106 replies to this topic

[Shawn Sr.]

The_Laird, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:12 PM, said:

I noticed that post was edited.

I didn't miss the point at all. He was working on a game a bit similar to Gorf for the 7800 but it was much more like Demon Attck or Phoenix.

What post was edited?

[Chickybaby]

Firstly, I respect and admire the work PMP has done for the community second I do respect Gorf's right to have an opinion and I respect the work he has done on games himself and finally what Curt has contributed to this community is a great deal as well and I know I'm not alone in those thoughts.
I wish people could just respectfully agree to disagree and just respect work people are doing because something and a very darn good quality something in all the aboves cases imo is very much enjoyed by everyone who purchases it or downs the ROM. Not everyone has every system and not everyone likes every system so I don't see what any of these problems are about.
If someone does or doesn't edit a post at this point just doesn't matter and I wish everyone could get back to the topic on hand please.

[CPUWIZ]

Chickybaby, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:31 PM, said:

Firstly, I respect and admire the work PMP has done for the community second I do respect Gorf's right to have an opinion and I respect the work he has done on games himself and finally what Curt has contributed to this community is a great deal as well and I know I'm not alone in those thoughts.
I wish people could just respectfully agree to disagree and just respect work people are doing because something and a very darn good quality something in all the aboves cases imo is very much enjoyed by everyone who purchases it or downs the ROM. Not everyone has every system and not everyone likes every system so I don't see what any of these problems are about.

Welcome to the internet. LOL

There are always people like this:

Attached Thumbnails

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[The_Laird]

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[Chickybaby]

Yup, And they take all different shapes and screen names. Good 'Ol Internet.

[CPUWIZ]

Chickybaby, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:40 PM, said:

Yup, And they take all different shapes and screen names.

I disagree.

Now back on topic, I'd love a big poster of the posted image of the Maria chip.

[carmel_andrews]

Please excuse me if this is a dumb question (speaking as a non techie) but what is the difference between GDS and VHDL (re the GTIA chip thread on A8 forum) and which one is the new standard (or have they both been replaced) and does one standard have any advantage over the other

Did Atari use one standard or both of them

[jaybird3rd]

It sounds almost like Gorf is burned out on the classic gaming hobby. It happens to the best of us sometimes, especially if we expect--consciously or unconsciously--that praise or recognition from others will be the reward and incentive for our work. As I said in my post on the homebrew thread (which I linked to earlier), homebrew developers should do what they love and should do it because they love it, not because other people will like it or give them all kinds of kudos for it, and this is true whether you're doing original games or ports or whatever else you like. Positive feedback is a perfectly legitimate thing to want, and it can be depressing if it isn't forthcoming after you've worked hard on perfecting your creation, but it should always be a secondary concern.

Personally, I think that discoveries and works of preservation like Curt's make this an especially exciting time to be involved in classic consoles, as a player or as a developer. To use a gardening analogy, if modern consoles are annuals, flowering for a time and then dying off at the end of a single season, then classic consoles like the 2600 and 7800 are perennials, growing and blossoming continuously from one season to the next. I'm grateful for all of the historians, engineers, developers, artists, and enthusiastic players who provide the "fertilizer" that makes this kind of growth possible.

[Stephen]

The_Laird, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:52 PM, said:

He has only released it for the Jag CD, thats it

And a damn fine port it is, says the owner of #29!

Although I must admit I am very surprised by Gorf's attitude about this discovery (MARIA). It's preservation for preservation's sake. Nobody is trying to recreate these old consoles and pretend it's the early 80s again. We know that time has passed. I will never do anything with an ENIAC, but I sure am glad the design specs are still out there for it. It would be a terrible shame if this information was lost.

Stephen Anderson

[Stephen]

carmel_andrews, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:47 PM, said:

Please excuse me if this is a dumb question (speaking as a non techie) but what is the difference between GDS and VHDL (re the GTIA chip thread on A8 forum) and which one is the new standard (or have they both been replaced) and does one standard have any advantage over the other

Did Atari use one standard or both of them

Carmel, I believe they are "programming" languages (or more accurately, markup languages). Both will describe an integrated circuit. GDS is definitely the older format.

***EDIT to include a link***
Some info

Stephen Anderson

Edited by Stephen, Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:14 PM.

