16 replies to this topic

[Herbarius]

Well, my mother did throw out a lot of old stuff and one of the items she considered dumping in the thrash was this 1979 chess system:

CHESS CHAMPION SUPER SYSTEM III

Of course I couldn't let her do that, so I took it. It works well, however it's just the main unit, without any of the peripherals like the printer or LCD chessboard you can see on that page. I also think it has a nice design and even if it is old, at least for a non-professional like me it's still a very challenging opponent (even on the default setting of 10 seconds (max. CPU "thinking" time), you can set it to anything from 0 seconds (i.e. immediate response) to 100 hours!).


So I wondered, what about you guys who collect a lot of game systems, are vintage Chess systems part of your collection or would you add them, if you come across them? Or is it completely out of your scope? Maybe because it's a board game, and not a video game?

Well, I'm looking forward to your responses.


Oh, I didn't really know where to put this, and I hesitated to put it here, because it's in the "Atari systems" category - however I think I've seen non-atari systems here before, and afterall this seemed to be the most appropiate place to me, but if it's wrong, please feel free to move the thread to a more fitting board.

Edited by Herbarius, Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:53 PM.

[BassGuitari]

I would totally pick this up if I found it in the wild. I didn't even know it existed until I read this!

From the looks of it, I'd categorize it under "handhelds." So, being that it's a handheld (according to my own loose definition), and chess is in fact a game, I see no reason it shouldn't be considered a handheld game. Just because the game originates from somewhere outside of the video world -I mean board games, card/casino games, athletic sports, etc.- doesn't mean an electronic version of it "doesn't count."

[Kurt_Woloch]

So... has the ROM been dumped?

[Herbarius]

Kurt_Woloch, on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:59 AM, said:

So... has the ROM been dumped?

Er... serious question?

Maybe someone did it in the past, but I surely did not. I don't have any equipment or knowledge to do that. Also it would mean disassembling the unit and taking the ROM out, and I won't bet it's socketed...

It seems to have been dumped by someone at some point, as I found that MESS has "preliminary" emulation of the system (you can't actually play it yet, even if you have the ROMs), and they also have CRC and SHA hashes of both banks.

I actually found both files online, but I checked against the checksums from the MESS site and they don't match.

What equipment do I need for this? I know someone who MIGHT have the necessary equipment, but I'd have to ask. Also he doesn't currently live at my town anymore, so meeting will be problematic... maybe over the holidays... but I can't promise anything, I don't even now if he has the necessary equipment and even if he has, we still would need some instructions.

Edited by Herbarius, Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:52 PM.

[Hornpipe2]

Wow, that's a really neat system!

I had a Fidelity "The Classic" from 1979 which could still whip me pretty bad even with its lowly 256-bytes of RAM. I got it at a thrift store for something like $5 and resold it on eBay at a profit for $15 : ) It was a nice system, pressure-sensitive squares and wood pieces.

That whole site is a good reference for those interested in collecting chess computers: http://www.ismenio.c..._computers.html
There's also a message board: http://users.boardna...uters/index.php

I wouldn't collect them, but if I did happen to run across another pressure-sensitive computer I'd probably pick it up as a nice addition to a game room. I still kind of feel that "man vs machine" magic when playing on a physical board that I don't get while playing on a computer screen.

[Herbarius]

Hornpipe2, on Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:15 PM, said:

but if I did happen to run across another pressure-sensitive computer I'd probably pick it up as a nice addition to a game room

As you can see the one I have isn't pressure-sensitive, you play on a regular board and enter the coordinates via the keypad. Of course you also have to move the pieces for the computer. If you had the LCD chessboard peripheral you wouldn't need that anymore, or at least you could check the LCD board to verify the positions and make sure you didn't make any errors moving the pieces...

Hornpipe2, on Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:15 PM, said:

I still kind of feel that "man vs machine" magic when playing on a physical board that I don't get while playing on a computer screen.

Yes, I totally understand what you mean, that's why I usually setup a board even when I played on the PC with a program that shows a graphical image of the board... Well, not always, for a quick game I'd just play away, but for the real feeling I'd use the real board. The same would propably apply even if I had the LCD board - altohugh if offered the choice between both peripherals, I'd definitely choose the printer.

Edited by Herbarius, Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:28 PM.

[keilbaca]

Actually I was just gonna ask, how can you play without the LCD? You just answered my question.

You should face that off with the Atari 2600 Video Chess. ^_^

Where can I get one of those? I think that would be amazing to have, something that just spits out numbers.

I have a couple Excalibur chess boards, one that has an lcd that tells me the moves, one that just shows LED lights at each row/column to what piece.

Both have a built in playable board, but its just not the same. I'd love to use one of my amazing tables with a computer like what you have, that just spits out the chess notation.

