of its time was just because compared to its true competitor, the Game Boy, it really came out on top. (minus really awesome games like Super Mario Land, Tetris, Bubble Bobble, Donkey Kong Land etc.)

It took Nintendo up until a few years after the new millenium to create a hand-held with color and a backlit screen.

Only the Lynx 1. The Lynx 2 was a bit thicker than a GG but shorter. The Lynx was the most advanced Handehld on the market for 13 years (only the GB Advance beat it and only just)

[DracIsBack]

the.golden.ax, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:36 AM, said:

I love Sega, but they were really just as bad at QC as they were at keeping their company alive.

AX

Considering they're still in business, that's probably not a good example.

[akator]

My experience is anecdotal, but that's what it is.

In 1992, my SMS controllers wore out from years of use. Not a quality control issue.

My brother's Genesis has to be replaced. I have the replacement and it works perfectly. I have 4 other Genesis consoles that all work perfectly.

My original, immaculate Game Gear was abducted by relatives. I didn't know what happened to it until a few years ago, and by that time it was trashed cosmetically. But it still works and is used at an in-laws home to entertain grandchildren. I have multiple Game Gears to replace it and fully understand the capacitor issues.

Nomad, still great.

My Saturn was purchased recently from Golden Ax, he cleaned and tested it. I works perfectly, although every time it is unplugged it looses the date and time. Not an issue.

My Dreamcasts all work perfectly. I only have multiples to make sure my huge investment in games isn't wasted.

I know that Sega had some issues with the Genesis, I remember my father bitching about how they had to deal with it. However, I never experienced anything except for the second-hand Genesis thing and the recent issues of Game Gears with bad caps.

I think the Sega quality control issue is blown out of proportion. I am willing to accept proof that my experiences are unusual and incorrect, but I would like evidence.

[Rev. Rob]

Koopa64, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:39 PM, said:

coyo5050, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:26 PM, said:

Reaperman, on Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:28 PM, said:

hell, in addition to just sounding like crap, many of the genesis systems weren't even compatible with all games. I've seen some really weird genesis compatibility issues. I kept buying copies of knuckles chaotix (32x) because I thought I kept getting bad ones. Turns out it was the genesis under the 32x that wouldn't play them. Both were genesis 2 units, and it wasn't a cleaning issue.

to include dreamcast, whole shipments of certain launch games didn't work. I went through 4 copies of airforce delta before I got one that worked.

My copy starts, then the graphics scramble and it locks up. Is this a known issue or something? I thought the cart must be bad since other carts worked fine on the 32x.

This is only from what I've heard, but some Model 2 Genesis consoles need some sort of "dongle" where the Sega CD plugs in if one is not present in order to play Knuckles' Chaotix. I don't even know what this "dongle" looks like but I've heard from at least a few reputable people that what I mentioned here is true.

I have one of these. I forget what the instruction manual called it (which I can't find right now), but I called Sega of America and they said it was to increase performance. There's nothing inside of the device other than contacts. It was apparently an attempt to get the FCC to approve the 32X. I've read that later 32X units didn't include this with the later units.

[vcsdream]

Best quality ever:

[Koopa64]

I just noticed this today:



Again with my last pic, what's wrong with the game in the middle? O_O