[carmel_andrews]

So essentially, ways of displaying (graphically) an IC (i.e not the plastic it's housed in but the slice of silicon contained within)

Also wondering if, using modern tools etc, could you design more features, capabilities into the same space as Maria (without bumping up the end unit price that much)

[gdement]

I don't see the point in second guessing what other programmers spend their time with. Different people have different projects that interest them.
It takes a huge amount of persistence and determination to finish a 7800 game. Look at all the people who have worked on 7800 projects, and compare that with the number who have actually shipped a complete game.

Whatever the programmer most feels like working on, is what they should be doing.

Curt Vendel, on Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:34 PM, said:

This is the 1702B. I have another tape out with the 1702C, I think I may have found the PAL MARIA as well, but I need to finish 2 other Corporate Research chip recovers first.

Are any differences known between B and C? I've been curious if there's any errata in B or some other differences in how those revisions behave.

I would assume that PAL is based on C.

[Gorf]

Shawn Sr., on Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:43 PM, said:

Gorf, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:21 PM, said:

how many more times are we going to port the same old classics? It would be
nice to see some updated graphics and sound but the same thing over and over? Familiarity
breeds content I guess...maybe that's my problem.

How many different consoles have you wrote the game Gorf (or a clone with the same game mechanics) for?

What does it take? Anyway......I wrote it for the Jaguar. As for CPUWIZ's comment,
it was never intended for release but for proof of concept. Unfortunately some of
the limitations of the 7800 prevent it from ever being fully realized without the
addition of Maria usable RAM on the cart. No emulator I know of handles this,
therefore it is impractical.


Of course you all further miss the point. I never said it's not fun or even something
some one should or should not do. I just have to wonder why you would refab an old die
that at best you might break even on or at worst only use for replacments chips(not a
bad thing btw). No one like classic games as much as I do, but if you have one already
good on one system, why does it need to be on every system? It's like I just stepped on
the toes of some sacred cow or something...sheesh!

PacManPlus is doing a fantastic job of doing those classic updates and I would never
discourage him. I do not however see a truly practical application for a MARIA chip
outside of recreating another run of 7800's. I think Curt could better spend his time
an talent on something like a MARIA that can be useful and practical in today's
current market.

Downix was looking to re-write the Jag II nets from the ground up, yet he realized
that such a time consumer would be better spent allowing the Jag II chips be practical
for todays abilities and not just a one to one remake. I understand that HE said he
could possibly get the Jag II chipset to run at upto 800 mhz or higher. He also said
that the RISC core could be re-written to COMPETE with today's imbedded cores. A 4 mhz
MARIA is a great trick to refab no doubt but to what end besides a rehash of the console
or a replacement chip?


I feel that there are better things all this talent can be working on. We need new
ideas(if that is even possible) and that is all. If you want to take a constuctive
opinion and make a holy war out of it, fine, but that was not my intention.

However, it's your time and your effort. Do as you see fit with it. I simply don't
see it.

Oh and Jybird, you are right...I am rather burnt out on coding classics.

Edited by Gorf, Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:39 PM.

[Shawn Sr.]

np

[Gorf]

Chickybaby, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:31 PM, said:

Firstly, I respect and admire the work PMP has done for the community second I do respect Gorf's right to have an opinion and I respect the work he has done on games himself and finally what Curt has contributed to this community is a great deal as well and I know I'm not alone in those thoughts.

I appreciate your respect for my opinion...shame others can't be that easy going.

Chickybaby, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:31 PM, said:

I wish people could just respectfully agree to disagree and just respect work people are doing

God forbid!

Chickybaby, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:31 PM, said:

If someone does or doesn't edit a post at this point just doesn't matter and I wish everyone could get back to the topic on hand please.

I have been on topic...the problem is I'm not in agreement with some participating in this topic(Also God forbid.. )

[Gorf]

Shawn Sr., on Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:44 PM, said:

gay_posts.PNG

Yup, there's an intellegent rebutle. Not to mention useful and on topic as well...

[Gorf]

Stephen, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:12 PM, said:

carmel_andrews, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:47 PM, said:

Please excuse me if this is a dumb question (speaking as a non techie) but what is the difference between GDS and VHDL (re the GTIA chip thread on A8 forum) and which one is the new standard (or have they both been replaced) and does one standard have any advantage over the other

Did Atari use one standard or both of them

Carmel, I believe they are "programming" languages (or more accurately, markup languages). Both will describe an integrated circuit. GDS is definitely the older format.