Edited by keilbaca, Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:46 PM.

[Herbarius]

keilbaca, on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:42 PM, said:

You should face that off with the Atari 2600 Video Chess. ^_^

Well, I did, and the outcome was quite strange...

I started it with these settings (using Stella as an Emulator, as I don't own Video Chess):

Atari Video Chess playing WHITE on mode 1 (<=15 seconds per move as per manual)
Super System III playing BLACK on 10 seconds (default setting)


I actually expected the Super System to win, even though it had the shorter computation time, because it has much more RAM.
However, to my surprise the game went very balanced, and both sides ended up having only the king, one rook and a couple of pawns left and then engaged in that typical "dance". However I continued the game and eventually, in the 66th turn, the unexpected happened:


Note the move the computer is trying to do (see display)! To be sure I've verified the pieces' positions (there's a function to do that, in case you mess up the board), and they match up with the actual pieces - and the positions in Stella as well. I even forced the computer to take back the move and compute it again, but it turned out the same. I don't understand it. The computer never did an illegal move before when I played it, or in that game vs Stella.

I can post the transcript of the whole game tomorrow, I don't feel like typing it all now.

I'll maybe do another match of Super System III vs. Video Chess, setting the Super System to 15 seconds that time to see how it performs if given the same amount of time as Video Chess.

Edited by Herbarius, Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:15 PM.

[Herbarius]

So, finally, as promised, the whole game, as an animated GIF and in PGN notation. White player is Atari Video Chess, Black player is the Chess Champion Super System III.

I decided to count the final illegal move of the Super System III (King from G7 to G8) as resigning, so Atari Video Chess won.

(click thumbnail to see animation)

Quote

[Event "Stella vs. Chess Champion"]
[Site "here "]
[Date "2009.11.26"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Atari VCS "Video Chess" (emulated)"]
[Black "Chess Champion Super System III"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteELO "Mode 1"]
[BlackELO "10 sec."]

%Created by Caissa's Web PGN Editor
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bf4 Bf5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. e3 e6 6. Be2 Bd6 7. Bb5 Bxf4 8.
Bxc6+ bxc6 9. exf4 O-O 10. O-O Qd6 11. Ne5 Rab8 12. Nd3 Bxd3 13. Qxd3 Qxf4
14. Rfb1 Ne4 15. Nxe4 dxe4 16. Qe3 Qxe3 17. fxe3 f5 18. Kf2 f4 19. c4 fxe3+
20. Kxe3 Rb4 21. b3 a5 22. Kxe4 a4 23. bxa4 Rxc4 24. a5 c5 25. Ke5 cxd4 26.
Kxe6 d3 27. Kd5 Rc2 28. Rg1 Rf5+ 29. Kd4 Rxa5 30. a4 d2 31. Kd3 Rc1 32. Rgxc1
dxc1=Q 33. Rxc1 c6 34. Rxc6 Rxa4 35. Rc3 g5 36. Rc8+ Kg7 37. Rc7+ Kg8 38. Rc3
g4 39. Rc8+ Kf7 40. Rc7+ Kg8 41. Rc3 h5 42. Ke3 h4 43. Rc8+ Kg7 44. Rc7+ Kg8
45. Rc3 g3 46. Rc8+ Kg7 47. Rc7+ Kg6 48. Rc6+ Kg5 49. Rc5+ Kf6 50. Rc6+ Kg7
51. Rc7+ Kg8 52. Rc8+ Kf7 53. Rc7+ Kf8 54. hxg3 hxg3 55. Rc3 Rg4 56. Rc7 Rb4
57. Rc3 Rg4 58. Rc7 Rg5 59. Kf4 Rg6 60. Rc3 Re6 61. Kf5 Rd6 62. Kf4 Re6 63.
Rd3 Kg8 64. Rxg3+ Kf7 65. Rh3 Kg7 66. Rg3+ 1-0

You may notice some moves they make are just plain stupid, especially towards the end of the game.

I used the superb tools at this site to create both the transcript and the animation: Caissa's Web Online Chess Tools.

If there's any interest I will do other matchups, using different settings...

Edited by Herbarius, Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:58 PM.

[thegoldenband]

All things considered, that's a surprisingly plausible game considering the vintage and limitations of the CPUs involved! The opening is like some sort of ass-backwards Italian Game/Giuoco Piano. The final position should be a draw, despite White's extra pawn, but I'm not sure whether one side or the other might've missed a win earlier on...

Edited by thegoldenband, Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:27 PM.

[BDW]

Herbarius, on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:39 PM, said:

So, finally, as promised, the whole game, as an animated GIF and in PGN notation. White player is Atari Video Chess, Black player is the Chess Champion Super System III.

I decided to count the final illegal move of the Super System III (King from G7 to G8) as resigning, so Atari Video Chess won.

diagram.gif(click thumbnail to see animation)

Quote

[Event "Stella vs. Chess Champion"]
[Site "here "]
[Date "2009.11.26"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Atari VCS "Video Chess" (emulated)"]
[Black "Chess Champion Super System III"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteELO "Mode 1"]
[BlackELO "10 sec."]

%Created by Caissa's Web PGN Editor
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bf4 Bf5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. e3 e6 6. Be2 Bd6 7. Bb5 Bxf4 8.
Bxc6+ bxc6 9. exf4 O-O 10. O-O Qd6 11. Ne5 Rab8 12. Nd3 Bxd3 13. Qxd3 Qxf4
14. Rfb1 Ne4 15. Nxe4 dxe4 16. Qe3 Qxe3 17. fxe3 f5 18. Kf2 f4 19. c4 fxe3+
20. Kxe3 Rb4 21. b3 a5 22. Kxe4 a4 23. bxa4 Rxc4 24. a5 c5 25. Ke5 cxd4 26.
Kxe6 d3 27. Kd5 Rc2 28. Rg1 Rf5+ 29. Kd4 Rxa5 30. a4 d2 31. Kd3 Rc1 32. Rgxc1
dxc1=Q 33. Rxc1 c6 34. Rxc6 Rxa4 35. Rc3 g5 36. Rc8+ Kg7 37. Rc7+ Kg8 38. Rc3
g4 39. Rc8+ Kf7 40. Rc7+ Kg8 41. Rc3 h5 42. Ke3 h4 43. Rc8+ Kg7 44. Rc7+ Kg8
45. Rc3 g3 46. Rc8+ Kg7 47. Rc7+ Kg6 48. Rc6+ Kg5 49. Rc5+ Kf6 50. Rc6+ Kg7
51. Rc7+ Kg8 52. Rc8+ Kf7 53. Rc7+ Kf8 54. hxg3 hxg3 55. Rc3 Rg4 56. Rc7 Rb4
57. Rc3 Rg4 58. Rc7 Rg5 59. Kf4 Rg6 60. Rc3 Re6 61. Kf5 Rd6 62. Kf4 Re6 63.
Rd3 Kg8 64. Rxg3+ Kf7 65. Rh3 Kg7 66. Rg3+ 1-0

You may notice some moves they make are just plain stupid, especially towards the end of the game.

I used the superb tools at this site to create both the transcript and the animation: Caissa's Web Online Chess Tools.

If there's any interest I will do other matchups, using different settings...

Thanks for posting, very interesting to watch

[davyK]

I like chess computers. I have 2 and I also have a dedicated backgammon computer. They are all 80s style jobs - built into a board.I just like the feel of playing on a real board.

I also have a Star Chess console - I haven't booted that up in years - I don't recall it having a CPU opponent though - 2 player only.

Edited by davyK, Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:36 PM.

[OldAtarian]

I always wanted a Fidelity Chess Phantom but could never afford it.

[OldAtarian]

Herbarius, on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:39 PM, said:

So, finally, as promised, the whole game, as an animated GIF and in PGN notation. White player is Atari Video Chess, Black player is the Chess Champion Super System III.

I decided to count the final illegal move of the Super System III (King from G7 to G8) as resigning, so Atari Video Chess won.

diagram.gif(click thumbnail to see animation)

Quote

[Event "Stella vs. Chess Champion"]
[Site "here "]
[Date "2009.11.26"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Atari VCS "Video Chess" (emulated)"]
[Black "Chess Champion Super System III"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteELO "Mode 1"]
[BlackELO "10 sec."]

%Created by Caissa's Web PGN Editor
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bf4 Bf5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. e3 e6 6. Be2 Bd6 7. Bb5 Bxf4 8.
Bxc6+ bxc6 9. exf4 O-O 10. O-O Qd6 11. Ne5 Rab8 12. Nd3 Bxd3 13. Qxd3 Qxf4
14. Rfb1 Ne4 15. Nxe4 dxe4 16. Qe3 Qxe3 17. fxe3 f5 18. Kf2 f4 19. c4 fxe3+
20. Kxe3 Rb4 21. b3 a5 22. Kxe4 a4 23. bxa4 Rxc4 24. a5 c5 25. Ke5 cxd4 26.
Kxe6 d3 27. Kd5 Rc2 28. Rg1 Rf5+ 29. Kd4 Rxa5 30. a4 d2 31. Kd3 Rc1 32. Rgxc1
dxc1=Q 33. Rxc1 c6 34. Rxc6 Rxa4 35. Rc3 g5 36. Rc8+ Kg7 37. Rc7+ Kg8 38. Rc3
g4 39. Rc8+ Kf7 40. Rc7+ Kg8 41. Rc3 h5 42. Ke3 h4 43. Rc8+ Kg7 44. Rc7+ Kg8
45. Rc3 g3 46. Rc8+ Kg7 47. Rc7+ Kg6 48. Rc6+ Kg5 49. Rc5+ Kf6 50. Rc6+ Kg7
51. Rc7+ Kg8 52. Rc8+ Kf7 53. Rc7+ Kf8 54. hxg3 hxg3 55. Rc3 Rg4 56. Rc7 Rb4
57. Rc3 Rg4 58. Rc7 Rg5 59. Kf4 Rg6 60. Rc3 Re6 61. Kf5 Rd6 62. Kf4 Re6 63.
Rd3 Kg8 64. Rxg3+ Kf7 65. Rh3 Kg7 66. Rg3+ 1-0