***EDIT to include a link***
Some info

Stephen Anderson

Though they are like a programming language, the biggest mistake to make is approching them as such.
Silicon does not handle if then like structures in the same manner C++ would and you have to keep
in mind always that you are eventually going to try to pop this onto a bunch of gates. I thought
VHDL would be a piece of cake coming at it from a software coding point of view but it turns out
you will get yourself in a lot of trouble going that route. You really need to re-think the way
you think about coding using such languages. I wound up confusing the crap out of myself and have
not touched my Spartan3E board in years as a result. Maybe someday I'll sit down and try again.

[Shawn Sr.]

Gorf, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:46 PM, said:

Shawn Sr., on Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:44 PM, said:

gay_posts.PNG

Yup, there's an intellegent rebutle. Not to mention useful and on topic as well...

Rebutle to who or what? The pic is there to reflect how bad this thread as gone down the shitter compaired to how uplifting it started out with the OP.

[Gorf]

Shawn Sr., on Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:50 PM, said:

Gorf, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:46 PM, said:

Shawn Sr., on Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:44 PM, said:

gay_posts.PNG

Yup, there's an intellegent rebutle. Not to mention useful and on topic as well...

Rebutle to who or what? The pic is there to reflect how bad this thread as gone down the shitter compaired to how uplifting it started out with the OP.

Shitter? I dare disagree with someone's assesment..God should strike me dead now.

Like I said....real usefull to the topic.....

Edited by Gorf, Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:58 PM.

[Albert]

Gorf: Seriously man, we get it, you think what Curt is doing is a waste of time and money and you feel he could spend his obvious talents on more worthwhile endeavors. You've said that several times in this thread already, so please drop it and let Curt and others discuss Curt's project in a positive manner without your raining on his parade.

Shawn: WTF, if you don't like what Gorf is saying then at least try and debate him in a civilized manner. Otherwise don't post in the thread. Posting a "Congratulations on your gay posts" image drags the whole thread down another notch.

For the second time in two days, I will say this: I need to install a "Ban Member From Thread" modification.

..Al

[Gorf]

Albert, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:59 PM, said:

Gorf: Seriously man, we get it, you think what Curt is doing is a waste of time and money and you feel he could spend his obvious talents on more worthwhile endeavors. You've said that several times in this thread already, so please drop it and let Curt and others discuss Curt's project in a positive manner without your raining on his parade.

I'm glad you get it but obviously you dont..I was not raining on Curt's parade. I was asking and wondering what the point was.
Sorry Im not the lemming some people would wish me to be. Variety is the spice of life. Or at least it used to be.

Curt...my appologies for asking what I thought was an honest question and quite frankly to the point and on topic.
I'll never disagree with you again since it seems no one around here can handle it.

[jaybird3rd]

Gorf, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:07 PM, said:

I was asking and wondering what the point was.

You could have been more diplomatic about it. Curt posts to report a genuine achievement, and you respond by saying, in effect, "That's great, but what's the point? Shouldn't you be doing something else?" How is that not raining on his parade?

If you're burned out on classic games and don't see the point anymore, that's your issue, but there's no need to spread the negativity to those of us who haven't lost our enthusiasm for them. Instead, I recommend taking a break from the "scene" for a while to recharge your batteries, which is something we all need sometimes.

[Chickybaby]

I'm about to lock the thread if Albert doesn't if this isn't dropped.

[Albert]

Gorf, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:07 PM, said:

I'm glad you get it but obviously you dont..I was not raining on Curt's parade. I was asking and wondering what the point was.
Sorry Im not the lemming some people would wish me to be. Variety is the spice of life. Or at least it used to be.

Curt...my appologies for asking what I thought was an honest question and quite frankly to the point and on topic.
I'll never disagree with you again since it seems no one around here can handle it.

Curt answered your question early in the thread, although I don't think you liked his answer. If you want to wonder what's the point of doing work like this in a more general sense, please start another thread.

..Al

[Gorf]

Albert, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:18 PM, said:

Gorf, on Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:07 PM, said:

I'm glad you get it but obviously you dont..I was not raining on Curt's parade. I was asking and wondering what the point was.
Sorry Im not the lemming some people would wish me to be. Variety is the spice of life. Or at least it used to be.

Curt...my appologies for asking what I thought was an honest question and quite frankly to the point and on topic.
I'll never disagree with you again since it seems no one around here can handle it.

Curt answered your question early in the thread, although I don't think you liked his answer. If you want to wonder what's the point of doing work like this in a more general sense, please start another thread.

..Al

My appologies.