You may notice some moves they make are just plain stupid, especially towards the end of the game.

I used the superb tools at this site to create both the transcript and the animation: Caissa's Web Online Chess Tools.

If there's any interest I will do other matchups, using different settings...

Can video chess capture en passant? I seem to remember always getting the illegal move raspberry every time I ever tried it.

Edited by OldAtarian, Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:37 PM.

[thegoldenband]

This is a tiny bit OT, but I spent some time playing against the Intellivision chess cartridge earlier this year, beating the program on levels 1 through 4 (of 6) with little difficulty.

I revived that project today, beating Level 5 with the White pieces after six hours of play (!). The game and an animated GIF (click to start) are attached below. Like almost every other game I've played against the Inty, it opened with the 3...exf4?! variation of the Vienna game, but the bad opening notwithstanding, the Inty did well and played me tough until about move 25.

Of course, I didn't sit around when the Inty was thinking! I only used 20 minutes on the clock, so almost all the time consumption was the computer's; sometimes it would think for ages in straightforward positions, especially towards the end when the loss was certain. I did also permit myself the luxury of one takeback -- at move 27, I made a horrendous blunder and realized it within a second of making the move -- which mars the victory somewhat, but so it goes.

Sometime in the next few weeks I'll take on level 6 (no takebacks!), and will probably take the Black pieces as well. I haven't consciously been adopting "anti-computer" tactics -- closed openings, etc. -- but might want to start doing so after today's performance...

[Date "2010.10.10"]
[White "thegoldenband"]
[Black "Intellivision Chess, Level 5"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. f4 exf4 4. e5 Ng8 5. Nf3 d5 6. d4 g5 7. h4 gxh4 8. Bxf4 Be7 9. Bd3 Nc6 10. Qe2 Bg4 11. O-O-O Nxd4 12. Bb5+ Nxb5 13. Qxb5+ c6 14. Qxb7 Qc8 15. Qxc8+ Rxc8 16. Rd2 h3 17. Ng5 Bxg5 18. Bxg5 hxg2 19. Rg1 Bh3 20. Rd3 Bf5 21. Rg3 d4 22. Ne2 h6 23. Nxd4 hxg5 24. Nxf5 Rd8 25. Nd6+ Kf8 26. Rxg5 f6 27. R5xg2 fxe5 28. Ne4 Nh6 29. Rg6 Rd4 30. Nc5 Rh4 31. Rxc6 Rh7 32. Rc8+ Ke7 33. Rc7+ Kd6 34. Rxh7 Kxc5 35. Rxa7 e4 36. a4 e3 37. b3 e2 38. Re7 e1=Q 39. Rgxe1 Rh3 40. Kb2 Ng4 41. R7e6 Rh2 42. a5 Nh6 43. R1e5+ Kd4 44. a6 Rg2 45. Ra5 Rg8 46. Rxh6 Ke4 47. a7 Ra8 48. Rb6 Kd4 49. Rb8 Rxa7 50. Rxa7 Ke5 51. Ra4 Ke6 52. Ra5 Ke7 53. Ra6 Kd7 54. Rb7+ Kc8 55. Raa7 Kd8 56. Ra8# 1-0

Edited by thegoldenband, Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:53 PM.

[psquare75]

That was a good watch!

[yuppicide]

I don't like chess, but that is one sexy system!!!

I bought a chess system at the flea market for $10 bucks and sold it on eBay for $180!

I saw the chess system for $20, I kind of wanted it for myself. It was one that automatically moves the pieces. They don't make it anymore. So, I started to walk away and he's like come on $15 bucks and I said eh naaaah and started to walk, he says come on take a look.. you can open it up.. and I said eh naaaah I'm not sure, and he said $10 bucks and I said sold.

It had box, and I think manual too. It was missing one piece, the company had extras and sent me the piece.

I had an idea it's worth more than what I paid and worth more than the $20 he was asking, but I had no idea I'd get that much for it.